Discussion on Mentor Programme

[xwhatsit]

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That is the issue. It was broke.

Yep. The old mentor system was broke. Not the passive sort of mentoring that's been going on since the old system and carries on now. That's not being messed with, so no need to get up in arms about it. Now we just have a good structured system as well. I see no conflict between the two.

[Maha]

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Me not seeing the point aside, I wouldn't think it in KB's best interest to be approving people as "safe". I've seen plenty of riders who under the criteria would be classed as 'safe', pull some dodgy shite, and riders you'd associate as being a bit of a loose cannon being able to proficiently articulate important riding concepts to newbs.

On one hand, KB is putting it's rubber stamp on a programme, then on the other it's taking an all care and no responsibility stance. This I do not understand. Does the volume of mentor requests justify the size of the administration team behind the programme?

I agree in what you are saying here Devil.
Its a bit like being appointed/nominated 'Hall Moniter' at school....the ins and outs of that you can work out for yourself.
RRRS is there for those who need a bit of fine tuning, and an awesome job they do I might add. They are not all over the country granted, so those who 'need' mentoring may or may note post about it, and then be put in touch with a KB mentor? possibly. Personally I think its good idea to have these Mentors out there, but if I ever want/need advice on anything I just ask. Mentor or not, there are probably three on here that I really listen too, and I have (in the past) had a one on one lession with a Mentor before, wouldn't do it again to be honest. Not that this person was stink or anything, just that, its my choice, to seek or not to seek. Damn! and I paid for that lession too...

[The Stranger:Me]

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Me not seeing the point aside, I wouldn't think it in KB's best interest to be approving people as "safe". I've seen plenty of riders who under the criteria would be classed as 'safe', pull some dodgy shite, and riders you'd associate as being a bit of a loose cannon being able to proficiently articulate important riding concepts to newbs.

On one hand, KB is putting it's rubber stamp on a programme, then on the other it's taking an all care and no responsibility stance. This I do not understand. Does the volume of mentor requests justify the size of the administration team behind the programme?

I do think there is an important point here Devil.
Both liability and responsibility.

Someone takes a noob out and said noob wind up under a truck, lets face it, this is motorcycling, it could happen.
If KB has taken all reasonable and responsible steps to prevent this scenario then who can point a finger? It's not just arse covering by the way. It is taking a responsible and a caring approach.

On the other hand how could KB stop a noob from electing to ride with say motorbicyclist, they can't, freedom of association is in the bill of rights. So what other stance is really possible in that regard?

[Jantar]

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...
RRRS is there for those who need a bit of fine tuning, and an awesome job they do I might add. They are not all over the country granted, so those who 'need' mentoring may or may note post about it, and then be put in touch with a KB mentor?

.....and I have (in the past) had a one on one lession with a Mentor before, wouldn't do it again to be honest. Not that this person was stink or anything, just that, its my choice, to seek or not to seek. Damn! and I paid for that lession too...

Many of the mentors nominated do work with RRRS, and that is one of the things that helps make them suitable as mentors.

I am shocked to read that you paid for mentoring. One of the reasons that the KB mentor scheme is set up the way it is, is to avoid any legal comeback on the site owner. This means that all mentoring is voluntary. No money, or other consideration is to change hands, and no promises or contracts are to be made.

If you paid someone for mentoring, then had an accident where it could be shown that the mentoring was deficient, the mentor is liable under OSH, and could find themselves in big trouble.

[Mental Trousers]

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Yep. The old mentor system was broke. Not the passive sort of mentoring that's been going on since the old system and carries on now. That's not being messed with, so no need to get up in arms about it. Now we just have a good structured system as well. I see no conflict between the two.

Spot on. Good to know you are able to see the bigger picture

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I dont understand why KB has taken ownership of a mentor programme instead of the passive stance of being a place where someone can just plainly request help, and people can provide it on an ad-hoc basis.

We had a mentor programme in the past. This is just continuing on from that one.

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What is the official stance on a non-approved member providing mentor assistance based on a request here?

Any members here are able to organise rides for whatever purpose they want. That's official.

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I'm sure there are plenty of people with suitable experience to be a mentor who are not often available and could not commit to a programme, but would like to just provide service when they have time. There wouldn't be much point in attempting to sign up if you're saying no all the time.

Not sure what you're saying. Mentors are voluntary. They put in as much of their own time as they want to. We've had one nominated who will be out of the country for 3 months at a time, back for 1 month. He's willing to do what he can when he's around. That's not a problem.

[Maha]

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If you paid someone for mentoring, then had an accident where it could be shown that the mentoring was deficient, the mentor is liable under OSH, and could find themselves in big trouble.

What I was taught was low speed controll/U Turns without putting your feet down and being smooth while doing it, it was a while ago, and no, the mentor can not be held liable if things go pear shaped, thats down to me. That low speed controll is difficult (20kph and under) on a big bike, but the mentor was so smooth, I looked like a I had parkinsons! Got it in the end, but didnt practice it after at all.

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

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What I was taught

Thats being taught... as in teacher... mentors are not teachers

[Joni]

The programme does have value and will help many new riders, and also helps the site set some expectations on “official” mentoring.

The programme has been very well thought out, lots of time has been invested in it, and we have tried to ensure most aspects are covered… however it was obvious even before the relaunch that there would be people who would back the new mentor programme and people who won’t. The people who do can enjoy what has been set up… the people who don’t can do their own thing as they have all along. Fairly simple.

[MSTRS:Me]

I can't understand why there is any disagreement over having a mentor system. We all (well, most of us) understand that KB is not an organisation, just a place for interested people to 'get together'. But the admins recognise there must be a degree of responsibility taken to ensure that anything of a quasi-formal nature that is linked to KB must be up to some sort of reasonable standard. This is where the old mentor system fell down...no checks and balances on individuals who put it about that they were mentors.
Now that the whole thing is more structured and formalised, with a robust process to 'elect' such mentors, the rank'n'file can have some peace of mind to know that only suitable candidates are sanctioned by the members as a whole.
As time goes by, I'm sure that others will be put forward as mentors in the various regions. This is great, because more choice will mean better outcomes. But in the meantime, the currently proposed mentors will make a great asset for all that need some assistance.

[Devil]

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I can't understand why there is any disagreement over having a mentor system. We all (well, most of us) understand that KB is not an organisation, just a place for interested people to 'get together'. But the admins recognise there must be a degree of responsibility taken to ensure that anything of a quasi-formal nature that is linked to KB must be up to some sort of reasonable standard.

I think the last mentor system, once it had become unwieldy, should have been ditched and left at that. KB taking a passive stance and just being a place where someone can request help and a member can personally provide it would mean no attachment to KB whatsoever. Nothing under the KB name. No liability, no administration.

Before anyone asks why now, why after it has been put together? Simple, because it wasn't a public proposal.

[Devil]

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Yup, I agree… that plus the incessant need to argue/debate no matter what the subject is, some people are afflicted with it quite strongly on KB it seems…

Thats just a little dismissive and offensive. How often do you see me arguing for the sake of it?

[MSTRS:Me]

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Before anyone asks why now, why after it has been put together? Simple, because it wasn't a public proposal.

No? It has certainly been a 'public request'. You perhaps forget that there are 1000's on here who know very few of the other members, or are new to motorcycling and do not know anyone who can ride (well). Who do they ask for help? And without some sort of vetting system, how does the newby know they are getting the right info?

[FROSTY:Me]

Good ,bad or indifferent we owe it to ourselves and the newbee riders to give it its best shot.
No matter how many people have been invoved in organising anything theres going to be issues they haven't figured out. Thats the nature of the beast.
As long as the people organising this matter are reasonable and able to see where they may have missed something and adjust accordingly I cant see a problem
From what I can see every nominated mentor has had their experience and skill level checked out
Heck why not just suck it and see?

That said I guess I wont be doing any wendsday night mentoring as my gib just isn't cut right --YEA RIGHT Tui

[Devil]

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No? It has certainly been a 'public request'. You perhaps forget that there are 1000's on here who know very few of the other members, or are new to motorcycling and do not know anyone who can ride (well). Who do they ask for help? And without some sort of vetting system, how does the newby know they are getting the right info?

It's an internet forum! If you want to know something, you post, people reply.
There's plenty of opportunity there for someone to shoot down an idiot attempting to help.

[Ixion]

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..
Heck why not just suck it and see?

That said I guess I wont be doing any wendsday night mentoring as my gib just isn't cut right --YEA RIGHT Tui

Because the price of getting it wrong is funerals.

If there was a novice rider for whom I had some personal attachment I would go to some considerable lengths to dissuade him (or her) from any involvement with Kiwbiker, until he/she had some years experience .

I'm sure the mentoring program will produce some very fast and 'skilled' riders, capable of 'giving the learn' to anyone. Whether that is the most important matter for novices may be more open to contention