ESE's works engine tuner

[ief]

Try ... "exacerbate the problem". I know what you mean, when it runs sweet it is really sweet then there is a hint of rough, not so sweet but still good and changes make it feel/seem rougher, harsher but it still pulls good numbers on the dyno ....

That's the one

Tim Ey
@ief:
You are not running a mechanical ignition, or? Got the same "grinding" on my Zündapp C50 when the contact is comming to its resonant frequency

No, it's electronic.

If it would be onset of deto I presume it would change (more) then it does with:

Colder plug
98 vs 95 ?
10cc vs 6,5 cc head (slightly better)
Exhaust with bigger stinger

It's just wierd, also, I have another engine, different setup witch does (depending on jetting) detonate as far as I know and it doesn't feel anything like it, perhaps logical, dunno...

More headscratching then, knock sensor has to wait although I found some simple schematics.

[breezy]

SAAB tried something like that, combining a spark plug without earth strap with a spike on the piston.
But never mind the electro-erosion of the piston; think of the currents path through the con rod bearings!

Mmmm... electricity always follows the path of least resistance.. trying to escape through the rings/piston skirt/barrel wouldn’t probably be best. But perhaps stitching insulated electrode wires in and out around the squish band area would be possible. wonder how much heat shellacked wire can stand?

[JanBros]

Mmmm... electricity always follows the path of least resistance.. trying to escape through the rings/piston skirt/barrel wouldn’t probably be best. But perhaps stitching insulated electrode wires in and out around the squish band area would be possible. wonder how much heat shellacked wire can stand?

I think it would take you too far from "KISS"

[Neal]

IEF, sounds just like the onset of deto.
Bolt a Bosch sensor to the head and fit a flashy lighty thing.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Knock-gauge-...-/182186510011
.

Can anyone comment on these detonation sensors and lights , do I just wire it up and go race or do I have to tune the system ?
If I have to tune it , how do I know if I am heading in the correct direction ?

Thank you

[oldjohnno]

SAAB tried something like that, combining a spark plug without earth strap with a spike on the piston.
But never mind the electro-erosion of the piston; think of the current's path through the con rod bearings!

SAAB and their fancy-pants electric ignitions.... I use a cigarette lighter flint attached to the piston top that strikes a set screw projecting down from the centre of the head. Screwing it down advances the timing. If only I could work out how to shut it off...

[wobbly]

Setting the deto sensitivity is easy.
Keep winding up the adjuster so that under full load ( run rich ) the green lights are on and the small red lights flicker.
Deto is a very definite step up from there, and then makes the big red light flash.

[Neal]

Setting the deto sensitivity is easy.
Keep winding up the adjuster so that under full load ( run rich ) the green lights are on and the small red lights flicker.
Deto is a very definite step up from there, and then makes the big red light flash.

Thank you for the advise , just ordered a sensor so will get the lights ASAP

[TZ350]

.

Mr Bigglesworth is being obstinate and persists with his old trick of not coming back on the throttle after shutting of for a corner.

I wanted to know if there was some problem with the EFI mapping at 12,000 rpm and so in 2nd gear and 10% throttle I let the rpm slowly build up. When it got to 12,000 rpm it would throttle easily, I could blip the throttle from closed to anywhere to my hearts content. But when I gave it a full throttle run to 12,000 rpm it pulled Ok but would not throttle from less than 50% and if I closed the throttle to anything less it would completely die until the revs had dropped back to 8,000 or so. Strangely it was similar but a less pronounced problem when I tried it with the carb.

The EGT sensor reading seems to track quite well so I did a series of runs at 15% throttle position and progressively rich-end up the map. I did runs 4 - 6 - 8 in steps on up to 40. 40 is 10 times richer than the 10% TPs run that throttled well after slowly building up to 12,000 rpm.



EGT chart of runs to 12,000+ rpm done with =<10% throttle position and increasing Map richness. As you would expect, the richer the Map setting the cooler the run started. I would have expected the lines to have been horizontal but the interesting thing is the lines tended to converge around 1200 - 1100 deg F no matter how rich the mixture was.

I would have thought changes in EGT are a reasonable indication of changes in air/fuel ratio so it makes no sense that a mixture 10 times richer finishes up nearly the same EGT at 12,000 rpm as one that has a more horizontal EGT line from the beginning.

The lines should have been horizontal, so why are they converging and 10 times richer and still running is ridiculous and running better and better as the rpm increases is even more ridiculous.

So what is going on ..... ... and is it a useful clue to Mr Bigglesworth's intransigence. ??? suggestion are welcome.

[speedpro]

Is fuel pressure falling off? If so it wouldn't matter how much fuel you configured in the table, to a point. Or the obvious, you aren't running out of injector duration? Have you tried BIG injectors with a suitable reduction in on-time? The Ecotrons adjusts duration to compensate for the larger injectors but if you have maxed out the smaller ones duration wise, the bigger ones will allow more fuel. It sounds like something is at max

[wobbly]

My first reaction is that as you approach 12,000 the map has less and less affect.
That is there is some other variable that is controlling the A/F mixture ratio as you increase the revs closer to peak fuel " need ".
I dont know, could be anything, injector flow capability, pump flow capability are but two possibilities.
As you say, increasing the map to change the injection rate by a set % should affect the egt across the entire range.
But its not as you approach peak demand, so that means the injector on time has increasingly less relevance - something else is controlling the fuel delivery.

[TZ350]

Is fuel pressure falling off? If so it wouldn't matter how much fuel you configured in the table, to a point. Or the obvious, you aren't running out of injector duration? Have you tried BIG injectors with a suitable reduction in on-time? The Ecotrons adjusts duration to compensate for the larger injectors but if you have maxed out the smaller ones duration wise, the bigger ones will allow more fuel. It sounds like something is at max

There is an onboard pressure gauge, pressure is good, 3 Bar. Two stage injectors, plenty of injection capacity. But I expect you are right, something is maxing out. Richban suggests there might be an obscure un-ticked box.

My first reaction is that as you approach 12,000 the map has less and less affect.

That is there is some other variable that is controlling the A/F mixture ratio as you increase the revs closer to peak fuel " need ". I don't know, could be anything, injector flow capability, pump flow capability are but two possibilities.

As you say, increasing the map to change the injection rate by a set % should affect the egt across the entire range.
But its not as you approach peak demand, so that means the injector on time has increasingly less relevance - something else is controlling the fuel delivery.

"Something else is controlling the fuel delivery" yes looks like something else other than the main Map is getting involved in controlling the fueling too.

[speedpro]

What about using the system fuel multiplier. I think there is a parameter you typically use when first trying to get an engine going with FI where you can increase/decrease fuel in large doses by simply multiplying everything by say 1.2, for instance

[speedpro]

Global Fuel Enrichment Factor

[F5 Dave]

Presumably you can calibrate the tps, it isn't inversed or ssomething dopey?

Have you tried running the carb lean and augmenting it with the injection? Just to see if you can run it right?

And of course after such major bottomend ssurgery you have done a leakdown test?

[husaberg]

.

Mr Bigglesworth is being obstinate and persists with his old trick of not coming back on the throttle after shutting of for a corner.

.

To me this bit, sounds like Unburnt fuel.
It take a bit of time to clear.
the Cagiva 500IE was never able to dial it out.
Pumper carbs do the same thing as they keep on pumping where the throttle is open or closed.
This can be dialed out with a bleed and a one way valve, i sent you a handwritten explanation that jennings did on the Bridgestone about 5 years ago.
Try doing you run but not shutting off completely or blipping throttle.
Can the injection be set up for auto blip in conjuction with the ignitech and a servo?