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Thread: ESE's works engine tuner

  1. #6901
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    18th May 2007 - 20:23
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    Reusing these old parts for testing and Prof of Concept.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Scaveng pump and the smaller pumper carb which is going to be converted into a direct injection oil pump.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    because a boost bottle produces a more even flow velocity through the carb, the suction signal will be weaker, so you may need to fit bigger main and needle jets. That is also valid for a plenum
    That could explain why I had to go from a 140 to a 180mj when I first tried the plenum idea.

    Engmod2T simulations show an improvement with a plenum or boost bottle but I couldn't get anything extra by combining them, Frits said I wouldn't need both.

  2. #6902
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    Quote Originally Posted by bucketracer View Post
    Interesting that the blade opens inline with the gas flow and not accross it like we thought it should.
    Same as a Cr125 one then. (the blade opening bit that is) they are one ebay $15-100 us occasionally. here is one here. It's possibly the worse one i have seen on Ebay at the dearest price as well.
    http://http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-1986-CR-125-Cylinder-ATAC-Power-Valve-Exhaust-Manifold-Chamber-/390395992855?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5ae56a1b17&vxp=mtr



    I thought i sent a link to TZ a while back for one $15 and brand new looking?
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  3. #6903
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    Carb Angle

    Hey Guys

    Just wondering about carb angle v float level. I have noticed that some PWK's are run at quite steep angles mine is not to bad but was just wondering if you need to make any major adjustments to the float hight V angle of the carb.

    I was looking over an RS250 manual and it says the standard 16mm for the float hight and the carbs are on a really large angle. 1989 rs250 that is.

  4. #6904
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    Quote Originally Posted by richban View Post
    Hey Guys

    Just wondering about carb angle v float level. I have noticed that some PWK's are run at quite steep angles mine is not to bad but was just wondering if you need to make any major adjustments to the float hight V angle of the carb.

    I was looking over an RS250 manual and it says the standard 16mm for the float hight and the carbs are on a really large angle. 1989 rs250 that is.
    Use gravity - make 'em vertical. See ya Friday
    Sometimes you wish it was easier, but if it was, everyone else would do it, then you remember you don't want to be like everybody else!

  5. #6905
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    Quote Originally Posted by bucketracer View Post
    Interesting that the blade opens inline with the gas flow and not accross it like we thought it should.
    Why would you think that? Opening the blade across the flow would have three big disadvantages. It would be much more of a disturbance to the flow, it would heat up the blade much more, and the flow colliding against the protruding half of the blade would constantly try to rotate it. As the flow direction is alternating so close to the cylinder, that would mean a constant hammering on the governing mechanism.

  6. #6906
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    Why would you think that? ...
    Because in trying to understand them I saw a picture of one and it was described that way, it made sense at the time that the flow path could be extended that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    Opening the blade across the flow would have three big disadvantages. It would be much more of a disturbance to the flow, it would heat up the blade much more, and the flow colliding against the protruding half of the blade would constantly try to rotate it. As the flow direction is alternating so close to the cylinder, that would mean a constant hammering on the governing mechanism.
    Thanks that makes a lot of sense.

  7. #6907
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    Honda obviously found out how to make these things work just as I did.
    As short a connecting tube as you can get, diameter about 1/2 the header,ATAC vol about the same as the cylinder swept vol.
    We had about 1/3 of the throttle plate hanging down in the header when it was open, in line with the flow direction.
    By experiment you find the point where the resonating volume starts to kill power, and then go back a couple of hundred rpm, and snap it shut with a rpm driven solenoid.
    Easy with the Ignitech programmable output.
    There is NO advantage to ramping the closing point ie interconnecting it with the PowerValve is nowhere near as effective as a single point solenoid action.
    Spencers Honda 500 Tripple had two of them on the outer pipes, and it was completely unrideable without them.
    You could get even better useable band width by having a double volume system, where another plate valve opened and shut the entrance to a second bottle vol.
    The two being open initially, then the second vol being shut off, creating a much smaller vol that was then shut of at a higher rpm.
    But hey the simple thing works a treat on engines with no option for a PV.

    Re the carb angle.You will find that if you go up at too high an angle that the pilot circuit will spew fuel into the carb under brakes, as the level rises in the front of the bowl.
    Only way to fix this is to drop the fuel level, but then you risk having a too low level around the mian jet well.
    This can be helped by making a main jet extension spacer and fitting a deep nut on the bowl.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  8. #6908
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    Thanks for that, helps a lot.

  9. #6909
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    Most japanese engines use thrust washers each side of the bigend / cranshaft faces, but some Italian ones do not use them at all. The bigend eye bears against the crankshaft boss.

    Are they necessary ?? what are the pros and cons ?? Also 1mm thickness seems a sensible minimum.

    Information and comments please

    thanks

  10. #6910
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    Are they shimmed in the pistons? RG400s/500s had some queer arrangement with thrust washers in SE.
    Don't you look at my accountant.
    He's the only one I've got.

  11. #6911
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    Look to jennings for the answer

    Quote Originally Posted by twotempi View Post
    Most japanese engines use thrust washers each side of the bigend / cranshaft faces, but some Italian ones do not use them at all. The bigend eye bears against the crankshaft boss.

    Are they necessary ?? what are the pros and cons ?? Also 1mm thickness seems a sensible minimum.

    Information and comments please

    thanks
    Jennings will tell you why.
    '
    ps i posted it a while back as well. you obviously were not part of the exclusive 6 who actually read it.
    Shame it had a pic something rather beautiful in it.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  12. #6912
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    No, the conrod is not located laterally at the little end in the piston as is done in McCulloch chainsaw engines - and KT100 kart engines ??
    It is located by the side bosses of the crankshaft without any washers although there are substantial oiling depressions in the side face of the conrods.

    Jennings sayes that this may cause the oil to "flash off" thereby overheating the conrod bigend bearing.

    This info is 30 years old now and I wondered if current experience has changed this opinion.

    thanks for all replies as I have to make a decision for a crankshaft rebuild.

  13. #6913
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    Quote Originally Posted by twotempi View Post
    No, the conrod is not located laterally at the little end in the piston as is done in McCulloch chainsaw engines - and KT100 kart engines ??
    It is located by the side bosses of the crankshaft without any washers although there are substantial oiling dpressions in the side face of the conrods.

    Jennings sayes that this may cause the oil to "flash off" thereby overheating the conrod bigend bearing.

    This info is 30 years old now and I wondered if current experience has changed this opinion.

    thanks for all replies as I have to make a decision for a crankshaft rebuild.
    30 years old? I'd say closer to 40 years old
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  14. #6914
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    Its the old story of simply moving the weakest link from one area within an engine to another.
    Basic bearing operation dictates that full compliment needles will handle a heap of load, but are ultimately limited, in that the rollers are all rubbing on each other
    and this leads to failure.They also cannot handle ANY movement away from dead true in any plane, as they then skid even more rapidly.
    Having the big end well open with alot of clearance around the rod and cage helps access by the oil film and makes this area pretty bullet proof. with no washers in the way.
    But this then moves the point of most wear up to the location washers in the piston.
    In a KT100 the versions with alloy washers in the small end will have wear marks on these washers in a very short time, the small end being caged makes it bullet proof,and
    the open rod big end lasts well, until the cage wears on the rod bore.
    In the end it is the rod big end cage wear that forms the limiting factor, and it has been found by thousands of engine rebuilds, that the silver coated big end cage and washers have about the same ( acceptable ) limiting
    lifespan - the open, caged small end lasts forever in either case.
    Simply removing the washers is plain dumb - I have seen a couple of new crank designs done this way just recently, both failed very badly with lube failure around the rod big end - IT DOES NOT WORK, reliably.
    Thus having the washers down the bottom becomes a known factor - replace them when you replace the cage.
    The rod and pin will usually take around 4 bearing replacements.
    Iin fact if you could buy them, simply replacing the cage ( with the washers as well ) would mean you could keep the rollers - for the life of the rod.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  15. #6915
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    Bigend thrust washers it is then !! Which was my preference.

    thanks for the feedback.

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