You pricks are costing us taxpayers too much money

[Akzle]

It would be interesting to know how many riders come to grief as a result of being under pressure to keep up on group rides and group rides can include far more than just middle aged riders.

just as an exercise in futility:
try not to apply your ineptitude, wilfull ignorance, persistent victimhood and untelligence to everyone else with a motorcycle.

[Maha]

Are you ever going to give up flogging the skeletal remains of that particular horse? Dragging it into every thread is getting very boring

To be fair neels, I would suggest that a large percentage of the 53 accidents last year resulting in a death, involved two or more riders riding together.
The cause of the accidents will vary.

One particular group ride we attended had two accidents, one was the ride organiser and the other was a young chap 'trying to keep up'. Both survived.
Same geographical area a year or two later, a returning rider (Father of two)on his first group ride lost his life 'trying to keep up'.

It's a strange phenomenon and it does happen.

[Voltaire]

Out of interest what happens when a Professional Rugby player is off with injuries ? ACC at 80% of his contract rate?

I'd say statistically Mid life Crisis people probably have the least Rugby related claims , and most likely least car related injuries

[SVboy]

[QUOTE=cassina;1130966222]The only people who attack my view of group riders are group riders themselves who have just so far got lucky.

Do you read your own posts before submitting them or is the pressure to keep up too much?

[nzspokes]

What has been said in articles I have read, a big killer of midlife crisis riders comes from the much higher power from modern bikes of the same cc as they rode 20 years or more ago. You are far more likely to cope with high powered bikes if you had never stopped riding in the first place. If you dont believe my claim about what I have read google Mid Life Crisis Motorcycle Rider Crashes.

Returning riders are far more open to rider training than those that have been riding the whole time thinking they are good at it. But they keep crashing. Like you.

[Maha]

The only people who attack my view of group riders are group riders themselves who have just so far got lucky. There was a public group ride yesterday and despite the best effort of the organizer to give a message about safety at the start there were lots of multivehicle overtakes and one guy almost got taken out during an attempt at a multivehice overtake when the car in front decided to overtake and did not notice him trying to overtake. There have been posts by otheres on KB about the dangers of group riding too. You and I are not lone voices on here at all. If there are accicdent statistics that are group ride specific they need to be published perhaps. The only thing is that any rider in such a crash will never admit they were riding under pressure to keep up.

Though this thread is not strictly about group ride ethics, they certainly have an impact on the biker death rate. A group ride is not always 20-30 bikes, at times the number is much less. In general, the smaller the number (in a group situation) the better. When we used to run our group rides, I would split the number into three groups and each group would leave in 5 min intervals.

[neels]

one guy almost got taken out during an attempt at a multivehice overtake when the car in front decided to overtake and did not notice him trying to overtake.

You do realise this could happen to someone riding by themselves as well, right? Behavior of idiot motorists isn't determined by the number of bikes on the road at any given time.

When we used to run our group rides, I would split the number into three groups and each group would leave in 5 min intervals.

There is some sanity in this approach, as well as not having bollocks rules like not overtaking the person in front, ride leader determines the speed etc etc.

A group of people can ride to the same destination without being within touching distance of each other the whole way, and therein lies the problem with applying the term 'group ride' to any group of people riding to the same place at the same time, and labeling it as dangerous.

[george formby]

following too close can be just as dangerous.

Two bikes went down, very nastily, here at the weekend. I live across from the hospital and every I time I hear the rescue helicopter come in I get the shits. Only reason i can think of for both bikes going down is lack of following distance. I'm still not sure why the accident happened in the first place.
From what I have read one of the riders fits this threads profile.

[Maha]

A group of people can ride to the same destination without being within touching distance of each other the whole way, and therein lies the problem with applying the term 'group ride' to any group of people riding to the same place at the same time, and labeling it as dangerous.

They start out as group ride (I use that term loosely) because they quickly fragment into a free for all, slower riders being carved up etc, why don't those who want to ride in that manner set out first?. I know of one guy who loved nothing more than to sit back, carve through the pack and then park up until everyone went passed, then do it all again..On one ride, a Ulysses member/mentor suggested that SH22 is good to place for who want to race...I learned early on not to associate myself with any large group rides after the first two or three because of the points I have mentioned previously and in this post.

[skippa1]

It would be interesting and somebody here may be able to tell me....
how many serious accidents or fatalities involving motorcycles are initiated by the actions of a motorcyclist as opposed to the actions of another vehicle, truck, car bus whatever......

[pritch]

From what I have read one of the riders fits this threads profile.

This thread was about born-again riders and their impact on ACC payments. Well, it was until Cassina came long and confused the issue - again.
Next change: pet food?

Note: I have Cassina on ignore but when you guys quote her I get to see that there is no need to change that setting.

[Maha]

Even if statistics were to prove that riding in a group was more dangerous than being a returning rider ACC premiums will not be coming down due to any finding.

It's one size fits all. It is up to the 'all' to contribute to the lowering of ACC levy's imposed on the 'all' because of the actions of a relativity small percentage. Sad but true.

[swbarnett]

What so the more you earn the more you pay in ACC ? A specific ACC levy?

Not at all. No levies is what I'm advocating.

Bugger that. Fuckers take too much tax off me now as it is - every pay rise is a laugh by the time it's taxed. A bonus looks great until it is culled.

Agreed

They could do that without to much complaining if ACC was just funded out of the big income tax coffers - everyone pays for the privilege of the system. More you earn the more you'll contribute by default.

Sorry if I wasn't clear but this is exactly what I'm advocating. NO levies whatsoever (I would remove all flat taxes like rates etc.).

[bogan]

What so the more you earn the more you pay in ACC ? A specific ACC levy?

Bugger that. Fuckers take too much tax off me now as it is - every pay rise is a laugh by the time it's taxed. A bonus looks great until it is culled.

They could do that without to much complaining if ACC was just funded out of the big income tax coffers - everyone pays for the privilege of the system. More you earn the more you'll contribute by default.


Off note - some years back Helen Clark ran an election with a promise of not tax increases - then added levies during the term claiming they were not new taxes. Look up the definition of 'Levy'. Bloody politicians.

I could have sworn I just paid an acc levy that calculated based on my income... Earner levy I believe it is called (companies pay into it directly, 'on behalf' of their employees). It almost makes sense for all lost income due to being injured, to come from the fund you pay into with income; then just leave activity specific levies like the motor vehicle account to par the cost of treatment.

[Bass]

It would be interesting and somebody here may be able to tell me....
how many serious accidents or fatalities involving motorcycles are initiated by the actions of a motorcyclist as opposed to the actions of another vehicle, truck, car bus whatever......

The way that the stats are recorded makes it impossible to be absolutely accurate, but in round figures between 30% and 45% of motorcycle fatalities are single vehicle events. Of the remainder, most of which involve bike vs car, about 70% have the primary fault attributed to the car driver. I say primary fault because in very many of these cases, the rider was doing something which contributed toward the prang.