What is this "vanishing point" nonsense?

[Tony W]

Would someone be kind enough to explain what this is when cornering.

I think I saw it in a bike mag once, with photos, but couldn't figure out what they were on about.

Surely anybody can see if a corner is opening up or tightening !..
or am I riding too slowly, so the point vanishes before I can get to it...!

I am now ready for my lesson...

[Motu]

I've never seen it either...maybe I'm looking in the wrong place! When I have tried to find it...it would be far too close to the front of the bike...I'm always looking well beyond that!

[R6_kid:Me]

The vanishing point is where the outside of the corner meets the inside of the corner - at the furtherest point you can see.

Be careful not to use the white line on the RHS of the road as a reference for you VP. With RH corners it is advisable to use the centreline as the 'inside' of your corner.

Of course, you're not supposed to ride at a speed faster than which you can stop in half the visible distance in front of you...

[Ixion]

I suspect that you have been riding for a few years, and , like me, you use it without all the complex analytical stuff that people go on about.

As you say, one can see if the corner is opening up or the reverse. I dare say that in doing so, one subconsciously notes some "vanishing point". But it is all automatic. Indeed, I don't really identify corners as tightening or the reverse, unless I (literally) stop and think about it. One just automatically winds on more lean or more throttle.

Over analysis, IMHO.

[R6_kid:Me]

Ixion, you of all people should be aware at the almost unbelievable lack of 'common' sense amongst people these days!

Over analysis, perhaps for those with their brains engaged, but there are those who would have had no idea unless told otherwise. Kind of like counter-steering.

[jrandom]

counter-steering.

You do realise that that doesn't work on Harleys, though, right?

[dipshit]

Of course, you're not supposed to ride at a speed faster than which you can stop in half the visible distance in front of you...

You are meant to be able to stop in the total distance visible.

[R6_kid:Me]

You are meant to be able to stop in the total distance visible.

Thanks for that clarification, i'll ride faster from now on.

You do realise that that doesn't work on Harleys, though, right?

counter steering or just cornering in general?

[98tls]

Would someone be kind enough to explain what this is when cornering.

I think I saw it in a bike mag once, with photos, but couldn't figure out what they were on about.

Surely anybody can see if a corner is opening up or tightening !..
or am I riding too slowly, so the point vanishes before I can get to it...!

I am now ready for my lesson...

Means bike mags are full of someones opinion and not much else.Less reading more riding generally sorts it.

[Ixion]

Ixion, you of all people should be aware at the almost unbelievable lack of 'common' sense amongst people these days!

Over analysis, perhaps for those with their brains engaged, but there are those who would have had no idea unless told otherwise. Kind of like counter-steering.

Perhaps. But i suspect there is a probability of so complicating things that a novice rider is too busy looking for vanishing points and worrying about counter steering and all the rest of it, that he simply forgets to actually go round the bloody corner!

I mean, it's pretty simple really. See corner, lean bike over , push more or twist more as required until you shoot out the other side. You don't need to write a thesis about the physics of it, just need to do it.

[dipshit]

Thanks for that clarification, i'll ride faster from now on.

Precisely.

You only need to be able to stop in half the visible distance if you are on a single lane two-way road.

At least try to give realistic advice.

[98tls]

Perhaps. But i suspect there is a probability of so complicating things that a novice rider is too busy looking for vanishing points and worrying about counter steering and all the rest of it, that he simply forgets to actually go round the bloody corner!

I mean, it's pretty simple really. See corner, lean bike over , push more or twist more as required until you shoot out the other side. You don't need to write a thesis about the physics of it, just need to do it.

Xactly or if not simple enough get off the interweb and ride the bloody thing.Forget about vanishing points and all the other bullshit if you have to practice anything try imagining the worst is happening before your eyes and get yourself to respond accordingly ie many when it happens do nothing and die some do to much and die a few mili seconds later.

[jrandom]

counter steering or just cornering in general?

Counter steering, of course.

It's cos of physics.

[McJim]

There's an awful lot of jargon bandied about in motorcycling circles. Many people are so used to it they don't actually realise they're spouting incomprehensible rubbish.

I went to RRRS for example after riding for a sum total of 2 weeks. Most of what was said made sense but one instructor insisted on being cryptic with jargon so I unfortunately switched off and listened to the other instructors instead. A very good system they have - rotate instructors and pupils in the hope the pupil will understand at least one of the instructors!

A year later and the recall of the conversations made sense with the definitions applied.

[MSTRS:Me]

The vanishing point is real. And can be quite useful. From the rider's perspective, the sides of the road (or lane markings) appear to intersect at a distance ahead. In a corner, obviously that distance is closer to teh rider than on a straight section. Now, the 'science' of riding to the vanishing point says that as you approach the corner, the apparent intersecting of the road edge gets closer to the rider. So you slow down by whatever is required to ensure that that apparent intersection remains at a constant distance. You are now at the 'natural' speed for that particular corner. If the distance to VP decreases, then the corner is tightening up and you have a little warning to adjust your speed or lean angle before you 'get caught'. Should the distance to VP increase, then the corner is opening out and you would throttle on, as you have just apexed that corner and are about to exit it.
(this info is more for those reading this thread who really don't know the term 'vanishing point')