I want to corner faster but how?

[mossy1200]

When I do it as I said its a fine tuning thing that would not work if I had not reduced the bulk of my speed prior to entering the corner.

Your either going to fast or your bikes got a bad case of understeer if you need start applying brakes mid corner in a none emergency situation. Using your method of daily riding leaves you playing a numbers game and the road surface is going to let you down at some point in time.

[nzspokes]

If you learn the trail braking technique as the other poster said you would be able to do it too but if you read my post again I did say I slow prior to the bend anyway. You would need to learn to do it at a track riding school.

No Ive know how to go into a turn to fast. Much safer.

How many times have you crashed?

[mossy1200]

Trail braking is like licking out a women. One slip up and your in the shit.

[FJRider]

I would hope every crash resulted in a dangerous driving charge. If the driving wasn't dangerous, a crash wouldn't have happened.

(for 90% of crashes at least)

That was ME you quoted. Not that mini titted wench Cassina.


If every bend with a speed advisory limit sign installed (due to the number of crashes on THAT corner) ... it seems obvious that NZ roads must be a dam sight more dangerous the we ALL realized.




Thank God for ACC ... paying our medical costs to recuperate and all ...

[Big Dog]

As said good luck but for me personally I could think of nothing worse than coming off in the wet during a practise. Not all of us have a big bank balance like you. I bet you would have come off in the wet while practising yourself.

To be fair, of the hundreds of mentoring sessions I have led or the dozen or so I have been otherwise involved in:
There has been 4 low speed crashes that resulted in broken parts.
1 that required a visit to a hospital ( no ambulance but broken wrist ).
1 that only resulted in dented pride and a few extra scrapes.
5-6 standing still and dropped the bike. E.g walked away without putting side stand down or put it on a soft surface.
20-30 instances where someone lost control o a bike but did what they needed to to recover. E.g lost traction at the front, released, gained control and finished braking manoeuvre.
1 of those crashes that I can recall was in the wet and had to do with someone show boating rather than taking part in the exercises.
The worst damage I ever heard of was 1 broken clutch lever, a couple of broken tabs on a fairing, some new scratches on fairing and exhaust.
We practiced all weathers. Including horizontal rain. Probably > 30% had less than optimal conditions for some reason.

All of those would have been far more risky and more expensive had they occurred on a road.
Many was the person who told me about sometime that the learning they gleaned from the AWNMR, and later NASS as it became known, had saved them from a major.

Practice works, to succeed you must practice come what may.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[eldog]

Practice works, to succeed you must practice come what may.

Some of us, need a person to whip us into shape and drive us on to better things, I am one of those. I thrive on challenges when pushed, or whipped into shape. Some of us need to know WHAT to practise, even though I know what I should be doing.

I agree any practise is good practise. But its hard to practise for something you (me) dont know about. The same can be said about planning, hard to plan for something you dont know about.
Thats why I got training and plan to do more. Just saying...

[Big Dog]

Some of us, need a person to whip us into shape and drive us on to better things, I am one of those. I thrive on challenges when pushed, or whipped into shape. Some of us need to know WHAT to practise, even though I know what I should be doing.

I agree any practise is good practise. But its hard to practise for something you (me) dont know about. The same can be said about planning, hard to plan for something you dont know about.
Thats why I got training and plan to do more. Just saying...

Aye, and you must not shy away from that practice just because some factor has become suboptimal... unless that factor is a clear and present danger in itself.

Flat tyres? Stop and sort it out.
Wet road? Level up your skillls until you hit expert mode.

[eldog]

Aye, and you must not shy away from that practice just because some factor has become suboptimal... unless that factor is a clear and present danger in itself.

Flat tyres? Stop and sort it out.
Wet road? Level up your skillls until you hit expert mode.

yes, right again.

clear and present danger is ME and lack of knowledge/being too carefool.

but point noted

[Metastable]

Braking in a corner - from Nick Ienatsch

I have posted this before, for the OP and others that may not have seen it..... IMO it is a long, but good read.

Cheers!

*************************************************


"If you have to stop in a corner, one of two things will happen. One, you will stand the bike up and ride it off the shoulder and into whatever is over there. Or two, you will lay the bike down and slide off the shoulder of the road. Braking is done before, or after a corner. The best thing to do before taking a corner is to grind the thought "I'm going to turn this corner" into your mind."

Hiya FZ1 lovers.
I’ve stewed for two days about the above quote taken from another FZ1OA thread...and finally decided to launch this thread. In past years I would have just rolled my eyes and muttered, “Whatever”…but not anymore. I want to tell you that there are measureable, explainable, repeatable, do-able reasons that make great riders great. And brake usage is at the very tippity-top of these reasons. It’ll save your life, it’ll make you a champion. It will save and grow our sport.
I’ll ask this one favor: Would you open your mind to what I’m about to write, then go out and mess around with it?
To begin: Realize that great motorcycle riding is more subtle in its inputs than most of us imagine. I bet you are moving your hand too quickly with initial throttle and brakes. Moving your right foot too quickly with initial rear brake. The difference between a lap record and a highside is minute, almost-immeasureable differences in throttle and lean angle. The difference between hitting the Camaro in your lane and missing it by a foot is the little things a rider can do with speed control at lean angle. Brakes at lean angle. Brakes in a corner.
Yes, a rider can brake in a corner. Yes. For sure. Guaranteed. I promise. Happens all the time. I do it on every ride, track or street. Yes, a rider can stop in a corner. In fact, any student who rides with the Yamaha Champions Riding School will tell you it’s possible. Complete stop, mid-corner…no drama. Newbies and experts alike.
There are some interesting processes to this sport, mostly revolving around racing. But as I thought about this thread, putting numbers on each thought made more sense because explaining these concepts relies on busting some myths and refining your inputs. Some things must be ingrained…like #1 below.

1)You never, ever, never stab at the brakes. Understand a tire’s grip this way: Front grip is divided between lean angle points and brake points, rear grip is lean angle points and acceleration points, lean angle points and brake points. Realize that the tire will take a great load, but it won’t take a sudden load…and so you practice this smooth loading at every moment in/on every vehicle. If you stab the brakes (um...or throttle...) in your pickup, you berate yourself because you know that the stab, at lean angle on your motorcycle (and bicycle, btw), will be a crash.

2)Let’s examine tire grip. If you’re leaned over at 95% (95 points in my book Sport Riding Techniques and fastersafer.com) of the tires’ available grip, you still have 5% of that grip available for braking (or accelerating). But maybe you only have 3%!!! You find out because you always add braking “points” in a smooth, linear manner. As the front tire reaches its limit, it will squirm and warn you…if that limit is reached in a linear manner.
It’s the grabbing of 30 points that hurts anyone leaned over more than 70 points. If you ride slowly with no lean angle, you will begin to believe that aggressiveness and grabbing the front brake lever is okay…and it is…until you carry more lean angle (or it’s raining, or you’re on a dirt road or your tire’s cold…pick your excuse). Do you have a new rider in your life? Get them thinking of never, ever, never grabbing the brakes. Throttle too…

3)If you STAB the front brake at lean angle, one of two things will happen. If the grip is good, the fork will collapse and the bike will stand up and run wide. If the grip is not-so-good, the front tire will lock and slide. The italicized advice at the beginning was written by a rider who aggressively goes after the front brake lever. His bike always stands up or lowsides. He’s inputting brake force too aggressively, too quickly...he isn't smoothly loading the fork springs or loading the tire. He may not believe this, but the tire will handle the load he wants, but the load must be fed-in more smoothly…and his experience leads to written advice that will hurt/kill other riders. “Never touch the brakes at lean angle?” Wrong. “Never grab the brakes at lean angle?” Right!
But what about the racers on TV who lose the front in the braking zone? Pay attention to when they lose grip. If it’s immediately, it’s because they stabbed the brake at lean angle. If it’s late in the braking zone, it’s because they finally exceeded 100 points of grip deep in the braking zone…if you’re adding lean angle, you’ve got to be “trailing off” the brakes as the tire nears its limit.

4) Radius equals MPH. Realize that speed affects the bike’s radius at a given lean angle. If the corner is tighter than expected, continue to bring your speed down. What’s the best way to bring your speed down? Roll off the throttle and hope you slow down? Or roll off the throttle and squeeze on a little brake? Please don’t answer off the top of your head…answer after you’ve experimented in the real world.
Do this: Ride in a circle in a parking lot at a given lean angle. That’s your radius. Run a circle or two and then slowly sneak on more throttle at the same lean angle and watch what your radius does. Now ride in the circle again, and roll off the throttle…at the same lean angle. You are learning Radius equals MPH. You are learning what throttle and off-throttle does to your radius through steering geometry changes and speed changes. You are learning something on your own, rather than asking for advice on subjects that affect your health and life. (You will also learn why I get so upset when new riders are told to push on the inside bar and pick up the throttle if they get in the corner too fast. Exactly the opposite of what the best riders do. But don’t believe me…try it.)
Let me rant for a moment: Almost every bit of riding advice works when the pace is low and the grip is high. It’s when the corner tightens or the sleet falls or the lap record is within reach…then everything counts.
“Get all your braking done before the turn,” is good riding advice. But what if you don’t? What if the corner goes the other way and is tighter and there’s gravel? It’s then that you don’t need advice, you need riding technique. Theory goes out the window and if you don’t perform the exact action, you will be lying in the dirt, or worse. Know that these techniques are not only understandable, but do-able by you. Yes you! I’m motivated to motivate you due to what I’ve seen working at Freddie’s school and now the Champ school…
I’m telling you this: If you can smoothly, gently pick-up your front brake lever and load the tire, you can brake at any lean angle on and FZ1. Why? Because our footpegs drag before our tires lose grip when things are warm and dry. It might be only 3 points, but missing the bus bumper by a foot is still missing the bumper! If it’s raining, you simply take these same actions and reduce them…you can still mix lean angle and brake pressure, but with considerably less of each. Rainy and cold? Lower still, but still combine-able.

5)So you’re into a right-hand corner and you must stop your bike for whatever reason. You close the throttle and sneak on the brakes lightly, balancing lean angle points against brake points. As you slow down, your radius continues to tighten. You don’t want to run off the inside of the corner, so you take away lean angle. What can you do with the brakes when you take away lean angle? Yes! Squeeze more. Stay with it and you will stop your bike mid-corner completely upright. No drama. But don’t just believe me…go prove it to yourself.

6)Let’s examine the final sentence in the italicized quote. The best thing to do before taking a corner is to grind the thought "I'm going to turn this corner" into your mind.
No, that’s not the best thing. It’s not the worst thing and I’m all for positive thinking, but we all need to see the difference between riding advice and riding techniques. This advice works until you enter a corner truly beyond your mental, physical or mechanical limits. I would change this to: The best thing to do before taking a corner is to scan with your eyes, use your brakes until you’re happy with your speed and direction, sneak open your throttle to maintain your chosen speed and radius, don’t accelerate until you can see your exit and can take away lean angle.
7)Do you think I’m being over-dramatic by claiming this will save our sport? Are we crashing because we’re going too slowly in the corners or too fast? Yes, too fast. What component reduces speed? Brakes. What component calms your brain? Brakes. What component, when massaged skillfully, helps the bike turn? Brakes. If riders are being told that they can’t use the brakes at lean angle, you begin to see the reason for my drama level. When I have a new rider in my life, my third priority is to have them, “Turn into the corner with the brake-light on.”

I’ve said it before: This is the only bike forum I’m a member of. I like it, I like the peeps, I like the info, I love the bike. Could we begin to change the information we pass along regarding brakes and lean angle? Could we control our sport by actually controlling our motorcycles? If we don’t control our sport, someone else will try. Closed throttle, no brakes is “out of the controls”. Get out there and master the brakes.
Thanks, I feel better.

Nick Ienatsch
Yamaha Champions Riding School
Fastersafer.com

[jonnyk5614]

When I first started, I was slowing down to 60 for 75 rated corners and so on....

I tried leaning but it felt unnatural.

Then I discovered counter-steering. As you approach a moderate to fast corner, gently push the bars the wrong way (while looking at the exit of the corner). As you do this, you will feel the bike naturally tilt into the corner. Half an hour doing that and I was got used to the feeling of leaning. Now I hit 75 corners at 100 and more.

Time and no pressure - you'll get used to it.

[Erelyes]

When I first started, I was slowing down to 60 for 75 rated corners and so on....

I tried leaning but it felt unnatural.

Then I discovered what I assume is counter-steering (correct me if I am wrong). As you approach a moderate to fast corner, gently push the bars the wrong way (while looking at the exit of the corner). As you do this, you will feel the bike naturally tilt into the corner. Half an hour doing that and I was got used to the feeling of leaning. Now I hit 75 corners at 100 and more.

Time and no pressure - you'll get used to it.

You're only just learning countersteering and you have a thou?

Fuck. Me. Running.

[caseye]

When I first started, I was slowing down to 60 for 75 rated corners and so on....

I tried leaning but it felt unnatural.

Then I discovered what I assume is counter-steering (correct me if I am wrong). As you approach a moderate to fast corner, gently push the bars the wrong way (while looking at the exit of the corner). As you do this, you will feel the bike naturally tilt into the corner. Half an hour doing that and I was got used to the feeling of leaning. Now I hit 75 corners at 100 and more.

Time and no pressure - you'll get used to it.

Same corner 99 times it works! Last time some arse dropped diesel all the way around it, allow for this when you set up for the corner, brake early, be ready to accelerate out but if you see the telltale rainbow on shiny shit, slow it up a bit more, stand her up if you have to, but get round.
whatever else you do, don't ever accept anything the next post after yours says as true or credible.

[Big Dog]

Same corner 99 times it works! Last time some arse dropped diesel all the way around it, allow for this when you set up for the corner, brake early, be ready to accelerate out but if you see the telltale rainbow on shiny shit, slow it up a bit more, stand her up if you have to, but get round.
whatever else you do, don't ever accept anything the next post after yours says as true or credible.

Same thing in less words:
Always ride with a thought to being able to stop in half the road you can see.

[nzspokes]

I think it has been said the majority of single motorcyle accidents happen on bends and you sound a very likely candidate for such an accident. Or what are you going to do at the faster speeds you travel at if another vehicle comes around the bend slightly over the centre line where if you had been travelling slower you may be able to avoid?

Because they would chose the correct line so they can see the threat.

[caseye]

Because they would chose the correct line so they can see the threat.

You know you are wasting good oxygen don't you Rob!