Help! Sump plug stripped

[oldskool]

My sump plug is stripped. I had hoped to do an oil change before riding this weekend. I tried to undo the plug but all it does is just keep turning without unwinding. What is best way to remove the bung (I tried vice grips and pulling motion at same time as unwinding action but it ain't happening), rethread the hole and get it sorted? What sort of engineering shop do I need to go to for those coil/thread thingies?

[98tls]

Any bike shop will throw a Heli-coil in there for bugger all.

[gatch]

Is there a sump you can unbolt ? Is the engine put together like that ?

Helicoils are easy to install, just the swarf from the drilling and tapping, then breaking the tail off the heli coil might leave a mess in your motor..

[oldskool]

Any bike shop will throw a Heli-coil in there for bugger all.
I'd like to try DIY first, besides don't think they would have the time to do it before the weekend. Failing that I'll syringe out the oil from the fill hole, it's gotta be better than not changing the oil!

[kezzafish]

dunno how you're gonna get it out but you'll need to take the bolt/sumpplug with you so that you can measure the thread to find which Helicoil kit you need to buy. Will be around $90 odd for the kit with the drill,helicoils,coil driver. Repco can get them in but often don't have em in stock. I could recommend engineering supplies in wellington but you'll have to find somewhere that does that sorta thing up your way... Barty'll know. Bit scary tho, you don't wanna be leaving swarf inside the case... I don't envy you... good luck

[oldskool]

dunno how you're gonna get it out but you'll need to take the bolt/sumpplug with you so that you can measure the thread to find which Helicoil kit you need to buy. Will be around $90 odd for the kit with the drill,helicoils,coil driver. Repco can get them in but often don't have em in stock. I could recommend engineering supplies in wellington but you'll have to find somewhere that does that sorta thing up your way... Barty'll know. Bit scary tho, you don't wanna be leaving swarf inside the case... I don't envy you... good luck

aaaargh just what I don't wanna hear!!! Maybe a syringe will be the go for the mo'!

[kezzafish]

aaaargh just what I don't wanna hear!!! Maybe a syringe will be the go for the mo'!

yeah, maybe just tip the fucker upside down and let it drain... Is this on the KX? if so i'd just run it and sort it next week lol. I had this drama on a waterpump a few weeks back... i like to do things at home too but man... i dunno if i'd give that another go lol

[FROSTY]

Mate--DONT fuck with it. the sump plug threads into the crank case.
Muck it up and youll be splitting the cases
Pay someonle like Alex Gee to do it for ya. it will be cheaper

[oldskool]

Mate--DONT fuck with it. the sump plug threads into the crank case.
Muck it up and youll be splitting the cases
Pay someonle like Alex Gee to do it for ya. it will be cheaper
Thanks for the heads up. Who is Alex Gee?

[Sammikins]

Cousin of Kenny G

[oldskool]

Cousin of Kenny G
LOL you beat me to the punchline! ..and what sort of flute does he play?

[kezzafish]

uncle of warren G

[L Rider]

John got some heli-coils done on the RM - wasn't a huge expense. Place in Glenfield which i can't remember the name - get hold of John he'll know

[Sammikins]

uncle of warren G

I Shot the sherriiiiiiiif

[Sammikins]

LOL you beat me to the punchline! ..and what sort of flute does he play?

Thought he played a Saxophone

[FROSTY]

call him ---4168932

[ManDownUnder]

Cousin of Kenny G

So if he goes for a Whizz...

[kezzafish]

I Shot the sherriiiiiiiif

ha ha haaaa, instant spam attack... oh these bored, bored gingers... what shall we do about them oldschool?

[Sammikins]

So if he goes for a Whizz...

Huh??? .

[oldskool]

ha ha haaaa, instant spam attack... oh these bored, bored gingers... what shall we do about them oldschool?
LOL yeah it's soo tempting isn't it, but I think I've done enough stirring with sammi for today !

[barty5]

We drilled and tapped rupe sump (on his bike before cheese has a go) a few weeks back piss easy but you need to get sump plug out first.

[Sammikins]

LOL yeah it's soo tempting isn't it, but I think I've done enough stirring with sammi for today !

Yeah I'd be careful if I were you... You may wake up with a severed horse head in your bed. Us ranga'z are an unpredictable bunch...

[kevfromcoro]

Mate--DONT fuck with it. the sump plug threads into the crank case.
Muck it up and youll be splitting the cases
Pay someonle like Alex Gee to do it for ya. it will be cheaper

As he said....
Dont fuck with it.....
Get some engineer to do it...

[oldskool]

Yeah I'd be careful if I were you... You may wake up with a severed horse head in your bed. Us ranga'z are an unpredictable bunch...
LOL glad you have a sense of humour!

[oldskool]

We drilled and tapped rupe sump (on his bike before cheese has a go) a few weeks back piss easy but you need to get sump plug out first.
Yeah I figger that's the hard part, getting the f####r out

[ManDownUnder]

Huh??? .

Gee Whizz... aaa ok - it was a bit esoteric.

[kezzafish]

it was a bit esoteric.

huh???? .

[FROSTY]

Yeah I figger that's the hard part, getting the f####r out
sorry dude wasn't being clear. As is your bike is ridable.-its wendsday and if you cant get the job done till next week youll sulk all QB.

[fredie]

i had a sump plug striped one time . i put a longer plug bolt in . it worked .there was some thread left .thank god for that :laugh:

[vr4king]

I used to have the same prob i used to drain the oil out by removing the whole clutch cover then apply rtv to seal it back up till one day i got sick of doing that so i vicegripped the plug out and it came out mint so i chucked a new plug in bingo all good

But a helicoil is good idea
A little trick i used to do(yes im a machinest by trade)was cover the tap in grease to stop the swarf from getting everywhere that way the swarf stays on the tap
Also "shocking" a bolt is a good idea ie not apply pressure slowly but rather abruptly ie hammer on socket bar etc but gotta be real carefull alloy is rather maluable and is easy to break a head off

[honda_power]

my mate is going though this problem now on his 87 yz250... he talked to Waikato Yamaha and they quoted $25... not a big deal at all. Hes taking it in tomorow.

[oldskool]

sorry dude wasn't being clear. As is your bike is ridable.-its wendsday and if you cant get the job done till next week youll sulk all QB.
you're right, I shouldn't f@@k whats not broken...well.. you know what I mean! (it's rideable and I should wait for next available free time, apart from QB, to look at it!)

[discotex]

Ask Raj... He knows how to fix this problem ;)

[SARGE]

Gee Whizz... aaa ok - it was a bit esoteric.

hey .. easy with the big words Shakespeare

[oldskool]

Gee Whizz... aaa ok - it was a bit esoteric.
That was sooo subtle it was on a different hemisphere!:doobey::mobile:

[laserracer]

Nah he plays a nose flute:shit:

[laserracer]

If you are really worried just suck it out ...but dont burn your lips:shit:

[oldskool]

If you are really worried just suck it out ...but dont burn your lips:shit:
nah he plays the clarinet not the skin flute.

But seriously it should keep till next week. Some good ideas coming up tho'. Through the spyglass I see that the oil has collected a bit of moisture and is going slightly creamy so be good to change it sooner than later.

[laserracer]

Through the spyglass? ....you have your own pirate ship ??
i thought it was a dirtbike
mmmm like it when its creamy:confused:

[oldskool]

Through the spyglass? ....you have your own pirate ship ??
i thought it was a dirtbike
mmmm like it when its creamy:confused:

:laugh: you're a nutter, you're odder than I! (that's a compliment!)

for the record it's a Kwaka KX125 not a whaKa 12.5

[Taz]

Wouldn't have happened to a KDX but we all know that they are superior eh :whistle:

[oldskool]

Wouldn't have happened to a KDX but we all know that they are superior eh :whistle:
hehheh, but I thought KDX's were hand-me-down tech from out of date KX's

[laserracer]

Its cause its green ....Now if it was blue you wouldnt have these troubles

[barty5]

Its cause its green ....Now if it was blue you wouldnt have these troubles

good point hahaha. Just imagine the hassles had it been yellow or red let alone orange then you would need a second mortgage to repair.

[oldskool]

good point hahaha. Just imagine the hassles had it been yellow or red let alone orange then you would need a second mortgage to repair.
oi turncoat, remember your colours, you are a proud owner of a green 125 too remember!

[Hemex]

oi turncoat, remember your colours, you are a proud owner of a green 125 too remember!

Not really..hes got it in camo to cover up the green...and his blue one is white... confused much?

[oldskool]

Not really..hes got it in camo to cover up the green...and his blue one is white... confused much?
errr yeah does sound that way!

[laserracer]

suppose i should watch my mouth concidering we have both the blues for sale ...well only tims yz250 .. im gonna keep mine now...till it trys to kill me again:laugh::shifty:i can see my cardiologist shaking his head from here:laugh:

[B0000M]

wouldntve happened on a red one.

[barty5]

Not really..hes got it in camo to cover up the green...and his blue one is white... confused much?

Yeh but dont forget after this weekend its going to be all black as a world
1st cause you cant buy this kit.

[barty5]

wouldntve happened on a red one.

Nah there clutch basket just fall appart dont know which is better. But i do know which is easyer on the wallet.

[B0000M]

Nah there clutch basket just fall appart dont know which is better. But i do know which is easyer on the wallet.

firstly, to be fair, its done close to 200 hours

those hours have mostly been fairly hard hours

and they have since changed the design of clutch basket so that doesnt happen anymore... bastards.

[Sammikins]

Grizzle grizzle moan let's all get Lifans then... <_<

[barty5]

firstly, to be fair, its done close to 200 hours

those hours have mostly been fairly hard hours

and they have since changed the design of clutch basket so that doesnt happen anymore... bastards.

Yeh i know but gota have the dig where yah can.
You got it sorted yet ??

[L Rider]

Grizzle grizzle moan let's all get Lifans then... <_<

haha a Lifan - that could be your new bike:laugh:

[Sammikins]

haha a Lifan - that could be your new bike:laugh:

Can I find a paper bag big enough to fit over my helmet first??? ! Never ever will I be seen riding a Lifan... :no:

[oldskool]

Can I find a paper bag big enough to fit over my helmet first??? ! Never ever will I be seen riding a Lifan... :no:
This grizzling is contagious isn't it! :shit:

[B0000M]

Yeh i know but gota have the dig where yah can.
You got it sorted yet ??

no, im still waiting on some bearings seals and gaskets from econohonda

i couldve put it back together but decided to pull it right apart and do a bottom end and replace all the gearbox bearings while im there.... unfortunately this is taking some time as someone in australia has fucked up and hadnt sent the parts as of tuesday this week... therefore my bike is STILL in pieces more than a month later. got the basket about a month ago tho

[barty5]

Can I find a paper bag big enough to fit over my helmet first??? ! Never ever will I be seen riding a Lifan... :no:

Just use a hemex fox bag hahaha

[kezzafish]

ha haaa, time to buy a KTM or follow the path of 4 strokes brother

[oldskool]

ha haaa, time to buy a KTM or follow the path of 4 strokes brother
Amen to that

[Hemex]

Yeh but dont forget after this weekend its going to be all black as a world
1st cause you cant buy this kit.

Thats a super kit mate...RedRider's skills? ..its still not blue though..:laugh:


Just use a hemex fox bag hahaha

I'm taking orders now... haahaha

[B0000M]

ha haaa, time to buy a KTM or follow the path of 4 strokes brother

hypothecicly, say id allready done that and i had a yzf for example.

racing..racing...racing... clutch basket breaks
- shit goes all thru gearbox
- shit therefore goes all thru engine
- not only is the gearbox full of metal filings, but the cylinder is now fucked, the piston, rings, probably the valves, the whole bottom end etc etc

hmm... where would i be then?



if i owned a ktm,

racing racing racing.... clutch basket breaks
-shit goes thru gearbox
-unsure if it goes anywhere else on ktms
- kazacstan is unable to supply for 16 weeks due to a religious holiday and all the austrians are too busy locking up their daughters and raping them for their whole lives
- once parts finally are found, the total comes to 3 trillion dollars



if i bought a crf450

i would have the same clutch basket anyway, so would be the same issue. except i would have no fun riding it.



if i bought a crf250

i allready have one and i think its gutless and boring.



if i bought a rmz

i would have to replace it every 12 months due to build quality (so ive been told from a suzuki sponsored rider) and even when i did id still have an old looking brand new bike



if i bought a kxf

i would have horriffic parts costs every time i needed anything, not to mention the ugly green bike




any other suggestions?





there we go, i think ive wound up just about everybody in one post just then

:Pokey: :Pokey: :Pokey: :Pokey: :Pokey: :Pokey: :Pokey: :Pokey: :Pokey: :Pokey:

[Sammikins]

hypothecicly, say id allready done that and i had a yzf for example.

racing..racing...racing... clutch basket breaks
- shit goes all thru gearbox
- shit therefore goes all thru engine
- not only is the gearbox full of metal filings, but the cylinder is now fucked, the piston, rings, probably the valves, the whole bottom end etc etc

hmm... where would i be then?



if i owned a ktm,

racing racing racing.... clutch basket breaks
-shit goes thru gearbox
-unsure if it goes anywhere else on ktms
- kazacstan is unable to supply for 16 weeks due to a religious holiday and all the austrians are too busy locking up their daughters and raping them for their whole lives
- once parts finally are found, the total comes to 3 trillion dollars



if i bought a crf450

i would have the same clutch basket anyway, so would be the same issue. except i would have no fun riding it.



if i bought a crf250

i allready have one and i think its gutless and boring.



if i bought a rmz

i would have to replace it every 12 months due to build quality (so ive been told from a suzuki sponsored rider) and even when i did id still have an old looking brand new bike



if i bought a kxf

i would have horriffic parts costs every time i needed anything, not to mention the ugly green bike




any other suggestions?





there we go, i think ive wound up just about everybody in one post just then

:Pokey: :Pokey: :Pokey: :Pokey: :Pokey: :Pokey: :Pokey: :Pokey: :Pokey: :Pokey:

Lifan for Life. Peace out

[B0000M]

Lifan for Life. Peace out

yea but then id have to keep going back to pick up all the pieces that fall off all the time

[Sammikins]

yea but then id have to keep going back to pick up all the pieces that fall off all the time

Fine I guess after I've built the gun that shoots angle grinders and the F1 motor couch I'm gonna have to design and build the perfect bike... :shifty:

[B0000M]

Fine I guess after I've built the gun that shoots angle grinders and the F1 motor couch I'm gonna have to design and build the perfect bike... :shifty:

i dont know whats worse, a bike built by the chinese or a bike built by a ranga!

[Sammikins]

i dont know whats worse, a bike built by the chinese or a bike built by a ranga!

You don't hold back do you...

[B0000M]

You don't hold back do you...

no, not really

[Hemex]

i dont know whats worse, a bike built by the chinese or a bike built by a ranga!

cant bling you mate, but that deserves plenty! haahahahaha

[barty5]

You don't hold back do you...

Unlike his sponsers i see they are going all out.

[B0000M]

Unlike his sponsers i see they are going all out.

lol. true.

wheres all yours then? and companies you own, own shares in or are in some way directed or managed by yourself dont count

[Sammikins]

"I'd like to thank my sponsors, Rockstar Makita Yamaha..." :third:

[barty5]

lol. true.

wheres all yours then? and companies you own, own shares in or are in some way directed or managed by yourself dont count

Havnt you seen my new graphic kit Jack daniels all the way

[barty5]

"I'd like to thank my sponsors, Rockstar Makita Yamaha..." :third:

Hahahahahaha

[oldskool]

Heres the culprit

[barty5]

Heres the culprit

Hey cant go back on topic come on gee whats the world comin to.

[oldskool]

Hey cant go back on topic come on gee whats the world comin to.
sorry to be such a kiljoy :laugh: not normally me :Punk: just got back from the workshop and posted the pic before I had a chance to catch up on the goss!

[laserracer]

maybe if you undo the lockwire:shit::shifty:

[laserracer]

Hey theres not much paint left under there oldschool, best you get a spraycan of snot green and give it a good going over

[oldskool]

Hey theres not much paint left under there oldschool, best you get a spraycan of snot green and give it a good going over
why? I thought you liked blue? see, around the fringes, it's aging to blue, not long to go before it's like yours!

[oldskool]

maybe if you undo the lockwire:shit::shifty:
:doh: why didn't I think of that? :stupid:

[ozrobo]

yeah ya take your sump out to get it helicoiled costs bout 60 bucks yo have to drill the bolt out which is the reason you want ur sump off

[oldskool]

yeah ya take your sump out to get it helicoiled costs bout 60 bucks yo have to drill the bolt out which is the reason you want ur sump off
honda_power earlier posted it may cost around $25 for the job at a bike shop. Has the price gone up that quickly after todays budget announcement?

[barty5]

yeah ya take your sump out to get it helicoiled costs bout 60 bucks yo have to drill the bolt out which is the reason you want ur sump off

might work on some road bike but to do that he would have to strip the whole motor and split the casing.

[honda_power]

ended up costing $40... but he had a couple other little things done to it as well so fixing the sump would have been about $30. 5 minute job if you have the tools.

[oldskool]

ended up costing $40... but he had a couple other little things done to it as well so fixing the sump would have been about $30. 5 minute job if you have the tools.
so how did they remove the bolt, like what tool did they use?

[honda_power]

I guess they would drill it out then re-thread the sump.

[oldskool]

I guess they would drill it out then re-thread the sump.
do they have a vacuum hose spread around the drill bit?

[honda_power]

do they have a vacuum hose spread around the drill bit?

i didnt watch them do it, if your talking about oil pissing every where my mates was empty. Just turn the bike upsidedown. Better yet, take it in and let it be someone elses problem - its aparantly quite a common issue - I stripped a oil filter cap bolt in one of my crfs and the bike shop fixed it sweet was, was never a problem again

[oldskool]

i didnt watch them do it, if your talking about oil pissing every where my mates was empty. Just turn the bike upsidedown. Better yet, take it in and let it be someone elses problem - its aparantly quite a common issue - I stripped a oil filter cap bolt in one of my crfs and the bike shop fixed it sweet was, was never a problem again
I probably will end up leaving it to the trained apprentices to sort (shock horror the job is so small that's probably what will happen!) just curious how they prevent the metal shavings entering the gearbox is all.

[barty5]

I probably will end up leaving it to the trained apprentices to sort (shock horror the job is so small that's probably what will happen!) just curious how they prevent the metal shavings entering the gearbox is all.

there isnt and real way to stop it you just use a small magnet Small one on a flexiable wand thingy works through the sump hole after and flush it out as best you can.

[oldskool]

there isnt and real way to stop it you just use a small magnet Small one on a flexiable wand thingy works through the sump hole after and flush it out as best you can.

aaah okay, and I guess if you drain the oil the flow on will assist the swarf out like how you bleed a wound to prevent tetanus.

[YellowDog]

Well if you haven't solved this, The Warehouse sell those spanners that grip the flats and not the corners of the bolt. For $10 it's worth a try.

[kezzafish]

oldschool your pic is really tripping me out. Maybe i;m just tired but it looks like a piece of driftwood wired to a crusty, green, steel, bike frame. Can you explain the pic to me (i'm not taking the piss here)

[barty5]

oldschool your pic is really tripping me out. Maybe i;m just tired but it looks like a piece of driftwood wired to a crusty, green, steel, bike frame. Can you explain the pic to me (i'm not taking the piss here)

Shit what are you no can i have some. Anyway that the underside of the casings covered in sand and shit and rather beatin up look with the drain plug wired in so it dont undo.

[SixPackBack]

I cringe reading threads such as this. The misinformation and bullshit will at some stage result in some hapless fuck destroying the motor on their bike.

Removing the bolt is straight forward [for a quality tradesman at least]. Re-threading with either a heli-coil type insert or manufactured plug should the hole be destroyed in some manner is straight forward.

BUT...............regardless of the use of vacuum cleaner and/or grease on the re-threading tap or any other manner of minimising the swarf.............a possibility exists that swarf will remain in the crankcase. Individuals should be aware of the potential risk of motor damage from swarf when performing re-threading/inserting procedure on a crankcase.

Disassembly or the use of an endoscope to visually check for remaining swarf should ALWAYS be carried out.

[oldskool]

I cringe reading threads such as this. The misinformation and bullshit will at some stage result in some hapless fuck destroying the motor on their bike.

Removing the bolt is straight forward [for a quality tradesman at least]. Re-threading with either a heli-coil type insert or manufactured plug should the hole be destroyed in some manner is straight forward.

BUT...............regardless of the use of vacuum cleaner and/or grease on the re-threading tap or any other manner of minimising the swarf.............a possibility exists that swarf will remain in the crankcase. Individuals should be aware of the potential risk of motor damage from swarf when performing re-threading/inserting procedure on a crankcase.

Disassembly or the use of an endoscope to visually check for remaining swarf should ALWAYS be carried out.

:laugh: lOve it, good post! :niceone: next we'll be doing a colonoscopy procedure on it!!

[oldskool]

Shit what are you no can i have some. Anyway that the underside of the casings covered in sand and shit and rather beatin up look with the drain plug wired in so it dont undo.

good description, I love the beatin up look.. made my day!

[kezzafish]

lol lol lol. It looks like the turds already on it's way out in the photo

I still don't see it right

[theblacksmith]

Drill the ali casing with the motor upright as usual.During the drilling process (and tapping) have a steady and strong flow of air blowing in through the oil filler hole-so that it blows the swarf out of the hole you are drilling.You will obviously need goggles or a welding mask with a clear lens in it to do this.Also drill it out at a low drill rpm(its ali so should be easy)to save swarf flying around everywhere.After drilling and tapping is done flush the motor through with paraffin or a similar liquid(heaps of it)using clean stuff everytime.
If you aint happy trying this then sadly your only answer is motor out and split casing which turns the job into a days work rather than 15 mins.Not to mention the need for new gaskets,seals etc.
The old plug can be removed by putting a slightly longer wire into a loop and using a lever on it for some downward force to see if thread will catch on itself and unwind.PM me if your stuck mate.Done heaps of them.
And I aint a happles fuck whatever that means.

[oldskool]

Hey theblacksmith, now that must be the most informative reply so far! Thanks for the tips, and if I dont use half of them for this issue I'm sure they'll be invaluable some other time!

I could attach that wire to a scissor jack and wind it closed to apply the tension I guess. Then I could slowly turn the nut to try and catch the thread. It's all in the breathing ay.

[SixPackBack]

Drill the ali casing with the motor upright as usual.During the drilling process (and tapping) have a steady and strong flow of air blowing in through the oil filler hole-so that it blows the swarf out of the hole you are drilling.You will obviously need goggles or a welding mask with a clear lens in it to do this.Also drill it out at a low drill rpm(its ali so should be easy)to save swarf flying around everywhere.After drilling and tapping is done flush the motor through with paraffin or a similar liquid(heaps of it)using clean stuff everytime.
If you aint happy trying this then sadly your only answer is motor out and split casing which turns the job into a days work rather than 15 mins.Not to mention the need for new gaskets,seals etc.
The old plug can be removed by putting a slightly longer wire into a loop and using a lever on it for some downward force to see if thread will catch on itself and unwind.PM me if your stuck mate.Done heaps of them.
And I aint a happles fuck whatever that means.


The hapless fuck comment was not directed at anyone in particular, sorry if you took it the wrong way.

'Blacksmith' however is appropriate. The recommendation of compressed air to remove potential containiments within the motor casing when taping defies any known logic. Expecting said containment's to be blown back through the tap flutes is erroneous, it could be argued that this would result in containments being blown sideways into gears etc. Similarly expecting paraffin or a similar hydrocarbon to flush containments is unsure.

Both break the golden engineering rule of assumption. It is said that 'assumption is the mother of all fuck ups' In this case it most certainly is true.

If it was my 20 yr old gn250 I would take the risk, if however it was my K6 then regardless of the work I would be either stripping the motor or hiring an endoscope to carefully check visually for any remaining swarf.

Oh and the very last technique I would use would include compressed air. That would be one of the worse ideas I have heard of. Turning swarf into potential mini missiles free to travel to the underbelly of your motor is very poor practice.

[oldskool]

The hapless fuck comment was not directed at anyone in particular, sorry if you took it the wrong way.

'Blacksmith' however is appropriate. The recommendation of compressed air to remove potential containiments within the motor casing when taping defies any known logic. Expecting said containment's to be blown back through the tap flutes is erroneous, it could be argued that this would result in containments being blown sideways into gears etc. Similarly expecting paraffin or a similar hydrocarbon to flush containments is unsure.

Both break the golden engineering rule of assumption. It is said that 'assumption is the mother of all fuck ups' In this case it most certainly is true.

If it was my 20 yr old gn250 I would take the risk, if however it was my K6 then regardless of the work I would be either stripping the motor or hiring an endoscope to carefully check visually for any remaining swarf.

Oh and the very last technique I would use would include compressed air. That would be one of the worse ideas I have heard of. Turning swarf into potential mini missiles free to travel to the underbelly of your motor is very poor practice.
wow the mind boggles!! :eek5: that is truly awe inspiring prose indeed!! I will take all that you have said on board, thanks very much!!:yes:

[vr4king]

[FFS sake if were gonna push into a grave you may as well state that a spiral flute tap should be used as they are designed to push the swarf out towards the shank as opposed to a straight fluted(gun tap) which will "push" the swarf forward


some hapless fuck???
We are all here to help mate every situation is different so we are all just going of past experiance im sure NO-ONE is intending him to destroy is engine

which next poo-hole pub we stopping at next?

[B0000M]

which next poo-hole pub we stopping at next?

on that note, i notice a lot of road bikers like to stop at pubs all the time, how many of them are actually riding over the limit? surely there must be a shitload.


enjoy your 2D riding btw lol, ill keep to 3D for now

[theblacksmith]

I think SixPack Back would really like to see you go to the trouble of splitting your motor completely.Whilst your in there you might as well change all the bearings and seals and gaskets.Oh and a conrod kit and piston etc.
Seems a very big cost to rectify a very simple problem which I have seen been done about 5 times now with success. Once in a Suzuki dealership as well.(Where they had to stand by their work)
Its your bike mate - you fix it whatever way suits you.
Go easy on the new sump plug whatever you do.

[scumdog]

The hapless fuck comment was not directed at anyone in particular, sorry if you took it the wrong way.

'Blacksmith' however is appropriate. The recommendation of compressed air to remove potential containiments within the motor casing when taping defies any known logic. Expecting said containment's to be blown back through the tap flutes is erroneous, it could be argued that this would result in containments being blown sideways into gears etc. Similarly expecting paraffin or a similar hydrocarbon to flush containments is unsure.

Both break the golden engineering rule of assumption. It is said that 'assumption is the mother of all fuck ups' In this case it most certainly is true.

If it was my 20 yr old gn250 I would take the risk, if however it was my K6 then regardless of the work I would be either stripping the motor or hiring an endoscope to carefully check visually for any remaining swarf.

Oh and the very last technique I would use would include compressed air. That would be one of the worse ideas I have heard of. Turning swarf into potential mini missiles free to travel to the underbelly of your motor is very poor practice.

I've had success pour a couple of litres of diesel fuel into a motor from the top to flush out all kinds of crap - having said that I'd be tempted to use a rifle bore-scope kinda deal to check all the swarf has gone - if you can.

And thick grease on the tap you use in the first place will help greatly too.

[SixPackBack]

I think SixPack Back would really like to see you go to the trouble of splitting your motor completely.Whilst your in there you might as well change all the bearings and seals and gaskets.Oh and a conrod kit and piston etc.
Seems a very big cost to rectify a very simple problem which I have seen been done about 5 times now with success. Once in a Suzuki dealership as well.(Where they had to stand by their work)
Its your bike mate - you fix it whatever way suits you.
Go easy on the new sump plug whatever you do.

Can you gaurantee your method removes all of the swarf?...........oh and name dropping does not work-I would win!


I've had success pour a couple of litres of diesel fuel into a motor from the top to flush out all kinds of crap - having said that I'd be tempted to use a rifle bore-scope kinda deal to check all the swarf has gone - if you can.

And thick grease on the tap you use in the first place will help greatly too.

The scope is moving closer and so is the grease. However if it was your brand new V-rod and the consequence for leaving a small particle of aluminium or steel behind was a $10000 rebuild would you be 100% confident?

[flyingcr250]

Can you gaurantee your method removes all of the swarf?...........oh and name dropping does not work-I would win!



The scope is moving closer and so is the grease. However if it was your brand new V-rod and the consequence for leaving a small particle of aluminium or steel behind was a $10000 rebuild would you be 100% confident?




another fantastic post from a blacktop bumface who thinks they know every thing.:Punk:

now im not saying my method is without its risks, im just saying its worked for me more than a couple of times.

ive had the same problem before oldschool my method was much the same as theblacksmith's one, i drilled it at low rpm, stepping up a drill size each time i drilled, untill eventually the head of the bolt broke off leaving just the hollow thread in the casing which came out very easily with a small screw driver. then i flushed the casing with diesel, installed the new plug, filled with oil, then rode around on it for a while, drained the oil and checked the magnetic plug(if your bike has one). but like has been said before everyone has their own way. its worked for me without any problems, as well as a couple of mates too.

[kezzafish]

shit oldshool, don't take any calculated risks. don't leave the house mate. we're obviousely all too stupid here to take care of ourselves.

I'd recommend before touching your dirtbike again get a tetnis shot, a rabis swab, spermacide your seat, and wear a large condom over your head for any airborne disease you may come across out there on those dangerous trails.

A buttplug wouldn't go a miss either... ya never know when someone may ask you to sit on their V-rod

[B0000M]

are we talking about an engine oil sump or a trans oil sump?

[Cr1MiNaL]

Haha so glad to see that not only I strip sump plugs! I just took it off and had it re helicioled professionally since it was on my R6 and not worth a nubie mistake!! On a dirt bike would be sweet to try any of the meathods I shd think.

[SixPackBack]

another fantastic post from a blacktop bumface who thinks they know every thing.:Punk:

now im not saying my method is without its risks, im just saying its worked for me more than a couple of times.

ive had the same problem before oldschool my method was much the same as theblacksmith's one, i drilled it at low rpm, stepping up a drill size each time i drilled, untill eventually the head of the bolt broke off leaving just the hollow thread in the casing which came out very easily with a small screw driver. then i flushed the casing with diesel, installed the new plug, filled with oil, then rode around on it for a while, drained the oil and checked the magnetic plug(if your bike has one). but like has been said before everyone has their own way. its worked for me without any problems, as well as a couple of mates too.

Your method does not guarantee the ingress of swarf does it?.......you do it not perform any check afterwards and the fact that you got away with it once or twice is meaningless.

Quick and dirty methods have been presented by a blacksmith and a motor body builder. The correct method and associated risks have been presented by an Engineer.

[SixPackBack]

shit oldshool, don't take any calculated risks. don't leave the house mate. we're obviousely all too stupid here to take care of ourselves.

I'd recommend before touching your dirtbike again get a tetnis shot, a rabis swab, spermacide your seat, and wear a large condom over your head for any airborne disease you may come across out there on those dangerous trails.

A buttplug wouldn't go a miss eather... ya never know when someone may ask you to sit on their V-rod

..................similarly an offset printer is unlikely to be the first port of call when discussing Engineering compromises.

[kezzafish]

I didn't see you suggest anything at all. I saw you tell everyone that they are fuckwits at varying degrees? You will be fantastic in a mangement position

[laserracer]

Yeah ok but ive met plenty of so called engineers that have been wrong in my time also... not that im saying you are wrong, im just saying the other guys just have different opinions on how to fix the problem

[flyingcr250]

Your method does not guarantee the ingress of swarf does it?.......you do it not perform any check afterwards and the fact that you got away with it once or twice is meaningless.

Quick and dirty methods have been presented by a blacksmith and a motor body builder. The correct method and associated risks have been presented by an Engineer.

neither do any of your methods......the fact that your an "engineer" doesnt mean shit, the only way to really be sure is to split the case. in my experience engineers have a tendency to over think problems, and seem to always be on their high horse, turning an easy repair into open heart surgery, your no more qualified than the rest of us in this respect, would you get a geological survey done before digging a hole for a clothesline?? :confused:

rant over:niceone:

was there really any need for the bad rep???? i was just disagreeing with you.

[noobi]

was there really any need for the bad rep???? i was just disagreeing with you.

have you found that only the road riders are the ones who red rep, who in the offroad red reps?

it seems that all recommended methods use the same principle, low speed rpm with lots or grease then flush with something, spb just says use an endoscope to be sure that its well clean.
its your engine OS, do it however you want, just be sensible about it

[flyingcr250]

have you found that only the road riders are the ones who red rep, who in the offroad red reps?


yea both my bad reps are from road bikers. how am i going to sleep at night now.:crybaby:

[IIIRII]

Removing the bolt is straight forward [for a quality tradesman at least]. Re-threading with either a heli-coil type insert or manufactured plug should the hole be destroyed in some manner is straight forward.

BUT...............regardless of the use of vacuum cleaner and/or grease on the re-threading tap or any other manner of minimising the swarf.............a possibility exists that swarf will remain in the crankcase. Individuals should be aware of the potential risk of motor damage from swarf when performing re-threading/inserting procedure on a crankcase.

Ev this is correct.
The other thing is, by the time you go and buy a tap and a new sump plug, you might have well as just got it helicoiled....

PS Re magnetic sump plugs, I fail to see how this will pick up aluminium swarf thats remaining in the sump ...

Helicoil + lots of crankcase flushing.

Sorted.

The safest way is to pull the engine down and tig a new spigot onto the case.

But thats an overkill on your bike.

I have seen and read about car engines (RB26's) being helicoiled in place with no side effects .....
If they are happy to do it on $30,000 engines, the KX should manage ok ....

Its not like its a KTM or something its only an old bomb KX125 :P

[cs363]

was there really any need for the bad rep???? i was just disagreeing with you.

It's unfortunate that there are a few people on here who choose to use red rep when someone doesn't agree with them, instead of actually arguing their case.
This is after all a forum and that's the whole idea of a forum to promote discussion and debate whilst providing useful information.
Spineless pricks like your red repper don't contribute to the site at all IMO.

Personally I think there is hardly ever a reason for red rep, it's something that should be used sparingly if at all.

As far as the methods of dealing with swarf removal, whilst he's technically correct as the last poster says the risk is minimal with a helicoil and lots of flushing. Particularly as it's a gearbox sump plug being a 2 stroke. Any tiny bits of aluminum swarf left after flushing are likely to be removed with subsequent oil changes. You will have to ensure you remove the 'tail' of the heli coil though, so a flexible magnet would be handy if that doesn't come out cleanly.

My rant over now too...

[B0000M]

at the end of the day the gearbox gets full of clutch filings anyway, whats a little bit more shit guna do!

[honda_power]

yea both my bad reps are from road bikers. how am i going to sleep at night now.:crybaby:

join the club

i still dont even know what rep does so doesnt really bother me

[oldskool]

C'mon guys settle down!! There's no need for the personal insults!!! I had a great ride today, let off a lot of steam, seems to me this is what yawl need to do...ride that is!!

What I'm gonna do is ring around, ring Alex Gee too, and get someone who knows what they're doing to do the job. I'll see what they did and let you in on their little trade secrets!!! Hows that?

BTW I do tend to agree with Boom and IIIRII. It is a 2T after all, and if all the swarf doesn't come out what's a few extra really really fine shavings gonna do, really. Flatten and squish around the cogs into nothing and eventually get stuck to the bottom of the casing?

[popelli]

Helicoils are easy to install, just the swarf from the drilling and tapping, then breaking the tail off the heli coil might leave a mess in your motor..

no problem wrap loads of grease on the drill bit and the tap to capture the swarf

re the tang, needle nose pliers to break it off and remove it

[theblacksmith]

[/QUOTE]BTW I do tend to agree with Boom and IIIRII. It is a 2T after all, and if all the swarf doesn't come out what's a few extra really really fine shavings gonna do, really. Flatten and squish around the cogs into nothing and eventually get stuck to the bottom of the casing?[/QUOTE]

I absolutely agree as well- aluminum is the 3rd most malleable metal. I also would like to state that a new or properly sharpened drill bit drilling aluminum at a very slow rpm using paraffin as a cutting aid without going too far into gearbox(measure thickness and have a stop on the drill to prevent going in any further than is needed) and feeding drill constantly into ali will produce 2 swarfs(if you know what youre doing)not millions of missiles as were stated. Only an idiot would force the drill at full rpm and wiggle it in and out of casing.Who was it that mentioned millions of missiles? He who doesn't trust himself usually doesn't trust others either.
Good luck with the repair mate.
Hope we'll catch up on a ride somewhere.

PS- Henry Ford had a team of R&D 'specialist engineers' who ALL told him that a V8 motor was impossible to develop.
Just as well he did'nt listen to any of them!:clap:

[B0000M]

PS- Henry Ford had a team of R&D 'specialist engineers' who ALL told him that a V8 motor was impossible to develop.


there arent many good ones.......

[Motoxparts]

A good engine reconditioner will fix a striped thread will fit a recoil or heicoil that is were the bike shop will take it have a look in the yellow pages under engine reconditioners they also do all the bike shops reboring honing cylinder head work etc

www.motoxparts.co.nz
06 8749495

[SixPackBack]

..............Fook me what a bunch of babies.
I'll keep it simple.

"Unless a visual check is made swarf maybe left in the crankcase"-fact.

Washing with hydrocarbon, blowing with air, using grease on the tap or using your magic wand will not GAURANTEE your crankcase is swarf free.

[Cr1MiNaL]

shit its piss easy, it worked for me no worries... why all the hype over such a simple 2 minute job???

[theblacksmith]

shit its piss easy, it worked for me no worries... why all the hype over such a simple 2 minute job???

Of course it is mate- I found it easier than wiping my arse in a Portaloo.
Fuck - did I need an endoscope for that as well maybe?
To be sure to be sure.:msn-wink:

PS - SPB - How do you spell GUARANTEE again Mr Informed?:bleh:

Ooooh - I see I have my first red rep lol.
Nice contrast in amongst them green ones choice...Chuurrrrr!

[SixPackBack]

shit its piss easy, it worked for me no worries... why all the hype over such a simple 2 minute job???



Of course it is mate- I found it easier than wiping my arse in a Portaloo.
Fuck - did I need an endoscope for that as well maybe?
To be sure to be sure.:msn-wink:

PS - SPB - How do you spell GUARANTEE again Mr Informed?:bleh:

Ooooh - I see I have my first red rep lol.
Nice contrast in amongst them green ones choice...Chuurrrrr!

How did either of you check to make absolutely sure that no swarf was left in the crankcase?

[jonbuoy]

..............Fook me what a bunch of babies.
I'll keep it simple.

"Unless a visual check is made swarf maybe left in the crankcase"-fact.

Washing with hydrocarbon, blowing with air, using grease on the tap or using your magic wand will not GAURANTEE your crankcase is swarf free.




Ok to be 100% sure the sump is swarf free you would need a complete strip. Worst case scenario of a bit of swarf left in the sump would also result in a shorter time to the next rebuild and a complete strip. Like has been said the right speed, lube, drill bit steady hand and a vacuum cleaner and it will be OK. Theres a fair amount of shite at the bottom of most sumps anyway.

[Cr1MiNaL]

How did either of you check to make absolutely sure that no swarf was left in the crankcase?


Yes of cause !! With a magnifying glass !! :shit: I am MR PEDANTIC when it comes to my bike.

U mean the sump housing eh... on the 6 the sump unbolts from right under the crank ;) Yamaha ingenuity FTW

[SixPackBack]

Ok to be 100% sure the sump is swarf free you would need a complete strip. Worst case scenario of a bit of swarf left in the sump would also result in a shorter time to the next rebuild and a complete strip. Like has been said the right speed, lube, drill bit steady hand and a vacuum cleaner and it will be OK. Theres a fair amount of shite at the bottom of most sumps anyway.

After 4 high mileage motorcycles I have yet to experience any of this 'shite'. Sounds like justification for poor engineering practice.


Yes of cause !! With a magnifying glass !! :shit: I am MR PEDANTIC when it comes to my bike.

U mean the sump housing eh... on the 6 the sump unbolts from right under the crank ;) Yamaha ingenuity FTW

Certainly makes life easier having the plate. Guaranteed result if and when squidly yamaha owners fuck the sump plug!?

Many of you attest that 'shite' in the sump is ever present, normal even; and that introducing a little more would have little affect. Question why your motorcycle engine has a closed loop lubrication system containing a filter that is designed to remove particles smaller than 0.02mm?

[jonbuoy]

After 4 high mileage motorcycles I have yet to experience any of this 'shite'. Sounds like justification for poor engineering practice.



Certainly makes life easier having the plate. Guaranteed result if and when squidly yamaha owners fuck the sump plug!?

Many of you attest that 'shite' in the sump is ever present, normal even; and that introducing a little more would have little affect. Question why your motorcycle engine has a closed loop lubrication system containing a filter that is designed to remove particles smaller than 0.02mm?



So every time you´ve dropped the sump on those four bikes its been 100% clean? Many attest to it because we´ve seen it with our own eyes. The "shite" normally can´t get through the oil pump screen and doesn´t get back into the lube system or the filter.

[B0000M]

So every time you´ve dropped the sump on those four bikes its been 100% clean? Many attest to it because we´ve seen it with our own eyes. The "shite" normally can´t get through the oil pump screen and doesn´t get back into the lube system or the filter.

and then we look up and realise we are talking irrelevant rubbush, this is an off road section of the forum, and therefore the topic is relevant to an off road bike, none of which im aware of have removable sumps.

also its a transmission sump, and therefore has no filter, and it is normal to have shite in there from the clutch filings, which are normal, because dirt bike clutches are meant to be slipped during normal riding.

[Ride it till the red]

and then we look up and realise we are talking irrelevant rubbush, this is an off road section of the forum, and therefore the topic is relevant to an off road bike, none of which im aware of have removable sumps.

also its a transmission sump, and therefore has no filter, and it is normal to have shite in there from the clutch filings, which are normal, because dirt bike clutches are meant to be slipped during normal riding.


Nuff said! Never done a change without seeing em, never expect to....

If it hasn't already been done (missed the last couple pages coz it got repetitive) when mine was done recently a bit of paper towel was stuck in to block things dropping, grease stopped it even getting that far anyway... vaccumed out then paper towel pulled out with tweezers and i gave it a quick flush before filling and changed sooner than normal just incase... No worries!

[SixPackBack]

..............Rough coonts. Lazy too!

[Ixion]

After 4 high mileage motorcycles I have yet to experience any of this 'shite'. Sounds like justification for poor engineering practice.



Certainly makes life easier having the plate. Guaranteed result if and when squidly yamaha owners fuck the sump plug!?

Many of you attest that 'shite' in the sump is ever present, normal even; and that introducing a little more would have little affect. Question why your motorcycle engine has a closed loop lubrication system containing a filter that is designed to remove particles smaller than 0.02mm?



On a KX125? Don't think so.

[jonbuoy]

and then we look up and realise we are talking irrelevant rubbush, this is an off road section of the forum, and therefore the topic is relevant to an off road bike, none of which im aware of have removable sumps.

also its a transmission sump, and therefore has no filter, and it is normal to have shite in there from the clutch filings, which are normal, because dirt bike clutches are meant to be slipped during normal riding.

I can't work out if were arguing the same side or not - I was agreeing that it will be OK to helocoil in place. Doesn't matter if it was a two stroke road or off road or a four stroke on/off road.

[The Pastor]

I'll tell ya what to do,

sump plug wont come out, leave it there, get a drill (or a big nail and hammer) and make a hole next to the sump bolt. Then the oil will come out ez.

Then put some race tape over it, refill and your sweet.

[oldskool]

I'll tell ya what to do,

sump plug wont come out, leave it there, get a drill (or a big nail and hammer) and make a hole next to the sump bolt. Then the oil will come out ez.

Then put some race tape over it, refill and your sweet.

What a great idea!!!! I might just do that!! :niceone:
Except now that I've been dicking with the plug it's starting to drip a bit. :no:
Hmmmm would a banana peel stuffed in the filler hole stop the drip?:wari:

[flyingcr250]

What a great idea!!!! I might just do that!! :niceone:
Except now that I've been dicking with the plug it's starting to drip a bit. :no:
Hmmmm would a banana peel stuffed in the filler hole stop the drip?:wari:

ha ha ha that sounds familiar, when my granddad sold his valiant he stuffed a banana in the gearbox to quieten it down a bit lol:wari:

[oldskool]

ha ha ha that sounds familiar, when my granddad sold his valiant he stuffed a banana in the gearbox to quieten it down a bit lol:wari:
I did that to the diff on my old Holden EH S/W hahaha