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Thread: Oddball engines and prototypes

  1. #916
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjbw View Post
    This was built in 1948 by Wooler, in West London.
    The Wooler came up early on in this thread, I reckon it was a bit complicated and had too many linkages etc. to go wrong, but those were the days when a lot of things were being tried and they were all very interesting.
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  2. #917
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDun View Post
    The Wooler came up early on in this thread, I reckon it was a bit complicated and had too many linkages etc. to go wrong, but those were the days when a lot of things were being tried and they were all very interesting.
    Just had a quick scan of first 13 pages. Some amazing stuff there, including Neander which I also posted recently!

    No need for me to post TS3 or Napier Deltic

  3. #918
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    There was talk of it in a book I read with hopes of 40-50 hp at some astonishingly high revs in 125 form.
    I posted something about it on ESE but no one could add much or had heard of it..
    I think he swallowed a whole heap of lottery development funds for his project world beater.........
    I'd love to see the internals, or even drawings. IIRC it was to feature sleeve valves, as used on some radial aero engines, and on some Bar and Stroud motorcycle engines.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #919
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjbw View Post
    No need for me to post TS3 or Napier Deltic
    Well, I must say that the Napier Deltic and the Commer TS3 were amongst the most successful, but we must admit they owed their existence to some original German designs (Deltic owes it's existence to the Junkers Jumo designed for E-Boats and the TS3 to Sultzer).

    I used to sneak into the local scrapyard on the way home from school most days (the teachers etc would have frowned on me for being so "common") where there were two Bristol Hercules engines from a crashed Wellington bomber lying on the heap just begging to be taken away and preserved. They were amongst a tangled pile of broken aircraft, this particular one had crashed during WW2 into a cliff face just a few miles away and had hung there for well over 10 years before being removed.
    I was always trying to find a way of getting them home but I was only 14 or 15 at the time so didn't ever stand much chance of that! - pity to see them going to the pot, but that's how it was I guess.
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  5. #920
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDun View Post
    Well, I must say that the Napier Deltic and the Commer TS3 were amongst the most successful, but we must admit they owed their existence to some original German designs (Deltic owes it's existence to the Junkers Jumo designed for E-Boats and the TS3 to Sultzer).

    I used to sneak into the local scrapyard on the way home from school most days (the teachers etc would have frowned on me for being so "common") where there were two Bristol Hercules engines from a crashed Wellington bomber lying on the heap just begging to be taken away and preserved. They were amongst a tangled pile of broken aircraft, this particular one had crashed during WW2 into a cliff face a few miles away and had hung there for well over 10 years before being removed.
    I was always trying to find a way of getting them home but I was only 14 or 15 at the time so didn't ever stand much chance of that! - pity to see them going to the pot, but that's how it was I guess.
    Well there's a coincidence, the sleeve valve photo on my previous message is a Bristol Hercules two row 14 cylinder radial engine, which is on display at Brooklands Museum!

  6. #921
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    "jj2s x4"

    Here's another X4, this one is the JJ2S X4 500, under development in Poland.

    It features an inverted piston with ports which give it functionality similar to a sleeve valve. I think this configuration was first suggested by Draper, and Flettner has tried something similar.

    The JJ2S pistons are also stepped, to provide primary compression. Drawings and animation showing the operating sequence are here:

    http://jjsdesign.net/jj2s/zasadadzialania.html

    Some more info here:

    http://www.jjsdesign.net/jj2sx4500/jj2sx4500.html

    Some of the drawings show a single cylinder engine with conventional crankshaft, however, the X4 has different arrangement "Both pistons, each mutually opposite pair of cylinders are mounted at the ends of a double yoke. The two double yokes, arranged mutually at right angles, extend over a common, but a double eccentric, which is mounted on a single crank pin of the crankshaft normal. Stroke journal is only half of the piston stroke, which the other half takes over and performs eccentric. With a small radius crank crankshaft becomes very compact and rigid. It should be emphasized that the pair of eccentric strength compensates for one pair of cylinders in relation to a pair of second, and as a consequence, decreases with increasing rotation of the crank pin load. There is therefore a, the engine is particularly suitable for operation at very high speeds"

    I didn't see any updates during last 3 years! I hope they didn't run into problems.
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  7. #922
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    http://www.jjsdesign.net/forum/viewt...3e09f938dbfc64

    Here are more info about 1cyl version, there are videos and other stuff. There is no progress about 500 because there is no money to develop this further right now...

  8. #923
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muciek View Post
    http://www.jjsdesign.net/forum/viewt...3e09f938dbfc64

    Here are more info about 1cyl version, there are videos and other stuff. There is no progress about 500 because there is no money to develop this further right now...
    Thanks Muciek, I was looking for the photos of machined piston and other parts, and found some of them again with link on that page:

    http://jjsdesign.pl/jj2swg125/index.html

  9. #924
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjbw View Post
    Here's another X4, this one is the JJ2S X4 500, developed in Poland.

    It features an inverted piston with ports which give it functionality similar to a sleeve valve. I think this configuration was first suggested by Draper, and Flettner has tried something similar.

    I didn't see any updates during last 3 years! I hope they didn't run into problems.
    An amazing piece of machinery, quite complicated and a little bulky (in a funny sort of way). Still haven't studied it enough to get my head around the crank setup but at a glance it seems to have similarities to the "PAUT ENGINE" (which I brought up way back) - just about the best animation I've seen to date - if nothing else!
    They say a picture is worth a thousand words, I say a good animation is worth a thousand pictures.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqJchMWiqoE
    Strokers Galore!

  10. #925
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDun View Post
    They say a picture is worth a thousand words, I say a good animation is worth a thousand pictures. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqJchMWiqoE
    I'd say at 24 frames per second that would be a rather short animation.
    Joking apart, it's an interesting video.
    Nice to see how those 180° crank throws serve a 4x90° hypocycloid engine (sort of; each 90° angle is between a pumping cylinder and a working cylinder).
    I wonder how long before Flettner builds a 90° V-twin along these lines.

  11. #926
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    I'd say at 24 frames per second that would be a rather short animation.
    Joking apart, it's an interesting video.
    Nice to see how those 180° crank throws serve a 4x90° hypocycloid engine (sort of; each 90° angle is between a pumping cylinder and a working cylinder).
    I wonder how long before Flettner builds a V-twin along these lines.
    I'm wondering why they didn't build an epicyclic reduction right at the end of the crank.

    Maybe the revs aren't that high anyway. Maybe the end use doesn't warrant it....
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  12. #927
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    I wonder how long before Flettner builds a 90° V-twin along these lines.
    Yes, I'd say a V2 would be a more suitable arrangement for a bike, and if anyone here is going to do that in this country it'll be Neil!
    Of course I would do it if I had the time, - but thinking about it takes up much precious time, so that puts me out!
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  13. #928
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjbw View Post
    Here's a V4 engine. It has 1 crankshaft, two crankpins, 4 conrods, but only 1 carb. This is on display at the Sammy Miller museum in England.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grumph View Post
    I've got a writeup on that from Motor Cycling, Jan, 1963 that i've been threatening to send to husa as it's too big for me to scan. Has cutaways and crank pics too. Not a converted RG500 - but clever given what he had to work with...Builder was B W J Hindes AMI Mech E complete with 'tach and pipe.
    There's another Brit 2 stroke four i must hunt out and send both over to Husa.
    The second four is also supercharged like this one...
    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    The Villiers 4 I vaguely remember from somewhere.........
    Send it or a photocopy ya chicken.
    Here is what Grumph sent me.
    Apologies I was in a bit of a hurry to glue it together, as I only have a A4 scanner. I might tidy it up later
    or find a A3 scanner, The original is a double A3 spread.
    click on the attachment 3 times to supersize it.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  14. #929
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    Here is what Grumph sent me.
    Husa / Grumph, That's a pretty good article (and drawings), pity the British industry was almost on the way out then - that could well have been the start of something new. The fact that it was a gradual sort of development using available parts and not an out and out attempt to build a world beater would have stood it in great stead.
    Strokers Galore!

  15. #930
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDun View Post
    Husa / Grumph, That's a pretty good article (and drawings), pity the British industry was almost on the way out then - that could well have been the start of something new. The fact that it was a gradual sort of development using available parts and not an out and out attempt to build a world beater would have stood it in great stead.
    Well Will, here is some more.
    Also courtesy of Grumph.

    Last one I never knew the 4T viliers had a piston ring centre lab seal........
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

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