ESE's works engine tuner

[TZ350]

I am going to try water injection at some point as I have already got the gear made up for it.

The plan was to get a good dyno run without and a run with water injection and then turn the injector off at the point the two graphs cross over.

At first it seemed simple to me, if I could get a power extension at the bottom, the two graphs joining together nicely with the top end revving out like before then the thing should work.

But of course a full on dyno run is not like picking your way through the twisties where you are on part throttle a lot of the time using that low end grunt. Not a lot of people apex a slow corner using full throttle.

So it’s likely that enough water to tame the fire at full throttle on the dyno is going to be way to much at quarter throttle and some moderation of the water according to engine load will be needed.

This complication with water injection makes the simpler open/closed ATAC idea Wobbly proposed look much more attractive and variable crank case volume looks interesting too.

I am going to look at all of these ideas some day but at the moment the problem is getting the carburator tucked in out of the way when using the Vtec variable inlet timing device. I think the variable timing is important as it better matches the inlet to high and low rpm.

If I am going to have good low down grunt then I need good low down carburation. So far nearly anything I do seems to add length to the inlet and that shortens the power spread by cutting back peak power and over rev.

I have ordered a 24mm pumper Kart carb, I don’t really need the pumper part but the carb is quite a bit shorter and can be bolted directly to the engine without a rubber mount saving a lot of valuable mm’s.

1st things 1st, when the variable inlet timing and carburation is sorted then I will see what can be done with the pipe for more low end.

[husaberg]

[

QUOTE=bucketracer;1130115332]Its a safe place, the world of good ideas as everything is possible with talk and nothing actually has to work.

jousting with others

I was not aware I was, If so sorry?

Mostly the people who post on the Team ESE thread talk about what they are doing, have done or are trying to do.

I think you way have got the wrong end of the stick of what I am trying to accomplish with this reworking of a failed in field testing. But never the less is an extremely interesting quirk of 2 stroke tuning poential.
Water injection in trial conditions can achieve a 24-30 % increase in mid range power. What 2 stroke doesn't need thi,s if it could be done without aftecting top end power .
This has been documented by some of the leading boffins in the two stroke world.
I thought this was a 2 stroke tuning forum where ideas are shared.

In the industry that I work in, We first thoroughly brain storm an idea before it implemented. That way input from many is considered and experience is shared for the good of all.
Different opinions are then sought and considered. The idea it is then tested/refined as nes then implemented and lastly it is refined as needed again .

If someone at my work breaks protocol or tries a new idea without this process, People can die.No joke.Ultra high voltage.

Apologies to all if I have got carried away.

When I find the original photos they will have to be scanned as they were film only and notebook and get round to sorting though it all. As well as taking some new ones when the weather improves.
I will post the specs and photos notes of my original bucket along with some of the details and progress of the new engine that Wobbly is curently helping with.inatial design stage mostly nutted out and novel in its base model as far as I know.
Once all the bits are in place, (from at last count 6 different engine models), That are to be raided for the...hp bucket.
This to will be mostly shared.
The bucket in my avatar was my original 68kg bike. Which had some interesting modifications buried inside .
Personally seeing you seem to doubt my practical ability. I designed and built my first expansion chamber at 16, It was officially measured at 123db (that loud it hurt) and added 45kph to the top end.It sure was ugly though and I still have it. In the first test session I was that excited I tried it without a stinger and it spat a ring and took the top land off the piston.The impetuousness of youth.me old man sure was pissed. But he welded it back together (the Piston)anyway and repinned the rings to, he is a clever bugger.

[bucketracer]

I thought this was a 2 stroke tuning forum where ideas are shared.

Its not a talk feast, at its best its a forum where people share incites into their experience and/or work they are currently doing or to ask a genuine question.

I will post the specs and photos notes of my original bucket along with some of the details and progress of the new engine that Wobbly is helping with.

Now, this is keeping it real and posts about your projects will be very welcome .............

[husaberg]

Now, this is keeping it real and is very much welcome ............

.

The generation gap maybe us old buggers (I am 37) sure do like to talk.
I do see your point though.
I will not show Wobbly the pics of the transfers though, he threatened do do bad things to the last guy who had transfer septums that were about half as sharp as mine.
It wasn't my fault- it was err...the fashion back then?.Plus you could shave with them.Or cut my leather tie with them, remember those boys.

[bucketracer]

It wasn't my fault- it was the fashion back then.

Yes, so much that is done follows fashion, one of the great things about Buckets that I love, is that fiddlers can try out their own original ideas and fashion be dammed.

[husaberg]

Yes, so much that is done follows fashion, one of the great things about Buckets that I love, is that fiddlers can try out their own original ideas and fashion be dammed.

sorry its a long one.
Remember the mid 90's

What I found back when I was playing with the Mb100/H100 MB5 bucket was the commonality with not only the cr80 ra/rb for the ignition etc .
There is also a great deal of commonality with a lot of other honda engines got to love Honda for that.Lazy bastards they were, the designers.
One easy mod I found when playing was the xr200 clutch(I think it was could have been the cb100 in hindsight but it is a four stoke single) mod the basket is wider it i.e. std an extra 1 plates std slightly beefier hub and although the spine is different it simply presses out with the mb fitting in its place.
The tooth profile and number of teeth is the same the xr200 clutch has a wider shoulder behind the spline which needs to be slimmed down also. The xr200 hub has a beefier release bearing and alloy bearing pressure plate I seem to recall a mod to the pushrod and a spacer gasket. The plates of a EBC catalog are all steel and proper fiber and are not pulp based like the mb100/h100.used to use mobile 1 oil.2 stoke mix was A747 at 20:1. Squish was as per bell book but I never did measure the comp ratio.

Tuning wise my h100 based engine at the time up there with the fastest real legal bikes I ever encountered. The Honda xl125 bikes were the fastest then but they were all xr200 in disguise (Names withheld) was super quick and ultra trick but he even admitted it had a "thin sleeve" and interesting stroke these were pre fxr150 125cc days though.
There was a gp100 that could outrun mine but he was a far better rider (He still is too)and I suspect he was also a 125 as the ccs were ground of the barrel. My bike was pretty tame initially and one of the first mb5 100 in the south island as far as I know it was mb5 ignition ( it has an high speed retard )I had an cr80 ignition but could never find a suitable cdi unit I did try a xr200 one with the cr80 stator it worked but wouldn’t run over 6000rpm (off course it was from a four stroke with the ignition normally run at half engine speed) it had the cut down rd reed manifold complete with stuffers cut a little and the 4 petal reed block and tzr 28 mm downdraft (Trick then)it was ported to bell book spec with the transfers raise by the lift the barrel 1.6 spacer way Machine a similar amount of the top.I was To chicken to touch the transfers it was super torquey but probably needed a 34mm carb In hindsight it really needed one and it would explain why it was no flat after the additional porting work.I was going to fit an silver plated big end from the cr125 m 76ish I think. I had a box of nos 125 bits at the time. it was able to be fitted with the 125 rod same length etc but was 2mm wider and would have needed the checks of the crank machined it used to run to 12500 regularly on the std crank so I never got around to it. The engine for the most part was super reliable although the mag side bearing let go a couple of times and had the mag spin on the taper repeatedly until I lapped it on. It was 68kgs dry with a gutted cut down tank and the std oil tank as a fuel tank, BHP was estimated at 23 ish in comparison to other bikes. There was no dynos in the south island then. After I brought my first farm a was always to poor and got to fat and the bike was left neglected at my parents in a leaky shed .I rescued it last year with the hope of resurrecting it but I am probably to fat now. I put on a set of Honda 2.5x17 rims cbr250 front and a 3,5x17 front from a cbr400 on the rear. I already had a floating 300mm cast iron rs125 disk for the front with a 4 piston brembo and a rs125 mc from spares of my cr500 motard I got around to fitting a set of usd forks from some Chinese bike with nice alloy yokes the project stalled there once my son starting mx.
A mate of mine used help me with a lot of the grunt work stuff he came up with the concept of the 6 speed mb100 in the south island at least as far as I know.His bike used to run a huge plumper carb from a jet ski with a more mildly ported mb100 (Although I think the mb100s were a bit more racey spec in the porting std)
this bike would piss all over mine in acceleration, but it would bog on over run and practically high side you on corner exit it came in the sudden although I think I found a write up on how to fix this latter on in an ancient cycle article, interesting Cagiva fuel injection suffered the same problem.
I rode his bike once at a bucket meeting and beat a couple of guys who had national championships then and later f1 and f2 It was a tight track though it said more about this and the bike set up than my riding ability.
will add pics and notes later.

[Yow Ling]

Thanks for the Story,
Where is your farm? There is buckets at Levels mid August.
You wont be the biggest guy there, and at 37 you will be at least 15 years junior.
No point in letting your bike rust in the shed, otherwise sell it to me and Ill let it rust in my shed with all the classic buckets Ive collected

[wobbly]

Stoner kicks Horheys arse at Laguna, bravery and poetry in motion, a joy to watch.
I would come to Mt Welly if anyone rode a bucket like that boy - woo hoo.

[gav]

Where abouts in the South Island were you racing? Were a lot of fast MB's at Woodbourne in the early days.

[kel]

I would come to Mt Welly if anyone rode a bucket like that boy - woo hoo.

Bit hard to steer with the rear with only 16hp. See Lorenzos practice crash, traction control wasnt engaged, spat him in a milli second. Check out the photo, still has his hand on throttle!

[wobbly]

Lorenzo was sore after the race - no wonder when another millisec after the pic above he did a full face belly flop on the tarmac.
Forget steering the rear,Stoner kept it pinned around the outside at full noise,amazing.

[goose8]

Bit hard to steer with the rear with only 16hp. See Lorenzos practice crash, traction control wasnt engaged, spat him in a milli second. Check out the photo, still has his hand on throttle!

I've seen Nigel ride like Lorenzo did in practice a few times very similar to the photo

[husaberg]

Thanks for the Story,
Where is your farm? There is buckets at Levels mid August.
You wont be the biggest guy there, and at 37 you will be at least 15 years junior.
No point in letting your bike rust in the shed, otherwise sell it to me and Ill let it rust in my shed with all the classic buckets Ive collected

We sold our last farm for the sake of the Kidz schooling ,travel for the mrs and the stress huge mortgage etc (that comment should gain points with the Mrs. aye) about 2 years ago. The Mrs. has got the house she thought she always wanted (still not finished bloody master builder my arse) and I got a few toys. I still work full time as I always have but have scaled back my hours in actual paid work I used to Average 60 with bursts over 100 this was not including the farm mind you. I now strictly do 40 .I also sacked my old boss for a real easy job with the same money as I used to get working long hours. Ps West Coast.
Re levels the sound check for the classic at 123db was there, they might not want me back a few more houses down now to now i bet .

[Gigglebutton]

Lorenzo was sore after the race - no wonder when another millisec after the pic above he did a full face belly flop on the tarmac.
Forget steering the rear,Stoner kept it pinned around the outside at full noise,amazing.

Watched the race race last night after the girls finished with Project Runway & Britain's next best baker Grrrrrr. Fuck yeh, awesome move by Stoner. The best race so far. Hope Rossi can sort that Duke out. Next season should be good with the 1 liter motors and a bigger field

[wobbly]

Have just found out that the Suzuki VJ23 cylinder is a T port ( like the older models and also Aprilia RS250) but it has sub ports as well.
This may be an even better choice for sitting on a RG bottom end and sleeving to 50mm.
Anyone got one I can look at.