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Thread: ESE's works engine tuner

  1. #23116
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    12th May 2011 - 23:52
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny quest View Post
    What Ga are the titanium GP 2 stroke pipes made of? And what Ti material?

    Can they be welded in atmosphere with just a longer leading cup?
    0.8mm Commercialy Pure CP. You can weld them any way you want more about if they crack to pieces in use. Blue is OK straw colour is bad.
    GP pipes must have been made with some orbital tig set up, unless there are dead set genius' that can weld a entire pipe with every join in 1 pass. Frits might have looked over Sam Balders shoulder while he made a pipe

  2. #23117
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    20th April 2011 - 08:45
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny quest View Post
    What Ga are the titanium GP 2 stroke pipes made of? And what Ti material? Can they be welded in atmosphere with just a longer leading cup?
    Here you go Jonny.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2T Institute View Post
    0.8mm Commercialy Pure CP. You can weld them any way you want more about if they crack to pieces in use. Blue is OK straw colour is bad. GP pipes must have been made with some orbital tig set up, unless there are dead set genius' that can weld a entire pipe with every join in 1 pass. Frits might have looked over Sam Balders shoulder while he made a pipe
    You got most of it right, 2T Institute. Except, it says .024 on the sheet. That's 0,6 mm, not 0,8.
    And yes, I did look over Sam Balders shoulder while he was working on a batch of Aprilia works pipes. They were welded in a gas chamber.

  3. #23118
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    8th February 2007 - 20:42
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    The sheet of Ti that pic of the material spec was taken off is still on the floor of my workshop.
    Best way to weld it is in a chamber as Frits said, but thats a real bitch to handle.
    The Jap factories used that method with a large motorized 3 jaw built into the floor to enable easy rotation and fusion with no filler rod.
    You can weld it with a big gas lens, but you HAVE to back purge the inside or it will oxidize the inner weld surface and crack immediately.
    The prototype Ti pipes I did for a couple of 500GP teams had 0.024" headers and tailcones with 0.032" for the rest.
    This setup recovers more evenly the heat lost on the overun into corners, and as it also heats up quicker it makes top end faster as well.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  4. #23119
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    4th August 2007 - 17:55
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    Well we are talking about pipes!


    So I have this little 125 Cagiva Raptor I ride to work and back. Its winter here and has been rather wet of late. The other night coming home from work it was pissing down, really pissing down. Happy in my Gortex rain gear I set off for home. Wanting this annoying ride out of the way I thought I should be riding the bike on the pipe as it always likes. Well it just would not do it. Riding along in the pissing rain wondering what was wrong with my poor little commuter the only thing I could think of was the water was taking so much heat out of the heavy steel pipe that it just could not work.

    On the other side. The last race meeting on the 300 was wet. Man it really went well with a bit of water getting sucked down the open carbs. And the pipes tucked nicely inside the belly pan.

    So the simple lesson from all this, is keep your carbs cool and yah pipes hot. The pipes hot in the wet is of importance to the bucket races for sure. With pipes hanging in the wind aka rain the temp changes could be huge.

    Please correct my science if I am wrong.

  5. #23120
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    5th April 2013 - 13:09
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    There's a product called Solar Flux I used for SS. it's a paste that when applied to the inside of tubing, when heated provided a shielding gas.

    Nothing like this for Ti?

  6. #23121
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    I tried a paste flux on the back of SS and Ti pipes, but found it was a complete bastard to clean off afterwards - especially down inside larger length cones.
    The back purged weld seams are perfect immediately, and dont need any after working at all.
    And as both Ti and SS are a bastard metal to work with anyway, anything that speeds up the process is money in the bank.
    The good thing is that both Ti and SS welded with tig look much better than gas does - unlike the gorgeous welds I can do with gas on Mild steel, that look way better
    than anything I can do with the way faster and cheaper argon/tig method.
    For any sort of production/GP work, cold wire over tig is the only way to go - see the pic.
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    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  7. #23122
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    22nd November 2013 - 16:32
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    Wob, beautiful.
    Now, what's the go with the obviously intentional extended welds, beyond the weldment? To avoid possible cracking emanating from the end of the junction?

  8. #23123
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    wob regarding the inflow at TPC. would that be at full noise on the pipe? surely off the pipe inflow may not start until much later ?

  9. #23124
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    Yes Ken, the extended weld bead stops cracks starting in the corners that are natural stress raisers otherwise.
    Yes Peewee, I only have a mass flow readout for 8000 rpm for that engine ( just coming onto the pipe ) and it does start inflow later - but not a hell of a lot.
    At that rpm the intake length wave tuning is out of sync with the case depression, giving rise to the big changes in inflow - as the reed see's very different
    pressure ratios occurring on each side of the petals as they start to lift off the seat.
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    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  10. #23125
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    I went to Emex a couple of weeks ago and went to a few seminars about 3D printing.
    Last night I had a dream about titanium printed pipe.
    Don't you look at my accountant.
    He's the only one I've got.

  11. #23126
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjbw View Post
    In mid sixties I watched the Yamaha mechanics prepare engines for the Ulster Grand Prix.

    It looked like the cylinders had a steel sleeve. I didn't notice any plating. Using a junior hacksaw
    they removed part of the sleeve, about 10 x 3mm, adjacent to transfer port.
    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    Sounds like the TD1C gully port.
    pic to follow.
    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    Gully port diagram plus apicture of the real thing
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  12. #23127
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    Rion Janssen's cylinder work

    I think there might be a freetech 50 build in my future and the KTM SX 50 engine might be the way I go. The cylinders look pretty nicely made! Naturally, Rion Janssen's cylinder work caught my eye on Facebook. He's from Barcelona, Spain and works under JTMX Racing.
    He gave me permission to post some photos of his work here and I've help him set up an account here so hopefully we can get some commentary on what he's been doing and his results.

    More photos here: Album link

    I might be looking in the wrong places but I don't see to much discussion on the KTM 50 engines. If anyone has any other helpful links, post them up!


    Rion3 by Chris Cain, on Flickr


    Rion4 by Chris Cain, on Flickr


    Rion5 by Chris Cain, on Flickr


    Rion7 by Chris Cain, on Flickr


    Rion1 by Chris Cain, on Flickr

  13. #23128
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    I have worked on a few old 50cc Mopeds and allways was sad that there was not a single cylinder which fitted my needs - this is the first state of the art 50ccm cylinder ever made.
    It has some issues (to big exhaust at the flange, auxilaries designed to suit the 65SX Rave) but I can't wait to work on it
    Click image for larger version. 

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  14. #23129
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    21st March 2014 - 22:00
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    Exhaust Port Radius on Top

    As I'm going to setup a new set of barrels I want to do the small radius on the top of the ex port. Is approx. 2 mm too less or in the right ball park and the aux port can also get a small radius, right?

  15. #23130
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    1st March 2011 - 19:15
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    [QUOTE=chrisc;1130983787]I think there might be a freetech 50 build in my future and the KTM SX 50 engine might be the way I go. The cylinders look pretty nicely made! Naturally, Rion Janssen's cylinder work caught my eye on Facebook. He's from Barcelona, Spain and works under JTMX Racing.
    He gave me permission to post some photos of his work here and I've help him set up an account here so hopefully we can get some commentary on what he's been doing and his results.

    More photos here: Album link

    I might be looking in the wrong places but I don't see to much discussion on the KTM 50 engines. If anyone has any other helpful links, post them up!

    sorry TZ, fast fred

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