ESE's works engine tuner

[Neal]

Attachment 271151 are you sure ? she can be rough on gear

Is this the same chick from the dyno ? One tough chick there !

[husaberg]

Is this the same chick from the dyno ? One tough chick there !

http://www.avalonbiddle.com/2012/03/...inder-of-2012/

I thought I had answered the water temp question.
50* exiting the head is the shit,above that you loose power big time.
The 125 Kart engines run best down at 40*, but use a lot bigger initial bore clearance.

I must have missed it thanks, the other question was calculating radiator size requirements.
i guessed i could just size one of a RS125 and decrease it by in engine capacity so 80% of the area and capacity as a rough guide?
RS125 NF4

350mm x 168mm x 30mm

Brand new, performance aluminum radiator for a Yamaha Raptor YFM660 or YFM660R 2001-05.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=519192715

- Overall (mm): 374H*225W*38T

- Core (mm): 296H*218W*26T
A bit too big but struggling to find anything closer.....

[speedpro]

Duct (duck) tape, it aint hard. Or you could go smaller and fit the radiator into a duct. You could even use it to produce thrust like on spitfires for example, 30lbs in that particular case if I remember. The radiator doesn't have to be at the front.

[bucketracer]

A thread search on "Thrust" brought these two posts up.

Exhaust and cooling air were mixed and dumped overboard over the trailing edge of the wing. It was claimed that 500 pounds of thrust and 20mph resulted from this innovation.

Spitfire used radiators so cleverly designed (in terms of flow through the heat exchanger and the exhaust diffuser) that the underwing radiators generated something like 150 lb's of thrust by themselves.

[FastFred]

http://www.aafo.com/racing/news/98/intrepid.htm

The radiator scoop for the later model P-51’s was well designed. While the scoop caused some profile drag, the heated air exiting the exhaust expanded and created enough thrust to compensate for the drag anytime the air was heated above 170 F. The stock P-51 radiator is large, being 14’ deep and 21" wide by 28" high, and it was sized to cool the engine at 3800 RPM and 55 lbs. of manifold air pressure (MAP). Racers go to 4,000 RPM and 120+lbs. of MAP, so additional cooling is required. Rather than add an even larger radiator, racers added cooling water spray bars in front of the radiator to accomplish the same thing. Spraying cooling water onto the P-51 radiator is necessary but reduces the thrust created in the exhaust because it also cools the air, decreasing hot air expansion.



The question for Hal was how to turn this disadvantage into an advantage. By looking at the picture below you will see Mr. Dantone’s design which answers that question. It both reduces profile drag and in theory will produce a considerable amount of thrust. In summary, it takes the heat and momentum of the engine exhaust and applies it behind the radiator to turn the cooling water into steam, creating a large amount of thrust in the augmenter tube in an effect similar to that of a jet afterburner: a steam afterburner . The term "Steam Afterburner" may be an oxymoron, but it creates the right image. Cooling water enters the augmenter tube and is flashed to steam by the engine exhaust causing it to expand and create thrust much like fuel which is pumped into the afterburner of a jet engine where the heat of the exhaust burns it causing expansion and thrust. As Hal describes it, "The idea is to take the typical radiator design, streamline its flows aerodynamically, and combine it with an augmenter tube similar to the one used on the Convair 440." The radiator is in the bottom of the fuselage directly behind an opening with only a small adjustable scoop that can be opened into the airstream. Inside the scoop are two spray bars to spray cooling water onto the front of the radiator. Behind the radiator, an augmenter tube flows straight back to the tail. Just behind the radiator, the hot, high velocity engine exhaust is emptied into the augmenter tube causing a vacuum by venturi effect: the higher the engine RPM, the stronger the vacuum. That vacuum pulls air into and through the radiator without the need for a scoop. Without the P-51 style scoop, there is less profile drag. Hal goes on to explain that "while the necessity for a scoop is eliminated, there is the probability that some amount of scoop will be beneficial by creating a type of subsonic ramjet effect. An adjustable scoop of about 8"opening 30 will be used so that
a) maximum thrust through ramjet effect can be obtained while racing, and
b) adequate cooling can be obtained at cruise power settings" .

The hot, high velocity engine exhaust (at 1500 - 1700 F) mixes with the air coming through the radiator, heating it and causing it to expand thus creating thrust in a manner similar to the P-51 exhaust, but with much stronger thrust due to the hotter temperature. Note that this will produce more thrust than the P-51 radiator even before the introduction of cooling water. Of greatest import, the engine exhaust also mixes with the cooling spray water, turning it into steam and creating what could be a "significant" amount of thrust. This extra thrust is essentially free since the engine exhaust is otherwise discharged to the airstream and the water must be used to cool the radiator. Mr. Dantone also explained that "sizing the exhaust, augmenter tube and exhaust nozzle to obtain the maximum thrust is very important. It could be done mathematically, but modeling is more accurate and dependable. A professor in the Aerospace Engineering Department at Texas A&M University has assigned this problem as a project to two graduate students to build a model and find the optimum sizes: their assistance is invaluable and greatly appreciated. When they complete this study, the predicted thrust from this steam afterburner will be accurately calculated and published".

Jet engines with afterburners optimize thrust with exhaust nozzles that constrict the area of the exhaust thus increasing the velocity of the flow and the thrust created. The augmenter tube will be approximately rectangular in shape so that the aft portions of the side walls can be made into adjustable flaps to perform this nozzle function. Note that the end of Intrepid’s fuselage (ref. to the 3D rendering) is an opening rather than coming to the traditional closed point. This is the exhaust opening, and the flapper valve nozzles are on each side.

[wobbly]

No such thing as a rad thats too big.
If it fits into the chassis space then use it.
Add a bypass thermostat and it will control the temp at 50* all day, no matter what the air temp is.
No need for tape, or worry if it gets real hot during a race meeting.

[Ocean1]

The radiator scoop for the later model P-51’s was well designed.

Cheers, good read. Always worried me, throwing away all that heat energy with the exhaust. Wonder if the mass of the water would make it worthwhile for buckets. Might at least make racing in the rain a competitive advantage...

[husaberg]

No such thing as a rad thats too big.
If it fits into the chassis space then use it.
Add a bypass thermostat and it will control the temp at 50* all day, no matter what the air temp is.
No need for tape, or worry if it gets real hot during a race meeting.

yes we had a little play a while back and came up with this stuff i guess the rover one might be able to be made to work (with a suitable thermostat but probably not worth the effort.
The pic you display is not the Guhl one though is it?

Found this for RS125 and similar. But from memory some bikes ahad a remote theromsats (VT i think) and probably lots of cars as well. But then again you don't want to do the thermostat route. I suppose.

http://www.rscycles.com/images/thermostat/therm_guhl.htm

The Guhl bypass thermos are great, I used one on my RS125 when I was racing that, never bothered pissing around with tape again, but at around $250NZ to get one its bloody expensive in terms of buckets!
If you can find a 55-60 degree thermo stat you could make one pretty easy though, I think aprillia RS125s thermostats are at around that temp.

Attachment 252990 Attachment 252991
My guess the temp is in deg F and 130 F is about 54 C

snooping around I found these Rover stuff.
Pressure Relief Remote Thermostat
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A Pressure Relief Remote Thermostat (PRRT), or sometimes just PRT, is used to increase the amount of coolant flowing around the engine. The PRRT has a bypass valve opening when the coolant pump is flowing too much coolant for the radiator circuit. This valve is reducing pressure difference inside the whole circuit, achieving at the same time a more constant temperature inside the engine.
Note: The acronym PRT means Pressure Relief Thermostat. This setup was developed by Bill Hutchins and used by Rover, MG and Landrover, it has been in use in mid engined cars for 25 years, and an Elise system was previously developed by Simon Scuffham when racing his k-series engined elise. PRRT is actually a misnomer (albeit harmless), allegedly invented by one of the members of the Seloc forum. The PRRT acronym may not actually be recognised by anyone outside of the Seloc forum (including anyone involved in the design, manufacture or assembly of the device) though is perhaps a more accurate description as the second R refers to remote.

remote stat with by-pass BMW/Rover SD1 2600/etc
http://www.mgfcar.de/thermostat/Water_System_Mods.htm

Hello
I use this, works great.
http://www.hvg-engineering.com/index...id=127&lang=NL

Compare two cooling systems, A and B. In system B the water flows three times as fast and picks up only half the amount of heat per liter, compared to system A.
Then system B removes 50% more heat than system A! And provided your piston clearance is OK, you just cannot have too much cooling. In the Aprilia RSA125 the water pump circulates 160 liter per minute. That is 3 liter per HP per minute!

Nowadays we have a fine solution for avoiding corrosion; it's called plastic. Saves weight too.

I don't know exactly how the NZ dollar is doing, but that sum will probably buy you two of these:
http://www.hvg-engineering.com/index...id=127&lang=NL

Core height Core width Core depth Model

254mm 98mm 40mm Honda cr85
215mm 118mm 40mm crf250
235mm 128mm 40mm crf450
235mm 118mm 40mm crf450 09-12
217mm 118mm 40mm KX250F 06-08
252mm 110mm 36mm KTM various
270mm 118mm 40mm DRZ400 07-09
216mm 128mm 40mm RMZ450
218mm 108mm 40mm YZF250f 03-06
236mm 118mm 40mm YZF450/426 00-05
sizes for single side should be the one with the filler but was in a hurry
http://www.mishimoto.com/kawasaki-ra...wersports.html

of course the car boys now V mount the intercoolers and rads so....

[wobbly]

Na, the Guhls are stupid price, I made a stack of them.
Available in all colours as long as its staggeringly excellent red anodise for 150 NZ notes ex stock.
The pic is another Aprilia with RZ410 Athena kit for road bike I have nearly finished.

[dmcca]

KTM offroad bikes have a 55* thermostat with bypass... They can be had very cheap on eBay as its common to remove them and fit fully sikkkk colored silicon hoses for extra awesomeness.

[quallman1234]

No such thing as a rad thats too big.
If it fits into the chassis space then use it.
Add a bypass thermostat and it will control the temp at 50* all day, no matter what the air temp is.
No need for tape, or worry if it gets real hot during a race meeting.

I have a bypass thermostat on my RS125, have had it for a few years. Has been bloody fantastic! Zero issues with it and keeps the temp at 55* without thinking about and saves the hassles off duct tape strips! Do it get one.

[bucketracer]

Is this the same chick from the dyno ? One tough chick there !

Yess ...



Chasing Av at HD

[husaberg]

KTM offroad bikes have a 55* thermostat with bypass... They can be had very cheap on eBay as its common to remove them and fit fully sikkkk colored silicon hoses for extra awesomeness.

Thanks they seem to start around 2000 on, with the 4 smokes



Wobs look nice, Do they also come in red
The one Frits and C_Wolf posted only weigh 78gms.


MZ
Below some old 2 stroke interestingly the same thing that was done to the ignition, was also done by JAP on the Speedway bikes in a last ditch effort to stay competitive (in this case in effort to lower parasitic losses) I must admit i never actually considered how much hp , those wasted spark 4 strokes set ups cost. Actually wasn't the LC250/350 wasted spark as well?

[wax]

I have one but its inline. Im not really sure how its going to open with no water movement due to it being closed. I Like the bypass setup alot more
It looks like this so its not a bypass

[Frits Overmars]

No such thing as a rad thats too big. If it fits into the chassis space then use it. Add a bypass thermostat and it will control the temp at 50* all day, no matter what the air temp is. No need for tape, or worry if it gets real hot during a race meeting.

Amen to that.