ESE's works engine tuner

[TZ350]

Follow the link below for the back story on the 6 speed water cooled 32hp Suzuki GP100 build.

The crank is getting a 22mm bigend pin for a 115mm RD400 long rod.

Attachment 316268 Attachment 316269

Original 100cc Suzuki GP motor being fitted with a re-plated (re-bored) NSR MC21 cylinder.

Spent a happy afternoon checking out the balance of the new 48mm stroke NSR GP110 crank and the NSR cylinder port STA's with the 48mm crank.



The crank overall is 12mm wider than a standard GP crank. After setting the crank up and working out the balance weights required for a BF of 50%. I found the Mallory slugs that were fitted to be to heavy but this is good news because I can now keep skimming the inside faces of the crank halves until it comes right. In the end there will be plenty of volume between the crank webs.



Checking out the timing, things worked out much better than I could have hoped for.

With a 15mm spacer the Exhaust is opening at 80 deg ATDC and Transfers at 118 ATDC and the piston just clearing the port floor at BDC.



The deck height is -5.7mm for 0.8mm squish. This all matches the optimum STA's worked out with EngMod2T for this project.



A 15mm cylinder spacer/adapter plate brings the port timing into perfect alignment. (with 115mm RD400 rod, 2010 RM125 piston, 48mm stroke).

Not bad, a 54mm stroke cylinder fitted to a 48mm stroke motor and the timing works out perfectly.

Great, up until now it was all on faith and a belief that I could overcome any problems with the idea, but now I know it really is going to work.

[peewee]

I'm an old, dumb welder with a useless liberal arts degree, and can't do the detailed technical speculations that you smart guys offer on the Ryger, so I have to ask this. In googling terms like "detonation-ignition" and "HCCI SCCI," I get a lot of four-stroke and turbine engine discussion on it that still doesn't give me answers I want (or maybe it does and I just don't get it). So, can you tell me, 1) Would making an engine detonate by-design be the way to get around the fixed burn-rate limitations and allow sky-high rpm levels? 2) Wouldn't you have to light off the detonation in a closely-timed manner, something other than, say, a glow-plug, and if so, how (microwave ignition?)? 3) How do you build a lightweight aluminum engine that will live under shocks that will break up, among other things, the ceramic insulator on a sparkplug, which is a pretty hardy substance? If this is feasible, might the answer to this also be the answer to how rotating/reciprocating parts aren't flying apart at the sky-high rpms?

I get that HCCI is an auto-ignition process, as in diesels; wouldn't this have a little too much timing "scatter" if used with a non-uniform fuel such as gasoline? As to the Ryger, since Frits tells us it uses an ordinary carburetor as the fuel/air mixer, it can't be auto-igniting injected fuel in the manner of a diesel. IF this engine auto-ignites the fuel/air charge, does the combustion chamber shape dictate where the charge ignites, or does it all ignite at once, and if so, is that detonation? People who supposedly knew used to talk about detonation as a product of "colliding flame-fronts." I was always skeptical of this. In my remote youth I got to do a little work on Unlimited hydroplanes powered by big V-12 fighter plane engines from WW2. Four-valve heads, and dual plugs, dual ignition, and these two plugs were located at opposite edges of the combustion chamber; talk about your "colliding flame-fronts," these engines should have been detonating all the time, but no, they did not. Seems to me if flame fronts "collide" the only thing that happens is that the fuel has all been burned and the fires go out. Yes? No?

just today frits said it had a standard vm head. theres also a spark plug so it must have some dependance on spark ignition. if its able to run under its own power in HCCI mode then there must be some way to vary the compression ratio i would think. we've had only one photo that i recall so it hard to say exactly how it all works. pretty sure theres a air pump somewhere, likely just out of camera view

[adegnes]

Have you employed some top secret alien technology with the exhaust connected to the a-transfers or is it just the picture?

[TZ350]

No ... its an optical illusion, its a small black mark left by the power valve, looks much deeper than it actually is.

[casal-fan]

just today frits said it had a standard vm head. theres also a spark plug so it must have some dependance on spark ignition. if its able to run under its own power in HCCI mode then there must be some way to vary the compression ratio i would think. we've had only one photo that i recall so it hard to say exactly how it all works. pretty sure theres a air pump somewhere, likely just out of camera view

Or maybe cylinder filling kan be kept more or less constant within a wide rpm range.
Perhaps there is a big surprise waiting on how the Ryger engine uses the exhaust chamber.
The conventional 2stroke engine takes advantage from exhaust pulses over a relatively limited rpm range, but exhaust pulses are always there.
Amazing discussion on this epic thread... by the time Ryger engine technology becomes public, there is perhaps a good chance it all has been uncovered here, as long as the "hints" keep coming

[Bert]

Follow the link below for the back story on the 6 speed water cooled 32hp Suzuki GP100 build.



Spent a happy afternoon checking out the balance of the new 48mm stroke NSR GP110 crank and the NSR cylinder port STA's with the 48mm crank.



The crank overall is 12mm wider than a standard GP crank. After setting the crank up and working out the balance weights required for a BF of 50%. I found the Mallory slugs that were fitted to be to heavy but this is good news because I can now keep skimming the inside faces of the crank halves until it comes right. In the end there will be plenty of volume between the crank webs.



Checking out the timing, things worked out much better than I could have hoped for.

With a 15mm spacer the Exhaust is opening at 80 deg ATDC and Transfers at 118 ATDC and the piston just clearing the port floor at BDC.

The deck height is -5.7mm for 0.8mm squish. This all matches the optimum STA's worked out with EngMod2T for this project.



A 15mm cylinder spacer/adapter plate brings the port timing into perfect alignment. (with 115mm RD400 rod, 2010 RM125 piston).

Not bad, a 54mm stroke cylinder fitted to a 48mm stroke motor and the timing works out perfectly.

Great, up until now it was all on faith and a belief that I could overcome any problems with the idea, but now I know it really is going to work.

Looks really good Rob..
The achieved durations are a good effort (I thought they would be larger).
Shows how much potential there is with these NSR barrels...
Another cool build (much like Scottys and speedpros RGV TFs & the RG Kawasakis).

[yesyes]

I think there is a major difference between what we can call a detonation and the combustion of all the fresh charge at once.
Détonation means shock wave impossible to use for mecanical purpose, apart for blowing up the engine.
combustion of all the fresh charge at once does not produce a shock wave, just a sharp and quick increase of usable pressure.

[Norman]

I measured the total transfer channels volume in a RGV250 cylinder. It's about 65 cc. If we add some volume in the spacer plate transfers, and after the inlet reeds, there should not be more volume than permitting the piston to act as a compressor? If there is a reed valve function in the transfers, the negative pulse from the pipe should create a rather low pressure under the piston at some time, but not allow at any time to send back a pressure higher than below the piston and spacer transfers. A relatively high pressure difference between under the piston and before the inlet reed valve would speed up the mix speed into the engine and fill it up more quickly. I am thinking that a cut off between under the piston volume and the inlet reed would create a low pressure zone adding to the speed and strenght of theunder piston/spacer transfer filling. Then we have the primary compression as the piston is descending that will set the transfers under boost pressure, ready for a fast push of mixture into the cylinder. The pipe is then pushing escaping mixture and some exhaust back (EGR type of function?) keeping it all in the cylinder but some in the transfers, until exhaust port closing. Pipe is designed to hold a positive pressure at the exhaust for a wider rpm range? Maybe this has already been discussed earlier in this thread..Hm..?

[G10]

Ryger idea, see if this will work. Weld a piston on top of a piston to create a chamber. Put 6 windows in the upper piston skirt. 5 windows for the transfer ports and 1 window to the exhaust. Now all that's left is to figure out the size and timing of all the windows, the size, length and volume of the exhaust duct, and the volume of the upper chamber. The exhaust pulses pump this chamber. Maybe some one already posted this idea and I missed it.

I'm guessing the Ryger piston is very long, say 90 mm with the wrist pin near the bottom, and sealed off right above the wrist pin boss to create a separate chamber inside the upper piston.

[Haufen]

When rygerizing ones engine, will it be possible to do the performance mod only, whilst maintaining conventional lubrication of the crank by mixture, Frits?

[breezy]

Your philosophies about the Ryger engine make it very tempting for me to react. Alas, I still am not allowed to. But I can't resist re-posting this picture:
Attachment 316277
I bet you wish that you could push that piston further down. But what would you see? Let me tell you: nothing out of the ordinary.
Even with the piston at BDC you would not notice that it is a Ryger engine...

Frits, all those holes around the top of the cylinder, just water jacket? i just had to ask...

[MotleyCrue]

Any 2 stroke with lousy porting has a lot of exhaust gas left in the cylinder because it cant clear it out properly, yet none of these engines make any decent power and they dont seem to have HCCI combustion or anything out of the ordinary. They run lousy. I cant see this fantastic Ryger combustion being due to just leaving exhaust gas in the cylinder, there must be more to it than that.

Further its been awhile since I read it but I dont think the Honda Activated Radical Combustion made any power improvement it was just economy wasnt it ?

Maybe the Ryger has a hot spot in the head or maybe the whole head is a hot spot so once it is hot enough it lights the mixture just like an RC engine does. RC engines do rev awfully high.

[JdG]

What if (due to very high crankcase compression) the fresh mixture enters the cylinder violently and mixes homogeneously with the residual exhaust gas?

Maybe (I'm no combustion expert) if this mixture stays very turbulent during compression, combustion can be very fast and the residual exhaust gasses containing some unburnt products get an extra burn, giving cleaner exhaust gasses.

I'm just thinking out loud here...

[breezy]

Oops, what have we here? Finally found the camera. Hard chrome tube is 22mm Dia, ( OK it's 7/8" ), 2.1mm wall.
Top end is so secret, I don't even know what it looks like.

i expect you have already spun this crank set up with something attached externally?, obviously not under load. how did it go? (you may have posted these findings previously, sorry to ask again ) in reality i expect if its good enough for 17500-20000 rpm it would be job done

[MotleyCrue]

What if (due to very high crankcase compression) the fresh mixture enters the cylinder violently and mixes homogeneously with the residual exhaust gas?

Maybe (I'm no combustion expert) if this mixture stays very turbulent during compression, combustion can be very fast and the residual exhaust gasses containing some unburnt products get an extra burn, giving cleaner exhaust gasses.

I'm just thinking out loud here...

But wouldnt there be great turbulence in any normal 2 stroke due to the flow in the exhaust port slamming mixture into the cylinder after the transfer has closed and before the exhaust has closed ? 2 strokes only run 15 or less for timing with a full cylinder even forgetting about squeezing out the last bit by retarding the timing for pipe heat. But on a similar bore 4 stroke the timing is a lot more than 15 degrees more like 30+ with a full cylinder at high revs.

But looking at what i just wrote maybe you are right, maybe its just more of the same thing that separates a 2 stroke from a 4 stroke combustion, more turbulence, more exhaust, more heat. If conditions improve and the right timing gets less and less then it is at least very quick to combust and maybe even starts combusting on its own.


Thinking some more maybe retarding the timing to a crazy amount would just force a ton of heat into the exhaust residual for the next cycle and after a few cycles combustion would just happen all on its own or at least very fast, some amount after TDC. The more it was retarded the quicker the heat would come in and the sooner the engine would go from a dog to fantastic. Maybe thats why on the video the engine sounds odd then all of a sudden hits full song. I think I'll go with that.

Running extra lean or extra rich might help get this going too, I'm thinking lean.