Yamaha MT-07?

**pritch** · 17th January 2015, 08:39

Originally Posted by cfxjason

I talked to yamaha and it just has a larger throttle stop so it only givs u half so they said to make it non lams the just grind down the throttle stop :-)

Bollocks!!

**Mike.Gayner** · 17th January 2015, 09:33

Trying to find out more about this bike, but it's bloody hard. As best I can tell the only differences between the restricted and the restricted and unrestricted versions are a 2mm bore reduction and a mechanical throttle stop. Here's the difference in throttle stops between the restricted and unrestricted versions:

http://imgur.com/a/ohX42

Nothing a grinder couldn't solve in a few seconds.

edit: Actually it looks like there are ECU differences. Some good info here:
http://www.motorcycle-talk.net/forum...d-mt-07-a.html

**James Deuce** · 17th January 2015, 12:20

The version we get is built specifically for the Australian and NZ markets. To remove the restrictions and match the U.S. and Euro version requires a new engine and ECU. If you read Yamaha NZ's marketing bumpf on their web page they point out the LAMS MT07 is specific to the NZ and Aus markets. It certainly would be pointless and expensive to remedy. Therefore the MT07 is fundamentally crippled and its primary purpose is to get you to buy a bigger and "better" Yamaha when you get a "real" license.

I think the way the LAMS MT07 has been implemented is as cynical a dick move as the LAMS Street Cripple. Suzuki got it right with the GSX650FU. That is an honest attempt to sell a learner something that has long term value and will build customer loyalty. Yamaha and Triumph want to sell you a $15k bike so you'll spend $35k. Suzuki NZ would prefer long term customer loyalty.

**BlackSheepLogic** · 17th January 2015, 13:44

Originally Posted by James Deuce

The version we get is built specifically for the Australian and NZ markets. To remove the restrictions and match the U.S. and Euro version requires a new engine and ECU. If you read Yamaha NZ's marketing bumpf on their web page they point out the LAMS MT07 is specific to the NZ and Aus markets. It certainly would be pointless and expensive to remedy. Therefore the MT07 is fundamentally crippled and its primary purpose is to get you to buy a bigger and "better" Yamaha when you get a "real" license.

New engine unlikely. It's just not a big enough market to warrant the manufacturing cost let alone R&D costs to do it. Maybe some minor changes in the engine but most of the crippling will be ECU related.

**Ocean1** · 17th January 2015, 14:01

Originally Posted by BlackSheepLogic

New engine unlikely. It's just not a big enough market to warrant the manufacturing cost let alone R&D costs to do it. Maybe some minor changes in the engine but most of the crippling will be ECU related.

The bore is smaller. That's not the problem, and it could be said that Yamaha have refrained from a quick and dirty approach to re-engineering one of their existing line to meet what must be for them a small market.

The problem is that the heads are unchanged. Which means the compression is down. Which means that while it may be a more complete engineering solution for the LAMS market than some it's also a complete re-engineer to change it to EU/US spec's.

In the meantime, you'll notice that the torque figures are near identical, which in the real world means that only track day flyboys would possibly notice the difference.

I'm finding it deliciously ironic that the cream of the LAMS crop are turning out to be torque heavy thumpers that just happen to be light on revs, and therefore HP.

**BlackSheepLogic** · 17th January 2015, 15:25

Originally Posted by Ocean1

The problem is that the heads are unchanged. Which means the compression is down. Which means that while it may be a more complete engineering solution for the LAMS market than some it's also a complete re-engineer to change it to EU/US spec's

Wow, I'm shocked they went to that effort. Hope it doesn't hurt them long term by making it a less popular LAMs bike.

**James Deuce** · 17th January 2015, 16:29

Originally Posted by BlackSheepLogic

New engine unlikely. It's just not a big enough market to warrant the manufacturing cost let alone R&D costs to do it. Maybe some minor changes in the engine but most of the crippling will be ECU related.

It's a different bore for goodness sake! It doesn't have pressed in liners from what I can find. So it is a special run. What you guys forget is the the ENTIRE run of bikes over 500cc is a tiny fraction of every Japanese manufacturers output. The NZ and Aus LAMS market is worthwhile capturing.

The LAMS model is 655cc. The full noise one is 689cc. How do I make it any clearer?

**pritch** · 17th January 2015, 20:35

Originally Posted by BlackSheepLogic

Wow, I'm shocked they went to that effort. Hope it doesn't hurt them long term by making it a less popular LAMs bike.

You shouldn't be shocked, it had pretty much all been mentioned in the thread already.

**mossy1200** · 17th January 2015, 23:15

Originally Posted by Ocean1

I'm finding it deliciously ironic that the cream of the LAMS crop are turning out to be torque heavy thumpers that just happen to be light on revs, and therefore HP.

Agree. If you ever get a chance ride a Honda revere (slight adaption to bros 650) which is on the Lams list. You wouldn't think it would be on the list because it feels grunty and 2 much pull to be there.

**Ocean1** · 18th January 2015, 08:30

Originally Posted by mossy1200

Agree. If you ever get a chance ride a Honda revere (slight adaption to bros 650) which is on the Lams list. You wouldn't think it would be on the list because it feels grunty and 2 much pull to be there.

Never seen one, but when the boy was looking for a bike I suggested a 650 Bros. As usual as soon as you want something they all went to ground, wasn't a tidy one on TM for months.

He ended up with an XT660X, which also has plenty enough grunt, (even two up passing is no problem) is probably more suitable for taller guys and just happens to sneak in under the hp/kg limit. I was touring with his cousin on an identical bike a couple of months ago and he managed just fine.

**BlackSheepLogic** · 18th January 2015, 09:00

Originally Posted by pritch

You shouldn't be shocked, it had pretty much all been mentioned in the thread already.

It's difficult to get my head around the fact a Jap manufacture did it the right way not the cheap way like everyone else. I hope it works out for them.

Personally, I'm looking for a light bike in the 600 class but anything non-lams requires a Contortionists body position of lacks fairings. With an ECU limited bike it's less expensive to "fix" than putting in a new top end.

**GrayWolf** · 18th January 2015, 10:12

Originally Posted by James Deuce

It's a different bore for goodness sake! It doesn't have pressed in liners from what I can find. So it is a special run. What you guys forget is the the ENTIRE run of bikes over 500cc is a tiny fraction of every Japanese manufacturers output. The NZ and Aus LAMS market is worthwhile capturing.

The LAMS model is 655cc. The full noise one is 689cc. How do I make it any clearer?

Hello, Yamaha have a good track record for different bore versions of the same bike, the RD 250/350's for a kick off. Plus all the Japanese manufacturers made 700cc version of their 750's to meet the USA market. This is nothing 'new' to them, in fact if the bike is as Yamaha say, the torque is as high as the 'full noise' MT-07, it will be a damn good LAM's machine.
Lets not get into the Torque vs HP performance argument James, you know where I sit (so does Ocean I think) on that score.....

horsepower = how fast you hit the wall

Toruque = how far you take the wall with you.

**mossy1200** · 18th January 2015, 10:35

Originally Posted by GrayWolf

Hello, Yamaha have a good track record for different bore versions of the same bike, the RD 250/350's for a kick off. Plus all the Japanese manufacturers made 700cc version of their 750's to meet the USA market. This is nothing 'new' to them, in fact if the bike is as Yamaha say, the torque is as high as the 'full noise' MT-07, it will be a damn good LAM's machine.
Lets not get into the Torque vs HP performance argument James, you know where I sit (so does Ocean I think) on that score.....

horsepower = how fast you hit the wall

Toruque = how far you take the wall with you.

Its hard to explain a bike that doesn't have high hp but has torque in the whole rev range. Its an unusual feeling to be sitting at road legal speeds but already be near max torque when you accelerate.

**tri boy** · 18th January 2015, 11:52

Originally Posted by mossy1200

Its hard to explain a bike that doesn't have high hp but has torque in the whole rev range. Its an usual feeling to be sitting at road legal speeds but already be near max torque when you accelerate.

Torquey bikes rule.
I got a 95Daytona triple with the old "steamer" engine.
Fatty, the scrambler,
Xr650L

None of them will win any races, but they sure are lovely engines. MHO

Ive got a semi woody for the MT 07.
Waiting to see the other incantations in the pipeline.(rumoured to be an adventure bike etc)

**GrayWolf** · 19th January 2015, 13:33

Originally Posted by mossy1200

Its hard to explain a bike that doesn't have high hp but has torque in the whole rev range. Its an unusual feeling to be sitting at road legal speeds but already be near max torque when you accelerate.

Yes I suppose it is, unless like yourself, the other person has owned such a machine

So many are too used to the 'rev it to get power' motors we have today.