ESE's works engine tuner

[wobbly]

The backups are tapered from full width at the clamp, to a point with a small rad on the end.
These pointed backup plates are 1/2 the reed petal length.
I have tested several full width petal plates, and some made better power - I believe due to the fact they were slightly stiffer than the original petals
and this is what was needed.

[RomeuPT]

I have not tried to do an MX design for a 250, only fully ported Open class 250 karts.
We ran 1080 pipes on these but i found no advantage in steep angles that ended in anything fatter than 135, and besides I doubt even that diameter would fit on the bike.
A belly that fat on the MX ported setup I believe would overscavenge and loose important low/mid power for little gain in top end that is hardly used during a dirt based race.
Here is a comparo of 250 - 2T and the 4T competition, showing what is needed to be competitive.

The 1080 you mention is from piston to restrictor right, and is the same peak rpm as stock?

No,No,NO.
The hydroforming method works very well in headers where normally there are sharp radii and may cut sections.
But as soon as the angle deltas increase dramatically, getting into the diffuser section, the smoothing and smearing effect of the continuous progressive angle change looses power.
This is most dramatic when changing angle each side of the belly section.

The best combination of methods is hydroforming the front section followed by individual cones.
The pipe in the pic has no sharp angle changes - thus likely is a blown up type.

Honda has used the die formed method for years, with two halves pressed in a CNC machined form tool.
This also gives good sharp angle changes, but with no weld finishing needed.

I spent - wasted - months of time at JL building pipes for 250 Superkarts learning how to do really beautiful formed shapes.
But even with the mid section clamped in a ring,to at least keep that parallel, we lost around 2 Hp per pipe against the best hand built section method.

KTM did a nice job of this, but sadly they were stuck in a Bartol time warp with the actual design elements.

I do want to make pressed or hidroformed header for my pipes, do we really need a mold to make the pressed or can we hammerit against radiused pipes?

Many thanks

The backups are tapered from full width at the clamp, to a point with a small rad on the end.
These pointed backup plates are 1/2 the reed petal length.
I have tested several full width petal plates, and some made better power - I believe due to the fact they were slightly stiffer than the original petals
and this is what was needed.

I didn't quite understand, you mean like those?

Sorry if many questions

[marsheng]

Use the softest carbons you can.
Make a " rev plate " from the old reed 0.5mm material ie a strip say 6mm wide, this sits on top of the carbon under the screws.
Then take the original thin fibre reeds, cut them to 1/2 length then cut them to make 3 pointed hats,these are backups that sit on top of the 0.5mm spacer.
Next take the old radius plate and cut it to 1/3 its original length,this sits on top of the backups with the screws going thru all 4 elements.
Best reed setup known to man.

Is this what you mean ?

[wobbly]

Yes, but I think the 0.5mm material from the original reed is too thick to use as a backup.

At JL we made a form tool from solid bar the header dimensions, and heated it bright red to bend it to the correct shape to make headers for RD/LC/TZ.
Then cut it in 1/2 for LH/RH sides.
Then sat each of these horizontally in a mold box and poured molten alloy into it to form the female press cavity.
The alloy shrunk away enough that the 0.8mm cold drawn sheet would be a tight fit between the inner and outer forms we had made.
When we had pressed a pattern into the forms in a press, the excess was easy to slice off with a cold chisel and hammer along the flat face of the 1/2 steel inner.
Then the two 1/2s were easy to seam weld along this cut with no filler rod needed.

Much easier to do these days with cnc inner and outer die sets.

[F5 Dave]

The backups are tapered from full width at the clamp, to a point with a small rad on the end.
These pointed backup plates are 1/2 the reed petal length.
I have tested several full width petal plates, and some made better power - I believe due to the fact they were slightly stiffer than the original petals
and this is what was needed.

Cool, every day's a school day. Nice pic Wallace.

[marsheng]

Cool, every day's a school day. Nice pic Wallace.

I have one of those Samsung Gallexy Note 2s. Really good. It has a stylus so I drew the picture on it, waved my hand over the screen which copies it to the clipboard and then attached the file to the forum. What could be easier?

[F5 Dave]

hmm. . .having someone else do it for you? - Hey wait!

[marsheng]

I have some 0.3 mm carbon on its way and I try Woobly's suggestion. Sounds good.

[timg]

I have some 0.3 mm carbon on its way and I try Woobly's suggestion. Sounds good.

So when's my 30hp FXR gonna be ready then? Huh?

[F5 Dave]

I imagine when you've invested 30 hp worth of money

[TZ350]

Rich these are the det sensor posts that I could find.

Attachment 258175 Attachment 258176

So that is Aprilia RS250 and RGV250 that have cable operated TPS's, now that is very handy ......



Thanks for the layout, TZ suggested I should stand them all on end and number them according to their length but having a proper layout plan is much better.

Forget the homemade bullshit, get one of these with the extra wire to ground.
When it sees deto it can ground an Ignitech input and retard the timing automatically.
You get flashing lights and engine protection all in one shot, and cheap as chips - made in Czech so it likes being connected to an Ignitech - same lingo..
Works perfectly - when you get it trimmed correctly it will tell you where to manually pull out timing, then it just operates as a failsafe.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Knock-gauge-...ht_1582wt_1297

Attachment 263028

Ok mine turned up today.

Attachment 263027

And a couple of two wire sensors I picked up cheap from the local garage.

Attachment 263081

BOSCH p/n 0 261 231 046

Attachment 263082

Other sensors can be found here too. http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/html/4563.htm

Good luck with the Deto sensing TZ. I like the little warning instrument!

Here's how I mounted my sensor. I drilled-tapped an old head bolt and screwed a stud.

Attachment 263051Attachment 263052

My sensor has a PN 0-261-231-001, what's yours?
According to this http://www.phormula.co.uk/KnockCalculator.aspx , deto freq for 56mm bore should be 10.2kHz.
According to Bosch datasheets for PN -047 & -120, sensors are able to catch frequencies from 1 to 20 kHz.
I assume all Bosch sensors can sense knock within this range (?)

edit: As for the pick-up voltage, I think it won't be more than +-10V. I had a voltage test yesterday with a data acquisition device in real time! I spinned the crank by hand and recorder the voltage waveform from the pick-up in the PC. As RPM increase, amplitude (and freq of course) of the pulses increase - by hand-spinning it didn't exceed 3~3.5 VAC. Sure it was a lot of fun to watch!

The shock waves from deto will be transmitted right thru the cylinder and the case.
I have seen many times where for no apparent reason the head or barrel studs loosen off - not because they weren't torqued correctly, but due to the
gasket being crushed momentarily from deto.
Many cars have the det sensors on the side of the block,some with multiple sensors for cylinder pairs.
All that happens when the sensor is further away from the chamber is that the shock intensity is reduced, so the sensitivity of the amp must be wound up - not an issue.

Relocated the knock sensor. I found some steel head bolts and faced one off, then drilled and tapped it. And made a standoff that was carefully faced off as the knock sensor likes to be securely mounted on a very flat surface. The black goop (silicon glue) on the blue wire is there as a strain relief and hopefully it will stop the vibration breaking the wire where it is attached to the copper head fin.

The Trumeter 7111 is no longer stocked by RS but they do have something similar.

Attachment 269009

703TR002N-512D RS part number 183-5952 $63.50 ... 5-12V and less than 10mA so easily self powered and at 500Hz fast enough to count all deto events as seen by the Knock Gauge or similar, as 200Hz in a 2-Stroke equals 12,000 rpm.

Attachment 269008

And here is something if you want to try your hand at making a complete det counter for your self.

Attachment 269011

RS part number 185-6090 $45.30

You could box this along with an amp or frequency filter from Jaycar and make you own little compact det counter.

Attachment 269012

Electrical specs.

Attachment 269014

Two different ways to go, with an amp you would count the high amplitude deto peaks or you could use a band or high pass frequency filter and count whatever passes through it.

More on the TPS thing.

This is an email I sent to Ignitec.

Hi
We have several bikes with Ignitec Sparker DC-CDI-P2 tunable two channel ignitions.
We want to use the TPS function.
We found that a 5K Ohm TPS unit worked OK but a 25K one gave us trouble.
Is a 25K resistance wrong?
What resistance TPS do you recommend?
Thanks

This is their reply.

Hello,
Standard automotive TPS has resistance about 5 kOhm.
25 kOhm is strange. Is it regular automotive TPS ?
Attachment 276981
We recommended to use automotive TPS.
Jiri Krejzl
IGNITECH

It Looks like a (nominal) 5k Ohm TPS is the unit of choice for the Ignitec.

[F5 Dave]

Well I still have ring seal issues on the mb with it piston. Got my tester going and sez 35%leak which is better than the 36 on another meter a while back. Running std yam bits on a freshly honed bore with a few dyno sessions and a couple of races on it. R30 used to help bed in.
No blowby on piston, bore looks better this time.
Ring gap is 0.7 std yam rings are loose. TK one I have is 0.3 but I lost tips off last one I used.
Very strange and must be losing. Heap of power. Bike used to be harder to push start without skidding with YZ100 piston.

i have a torque plate to use when honing next time, but I can't see any light around side of ring when cold.

[wobbly]

1080 total pipe length gave peak closer to 9000, with overev to 11000 + on a VERY ported setup.
But this was gained using an Ignitech to tailor the advance curve, so would not come close with a stock ignition.

[jasonu]

Well I still have ring seal issues on the mb with it piston. Got my tester going and sez 35%leak which is better than the 36 on another meter a while back. .

Keep trying different testers until you find one that gives you a result you like.

[richban]

Rich these are the det sensor posts that I could find.

Cheers Rob

Going for the EU one with the analogue out for the ignitech. Cheapest engine protection there is. Just not sure if I can get away with just one sensor on the V twin. Will give it bash.