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Thread: ZX10 front end shake - trackday - why?

  1. #1
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    14th March 2010 - 08:28
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    ZX10 front end shake - trackday - why?

    Hey guys,
    I have recently converted my ZX10 into a track bike.

    I have had the bike for over a year and its been a standard stock bike. I used to go on track days with the stock bike. I had the suspension set up by Matt from Watson Racing in Kumeu. Apparently he has been trained by Robert Taylor. I have also had the steeringg damper revalved. (made a world of difference)
    Before i had the suspension and the steering damper revlaved the front end used to get light under power in 3rd and 4th gear. I assume probably same would happen in first and second. But i am too chicken to do anything silly in 1st and 2nd gear.

    After getting it sorted i never had any problems on the road or the track.

    Recently after turning my ZX10 into a track bike (all i have done is remove stock fairings and put on race fairings), i had a similar frond end shake and get light under power in 3rd and 4th gear in the same go on track. (i mean i was accelerating in 3rd gear and front end shook and then immediately after i changed gear and stopped for a second and happened again). The damper is tuned halfway and it feels fairly stiff. I can probably go up couple of notches before it gets too stiff to make normal turns.
    I am too scared to make it any stiffer.
    What do you think the problem could be? Do i need to get the suspension set up again. The bike has had 2 crashes since the last set up and also removal of fairings.
    Could the slight weight change have offset it or the crashes?
    Please help.

  2. #2
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    12th February 2012 - 16:34
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    Have you loosened up your triple clamps and axle since you last crashed? The forks might be twisted in the tree.
    Front wheel/head bearings ok?

  3. #3
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    23rd January 2013 - 01:30
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    Start at one end of the bike and check everything. I bet both your testicles it's not worn suspension internals. Tyres, tyre pressure, bearings, wheel align, sag, etc etc. And don't assume it's in the front end. Problems in the rear end can cause head shake.

  4. #4
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    Ive read and heard about that the rider can induce this with harsh gear changes. Im no expert on it but would be worth asking a track riding coach about it.

  5. #5
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    14th March 2010 - 08:28
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    After the crash bike was checked out and cleared by a reputable bike mechanic/shop.
    They fixed the gear lever (the only problem with the bike) and rode it and deemed it safe and ok to ride with no damage.

    I have looked at the bike and i cant see anything out of the ordinary. But i have no idea what i am looking for.
    I havent loosened the axle clamp ( i am not even sure what that is). But i dont think i have loosened it cos i havent loosened anything.

    I will ask an instructor at my next track day.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by nzspokes View Post
    Ive read and heard about that the rider can induce this with harsh gear changes. Im no expert on it but would be worth asking a track riding coach about it.
    It's not so much the shifting of gears, but poor control inputs in general. When someone is too rough with gear shifting, they typically tense up and grip the bars and go stiff in the arm.

    Flap your wings bro and loosen the claws.

    Edit: And all that mechanical shit above.

  7. #7
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    25th March 2007 - 12:04
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    Quote Originally Posted by jafa21
    The bike has had 2 crashes since the last set up and also removal of fairings.
    I agree with Devil. Could it be that subconsciously, after your crashes, you could be too grippie?
    No body move... I dropped my brain

  8. #8
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    24th August 2007 - 11:31
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassina View Post
    There was a thread on this a few weeks back (tank slapping it was called) and a guy even posted a video discussion that modifying a bikes suspension can be a cause. Could you not look up the internet to find out what mods work for your particular model of bike? I would find that out first perhaps before employing anyone to do mods they think will work. Maybe some models of bike are more suited to mods than others and you may need to buy another bike.
    DON'T TAKE ANY ADVICE FROM CASSINA - SHE'S A FUCKING IDIOT.

    What you're describing is that the bars want to shake or weave when the front gets light. This can be from a number of causes, ranging from the personality of the bike, to incorrect tyre pressures, bad tyres, loose bearings, rear wheel out of alignment in the swing arm (don't trust the marks, they're almost always out), too much ride height in the rear (look for spacers), worn headset bearings, forks that are mis-aligned, wrong fork oil heights or weight, front wheel bearings, or even a bent frame or swing arm.

    Then, there's the rider inputs as described above. Your position on the bike can also affect the situation.

    ZX10R's are generally pretty lively anyhow. I would seriously advise talking to one or two people - Robert Taylor being the top of the list given that he's pretty good at this stuff, Shaun Harris being the second on this list. This is beyond the understanding of your average mechanic.

    I also have high trust in the better track day instructors to look at your riding style. Two different riders will get two different views of the same bike if their riding style or weight are different. I prefer a quicker steering bike that allows me to slide the bike - my set up is the complete opposite of my best riding buddy and neither of us can ride the other's race bikes without changes (he's old and far too intelligent to ride like I do). The point is, get the bike set up correctly by someone qualified. Get your style checked out by a coach.

    MBB.
    It’s diametrically opposed to the sanitised existence of the Lemmings around me in the Dilbert Cartoon hell I live in; it’s life at full volume, perfect colour with high resolution and 10,000 watts of amplification.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassina View Post
    There was a thread on this a few weeks back (tank slapping it was called) and a guy even posted a video discussion that modifying a bikes suspension can be a cause. Could you not look up the internet to find out what mods work for your particular model of bike? I would find that out first perhaps before employing anyone to do mods they think will work. Maybe some models of bike are more suited to mods than others and you may need to buy another bike.
    Don't fucking comment on shit that is well beyond your limited understanding. You're far too fucking simple to diagnose a complex issue, and the problem is that some poor chump might actually take the shit that falls out of your head seriously. You need another hobby, there must be somewhere where all the other fucking retards can hang out with you without causing damage to the normal people.
    It’s diametrically opposed to the sanitised existence of the Lemmings around me in the Dilbert Cartoon hell I live in; it’s life at full volume, perfect colour with high resolution and 10,000 watts of amplification.

  10. #10
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    Cassina - please go away.

    Two points - how old is the rubber on the bike ? The late hyper sport stuff is very tyre sensitive.

    And the old standby - get someone else to ride it who knows what they're doing for a second opinion.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassina View Post
    Your the only fucken idiot sport as no where in my post did I give any advise of a technical nature. poster 1 does appear to have already had expert mods done which have NOT worked. If you are going to recommend someone are you going to pay damages if the mods don't work? If not shut the fuck up yourself!!
    Damages? There's something really wrong with the way your brain works. If the OP is getting suspension tuning, even by someone qualified, it's a starting point on the track. Otherwise Valentino Rossi et al would turn up with the same bike with zero reworking for every race.
    It’s diametrically opposed to the sanitised existence of the Lemmings around me in the Dilbert Cartoon hell I live in; it’s life at full volume, perfect colour with high resolution and 10,000 watts of amplification.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumph View Post
    Cassina - please go away.

    Two points - how old is the rubber on the bike ? The late hyper sport stuff is very tyre sensitive.

    And the old standby - get someone else to ride it who knows what they're doing for a second opinion.
    Hyper sport? Yes, even tyre pressure will have an effect, as will tyre temps...

    Good advice.
    It’s diametrically opposed to the sanitised existence of the Lemmings around me in the Dilbert Cartoon hell I live in; it’s life at full volume, perfect colour with high resolution and 10,000 watts of amplification.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    It's not so much the shifting of gears, but poor control inputs in general. When someone is too rough with gear shifting, they typically tense up and grip the bars and go stiff in the arm.

    Flap your wings bro and loosen the claws.

    Edit: And all that mechanical shit above.
    Yesterday I had a couple of wobbles out of turn 6. Seems my bike wobbles a bit more with sport tyres on when im a muppet with upshfts. I relaxed a bit and it settled.

    But thats me on my bike. Op should be talking to RT or someone in the know.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    but once again you proved me wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by cassina View Post
    I was hit by one such driver while remaining in the view of their mirror.

  14. #14
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  15. #15
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    To the OP.
    Does it do it on every 3rd to 4th gear change? Or just that specific place in the track? If so, please describe that area of the track. Seal change? Camber change? rough area of seal? In short, what makes that part of the track different? Would help for possible analysis.

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