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Thread: ESE's works engine tuner

  1. #23851
    Join Date
    22nd November 2013 - 16:32
    Bike
    STRIKE trike & KTM300 EXC TPI
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
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    878
    After the last quick and dirty seal friction test, which was pretty rudimentary, I thought that we’d do better. So, turned up a bit of Delrin with a seal in both ends. This was slid over a length of stock chrome & ground Ø20 bar. This had been drilled so the inside cavity between the two seals could be pressurised. This was done using a diaphragm carb pressure tester. It was tested at atmospheric pressure and then 8 psi (sorry about the units). As you can see it was again a static test. Well almost static, as we based the torque required on its ability to break static friction and just lightly rotate. Shaft was well covered in oil prior to assembly.

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    So, any thoughts on the results? Just the percentage difference in torque between atmospheric pressure and 8 psi (which is probably a bit above actual crankcase peak +ve pressures). Was it double or halved or the same or whatevered......?
    No prizes though, as Australia is going through a financial crisis.

  2. #23852
    Join Date
    4th June 2013 - 10:03
    Bike
    2010, specialised bike
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    289
    About 54% higher?

  3. #23853
    Join Date
    20th April 2011 - 08:45
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    none
    Location
    Raalte, Netherlands
    Posts
    3,341
    Quote Originally Posted by ken seeber View Post
    It was tested at atmospheric pressure and then 8 psi (sorry about the units).
    At least you're aware of this hundredweight-furlong-fortnight foolishness instead of our civilized kilogram-meter-second units, so you're forgiven, Ken.

    As you can see it was again a static test. Well almost static, as we based the torque required on its ability to break static friction and just lightly rotate.
    You could give the shaft a slight vibration with a violin bow.

    EDIT: the weight pulling on the circumference of the Delrin part is also loading the seals, so in principle you should put a central bearing in that will take the weight away from the seals. Or, the larger you make the Delrin part diameter, the less weight will be required to create the necessary torque.

    EDIT 2: never mind me and my bright ideas. Of course you could increase the diameter until the necessary weight approaches zero, but then the weight of the Delrin itself approaches infinity .

  4. #23854
    Join Date
    26th June 2005 - 21:11
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    Honda NSR300 track hack
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    Pukerua Bay
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    4,089
    Hmmmm two seals just over 0.55 bar i'm going to go with 110%


  5. #23855
    Join Date
    23rd September 2014 - 19:35
    Bike
    Peugeot spx
    Location
    Norway
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    602
    Thumbs up for performing the tests!
    200% from me, go high or go home!

  6. #23856
    Join Date
    8th February 2007 - 20:42
    Bike
    TZ400
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    tAURANGA
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    3,885
    The static lip seal friction I would have thought to be less than 1/3 of the pressurized value.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  7. #23857
    Join Date
    5th January 2013 - 13:23
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    89 KX500
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    USA
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    68
    Then do the same test with a few inches (sorry Frits) of vacuum. A worn seal will sometimes test OK under pressure. Vacuum changes the dynamic. Put a flowmeter between the test piece and the vacuum gauge. It's interesting to see how much depression it takes to overcome the seal.

  8. #23858
    Join Date
    13th June 2013 - 02:50
    Bike
    1998 Yamaha TZ125
    Location
    Sverige
    Posts
    4
    I have a Tz125 97/98 with cylinders from Bartol. Some of the pipes are stamped with MZB.
    Wobbly do you have anything to do with the pipes or know who MZB is?

    /Christer

  9. #23859
    Join Date
    7th December 2013 - 00:25
    Bike
    Yamaha's
    Location
    Hellas
    Posts
    41
    Hey guys,
    I have a problem,trying to set up ignitech on a wr200 engine(tuned).
    What I want to know is what feels like when the bike is over advanced and what when advance is too low.
    What I feel from the bike on the road,is like it can't release it's full potential power,and from 9500 power is dropping off,at 10000 the bike is dead like it has a rev-limiter there.
    And in some cases it is not hitting the power band at all and it's having momential blackouts.
    Advance is 25* maximum,14* at 9000 and 11* at 10500.
    I'm pretty sure this is not fuel problem,but electrical.
    Please answer me as soon as possible,
    Cheers

  10. #23860
    Join Date
    25th March 2004 - 17:22
    Bike
    RZ496/Street 765RS/GasGas/ etc etc
    Location
    Wellington. . ok the hutt
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    20,500
    Blog Entries
    2
    Straight line 15deg and check static timing is right. Also it should run smoothly like that if somewhat weak at lower revs, but that confirms if its not fueling, check battery voltage while you run it up.
    Don't you look at my accountant.
    He's the only one I've got.

  11. #23861
    Join Date
    8th February 2007 - 20:42
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    TZ400
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    tAURANGA
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    3,885
    Dave is right.The WR200 will time at 1.18mm for 15*,so set the piston there and mark the rotor and stator
    in an easily seen position.
    Strobe it with a 15* straight line program and check that the base timing is correct.
    But depending upon the mods, too much advance will kill overev power dead.
    Easy way to check what it likes , once the base timing is verified, is to add say 3* of base - this will retard the whole curve 3* from "actual ".
    If it then revs better, you know what to do with the curve.
    Then of course if the egt drops in the upper rpm, you have too much advance or com for the fuel, and deto is just around the corner.

    MZB is a huge parts supplier, mainly for scooters, but no I have not done any designs for them.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  12. #23862
    Join Date
    8th February 2007 - 20:42
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    TZ400
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    tAURANGA
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    3,885
    I know this isnt the correct forum for this but a bunch of people on here wanted a bypass thermostat urgently.
    They are done, and I have a few not going to be anodised.
    If you want one send me a PM with delivery info.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  13. #23863
    Join Date
    13th October 2016 - 17:41
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    Yours eh, ka pai.
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    Tangata te Maori
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    247

    So, bullshit, or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by F5 Dave View Post
    No solenoid, and really? Better than a Keihin? A dirty mikuni?

    No one seems to have taken on Smartcarb.
    This: https://technologyelevatedco.com

  14. #23864
    Join Date
    12th March 2010 - 16:56
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    TT500 F9 Kawasaki EFI
    Location
    Hamilton New Zealand
    Posts
    2,764
    Quote Originally Posted by Hemi Makutu View Post
    Just another carburetor, same shirt different day.

  15. #23865
    Join Date
    13th June 2013 - 02:50
    Bike
    1998 Yamaha TZ125
    Location
    Sverige
    Posts
    4
    Wobbly, do you have some more stories to tell about Bartols work with Yamaha regarding the tz125 and tz250.

    /Christer

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