Crash test dummy: Draggin' Jeans get thumbs down

[Jantar]

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What sort or armour was it? .....

Damn that question. You just made me go and hunt through the cupboard where I keep my spare gear and search for something I never intend to use again.

The shoulder armour that did the damage is a hard plastic semi articulated shell with a thin lining of high impact foam and a fabric layer.

[zeocen]

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Based on exhaustive market research involving one person and one off, you may well be right. But armour too is overrated. It does not make the ground any less hard or the impact any less sudden. At best, armour may dissipate some impact forces, but it is unlike to stop bones being broken.

My hard padded armour with soft padding on the outside wasn't enough to keep my colarbone in tact. I think if you fall the wrong way you're going to end up having a bad time no matter what you're wearing.

I still wear my Quasi kevlar jeans, will probably pick up some draggins to compliment them when I have the moolah.

[vifferman]

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That maybe you should think about taking a taxi, mate!

Those crashes occurred over a 35-year period. The first three were when I was 15-17, the next four were on my cursed black bike, and unless you count lowsiding on an invisible squashed can my fault, were all technically and legally other people's fault. The last few were when my brain was addled by prescription drugs, and you're probably right - I should have taken a taxi.

[slowpoke]

Fukkin' hell people are so defensive! Challenge conventional thinking in even the slightest way and a parliamentary anecdotal inquiry is launched.

Personally I don't care what you choose to wear, I just thought it might be helpful for people to hear that you shouldn't pull 'em on like a shroud of indestructibility with a "get outta hospital free" card in the pocket.

Fact: at just 40-50kmh the kevlar was worn/torn through.

Fact: the kevlar in the hip region does not adequately cover your hip, a common impact point

As for the comments regarding armouring being more of a hindrance than a help: I reckon the WSBK/MotoGP boys and Dr Costa know a thing or two about crashing and I reckon they'd laugh at anybody's recommendation to throw the stuff in the bin.

[klingon]

I think the real problem was with the design of the rider. Really it wouldn't have been a problem if you had more padding on your bones to cushion the impact, and more curves to hold your pants up.

As a bonus you would also be better at belly-dancing and look much more fetching in a skirt.

[shafty]

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. At best, armour may dissipate some impact forces, but it is unlike to stop bones being broken.

.

Is that a typo Hitcher??????????????????????????????

[Gizzit]

I think you are right Slowpoke ... people do get a bit precious defending their choice in riding gear.
You provided good feedback ..... on what you experienced ..... in Draggin jeans.

There are others here who have got away quite well, wearing Draggins, but every crash is different.
And Vifferman had a variety of results, in a variety of gear, and/or basically ordinary street clothing. What I think it means, is it really depends on the circumstances.

I think sliding down a wet smooth road in Draggins, with reduced friction, may give a different result to a dry road surface, and especially if its a rougher sealed surface ... The speed makes a difference I'm sure, because even if the kevlar doesn't wear through .... it is probably going to burn you from the heat generated by friction.

I've had a couple of "offs" recently, once in armoured cordura gear, once in armoured leather gear. What made the difference to my injuries .... I think now, ..... was the circumstances, .... more so than what I was wearing.

I believe that you make your choice of gear based on your knowledge/experience and preferences, where you are riding, and the speed you will be traveling at, i.e. your particular environment, and make a decision on your level of risk, verses your comfort or need during your ride/at your destination.

My choice now is (usually going to be) kevlar reinforced jeans, leather jacket, boots, helmet and gloves for around town. Change the kevlar jeans for leather trou if I'm going out on the open road.

IMHO, ... I think leather will provide more protection than anything else currently available ..... for protecting your skin. Other factors in a crash will dictate what other injuries you suffer, and some form(s) of armour may mitigate those injuries to some extent.


At the end of the day .... riding a bike .... is a risk! I enjoy that risk!!!
What comes with that ... is that one day, you might bin and get hurt / die. It's like lots of decisions in life .... a risk !! That risk probably provides the thrill which we all share, and maybe why we ride !!

[James Deuce]

It's not defensive behaviour in the way you're interpreting it.

There's more stories of people saying Kevlar lined jeans are crap than there is about cordura and leather being crap combined.

Which surprises me.

I've been hurt much worse wearing full leathers than I ever have in a leather jacket and jeans.

Cordura falls to bits in even the most minor accident. My armoured, leather-at-the-impact-points Cordura trousers went right to the skin at hip and knee in a 60 km/hr accident. It's rubbish! Ban it! Never wear it, it's fallible!

They're my experiences.

So leather sucks and Cordura sucks balls. I wouldn't personally recommend leather as protective gear, and I'd call Cordura a raincoat and leggings not protective gear.

I think the argument posited and content of the argument isn't particularly well thought out. No one will back up my argument for banning leather (rightly so, but....), however everyone makes cautionary statements about wearing kevlar lined jeans, even people who wear them daily (with one or two notable exceptions).

[popelli]

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In contrast I wore/tore through the Draggin's kevlar on the knee with a fairly "meaty" abrasion resulting, along with abrasions around that from the actual kevlar itself. I also lost a bit of skin high and low on my hip which would have been worse had I not been wearing a substantial belt to hold 'em up over my skinny arse. The fault here is the kevlar lining only just reaches the edge of your hip and as you slide along the pants ride around just a tad and you end up wearing through the jeans/skin rather than the kevlar next to it.

Sorry to hear about your off

I always wondered how the dragging jeans woyuld stand up to real life accidents when the rider was exposed to abrasion that was not protected by the kevlar "patches" your post confirms what I always suspected

For this very reason I chosse not to buy the dragging jeans and bought hood jeans, they are 100% lined

As yet thay have not had the acid test

[Jantar]

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Fact: at just 40-50kmh the kevlar was worn/torn through.

Fact: the kevlar in the hip region does not adequately cover your hip, a common impact point

As for the comments regarding armouring being more of a hindrance than a help: I reckon the WSBK/MotoGP boys and Dr Costa know a thing or two about crashing and I reckon they'd laugh at anybody's recommendation to throw the stuff in the bin.

Yep, nothing new here. Kevlar is better than standard jeans but not as good as cordura which is not as good as leather etc. The whole point is that a rider should wear protective gear, but no-one is going to say that you may only ever wear the ultimate GP quality armoured leather. What level of protection a rider chooses for a particular ride is entirely up to that rider.

As for the armour, if I was racing at GP speeds then I would want armour, but at low speeds over soft ground then I certainly don't want it. I have ditched all hard armour from my gear, but I have retained the high impact soft armour, and I would never recommend to anyone "to throw the stuff in the bin." I would just say "Use it where appropriate rather than all the time."

[Gizzit]

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........ SNIP ..........

I've been hurt much worse wearing full leathers than I ever have in a leather jacket and jeans.

No argument with you there James. I still think what makes the differences to our experience with whatever gear ..... is the circumstances we crash in/the environment.

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They're my experiences.

And just as valid as Slowpoke's or anyone else's ..... it's what you know from your experience!

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So leather sucks and Cordura sucks balls. I wouldn't personally recommend leather as protective gear, and I'd call Cordura a raincoat and leggings not protective gear.

That makes it a bit tricky mate !! ..... what DO you recommend then ?? (and I'm not trying to be a smart arse or anything ... )

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I think the argument posited and content of the argument isn't particularly well thought out. No one will back up my argument for banning leather (rightly so, but....), however everyone makes cautionary statements about wearing kevlar lined jeans, even people who wear them daily (with one or two notable exceptions).

Unlike you, I did think the arguments that people put forwards were pretty well reasoned, and based on experiences ...... and we all can have very different experiences with the same or similar gear. Once again, I reckon that it comes down to the individual circumstances in the crashes.

Nothing is full proof ... IMO. I have and use all the different varieties of gear (denim/kevlar, cordura, leather).. in different situations. I don't believe I can rely on it. I do still believe - rightly or wrongly - that leather protects your skin best in a sliding situation ..... but I haven't binned in denim/kevlar yet. However, guys that race on circuits .... where sliding is more regular in an off .... rely on leather exclusively .... as far as I know.
Those of us .... that only ride on the street, have a much more dangerous environment to contend with, and we just have to make the best decisions we can! As long as people try and protect themselves somehow ... I reckon! Beats the hell out of jandals, shorts and a t shirt. I can only think when I see anyone riding in that kind of gear ....... " you have never binned" !!

[vifferman]

I was going to delete my post, as it pissed me off people thinking I was a shit rider and had had a lot of crashes, and maybe missing the point. In fact, I have had no bins (NONE! Not even 'incidents'!) on the open road, and apart from some nooobie incidents when I was a teenager ALL the other spills have been while communtering in D'Auckland, a most dangerous place to ride. I've no broken bones that I know of (although I suspect my left heel was cracked).
Of the bins I've had where I wasn't wearing much safety gear, only one resulted in a visit to hospital to get patched up, and had I been wearing leather pants and decent footwear, that would've been unnecessary.
My most serious crash would've undoubtedly been more injurious without decent boots, gloves, leathers with knee armour (soft, but substantial), and a back protector in my jacket.

There is anecdotal evidence that thinking you are safe encourages you to take more risks. Perhaps the availability of good armoured motorcycle gear encourages a degree of complacency?? When I started riding, it was common to not wear gloves except for the cold, fullface helmets were rare, full leathers were generally worn by only racers and gang members, and armour was non-existent. Sounds like many scooterists and some cruiser riders today....

However, as others have reiterated, circumstances often seem to have more bearing on injuries than what gear you were wearing. The only control you have over circumstances is your attitude, and what actions come of it: keep your speed sensible (and appropriate); be aggressively defensive and alert; wear what gear you can that is appropriate for the level of risk.

[junkmanjoe]

Hi Slowpoke.

its our roads around here, the seal is so evil, its like rubbing 40grit sand paper on ya ass...
my mate had a off little while ago, and he wears more armor than a bank volt,
he tore holes in everything and cracked a rib,,
the other chap we ride with wears them saftey jeans,

[Chrislost]

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It's not defensive behaviour in the way you're interpreting it.

There's more stories of people saying Kevlar lined jeans are crap than there is about cordura and leather being crap combined.

Which surprises me.

I've been hurt much worse wearing full leathers than I ever have in a leather jacket and jeans.

Cordura falls to bits in even the most minor accident. My armoured, leather-at-the-impact-points Cordura trousers went right to the skin at hip and knee in a 60 km/hr accident. It's rubbish! Ban it! Never wear it, it's fallible!

They're my experiences.

So leather sucks and Cordura sucks balls. I wouldn't personally recommend leather as protective gear, and I'd call Cordura a raincoat and leggings not protective gear.

I think the argument posited and content of the argument isn't particularly well thought out. No one will back up my argument for banning leather (rightly so, but....), however everyone makes cautionary statements about wearing kevlar lined jeans, even people who wear them daily (with one or two notable exceptions).

My Cordura wore/melted through when i fell off the luge in silverdale.

my draggins stopped me loosing skin when i tumbled across the road at 80km/h.
I had complimented my draggins with some $30 fox motorcross knee/shin armour.
This had a few scratches in and im dam sure that having the armour made me a lot more comfortable in the hours after the crash than i would have been in straight draggins

[rabbai67]

Thanks for your comments. I have always suspected that Kevlar jeans were of minimal use in the event of an accident and you have convinced me. As a city dweller it is a real hassle wearing my textile gear when out and about and I often forgo it for the ease of normal clothes. I guess it is each individuals choice whether they want to take the risk or not but don't kid your self that reinforced jeans are protecting you any better than standard ones.