ESE's works engine tuner

[wobbly]

Yea, sorry Frits,good someone is on his feet - of course, the header is out the front on the RSA.
Be interesting to see how a kart engine layout would work with the carb out the front.
Probably quite well now that the carbs are all pointing downward,and the whole engine could be rotated down at the front even more in a bike.
And as for clean burning 4Ts in racing, yea right,the tdc overlap numbers needed to generate 250 odd Hp in a 1000cc MotoGP engine
means plenty of hydrocarbons are floating around Mugello,as well as the oil smoke from Rossi's shitter.

[seymour14]

just some clean burning 4 strokes would be the way

Cleaner emissions then what you would suck out of a wobblybong...

[wobbly]

I put single malt into my bong - so yea plenty of emissions there.

[seymour14]

I put single malt into my bong - so yea plenty of emissions there.

Now ya talking, must try one sometime!

[chrisc]

just some clean burning 4 strokes would be the way

Yuck. Sounds good to me though, lets race. My outdated, slow, stock NX4 chewed up the IM on Hampton's straight despite Dave throwing massive stabs at me every lap
Let's not bring moto3's into the discussion now

[mr bucketracer]

Yuck. Sounds good to me though, lets race. My outdated, slow, stock NX4 chewed up the IM on Hampton's straight despite Dave throwing massive stabs at me every lap
Let's not bring moto3's into the discussion now

just want to boost the class , oh well guys do live in the past (-: , back to project x me thinks , have to say my 550 svx aprilia has nealy sent me to the grave , building a 2 stroke seemed way easyer

[TZ350]

Page 1530 ......

Searching the ESE thread.

Searching the forum with google custom search, it even shows pictures

https://cse.google.com/cse/publicurl...90:5pd9xdluxce

Knock Gauge

Here is the link to the knock gauge - you can order with a grounding output to trigger an Ignitech retard function and/or
a 0-5V output for a datalogger.
This really is the best thing since sliced bread.
Its cheap,and works perfectly.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Knock-gauge-for-detonation-sensor-klopfsensor-NEW-with-output-/111623836064

If you adjust the sensitivity so that the pre deto light just flickers occasionally when under hard full load acceleration, then you know for sure
that as soon as a real "knock " event occurs the deto led will light up instantly.

Hey wob, I've got a problem with knock gauge here.
I bought it from ebay and I bought a Bosch knock sensor for Peugeot or Citroen.
Yesterday I wired it up and tested it. When I give 12V to it one or two green lights give a strong flash and after a moment only one green light is on.I tried to hit with a plastic hammer but nothing changer,not even 2nd green light flashed. I tried to change the sensivity but nothing changes.

Installed mine last week. Bosch nr 0 261 231188. Hitting it with something plastic doesn't work. Needs to be metal (gently tapping the bolt with a spanner works for me).

One green led tells you its running, and yes if you tap the mounting bolt with a steel hammer another couple of lights should flash.
A firm crack from the hammer will show the deto led.Actual deto is just like hitting the piston with a steel hammer - this is why the head or cylinder nuts can be loosened when it happens.

You can adjust the sensitivity with the engine running so that under acceleration all the lights flicker except the deto led.

The 0-5V output works real well on a datalogger,as I can read the voltage level to the point of seeing a few 5V spikes with every speedshifted gearchange - so anything approaching real deto at any rpm/throttle position is dead obvious.

RS125

I may be misreading things, but it seems to me that the 125GP class in NZ is dying a slow death due to the increasing cost and difficulty of maintaining the engine of the only competitive unit, the RS125, long since abandoned by Honda in any useful context.

There appear to be no foul-strokes that can make the grade, even given their huge capacity advantage under the current MNZ rules, and no competitive 2-stroke alternatives are jumping out of the woodwork.

As far as I know, the only 125 2T left in current manufacture is the KTM SX125. I'm wondering, would it be possible to coax the 45 or so HP required to make this engine a viable substitute for the RS125 if developed sufficiently and shoe-horned into the RS frame?

If a 2T substitute is not found soon, I can see corrupt FIM legislation will eventually trickle down to NZ and we'll be stuck with a poxy 4T class, inevitably of 250cc and dominated by Honda.
Are there any competitive kart engines that could be modified to fit the RS frame? Opinions?

There used to be a class in karting here called 125 National.
We won 3 titles in a row and still have the lap records at every track we raced using a TM125MX engine.
This was ( is ) way cheap to maintain, REAL easy to tune,and if you wanted to get smart all the ratios from the other TM kart engines will fit.
That engine ended up with 50.2 Hp,at the sprocket on Avgas ( 10 years ago,I would get way more now ) and as the PV was converted to be driven by a cable servo, it had WAY
more power down at 10,000 than any RS125 ( our main competition ).
The problem with the dedicated kart engines is that the carb is out the front, but having the pipe under the seat is an advantage power wise.
Its common knowledge that the Aprilia RSA125 didnt handle as well as the RSW125 due to the engine having to be moved back away from the front tyre to increase carb clearance.
But take a TMKZ10 kart engine and replace the 30mm carb with an SPJ38 and fit an Ignitech and that is well over 50 Hp at the sprocket without touching a thing.
Bore one to 60mm,giving 152cc and its over 60.
But as a side point we get 41.5 Hp at the sprocket from a 2002 CR125 dead stock except for the reeds and the pipe for SKUSA racing, throw on a 2004 cylinder with cable PV,do some porting
and your RS125 will get blown away easy.
A complete SKUSA engine parts kit is still available from HRC for under 2000 USD,and I bought a siezed 2004 cylinder,to fit on an old NSR250 MC21, here in NZ
the other day for $200, they are available new on line for around 400USD complete.
The CR125 may be wet clutch, but fit Hinson alloy/kevlar plates and you would never know, and they last forever.
Cheap as chips the whole thing.

Wob: I had thoughts of using a CR cylinder on the RS as it would be a cheap powervalve cylinder a few years ago. I was promptly told that this was a silly idea

given that the CR's generator isn't 12v. do you have to run total loss ignition?

I can only echo chrisc points. similar position (27, no sponsorship, own mechanic) deterred away from the 125's because "they're expensive" by everyone with a passing interest in bike racing. ASBK have just split the 125's into a separate class over here. the running costs of a production Moto 3 honda is about 3 times that of the 125. only thing I find a struggle is getting good advice cheaply. must be how Italian do business

All the CR ignitions from about 2002 onward are 12v to drive DC ignitions and powerjets ,TPS and powervalves ( 04 ) so these will bolt straight onto earlier models.
The later RS125 kit engines with PV and the short ( 800mm ) pipe with 200* Ex are easily replicated using the 04 CR cylinder as it had a cable
PV as standard - the only model that did.
It has reverse transfer stagger like an Aprilia, a really nice small oval Exhaust duct exit, and could easily be ported to make well over 50 Hp.
And with the PV in place it would jet past any bog RS125 out of every turn, due to the gearing enabled by the great overev.
Here is a dyno sheet ( rear wheel Hp ) of a well tuned customer Honda, a B kit, and Azuma's A kit with PV - I know what I would be trying to replicate.

Yep, it would be impossible to compete against an engine that had the same power at 13800 as a well tuned stocker has at 12200.
As i say, the CR cylinder is well capable of being tuned to even above this level, is cheap and available.
Add a long 110 rod from say Samarin with a plate and you have what won the last 250GP championship.
Slap on an Ignitech, a modern fat pipe, a VF2 and you are well into the 50Hp zone cheaply with ease..

Is the famous Kiwi ingenuity is dead then? In superkarts here in Australia a friend of mine pioneered several things that are now de rigueur in superkarts. All on a humble old NF4 engine that ended up nudging 45hp. All done with off the shelf parts, no expensive " A/B/C/D kit" parts most of them we got off ebay. That engine ran rings around karts that someone spent $5000 on a NX4 rebuild. We even tested a $18 conrod from Thailand that worked a charm.
A recent race meeting on a tight track a very good rider with a CR85 engine in a NF4 frame won races outright against a NX4. Point is the humble NF4(like a RSW 125) is still a very capable bike in the right hands.

Is the famous Kiwi ingenuity is dead then? In superkarts here in Australia a friend of mine pioneered several things that are now de rigueur in superkarts. All on a humble old NF4 engine that ended up nudging 45hp. All done with off the shelf parts, no expensive " A/B/C/D kit" parts most of them we got off ebay. That engine ran rings around karts that someone spent $5000 on a NX4 rebuild. We even tested a $18 conrod from Thailand that worked a charm.
A recent race meeting on a tight track a very good rider with a CR85 engine in a NF4 frame won races outright against a NX4. Point is the humble NF4(like a RSW 125) is still a very capable bike in the right hands.

The CR125 crank parts are same same as RS125 quality wise and last forever over 12,000 rpm in a SKUSA engine.
I think Lozza has looked at putting a HotRods CR125 crank into the RS as it has higher inertia, and revs on better ?

Inlet Duct Resonance.

It may be different for reed valve engines Rob, but not that different.
In all inlet systems the inlet flow accelerates as long as the pressure upstream of the inlet tract is higher than the downstream pressure.
When both pressures are equal the flow has reached its maximum velocity and because mixture keeps entering the crankcase, the case pressure rises above the upstream pressure and this rising pressure gently slows the flow down to a standstill (or suddenly instead of gently if the inlet port closes too soon, which can happen in both piston port and rotary induction systems).
In any case, the pressure at the crankcase side of the inlet tract will then be higher than the pressure at the bellmouth, and mixture will start flowing back towards the free world. The extend of this backflow may be so small that it is not noticeable at the bellmouth, but it is happening nevertheless. Reed valves do it just as much as other inlet control systems.

I call this phenomenon bounce-back and it should not be confused with the blow-back that occurs when an inlet port closes too late.
Bounce-back mixture never really made it into the crankcase; it returned at the closed door.
Blown-back mixture initially entered the crankcase but then reversed its flow direction because of the rising case pressure before the case was closed.
This rising case pressure resulting in flow reversal has rather little to do with the piston moving down after TDC. It can even happen before TDC if the Helmholtz frequency of the inlet system is too high for the engine revs (low revs, big carb diameter, short inlet tract, small case volume).

By the way, bounce-back may be hardly noticeable, but on the other hand it can be even more vicious than blow-back.
As an experiment I once put a 200 mm elongation tube between the carb and the rotary inlet cover of a 125 cc Rotax.
It lowered the Helmholtz frequency of the inlet system so much that inlet flow velocity was still near its maximum when the inlet disc closed. Bounce-back was so severe that within seconds the dyno room was completely fogged up with mixture. It frightened me to death; a spark would have been enough to blow the roof off.

[2T Institute]

The CR125 crank parts are same same as RS125 quality wise and last forever over 12,000 rpm in a SKUSA engine.
I think Lozza has looked at putting a HotRods CR125 crank into the RS as it has higher inertia, and revs on better ?

Been running the CR crank for yonks will go to 15,000 but had to set the limiter at 14,200. Rev junkies

[Muciek]

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/sport/...m-tt-unveiled/

Can't wait to see this racing

On the last picture You can see expansion chambers ,and they look strange at belly section where it meets diffusor and back cone.

[MotleyCrue]

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/sport/...m-tt-unveiled/

Can't wait to see this racing

On the last picture You can see expansion chambers ,and they look strange at belly section where it meets diffusor and back cone.

Since this is a V4 and I only see two exhausts, are there 2 more exhausts I'm not seeing or does this engine have 2 cylinders per exhaust ? 195 HP using paired cylinders would be rather impressive as paired cylinder engines go .

[ief]

Under the seat

[chrisc]

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/sport/...m-tt-unveiled/

Can't wait to see this racing

On the last picture You can see expansion chambers ,and they look strange at belly section where it meets diffusor and back cone.

No doubt there are some super high expectations being put on the Suter. I'd love to see it do well, particularly in it's first year, and bring back the interest in 2 strokes in floods. Love the quote on it's fairings "4strokes are 4grandmothers"

"We're heading over to the TT with a completely open mind because we still don't know the level of it, we're still learning it. It feels great though and it's a really good, strong package, but those superbikes are so good so it's hard to say right now where we'll finish. Basically, I'm the only one who's done any development on it. Eskil [Suter] himself rode it initially when he first unleashed the bike, then Wayne Gardner had a go on it, then Freddie Spencer, but other than that – and I didn't realise it at the time – I'm the one who's been developing it… But all that said, it wasn't like I was starting from scratch, and it was quite resolved when I first rode it. But this last test was really useful because the faster speeds picked up a few problems that we hadn't had before and we managed to sort them out, so now we're heading to the TT with a really good package."

Anyone have details about the fuel injection it's running? Throttle body injection, crank case or direct?

[wobbly]

The titanium belly weld makes an optical illusion, its just a normal parallel mid section.
Would have cost a zillion dollars to get Akrapovic to make those chambers.
The thing is a big bore, 580cc or something odd I read, so 195Hp isnt super spectacular for the size.
The other interesting ride is Anstey on Clive Padgetts Honda RCV MotoGP bike, be very surprised if that doesnt take the lap record.
Bruce can do it for sure.

[ken seeber]

All I can say is that it will sound beautiful. Absolutely. And a shitload better than a Moto3 (Mugello), which sounds like a pregnant pig with an extreme form of spluttering diarrhoea, particularly after eating 2 dozen cans of baked beans.

[Flettner]

All I can say is that it will sound beautiful. Absolutely. And a shitload better than a Moto3 (Mugello), which sounds like a pregnant pig with an extreme form of spluttering diarrhoea, particularly after eating 2 dozen cans of baked beans.

That good aye, don't hold back.