Page 474 of 2625 FirstFirst ... 3744244644724734744754764845245749741474 ... LastLast
Results 7,096 to 7,110 of 39365

Thread: ESE's works engine tuner

  1. #7096
    Join Date
    20th April 2011 - 08:45
    Bike
    none
    Location
    Raalte, Netherlands
    Posts
    3,341
    More news from Richard Maas. Did his trombone pipe give the desired results? O yes. At 10,000 rpm it gives 4 HP more than the same engine with a fixed pipe. It runs over 17,000 rpm without the need for a powerjet and with a fixed ignition timing. It is miles better than an engine with an exhaust power valve. And the mapping of pipe length, ignition timing and powerjet pulse width has yet to be carried out. Maybe the powerjet can disappear altogether.
    Only problem so far: the piece of pipe that is fixed to the cylinder, is shrouded by the pipe that slides over it, so it gets very hot. Too hot for the Viton O-ring that is taking care of sealing. Any bright ideas, anyone?

  2. #7097
    Join Date
    20th January 2010 - 14:41
    Bike
    husaberg
    Location
    The Wild Wild West
    Posts
    11,823
    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    More news from Richard Maas.
    Only problem so far: the piece of pipe that is fixed to the cylinder, is shrouded by the pipe that slides over it, so it gets very hot. Too hot for the Viton O-ring that is taking care of sealing and low-friction guidance. Any bright ideas, anyone?
    Lab seal with piston rings.I know a "boring" answer.

    Ps i am not bright so i used someones else's idea.Mr Woolley (he missed a bit of the two stroke physics though)
    Last edited by husaberg; 8th April 2012 at 10:12. Reason: added sourse of seal credited woolley
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  3. #7098
    Join Date
    4th January 2009 - 21:08
    Bike
    YLR150RR and a RD350LC
    Location
    Not far from Ruapuna
    Posts
    2,368
    I think Husa is half onto it, make a Labarynth in the sliding part so there will be no contact with the inner, then seperate the guiding function using a couple of rods like he did at the rear mount on the pipe.
    My neighbours diary says I have boundary issues

  4. #7099
    Join Date
    20th April 2011 - 08:45
    Bike
    none
    Location
    Raalte, Netherlands
    Posts
    3,341
    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    Lab seal with piston rings.I know a "boring" answer. Ps i am not bright so i used someones else's idea.
    Using someone else's ideas is a sign of intelligence. But the piston rings are a no-go. The wall thickness of the inner tube is too small; there is no place for ring grooves. So the rings would have to sit in the collar at the front end of the outer pipe and seal inward. That is a trick piston rings do not master... Or do they?

  5. #7100
    Join Date
    20th January 2010 - 14:41
    Bike
    husaberg
    Location
    The Wild Wild West
    Posts
    11,823
    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    Using someone else's ideas is a sign of intelligence. But the piston rings are a no-go. The wall thickness of the inner tube is too small; there is no place for ring grooves. So the rings would have to sit in the collar at the front end of the outer pipe and seal inward. That is a trick piston rings do not master... Or do they?
    Can't picture the setup but think i see what you mean.But they could seal both ways. I am trying to think of an application where a bore would travel over a seal or ring can't think of any. Yet (Air pump?) like a pushbike?it would be problematic with the seals trying to tip over.
    But it doesn't mater not as it looks like viton is only good for 200 degrees c gee that low what are the Orings in heads made from?

    So there are other material that could work to a higher working temp.Not much but at least higher
    what about a soft metal o ring.

    I have seen plastic rings in a air pump of sorts were they ptfe or tfe.

    Anyway attached below.

    What sort of materials are in brake caliper seals the ones with carbon disks must have still got kind of hot with the disks glowing red hot and all that.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails PTFE Seals 2006.pdf  
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  6. #7101
    Join Date
    20th October 2010 - 20:59
    Bike
    Rg50 Fxr's150
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    441
    Blog Entries
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    More news from Richard Maas. Did his trombone pipe give the desired results? O yes. At 10,000 rpm it gives 4 HP more than the same engine with a fixed pipe. It runs over 17,000 rpm without the need for a powerjet and with a fixed ignition timing. It is miles better than an engine with an exhaust power valve. And the mapping of pipe length, ignition timing and powerjet pulse width has yet to be carried out. Maybe the powerjet can disappear altogether.
    Only problem so far: the piece of pipe that is fixed to the cylinder, is shrouded by the pipe that slides over it, so it gets very hot. Too hot for the Viton O-ring that is taking care of sealing. Any bright ideas, anyone?
    Could you use a carbon ring like the ones used in mechanicl seals, instead of the viton o-ring. It will not seal as well as the o-ring, but you may be able to pack around the carbon ring with silicon lube between runs. Electroless nickle plate, or copper plate the inner tube to disapate the heat faster & get a nicer surface for the carbon to run on.

  7. #7102
    Join Date
    12th February 2004 - 10:29
    Bike
    bucket FZR/MB100
    Location
    Henderson, Waitakere
    Posts
    4,194
    Fit a sleeve over the header where the sliding seal is. The sleeve is a few mm larger than the pipe. With a bit of insulation between the header and the sleeve the temperature could be dropped enough for the seal to survive.

  8. #7103
    Join Date
    2nd July 2011 - 08:25
    Bike
    2006, KTM, 250 SX
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    282
    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    More news from Richard Maas. Did his trombone pipe give the desired results? O yes. At 10,000 rpm it gives 4 HP more than the same engine with a fixed pipe. It runs over 17,000 rpm without the need for a powerjet and with a fixed ignition timing. It is miles better than an engine with an exhaust power valve. And the mapping of pipe length, ignition timing and powerjet pulse width has yet to be carried out. Maybe the powerjet can disappear altogether.
    Only problem so far: the piece of pipe that is fixed to the cylinder, is shrouded by the pipe that slides over it, so it gets very hot. Too hot for the Viton O-ring that is taking care of sealing. Any bright ideas, anyone?
    The toughest O-ring material I'm aware of is the Trelleborg Sealing Solutions material designation J8325. -Max operating temp. 325°C
    At least well above any Viton material, but perhaps not enough. Could be a drop in solution though.

    Isolast® is Trelleborg Sealing Solutions proprietary perfluoroelastomer. It combines the elastic properties of fluorocarbon (FKM) with the outstanding chemical resistance and the high temperature stability of PTFE. Isolast® seals can be used for applications in high temperature service up to +325 °C / +615 °F. Isolast® O-Rings are available in metric and inch dimensions to ISO 3601 and AS 568.
    Linky: http://www.tss.trelleborg.com/global...er-o-ring.html

    If you get close using this material, perhaps cooling fins on the shrouding part of the pipe as a band aid.

  9. #7104
    Join Date
    20th January 2010 - 14:41
    Bike
    husaberg
    Location
    The Wild Wild West
    Posts
    11,823
    Does it need to be sealed where it slides why not just the end and accept or alter the volumes so it to be part of the pipe?
    or a bellows type seal over the top like a FWD exuast convoluted pipe.or a convoluted pipe by it self?
    another possible seal could be a spring it would create a torturous path and would? allow the sliding .
    Automatic rifles ans such like must have i guess some high temp seals or is it all based on fine machined tolerances?

    In the catalog i posted it says Peek is good for applications to 600f as well (315c)

    Hindsight is rifle piston helped to be sealed by the very gas pressure they use? if the pressure was equalized on either side would that help?
    it seems this very gas pressure could pos be made to help move the pipe as well two birds.


    Ps ..er make love not war. Unless it is with the 4 strokes.

    Question for Frits
    That is real clever with the dutch set up seeming to use either a rotary or elliptical motion in the actuation to it would seem, speed it up.(The variable length)
    As you may remember i wanted to use compressed air. You then suggested LPG. which is very cold while under pressure, also Nitrogen is cold also while pressurisedmmm....

    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    Something to think about while the rest of the family occupy themselves with buying, boiling, painting, hiding, searching, finding and eating easter eggs: a couple of recent videos from the Dutch 50 cc scene.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvV4x...feature=relmfu
    http://youtu.be/0odVzSgufjk
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  10. #7105
    Join Date
    13th May 2011 - 15:09
    Bike
    98 honda 125
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    I'll rig it so it sways out of the way and stays there as long as the engine runs in the power band.
    Well, the 24/7 inlet idea is novel, certainly very interesting. My bet is that it either is a huge success, or a flop...but anyone could have guessed that. I would put my money on the latter, just because all inlet tuning will be non existant. And if thats the case, there may be a large hp loss. Who knows.
    Myron

  11. #7106
    Join Date
    24th July 2006 - 11:53
    Bike
    KTM 890 Adventure
    Location
    Wgtn
    Posts
    5,541
    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    So the rings would have to sit in the collar at the front end of the outer pipe and seal inward. That is a trick piston rings do not master... Or do they?
    Can't imagine why not. They'd be tensioned inwards of course, possibly with porting from upstream to the rear of the groove? Maybe not, what's the pressure diferential?

    Stealing more existing ideas for materials would be a good idea, hard chrome surface for the inner tube? Would want to precision grind it in any case...
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  12. #7107
    Join Date
    20th January 2010 - 14:41
    Bike
    husaberg
    Location
    The Wild Wild West
    Posts
    11,823
    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    Can't imagine why not. They'd be tensioned inwards of course, possibly with porting from upstream to the rear of the groove? Maybe not, what's the pressure diferential?

    Stealing more existing ideas for materials would be a good idea, hard chrome surface for the inner tube? Would want to precision grind it in any case...
    I just thought it is rather obvious to i am afraid so forgive me. Assuming it is the temperature causing the sealing issue why not lower the outside temperature of the inner pipe by using a ceramic like coating on the inner wall of the header. That way there would be less transfer of heat to the outside wall.less heat less issue's plus possibly more top end power with a hot pipes as well. if it is the hot exhaust gases causing the problem a metal seal ahead of the rubber seal while not being that effective would certainly at least lower the temp exposure?
    QuickSilver are delighted to be able to offer customers the option of Zircotec ‘Thermohold GP’ ceramic coating for exhaust manifolds and components.
    Developed by the former engineering division of the UK Atomic Energy Authority (AEA) at Harwell in Oxfordshire, the company now known as Zircotec, was privatised in 1996.
    This is not intended as a cosmetic enhancement (though they do look good) it has the potential for a significant contribution to the engine’s thermal efficiency.
    The function of the Zircotec coating is to consistently resist the loss of heat energy through the exhaust tube.
    This zirconia-based ceramic coating was originally produced as a barrier for the thermal management of coolant pipes to & from reactor cores.
    It has now been developed specifically for exhaust systems and is known as ‘Thermohold GP’.
    Zirconia has a thermal efficiency of less than 1 watt per metre per kelvin.
    By contrast, Alumina has a thermal efficiency of 4 watts per metre per kelvin.
    The way the Thermohold coating works is, primarily, by inhibiting radiated heat from the surface of the material.
    It forms a physical ceramic barrier so that the heat on the inside of the exhaust remains inside.
    In some applications a difference, between the gas on the heated side and the external air, of up to 200°C can be seen.
    The fact that the heat is held within the exhaust system, therefore effecting back pressure, can also provide power advantages.
    Typical benefits of using Thermohold GP are:
    · Significant improvement in heat management within the engine.
    · Prevention of local component and chassis damage from radiated heat.
    · Reduced thermal expansion of the coated product resulting in lower stress on the mountings and surrounding structure.
    · Giving a degree of fire resistance as a lightweight heat shield, the saving in weight over conventional insulation can be considerable.
    · Enhanced component appearance.
    · Increased power through retaining heat energy within the exhaust and providing greater gas velocity.
    This is not a paint or surface treatment, it resembles a traditional enamel coating in its thickness.
    It is applied in three stages, surface preparation, metal bond coat, ceramic coating.
    Coating thickness: approx 300 - 350µ comprising ~ 100µ metal bond coat and 200-250µ ceramic.
    Total weight increase will be 1.6 > 1.7 kg/m2
    For Motorsport, an additional important reason for coating is to protect surrounding structures - carbon-fibre parts, if scorched, can delaminate.
    It is also important to stop heat ingress into mechanical areas such as gear boxes and oil supply and radiator lines.
    Compared to ‘wrapped-round’ glass fibre, it is not only less bulky but it also does away with the need for straps or brackets.
    The natural finish colour is white, it can also be finished in grey or black by the application of an additional coating.
    Typical Exhaust system applications include:
    · Air-cooled engines where heat management is so important.
    · Turbo-charged engines where exhaust gas velocity is paramount.
    · Motorsport use for all the benefits noted above
    · Heat management in a crowded engine bay.
    · Emissions-critical engines where consistent engine & exhaust gas temperatures must be maintained over all conditions.
    Notes:
    In the early 1980s, Toyota researched production of a ceramic engine which could run at a temperature of over 6000 °F (3300 °C). Ceramic engines do not require a cooling system and hence allow a major weight reduction and therefore greater efficiency. Fuel efficiency of the engine is also higher at high temperature, as shown by Carnot’s theorem. In a conventional metallic engine, much of the energy released from the fuel must be dissipated as waste heat in order to prevent a meltdown of the metallic parts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  13. #7108
    Join Date
    24th July 2006 - 11:53
    Bike
    KTM 890 Adventure
    Location
    Wgtn
    Posts
    5,541
    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    I just thought it is rather obvious to i am afraid so forgive me. Assuming it is the temperature causing the sealing issue why not lower the outside temperature of the inner pipe by using a ceramic like coating on the inner wall of the header. That way there would be less transfer of heat to the outside wall.less heat less issue's plus possibly more top end power with a hot pipes as well. if it is the hot exhaust gases causing the problem a metal seal ahead of the rubber seal while not being that effective would certainly at least lower the temp exposure?
    Yup, all true. Ceramic coating inside the thin walled inner tube might be a problem in both applying it and keeping it in place. The ceramic has a different thermal expansion than steel, in my experience it tends to flake off in such situations. In fact if you could keep it in place you could probably make a better case for coating the OD of the inner and running a reinforced carbon ring against that.

    Heat? What heat?
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  14. #7109
    Join Date
    20th January 2010 - 14:41
    Bike
    husaberg
    Location
    The Wild Wild West
    Posts
    11,823
    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    Yup, all true. Ceramic coating inside the thin walled inner tube might be a problem in both applying it and keeping it in place. The ceramic has a different thermal expansion than steel, in my experience it tends to flake off in such situations. In fact if you could keep it in place you could probably make a better case for coating the OD of the inner and running a reinforced carbon ring against that.

    Heat? What heat?
    found these seals well the heat and pressure from a shotgun must be substantial
    http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=11149/guntechdetail/
    diameter appears ballpark.

    these alsohttp://www.skf.com/portal/skf_pol/ho...692594&lang=en
    http://www.sealanddesign.com/categor...omers/466.html
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  15. #7110
    Join Date
    24th July 2006 - 11:53
    Bike
    KTM 890 Adventure
    Location
    Wgtn
    Posts
    5,541
    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    found these seals well the heat and pressure from a shotgun must be substantial
    http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=11149/guntechdetail/
    diameter appears ballpark.

    these alsohttp://www.skf.com/portal/skf_pol/ho...692594&lang=en
    http://www.sealanddesign.com/categor...omers/466.html
    The first is standard hydraulic seal design, quite high drag. Also the moving element is PTFE, not good enough in that environment.

    The second is a simple elastomeric ring, they don't say what the material is but one of the silicon family is probably a good choice. Might be the best readilly available material for the trombone application too, although it's not very abrasion resistent. Unless you've got contacts at Boeing or Northrop Grumman, they use some hideously expensive and very proprietorial extreme temp elastomers.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 53 users browsing this thread. (1 members and 52 guests)

  1. Ocean1

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •