So now we know...

[rainman]

...how much a personal guarantee from John Key is worth.

Bet all you geniuses who voted for "the tax cut party" are feeling really smart now, huh? :doh:


:done:

[James Deuce]

Anyone who votes for a political party purely on the basis of "promises" deserves the resulting gaping anus.

Anyone who does it twice should never be allowed to vote again.

[Mully]

I got a tax cut in April.

And I think more people voted against Liarbour than voted for National

[NighthawkNZ]

i got a tax cut... more than i got from labour in 9 years

national didn't win... just that labour lost

[Maha]

...how much a personal guarantee from John Key is worth.

Bet all you geniuses who voted for "the tax cut party" are feeling really smart now, huh? :doh:


:done:

I happen to think hes alright but, and naturally, his pre-election policies were just that...pre. What would you expect from a person who desperately wanted the Prime job? Say whatever it takes, once in power, you can change the game plan. Mr Keys applauds Bad Boy Bill..its all his fault anyway eh?..:shifty:

[steve_t]

...how much a personal guarantee from John Key is worth.

Bet all you geniuses who voted for "the tax cut party" are feeling really smart now, huh? :doh:


:done:

Who'd you vote for? The party that systematically fuct the country over 9 years and intentionally hid a $1.5b deficit in the ACC non-earner account just before elections? The same one that also decided to pay $500m out of the government coffers for the treelord thingy when they knew they were about to lose the election etc etc etc. Or did you vote for the Bill & Ben Party?
We should be glad we got any tax cuts at all after Labour left us royally screwed. So don't blame the 'tax cut party' for not being able to give us tax cuts.
Rant rant. :jerry:
Standards and Poors just upgraded the outlook for the country so they must think the budget looks pretty alright. You can only do the best with what you're given.
That said, not sure about their decision on super. Guess we'll see in the years to come

[James Deuce]

Standards and Poors just upgraded the outlook for the country so they must think the budget looks pretty alright. You can only do the best with what you're given.
That said, not sure about their decision on super. Guess we'll see in the years to come

Now for interest rates to drop.

The super decision is at best a gamble and worst total folly. The number of retirees as a population percentage is about to go through the roof.

[paturoa]

...how much a personal guarantee from John Key is worth.

I dont recall a personal guarantee, can you please provide linky.

[cowpoos]

...how much a personal guarantee from John Key is worth.

Bet all you geniuses who voted for "the tax cut party" are feeling really smart now, huh? :doh:


:done:

Get you fricken head out of the sand you fool!!! I'm glad genius's like you don't have anything to do with politics!!

[Trudes]

Tell me I don't know anything, but....
it seems to me that possibly just possibly when Key/National made "promises" of tax cuts the extent of the financial recession was not fully known. Now that it is and the Budget was done something had to give in order for the country to not fall into deeper debt, now if that means I don't get an extra $10 a fortnight in my take home pay then so be it. Surely the run on effects for the country being in massive amounts of debt just so they can fulfill pre-election promises is not worth a few extra bucks for those who would actually have benefitted? I don't know, just my take on it, go ahead and tell me I'm wrong.... and why so I can learn. Cheers.

[YellowDog]

It was an interesting budget. Clearly what he thought he could afford before seeing the mess he had been left with plus the global economic changes has meant that it just couldn't be done.

There is definitely egg on his face over this enforced U-Turn however it appears that mostly all have been suprisingly understanding.

I suspect the interest rate drop from 10% - 6% has been of most benefit. For those on fixed rates hopefully they will still get this non-John Key benefit before they haead back up to the unexplicably acceptable 10% rate.

[piston broke]

...how much a personal guarantee from John Key is worth.

Bet all you geniuses who voted for "the tax cut party" are feeling really smart now, huh? :doh:


:done:

surely,
you didn't really think they could do tax cuts when the world economy is going to hell.:no:

[Maha]

surely,
you didn't really think they could do tax cuts when the world econemy is going to hell.:no:

Thank god (or the National Party) for smokers eh?
That (close on 1 billion dollars in taxes each year) surely must help a wee bit?

[Winston001]

Make the pie higher.

[EJT]

Now politics bores me to death and they are all a bunch of lying tossers who will say anything to get votes, but I must say I have some worries about the aging population of this country and whether the gov can afford to pay Super in the future given suspension of the Super Fund and Kiwi Saver changes that make it less attractive to save (so people won't).

Should be a real problem around the time I retire - great. Maybe I should start making some overdraft applications to Westpac:Punk::Punk:

[Skyryder]

...how much a personal guarantee from John Key is worth.

Bet all you geniuses who voted for "the tax cut party" are feeling really smart now, huh? :doh:


:done:

Yep. True. Key was flogging off the tax cuts prior to the election as a means to 'stimulate' the economy now we are in a recession he bins the tax cuts and says that we can not afford them.

Just more lies from the smiling mouth.


Skyryder

[want-a-harley]

1, Tax cuts obviously means sweet fuck all, 10 bucks a week now, raising to 20 (if fully implemented) whoopdy-doo.

2, I don't think they should implement the next tax cuts because of the current economy, however they did harp on about it for like 3 years, so it's a bit of a pain as it was one of their main election "promises". Economies go in cycles and looking at the housing market it was overdue to burst, so there was always a possibility of not being able to implement them

3, You may say, well Labour should've given tax cuts earlier. Well if they had we'd be in even bigger shite now and even more in dept.

Think not putting into super and decreasing funding for R & D, will come back to bite us in the arse, but only time will tell.

Insulation subsidy is good seeing as NZ houses are fucking cold.

Would've liked to see something to help stimulate job growth.

[want-a-harley]

Thank god (or the National Party) for smokers eh?
That (close on 1 billion dollars in taxes each year) surely must help a wee bit?

How much of that goes straight into hospital care for them later in life?

[325rocket]

...how much a personal guarantee from John Key is worth.

Bet all you geniuses who voted for "the tax cut party" are feeling really smart now, huh? :doh:
:done:


you must be kidding???

Seen the papers lately? You might want to have a look, there’s some things going on with the economy you may be interested in ...

I voted for them and have to say im still pretty happy with all they have done.
Would you prefer Phil Goff hahahaha.

[shafty]

...how much a personal guarantee from John Key is worth.

Bet all you geniuses who voted for "the tax cut party" are feeling really smart now, huh? :doh:


:done:

Get a life;

I voted for him and would've been dissappointed if the tax cuts HAD gone ahead.

At least now we have a successful Business person managing our taxes and assets

[Devil]

It was an interesting budget. Clearly what he thought he could afford before seeing the mess he had been left with plus the global economic changes has meant that it just couldn't be done.

There is definitely egg on his face over this enforced U-Turn however it appears that mostly all have been suprisingly understanding.

I suspect the interest rate drop from 10% - 6% has been of most benefit. For those on fixed rates hopefully they will still get this non-John Key benefit before they haead back up to the unexplicably acceptable 10% rate.

I agree completely (and with Trudes). What a hospital pass.
People can moan all they like about not following through with a tax cut now, but it would have been completely irresponsible to do so.

[Skyryder]

Get a life;

I voted for him and would've been dissappointed if the tax cuts HAD gone ahead.

At least now we have a successful Business person managing our taxes and assets



So Key knows what he is doing??:jerry: Yes he does, he's fucking us all. and that 's those that voted him in. :shit: Perhaps you can explain the following where Key was promoting tax in October 2008 cuts to stimulate the economy and now that the economy needs stimulating.........no tax cuts.

Key presented the tax cuts as part of an economic recovery programme National has worked out to bring New Zealand through the international credit crisis.

From http://tvnz.co.nz/content/2186110

Source TVNZ News October 8 2008

And further to his lies to the NZ public
http://images.tvnz.co.nz/tvnz_images/news2009/politics-generic/tax_policy_paper.pdf

See para 5 from above link.

In the short term, National’s tax package will give households confidence and some cash in their back pockets to keep the economy going and to pay down debt.

Key sold the tax cuts as a means of stimulating the economy now he has changed his mind to soften up the public for further asset sales on the grounds that private industry can make a better go than government. Max Bradford used a similar analogy and looked what that has cost the taxpayer



Skyryder

[Conquiztador]

I think it was a brave budget. There is a resession going on after all. A serious one!

- 20 hours free childcare for all 5 year olds. That is a tax cut for all families with 5 year old kids.
- Additional money in to education and increases in teacher wages. Better then any tax cuts.
- More police. 50% of them in to south Auckland.
- Keeping the Family Tax credit, the funding for child families and the benefit.
And there was money for hospitals, for roads etc.

And all this by not giving us $10 more per week and stalling the super fund until there is a surplus. Impressive! White mans magic if you ask me!

Perhaps we will see our country run like a business at last??

[Robert Taylor]

...how much a personal guarantee from John Key is worth.

Bet all you geniuses who voted for "the tax cut party" are feeling really smart now, huh? :doh:


:done:

1 ) The Labour ( Failure ) party were very ''economical with the truth'' re how actually bare the cupboard was.

2) We are in a recession and all of the stupid spending that Labour did in the last nine years has made the effect of that needlessly worse.

3) All of the stupid extra levies and stealth taxes that Labour applied in its 9 years really impacts on the cost of running businesses and therefore also the ability to employ. Tax the so called ''rich'' and it ends up costing the average man in the street.

4) These National guys have actually got guts, theyre not a pack of spineless tossers like ''that lot''

5) There are less homos in the National party.

Etcetera...............

I didnt vote for National because of the tax cut policy, Ive always voted for them because they have a better balanced philosophy and they dont attract morons like Ruth Dyson and Trevor Mallard into their fold.

[MisterD]

So Key knows what he is doing??:jerry: Yes he does, he's fucking us all. and that 's those that voted him in. :shit: Perhaps you can explain the following where Key was promoting tax in October 2008 cuts to stimulate the economy and now that the economy needs stimulating.........no tax cuts.

Mayhap you've not seen the data showing that per capita our stimulus is about #3 or so in global terms? I'm thankful that unlike my poor rellies in the UK or the suckers that wanted "change to believe in" in the US of A, I'm not going to be saddled with a share of some astrofuckingnomical debt.

I'm no Bill English fan (as previously disclosed I'd have Sir Roger in the chair any day), but I reckon he's made the best of the bad job that that fuckwit Cullen left him. Recognising that from a pragmatically political POV Sir Roger's medicine would just taste to bad to the coddled kiwi electorate, addicted as they are to Liabore's spend spend spendism.

[Robert Taylor]

Yep. True. Key was flogging off the tax cuts prior to the election as a means to 'stimulate' the economy now we are in a recession he bins the tax cuts and says that we can not afford them.

Just more lies from the smiling mouth.


Skyryder

Oh for gods sake, theres no money in the cupboard! Plain and simple. Lucky we havent got that cocky smart alec sawn off rooster Cullen in control of the purse strings anymore.

[MisterD]

1 ) The Labour ( Failure ) party were very ''economical with the truth'' re how actually bare the cupboard was.


Ha! Come on Robert, you know as well as I do that Cullen's last budget was an exercise in "scorched earth" to make this task as difficult as possible for Key and English...it's not like you to be so reticent, :eek:

[Robert Taylor]

Mayhap you've not seen the data showing that per capita our stimulus is about #3 or so in global terms? I'm thankful that unlike my poor rellies in the UK or the suckers that wanted "change to believe in" in the US of A, I'm not going to be saddled with a share of some astrofuckingnomical debt.

I'm no Bill English fan (as previously disclosed I'd have Sir Roger in the chair any day), but I reckon he's made the best of the bad job that that fuckwit Cullen left him. Recognising that from a pragmatically political POV Sir Roger's medicine would just taste to bad to the coddled kiwi electorate, addicted as they are to Liabore's spend spend spendism.


Yep, Englands in an even worse mess than Labour left it in in 1979. Now another incoming Tory administration ( hopefully sooner rather than later for our English cousins ) will have to repeat the amazing feat that Margaret Thatcher achieved, subsequently squandered by Gordon Botchup Brown.
Common denominator of ruin, Labour governments.

[Robert Taylor]

Ha! Come on Robert, you know as well as I do that Cullen's last budget was an exercise in "scorched earth" to make this task as difficult as possible for Key and English...it's not like you to be so reticent, :eek:

I think that may be painfully close to the truth. That lot should never ever have power again.

[piston broke]

So Key knows what he is doing??:jerry: Yes he does,

Skyryder

so, if we got a tax cut where do you want the cut's to reflect?

health,education etc.do you want those expendtures cut too?:no:

oh,and those of you bitchin about smokers,do you realise that the smokers taxes pay way more in tax than they will ever use in healthcare.

smokers taxes damn near pay for most of nz's health services.

sadly i pay approx $+1.4k/yr,in tobacco tax.

yep stupid me but,it is what it is.i have been paying that for more than 20/yrs,so thats about $28.000 extra tax,and if i do get some shitty disease from it i will probably die pretty quick,so i doubt i will get the use of that $28k

[NighthawkNZ]

sadly i pay approx $+1.4k/yr,in tobacco tax.

yep stupid me but,it is what it is.i have been paying that for more than 20/yrs,so thats about $28.000 extra tax,and if i do get some shitty disease from it i will probably die pretty quick,so i doubt i will get the use of that $28k


Smoking more will get us out of the recession then... cool :chase:

[FJRider]

Smoking more will get us out of the recession then... cool :chase:

So those of you that don't smoke ... light up and help save us from recession .... :Punk:

[Shadows]

Tell me I don't know anything, but....
it seems to me that possibly just possibly when Key/National made "promises" of tax cuts the extent of the financial recession was not fully known.

Being the financial expert that he is I think it would be almost an insult to presume that he wasn't expecting the recession to deepen. He would surely have seen the signs.

However, what he did not know was the extent to which the lying scumsucking wankers previously in charge had fucked up the country's finances - that only became apparent after the election and the books were opened to reveal the truth the pieces of shit had been keeping from us.

I was surprised we even got the first round of tax cuts after that.

[Genestho]

Being the financial expert that he is I think it would be almost an insult to presume that he wasn't expecting the recession to deepen. He would surely have seen the signs.
I agree, the writing was on the wall 3 years ago in the housing markets, in the US. Homeowners were fixing huge debt against 0.5% (I think?) and there was a wave of home owners coming off those fixed 5 year rates onto 5%. It was almost like watching dominoes go down.

However, what he did not know was the extent to which the lying scumsucking wankers previously in charge had fucked up the country's finances - that only became apparent after the election and the books were opened to reveal the truth the pieces of shit had been keeping from us.

I was surprised we even got the first round of tax cuts after that.

I agree, and, it would've been absolutely foolish to give out tax cuts under these circumstances. I'm not sure anyone could've really predicted the depth of this recession.

[Skyryder]

Mayhap you've not seen the data showing that per capita our stimulus is about #3 or so in global terms? I'm thankful that unlike my poor rellies in the UK or the suckers that wanted "change to believe in" in the US of A, I'm not going to be saddled with a share of some astrofuckingnomical debt.

I'm no Bill English fan (as previously disclosed I'd have Sir Roger in the chair any day), but I reckon he's made the best of the bad job that that fuckwit Cullen left him. Recognising that from a pragmatically political POV Sir Roger's medicine would just taste to bad to the coddled kiwi electorate, addicted as they are to Liabore's spend spend spendism.




Key specifically sold the tax cuts to the electorate as an economic package to stimulate the economy. Fact.

The Nats were claiming at the last election that the economy was in a mess. Fact This was stated in a number of occasions by Key in the TV debates. Fact.

So why in a recession would Key not want to use the measures (tax cuts) that he said would work in his election campaign?

And I need not remind that Tax cuts were the main election policy of the Nats. Oh and another fact is that Keys word means absolutly nothing.


Skyryder

[Shadows]

So why in a recession would Key not want to use the measures (tax cuts) that he said would work in his election campaign?

Because it wasn't clear until later that the previous government had almost bankrupted the country - at that point it became blatantly obvious that measures such as the full round of tax cuts were no longer affordable.

[Robert Taylor]

Key specifically sold the tax cuts to the electorate as an economic package to stimulate the economy. Fact.

The Nats were claiming at the last election that the economy was in a mess. Fact This was stated in a number of occasions by Key in the TV debates. Fact.

So why in a recession would Key not want to use the measures (tax cuts) that he said would work in his election campaign?

And I need not remind that Tax cuts were the main election policy of the Nats. Oh and another fact is that Keys word means absolutly nothing.


Skyryder

And the books were far worse than the Homosexual party let on, FACT.

Another fact, your opinion is heavily outnumbered and I suggest you burn your copies of ''The life and times of Chairman Mao'' and ''The golden years of the German Democratic Republic'' by Erich Honecker.

[Hitcher]

Bet all you geniuses who voted for "the tax cut party" are feeling really smart now, huh?

So instead we should have voted for the other lot who left the Government's accounts in tatters, deliberately misleading the New Zealand electorate about the ACC deficit or the true cost of the Kiwi Rail purchase, amongst other things?

It would have been more "dishonest" to give New Zealanders tax cuts than to man-up and make fiscally prudent decisions.

A stable Standard & Poor's AA+ rating is a magnificent outcome, all things considered.

[Cosmo]

So those of you that don't smoke ... light up and help save us from recession .... :Punk:

What about drinking. Will drinking a lot more help us out of the recession.:beer:

[FJRider]

What about drinking. Will drinking a lot more help us out of the recession.:beer:

Not sure, shall we try it and see ... :beer:

[monkeymcbean]

1 ) The Labour ( Failure ) party were very ''economical with the truth'' re how actually bare the cupboard was.

2) We are in a recession and all of the stupid spending that Labour did in the last nine years has made the effect of that needlessly worse.

3) All of the stupid extra levies and stealth taxes that Labour applied in its 9 years really impacts on the cost of running businesses and therefore also the ability to employ. Tax the so called ''rich'' and it ends up costing the average man in the street.

4) These National guys have actually got guts, theyre not a pack of spineless tossers like ''that lot''

5) There are less homos in the National party.

Etcetera...............

I didnt vote for National because of the tax cut policy, Ive always voted for them because they have a better balanced philosophy and they dont attract morons like Ruth Dyson and Trevor Mallard into their fold.



Well when Labour left the cupboards may have been empty, but the country was not left with huge overseas debts to pay. Remember the National days of Robert Muldoon and his 'think big' strategy. Borrowed huge amounts of money, to pump into huge industrial projects so the benefits would trickle down, didn't work. Oh god 'ground hog day'!! and its 2009 whats National doing, borrow borrow borrow.

[Hitcher]

its 2009 whats National doing, borrow borrow borrow.

I suggest you take some time to read The Budget more closely.

[monkeymcbean]

I suggest you take some time to read The Budget more closely.

Yes a hasty comment, and I will read it a little more throughly, but i do get worried when a Governments want to borrow lots of money.

[Skyryder]

And the books were far worse than the Homosexual party let on, FACT.

Another fact, your opinion is heavily outnumbered and I suggest you burn your copies of ''The life and times of Chairman Mao'' and ''The golden years of the German Democratic Republic'' by Erich Honecker.



So what has your implied statism got to do with Key reneging on his tax policy??



Skyryder

[MaxB]

I'm no Bill English fan (as previously disclosed I'd have Sir Roger in the chair any day)
[/SIZE]

I agree Sir Roger should be in the chair. I'll help you plug it in and throw the switch if you like.

He had his chance under Labour and completely fucked up. Roger fucken nomics. Never again.

[Mully]

He had his chance under Labour and completely fucked up. Roger fucken nomics. Never again.

Can someone unbiased about Rogernomics please PM me.

My understanding (I'm 28 for reference purposes) is that it was a bitter pill to swallow at the time, but it was, on reflection, a good thing for the country (removed trade barriers, etc).

Don't want to take this off topic, so if someone could PM me about it, that'd be good.

[Grumpy Gnomb]

But which govt got us into this mess in the first place. It was not National that made the big whole in all the accounts and than not tell anyone about it. Labour had 9 years in power so dont blame the new govt

[Naki Rat]

Get you fricken head out of the sand you fool!!! I'm glad genius's like you don't have anything to do with politics!!

Well said. But to prove that we do have 'geniuses' involved in politics it has been very humourous to hear Phil Goff mouthing off about the budget and proving exactly why Liarbour went for the high jump 6 months ago.

[steve_t]

Get you fricken head out of the sand you fool!!! I'm glad genius's like you don't have anything to do with politics!!

But they do! This is why democracy is doomed for failure. Everyone's vote is just as valid and valuable as the next person's. Once the ignorant outnumber the informed, Labour will be back in power :laugh: Actually, I think this has already happened but luckily a lot of the ignorant are too apathetic to get to a polling booth :done:

[MisterD]

Key specifically sold the tax cuts to the electorate as an economic package to stimulate the economy. Fact.

The Nats were claiming at the last election that the economy was in a mess. Fact This was stated in a number of occasions by Key in the TV debates. Fact.

...and how many holes did Labour hide in the prefu? FFS, the treasury predictions were for a $3bn surplus, we now have a $8bn deficit! A downgrade of our credit rating would have cost a conservative estimate of $600m for absolutely nothing.




So why in a recession would Key not want to use the measures (tax cuts) that he said would work in his election campaign?

Because it's political pragmatism - it's easier to take away something that was promised but not yet given than something the electorate already have. What part of that don't you understand, or are you also having trouble re-adjusting to a government that makes sensible pragmatic decisions rather than being a bunch of ideologically driven idiots?



And I need not remind that Tax cuts were the main election policy of the Nats. Oh and another fact is that Keys word means absolutly nothing.


1) Just because the elecorate latched onto the promise because they were desperate after years of being robbed by Cullen does not make it "the main policy". You and Phil-in may passionately believe that tax cuts were the only reason that Liarbore lost, but you're kidding yourselves.

2) Liarbore had no election policy other than "throw shit at John Key" so STFU.

[MSTRS]

What's this about a 'tax cut party' ???
National simply said they would meet Liarbore's promises. The very ones that Liarbore had whittered on about for years, but failed to really live up to...have you finished your chewing gum yet?

[Hitcher]

I agree Sir Roger should be in the chair. I'll help you plug it in and throw the switch if you like.

He had his chance under Labour and completely fucked up. Roger fucken nomics. Never again.

Roger Douglas and the Lange Government have been harshly and unfairly judged by people with short term memories and tenuous grips on reality.

Rob Muldoon called a snap election in 1984 for three reasons: 1. Marilyn Waring had recent crossed the floor to vote with the opposition on nuclear free legislation, 2. the economy was worse than a basket case, and 3. he was pissed and thought it was a good idea.

The economy was an absolute basket case, largely due to a significantly overvalued dollar and a regulatory framework that some observers to note perceptively that it was worse than a Polish shipyard.

The incoming government really had no option other than to embark on the Roger Douglas-led reforms -- many of which (such as the floating dollar, workplace unions, and absence of foreign exchange regulations) endure.

I am curious to know how people who lambast Roger Douglas believe he has inflicted on them that is worthy of the venom they level at him. He was a visionary reformer at a time when New Zealand needed one.

[MSTRS]

Can someone unbiased about Rogernomics please PM me.

My understanding (I'm 28 for reference purposes) is that it was a bitter pill to swallow at the time, but it was, on reflection, a good thing for the country (removed trade barriers, etc).

Don't want to take this off topic, so if someone could PM me about it, that'd be good.

Bugger the PM, lots of younguns might want to know...
My take, in a nutshell, was that when Liarbore took the '84 election, the country was in the shit due to Muldoon's style of government. So Rogernomics concentrated on reducing debt by selling off some strategic SOEs, and altering the way business of all types was done by removing tariffs on imported goods, and ceasing farmer subsidies. In other words, creating a free-market system. A local manufacturer had to compete against cheaper overseas (read Asian) products, or go under. Most went under.

[Brett]

Yeah sure....

The worlds economy is falling apart at the seams, governments are desperately trying to stimulate economies yet bolster the necessary spending (and extra spending they are having to make) and yet, we are still entitled to a tax break?

I read a really interesting book a while ago and it said something interesting and true.

Paraphrased:

The people who are complaining about taxes are the poor and middle class. The rish use their financial aids (such as accountants etc.) to minimise their tax liabilities and pay as little tax as possible.

Now I am not in the rish category *yet*, but I see truth in this arguement. My father in law for example who was paying personal income tax just from his day job well into the upper tax bracket and then still had significant income generated from a stocks portfolio and still legitimately got his tax bill down to 2% of his total income...
Stop the bitching and moaning and look for ways to help yourself out without the government having to do it for you.
FACT - No government is looking out for your specific well being, you need to do that yourself. So get onto it.

[Hitcher]

A local manufacturer had to compete against cheaper overseas (read Asian) products, or go under. Most went under.

But again it's not as simple as that. Most New Zealand manufacturing was heavily subsidised and so too was agriculture. This took the form of either direct government financial support or other mechanisms such as import licensing. The costs of this were spectacular. Government support of the sheepmeat industry cost $1 million a day for the 1,000 days it ran. The auto-assembly industry cost the taxpayer $275,000 per job. Those examples are tasters for similar scenarios across the economy.

Prior to import restrictions being phased out a $5 T-shirt cost $65. Now they cost $5.

The State-Owned Enterprise issue is a whole different can of worms. But there were good reasons for the decisions made in 1984 -- NZ Rail, for example, employed over 20,000 people doing god-knows what. There were similarly bloated government agencies all over the place.

[Marmoot]

...how much a personal guarantee from John Key is worth.

Bet all you geniuses who voted for "the tax cut party" are feeling really smart now, huh? :doh:


:done:

The tax cut became a moot point as soon as the billion-dollar hole in ACC pocket was revealed.

I bet you geniuses who voted for "the ACC party" in the previous election are feeling really smart now, huh? :doh:

[Winston001]

My understanding (I'm 28 for reference purposes) is that it was a bitter pill to swallow at the time, but it was, on reflection, a good thing for the country (removed trade barriers, etc).



The above answers are good.

Essentially NZ in 1984 was a command economy, controlled by Robert Muldoon, labelled Fortress New Zealand. The economic principle was "borrow and hope". Make imports expensive, subsidise areas of the economy, and wait for world meat/wool/dairy/fish/timber prices to recover. When that happened we'd recover and be rich.

The fact that it took until 2000 for this to happen could never have been foreseen by Muldoon.

But forget about Muldoon. From about 1981 the USA under Reagan and the UK under Thatcher began to change to open market economies. Other nations followed.

The changes were influenced by Milton Friedman and the Chicago School of Economics in what is called neo-classicism and liberalism. Free markets.

Many Kiwis are so insular they do not realise that Roger Douglas was far from alone on the world stage and his ideas were shared by many other governments. The reason there is so much hot comment about Douglas is the speed of change and shock to a socialist nation. There is still bitterness 25 years later. :shit:

It is fair to say that neo-classicism has it's faults - eg. the dot.com bubble, and the current recession caused by unregulated capital flows.

[Mully]

The tax cut became a moot point as soon as the billion-dollar hole in ACC pocket was revealed.

I bet you geniuses who voted for "the ACC party" in the previous election are feeling really smart now, huh? :doh:

Ironically, if the Nats had carried on with the tax cuts, this thread would be the whinging lefties screaming about how it's unaffordabe and irresponsible, etc.......

Good times.

[monkeymcbean]

But again it's not as simple as that. Most New Zealand manufacturing was heavily subsidised and so too was agriculture. This took the form of either direct government financial support or other mechanisms such as import licensing. The costs of this were spectacular. Government support of the sheepmeat industry cost $1 million a day for the 1,000 days it ran. The auto-assembly industry cost the taxpayer $275,000 per job. Those examples are tasters for similar scenarios across the economy.

Prior to import restrictions being phased out a $5 T-shirt cost $65. Now they cost $5.

The State-Owned Enterprise issue is a whole different can of worms. But there were good reasons for the decisions made in 1984 -- NZ Rail, for example, employed over 20,000 people doing god-knows what. There were similarly bloated government agencies all over the place.




Sir Rogers whole reason for being was the removal of privilege, which the bleaters want reinstated.

[rainman]

Well, that was the most fun I've had all week... :laugh:


Anyone who votes for a political party purely on the basis of "promises" deserves the resulting gaping anus.

True, and kinda part of my point.


And I think more people voted against Liarbour than voted for National

Absolutely true. But not the only option.


I happen to think hes alright but, and naturally, his pre-election policies were just that...pre. What would you expect from a person who desperately wanted the Prime job? Say whatever it takes, once in power, you can change the game plan.

I believe people (such as me) were making this point before the election, but were roundly denounced for saying such rude things about that trustworthy Mr Key.


Who'd you vote for?

Green. For their integrity, but also because they're least worst. Yes seriously.


Get you fricken head out of the sand you fool!!! I'm glad genius's like you don't have anything to do with politics!!

LOLZ :) On so many levels.


Tell me I don't know anything, but....
it seems to me that possibly just possibly when Key/National made "promises" of tax cuts the extent of the financial recession was not fully known.

Personally, I had no issue with tax levels pre-election and said then that it should not have been the main issue of the election, but the electorate got pretty fired up about the way that "Liabour" had been stealing from them for years, too much of their money going to causes they don't support etc.

We are now left with a choice, either:
1. Key and the Nats lied to gain office and are as much a bunch of brazen power seekers as Labour. Bill's taped comments at that Nat function were true, in other words.
2. They are incompetent at risk management - either not foreseeing the current state of the economy, or making a bunch of bold assumptions about the state of the NZ books.

Either way they can't be trusted - particularly as these are dark times. Given they campaigned on trust (and Labour campaigned against their trustworthiness) this is significant, and so I thought I'd do the public service of pointing it out.


surely,
you didn't really think they could do tax cuts when the world economy is going to hell.:no:

No. But then I was sure they were bullshitting all along.


1, Tax cuts obviously means sweet fuck all...
however they did harp on about it for like 3 years, so it's a bit of a pain as it was one of their main election "promises"....
You may say, well Labour should've given tax cuts earlier. Well if they had we'd be in even bigger shite now and even more in dept.

Think not putting into super and decreasing funding for R & D, will come back to bite us in the arse, but only time will tell.

Insulation subsidy is good seeing as NZ houses are fucking cold.

Would've liked to see something to help stimulate job growth.

6/6. Agreed on all fronts.



Seen the papers lately? You might want to have a look, there’s some things going on with the economy you may be interested in ...

Was easy to forecast and I don't believe they did not know this was coming. Or they're fuckwits. Pick one.


Key sold the tax cuts as a means of stimulating the economy now he has changed his mind to soften up the public for further asset sales on the grounds that private industry can make a better go than government.

Indeed, ideology, not pragmatism, is sadly what drives NZ politics.


The Labour ( Failure ) party were very ''economical with the truth'' re how actually bare the cupboard was....

Irrelevant, see above.


I didnt vote for National because of the tax cut policy, Ive always voted for them because they have a better balanced philosophy and they dont attract morons like Ruth Dyson and Trevor Mallard into their fold.

C'mon, Trev's a quality bloke.


So instead we should have voted for the other lot who left the Government's accounts in tatters, deliberately misleading the New Zealand electorate about the ACC deficit or the true cost of the Kiwi Rail purchase, amongst other things?...
A stable Standard & Poor's AA+ rating is a magnificent outcome, all things considered.

Not the only option, stop thinking FPP. And I see you've fallen for the S&P bogeyman story.


I agree Sir Roger should be in the chair. I'll help you plug it in and throw the switch if you like.

Pure comedy gold! Bling on the way..


But they do! This is why democracy is doomed for failure. Everyone's vote is just as valid and valuable as the next person's. Once the ignorant outnumber the informed, Labour will be back in power :laugh: Actually, I think this has already happened but luckily a lot of the ignorant are too apathetic to get to a polling booth :done:

You have a better system in mind?



The worlds economy is falling apart at the seams, governments are desperately trying to stimulate economies yet bolster the necessary spending (and extra spending they are having to make) and yet, we are still entitled to a tax break?...

Nope, but that was my point pre-election - and tax cuts are meant to be a stimulus, right? The Gospel of Libertarianism says that money spent by you is always better than money spent by government, right? Governments are so inefficient they even overcome the advantages of scale they get, an we should drown them in bathtubs. Right? :laugh:

I'm just crowing over being right.


FACT - No government is looking out for your specific well being, you need to do that yourself. So get onto it.

True. But perhaps not how you may mean it.

[rainman]

It is fair to say that neo-classicism has it's faults - eg. the dot.com bubble, and the current recession caused by unregulated capital flows.

I LOL'ed. You're good...

[MSTRS]

But again it's not as simple as that.

It was simple, in essence. Subsidies and tariffs allowed locally produced and forced imported goods to be overpriced. And exporters may have been getting rich, but it wasn't from the price that 'our' goods recd overseas...'we' all paid extra so that Mrs Mop in Liverpool could have a cheap Sunday roast of NZ lamb.
It was also around this time that Britain was becoming more involved with the EEC (as it was then) and backing away from the previously cosy deal (for them and our farmers) with NZ for our produce, so our traditional market was disappearing.
All the problems that this caused could be laid at Muldoon's door - the money he paid out in subsidies was not balanced out by the tariffs on imported goods, so had to be borrowed, along with that required for the so-called ThinkBig projects of the 70's.
The sale of SOEs was intended to repay that massive debt, and the change to a market economy was intended to stop the reason for that debt from recurring.
Rogernomics, as it got called, was a painful chapter, but had to happen.

[Oscar]

...how much a personal guarantee from John Key is worth.

Bet all you geniuses who voted for "the tax cut party" are feeling really smart now, huh? :doh:


:done:

Er - both parties offered tax cuts.
And it would be pretty stupid to continue with a promise that has been overtaken by world events. Or do you think electing a Labour Govt. in NZ would have stopped a worldwide recession?

[Pixie]

...how much a personal guarantee from John Key is worth.

Bet all you geniuses who voted for "the tax cut party" are feeling really smart now, huh? :doh:


:done:

Many tossers who said giving tax cuts would ruin the country and is a really bad idea,are now saying John Key has broken his promises even though giving tax cuts would really be a bad idea.

This is known as hypocrisy and the tossers are generally pinkos

[Robert Taylor]

So what has your implied statism got to do with Key reneging on his tax policy??



Skyryder

I get it, you dont.

[Squiggles]

I'd still vote for them.

[rainman]

Many tossers who said giving tax cuts would ruin the country and is a really bad idea,are now saying John Key has broken his promises even though giving tax cuts would really be a bad idea.

This is known as hypocrisy and the tossers are generally pinkos

Disagree. This is known in my book as pointing out that someone else has no integrity. My views on tax don't really enter into the transaction.

And I'm happy to be called a pinko. Better than being a useful idiot.

[Winston001]

I LOL'ed. You're good...

I aim to please. :D


It was simple, in essence. Subsidies and tariffs allowed locally produced and forced imported goods to be overpriced. And exporters may have been getting rich, but it wasn't from the price that 'our' goods recd overseas...'we' all paid extra so that Mrs Mop in Liverpool could have a cheap Sunday roast of NZ lamb.
It was also around this time that Britain was becoming more involved with the EEC (as it was then) and backing away from the previously cosy deal (for them and our farmers) with NZ for our produce, so our traditional market was disappearing.
All the problems that this caused could be laid at Muldoon's door - the money he paid out in subsidies was not balanced out by the tariffs on imported goods, so had to be borrowed, along with that required for the so-called ThinkBig projects of the 70's.
The sale of SOEs was intended to repay that massive debt, and the change to a market economy was intended to stop the reason for that debt from recurring.
Rogernomics, as it got called, was a painful chapter, but had to happen.

Muldoon is unfairly demonised these days. I didn't like the man but accept the principle which NZ operated under back then.

In 1972 the UK committed to the Common Market (EU) and stopped its preferential buying of meat from NZ. That was a huge blow to our economy.

Then in 1973 OPEC flexed its muscles for the first time and doubled the price of oil. Our economy tanked.

People still remembered the 1950 wool boom and hoped it (or something similar) could happen again. So the government (both Labour then National) used tariffs and subsidies to tide us over until the good times arrived.

Think Big - these misunderstood projects were aimed at making NZ independent of international industries. We could make our own steel, methanol etc. Electrification of the NI main trunk. A third potline at Tiwai.

The conventional view is Think Big was a failure - yet most of the plants and infrastructure built continue in production today. Unfortunately they aren't now owned by the govt.

[MSTRS]

The interdependent nature of it all...
Timing is everything. That, and brinksmanship. A good hand is not always a winner.

[PuppetMaster]

Disagree. This is known in my book as pointing out that someone else has no integrity. My views on tax don't really enter into the transaction.


You've had too many blows to the head.

[Hitcher]

Sir Rogers whole reason for being was the removal of privilege, which the bleaters want reinstated.

Hmmm, removal of inefficiencies and waste more likely.

In hindsight the sequencing of events could have been a bit cleverer, as could the way state assets were split up. Separating Telecom's network from its retail business would have helped, ditto for rail and electricity assets.

[Skyryder]

...and how many holes did Labour hide in the prefu? FFS, the treasury predictions were for a $3bn surplus, we now have a $8bn deficit! A downgrade of our credit rating would have cost a conservative estimate of $600m for absolutely nothing.




Because it's political pragmatism - it's easier to take away something that was promised but not yet given than something the electorate already have. What part of that don't you understand, or are you also having trouble re-adjusting to a government that makes sensible pragmatic decisions rather than being a bunch of ideologically driven idiots?



1) Just because the elecorate latched onto the promise because they were desperate after years of being robbed by Cullen does not make it "the main policy". You and Phil-in may passionately believe that tax cuts were the only reason that Liarbore lost, but you're kidding yourselves.

2) Liarbore had no election policy other than "throw shit at John Key" so STFU.


Nothing you have said come close as to why tax cuts won't work now that NZs in a recession when Key said that they would stimulate the economy when we were heading into one during the election. Key is also on record stating at the Job summit that the NZ economy is in pretty good shape. (my words)

Your STFU remark clearly indicates your inability to come up with a viable answer.

Have a happy day.


Skyryder

[Winston001]

NZ was already in recession when National was elected. However - many people including the governor of the Reserve Bank believed the worst was over because we didn't have sub-prime mortgages and similar investments. So things looked dull but not too bad.

6 months later commodity prices are still going down and wealthy western nations - whom we sell to - are reintroducing trade barriers. Things now look seriously bleak. It would be irresponsible of any government to continue spending while reducing tax income. I don't like it but accept it.

[MisterD]

Your STFU remark clearly indicates your inability to come up with a viable answer.

For the benefit of other leftards, I shall make the implicit explicit:

You're bleating about one of many policies National campaigned on being deferred because Cullen left us deeper in the shit that we imagined we were...whereas your side had an election campaign based around mud slinging and lies with no actual policy at all.

Hence the STFU.

[Naki Rat]

This article (http://www.garethmorgan.com/pages/content.aspx?PID=29) by Gareth Morgan gives a overview of the current economic situation in his usual no-punches-pulled style. It makes sense of where the budget fits into the bigger picture.

Very insightful but bleak reading :shit:

[steve_t]

I don't know where this is gonna get us really. The country voted at the last elections and not everyone voted for National. Given the populations divergence on political preference, I don't expect we're gonna get consensus here.
I do think it's too easy and myopic to oversimplify and say that John Key has no integrity because he's not keeping tax cuts. The reasons why have been spread over the last 5 pages
:done:

[MisterD]

If anyone's looking for a more amusing take on it, Jane Clifton (http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/opinion/2456003/The-Nagging-Mother-in-Law-of-All-Budgets)'s on form in the Dom Post.

I particularly liked this bit:



Fittingly for a Budget that was mostly Scrooge, it was balefully witnessed by the Ghost of Budgets Past, Sir Roger Douglas, and the Ghost of Budgets Future (he hopes), Labour's David Cunliffe.

Sir Roger, grey as a wraith, rose up and croaked out a Dickensian speech of warning about debt and fiscal cowardice, lacking only the clanking chains.

Mr Cunliffe, hopelessly overstimulated, made bellicose interjections - most of them miles off the immediate topic - all the way through the National speeches, rather like a drunk heckling a council meeting.

"The biggest lie in history!" he bellowed, then added, mystifyingly, "Leave it to our kids! Taking if off our kids!" before reverting to the handily all-purpose, "Shame!"

[Skyryder]

Because it wasn't clear until later that the previous government had almost bankrupted the country - at that point it became blatantly obvious that measures such as the full round of tax cuts were no longer affordable.

Affordibility was never the issue with the Nats. Key was going to borrow for the tax cuts come hell or high water. He claimed that the stimulus of the tax cuts to the economy would offset any negitive aspects of having to borrow money for them.

I suspect that the real reason English canned the cuts was on advice from Standard and Poors. The Nats sold the NZ public a 'pup' on tax cuts. And I might add it is too Labours shame that they too came to the party with their own 'dog.'

Skyryder

[Jantar]

Affordibility was never the issue with the Nats. Key was going to borrow for the tax cuts come hell or high water. ...
Wrong. National always promoted the proposed tax cuts on the basis of the economy as presented by Cullen et al, and reiterated time and time again, that no tax cuts would be funded through borrowing. It was Comrades Clark and Cullen who kept on claiming tha National would borrow to fund tax cuts.

[ynot slow]

Can't win really,my take is we continue borrowing and our higher interest rates attract offshore investing,hence the exchange rate goes up,no good for exporters and we are an exporting country.

We manage to get interest rates at good level,the overseas banks upgrade our credit rating,that appeals to financial institutions and our exchange rate goes up as a result.

[Skyryder]

Wrong. National always promoted the proposed tax cuts on the basis of the economy as presented by Cullen et al, and reiterated time and time again, that no tax cuts would be funded through borrowing. It was Comrades Clark and Cullen who kept on claiming tha National would borrow to fund tax cuts.


Hon JOHN KEY: I can assure the member that we are not borrowing $40 billion for tax cuts. What we are doing is borrow $40 billion over the next 3 years, over and above—



Despite his role at the time as National's associate transport spokesman, he did not disclose his shareholding.
When Mr Key was questioned on the issue this year he said his family trust had held 30,000 shares in the company, but had sold them on June 9 and June 12, 2003.
But Finance Minister Michael Cullen today released correspondence and share register information contradicting several of Mr Key's claims.
The information showed Mr Key, through his trust and under his own name, had owned 100,000 rather than 30,000 Tranz Rail shares.
Questioned on the issue before he was aware the information had been released, Mr Key said his shareholding ranged between 25,000 and 50,000 shares up until June 2003.
But when pressed on the issue he admitted there were more shares.
"Actually maybe 100,000 from memory, sometimes 50,000, sometimes 100,000, yep," he said.
"Yeah, sorry, there was 100,000 in total."

So you realy think Key was not going to borrow for his tax cuts. His word means nothing.

Further proof

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYKDbKbqR60







Skyryder

[ManDownUnder]

I got an ACC levy increase the bloody National Party has been waiting to drop on me for 9 years!!!!!!!

And then they have the nerve to orchestrate a global recession to get out of giving me my tax cuts... Jeez...

[ManDownUnder]

Hon JOHN KEY: I can assure the member that we are not borrowing $40 billion for tax cuts.
... and in not paying the tax cuts out... it seems he was true to his word...!


So you realy think Key was not going to borrow for his tax cuts. His word means nothing.

Skyryder

LOL - dude he's just done exactly that! What would Standard and Poor's reaction have been if tax cuts had been given?

And why do you think the tax cuts got pulled... there's the minor ACC "whoops... fuck - where'd that billion go" issue... oh and that global recession. Combine the two a lo - we have a great reason to say y'know... they might not be a good idea now - knowing what we know... which wasn't really disclosed by the previous grumblement.

[monkeymcbean]

Hmmm, removal of inefficiencies and waste more likely.

In hindsight the sequencing of events could have been a bit cleverer, as could the way state assets were split up. Separating Telecom's network from its retail business would have helped, ditto for rail and electricity assets.

Yes it could of been a bit cleverer good ole hindsight, but the country would be in more fininancial difficulties if it was not for the sale of some assets, and they were loss making liabitlities. Though Air New Zealand and Tranzrail are back in public hands at a huge ongoing cost....i think that was something to do with the Greens.

[steve_t]

I got an ACC levy increase the bloody National Party has been waiting to drop on me for 9 years!!!!!!!

And then they have the nerve to orchestrate a global recession to get out of giving me my tax cuts... Jeez...

Haha... National has the rest of the world in its pockets :Punk: I think it's a global organisation called the Stonecutters and Obama is one of them! What other conspiracy theories can we drag out.
The ACC levy increase was due to Labour's $1.5 deficit in the non-earner account. A number it hid at election time. Why are non-earners claiming so much ACC??!! Is it all those people claiming ACC for a back injury while they're taking cash under the table for building houses and retaining walls? :2guns:

[ManDownUnder]

The ACC levy increase was due to Labour's $1.5 deficit in the non-earner account. A number it hid at election time.

yeah but whats' $1,500,000,000 between friends... It'd beasy for Cullen to lose that kind of chump change wouldn't it?

... the bastard should be in prison.

[325rocket]

Nothing you have said come close as to why tax cuts won't work now that NZs in a recession when Key said that they would stimulate the economy when we were heading into one during the election.


Have a happy day.


Skyryder

so you agree Key was on to it suggesting tax cuts would work to stimulate the economy ?



325rocket :whistle:

[Marmoot]

This whole debate/issue on the 2009 Budget has become a moot point well before it started.

Those who believes recession, economy, and National would support the Budget and applaud Bill English.

Those who vote for Labour would shun it, irrelevant to the logic behind the Budget; either at the abolished tax cuts, or at the borrowing for tax cut should it went ahead.

[spudchucka]

...how much a personal guarantee from John Key is worth.

Bet all you geniuses who voted for "the tax cut party" are feeling really smart now, huh? :doh:


:done:

Its just the natural cycle of NZ politics, Labour fuck things up and then National get in and have to clean up their mess and in doing so have to make heaps of cut backs to spending which pisses everyone off so they swing back to Labour who fuck it up all over again.

[rainman]

Its just the natural cycle of NZ politics, National fuck things up and then Labour get in and have to clean up their mess and in doing so have to reinstate heaps of spending that National cut back which pisses everyone off so they swing back to National who fuck it up all over again.

There, fixed that for you.

Sorry, that's me just having fun - as mentioned I'm not a diehard Labour supporter although clearly I'd prefer a left-leaning coalition with a strong Green influence. Maybe we should try that sometime?

[Mully]

My understanding is that in a lot of countries running MMP, the Greens feature in pretty much all governments.

It's just a pity that our Green come across as a bunch of loonies, cos I do support some of their goals.

I notice Jeanette Fitzsimmons (SP?) isn't the co-leader anymore. I like Bradford being described as the "Underdog" to take her place.

[Ocean1]

'we' all paid extra so that Mrs Mop in Liverpool could have a cheap Sunday roast of NZ lamb.

The fuck she could. In the late 70's NZ lamb landed in the UK at half the price of the local product, but it sold across the counter for almost 4 times that much.

[MisterD]

Sorry, that's me just having fun - as mentioned I'm not a diehard Labour supporter although clearly I'd prefer a left-leaning coalition with a strong Green influence. Maybe we should try that sometime?

:shit: Aaaarrrggghhhhh....nooooooo....

[spudchucka]

There, fixed that for you.

Sorry, that's me just having fun - as mentioned I'm not a diehard Labour supporter although clearly I'd prefer a left-leaning coalition with a strong Green influence. Maybe we should try that sometime?

The greens are just a bunch of watermelons, they might be nice and green on the outside but they are scarlet red on the inside.

[rainman]

The greens are just a bunch of watermelons, they might be nice and green on the outside but they are scarlet red on the inside.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[pzkpfw]

What I'm enjoying is how, like some of the nutty rants I've seen on trademe, the lefties turn it all into a cult of personality thing.

It's John Key this and John Key that. Not the party, or the politics, or what the other party would have done that would be better (or what they did before to prevent the bad economy we have now).

Typical lefties, still reeling from 9 years of Aunty Helen.

North Korea and their glorious leader would be proud.

[Grumpy Gnomb]

Man I love reading this stuff everyone has an opinion and to be honest most of everyones stuff has some valid points in it. well done to everyone

[H00dz]

...how much a personal guarantee from John Key is worth.

Bet all you geniuses who voted for "the tax cut party" are feeling really smart now, huh? :doh:


:done:

I didnt Vote for National.......but I think that they have acted iresponsibily with their budget, under the circumstances I dont think they could have done much else.....Election promises swing voters sure, but they are never give ins

[Robert Taylor]

The greens are just a bunch of watermelons, they might be nice and green on the outside but they are scarlet red on the inside.

Yep, and they have trailer trash Bradford.

[Robert Taylor]

There, fixed that for you.

Sorry, that's me just having fun - as mentioned I'm not a diehard Labour supporter although clearly I'd prefer a left-leaning coalition with a strong Green influence. Maybe we should try that sometime?

There will be blood if that ever happens, and rightly so.

[Skyryder]

so you agree Key was on to it suggesting tax cuts would work to stimulate the economy ?

325rocket :whistle:


It's not about me or if I belive that tax cuts would work in not. Key at the election believed that they would and he and the Nats campaigned on this policy.

Now by canning the cuts they are in effect saying that tax cuts will not stimulate the economy.

And some here still they think they have 'not' been conned.:no:

[Skyryder]

The greens are just a bunch of watermelons, they might be nice and green on the outside but they are scarlet red on the inside.

So why did they go into coalition the the Nats?? The greens don't know what colour they are. Red or blue? It's all a bit of a mystery to them.


Skyryder

[puddytat]

What I'm enjoying is how, like some of the nutty rants I've seen on trademe, the lefties turn it all into a cult of personality thing.

It's John Key this and John Key that. Not the party, or the politics, or what the other party would have done that would be better (or what they did before to prevent the bad economy we have now).

Typical lefties, still reeling from 9 years of Aunty Helen.

North Korea and their glorious leader would be proud.

Man, we listened to the righties for the last 9 years say the same about Helen....
What I cant understand is people believe the bullshit from both the Nats & Labour & still vote for them time after time...To scared to make a change for a new direction. Ignorance is seemingly quite blissful.
Id much rather a coalition of Greens ,Maori,Bill & Ben,& legalize Pot party....:dodge:

[YellowDog]

Two Crocodiles were sitting at the side of the swamp near the lake. The smaller one turned to the bigger one and said, 'I can't understand how you can be so much bigger than me. We're the same age; we were the same size as kids. I just don't get it.'

'Well,' said the big Croc, 'what have you been eating?'

'Politicians, same as you,' replied the small Croc.

'Hmm. Well, where do you catch them?'

'Down the other side of the swamp near the parking lot by the Capitol.'

'Same here. Hmm. How do you catch them?'

'Well, I crawl up under one of their Lexus cars and wait for one to unlock the car door. Then I jump out, grab them by the leg, shake the shit out of them and eat 'em!'

'Ah!' says the big Crocodile, 'I think I see your problem. You're not getting any real nourishment. See, by the time you finish shaking the shit out of a Politician, there's nothing left but an asshole and a briefcase.

[spudchucka]

So why did they go into coalition the the Nats?? The greens don't know what colour they are. Red or blue? It's all a bit of a mystery to them.


Skyryder

Just shows that they are willing to suck up to anyone that will give them the time of day.

[MisterD]

So why did they go into coalition the the Nats?? The greens don't know what colour they are. Red or blue? It's all a bit of a mystery to them.


A memorandum of understanding is (thankfully) not a coalition.

[Swoop]

Thank goodness. A sensible approach to a budget.
If the Looney Labourite Sect had been honest with the books, and presented the facts, they would have been kicked out anyway. Only the truly blind would still be in love with them.


yeah but whats' $1,500,000,000 between friends... It'd beasy for Cullen to lose that kind of chump change wouldn't it?

... the bastard should be in prison.
Thank goodness we no longer have inept fools like him in charge!
He really should be put against a wall for what he did to the country.

Its just the natural cycle of NZ politics, Labour fuck things up and then National get in and have to clean up their mess and in doing so have to make heaps of cut backs to spending which pisses everyone off so they swing back to Labour who fuck it up all over again.
Possibly the best post ever on KB.
Well said!

[Robert Taylor]

Well if nothing else after 9 dark years of enduring that ugly bucktoothed bitch its great to see the left squirming, and they dont like it.

[Mully]

Well if nothing else after 9 dark years of enduring that ugly bucktoothed bitch its great to see the left squirming, and they dont like it.

One thing that's uncanny is how much Phil-In sounds like Helen. Same sentence structure (stopping in the middle of sentences), and even the same tone.

Scary.

[Owl]

I voted National, but it had nothing to do with the promise of tax cuts. I can live without another for the betterment of the country!:msn-wink:

[want-a-harley]

Next time Bill English is on the telly, look away, he sounds exactly like Helen Clark.

[James Deuce]

The tax cuts were a waste of time anyway. You ended up with just enough to buy a basic Lotto ticket at the end of the process. If they want to see an increase in revenue and GDP, then drop income tax to 20% and raise GST to 15%.

Drop company tax to 20% for locally run businesses. Make it 15% if you employ people. Make it 30% for those with majority ownership by overseas shareholders. Require demonstrable reinvestment in local infrastructure.

Then you'll see some economic churn.

[Ocean1]

If they want to see an increase in revenue and GDP, then drop income tax to 20% and raise GST to 15%.

Drop company tax to 20% for locally run businesses. Make it 15% if you employ people. Make it 30% for those with majority ownership by overseas shareholders.

Yeah, I wish.

You’re going to lose some foreign investment, better start offering tax breaks for qualifying on-shore investment schemes and taxing the bejesus out of consumer goods imports. You could start by assigning, say 60% of the super fund to locally owned banks with incentives to loans for R&D investment. With a bit of luck and a couple of decades we might start to see NZ inc actually owning some of our business assets again.

I like GST exemptions for local product too, but if the above ain’t already provocation enough that’s just begging our trading partners to start slamming doors to their markets. But then, they’re onto that already…

[MSTRS]

The fuck she could. In the late 70's NZ lamb landed in the UK at half the price of the local product, but it sold across the counter for almost 4 times that much.I can't speak for profiteering at the market end, but 'landed at half the price' says it all. 'We' made that possible, and boy, did we pay for that.


...I'd prefer a left-leaning coalition with a strong Green influence. Maybe we should try that sometime?

They can lean whatever way they like...after being tied to a post and shot. Leave them there awhile and they'll go green as well.

[Robert Taylor]

Next time Bill English is on the telly, look away, he sounds exactly like Helen Clark.

Well when you compare two blokes, Bill is a heck of a lot closer to being an oil painting, plus he has obviously visited a dentist.

[James Deuce]

I like GST exemptions for local product too, but if the above ain’t already provocation enough that’s just begging our trading partners to start slamming doors to their markets. But then, they’re onto that already…

Give them tax breaks for the equivalent value of infrastructure reinvestment.

Fact is, the US, Europe, Rusia and China can slam any door in our face they want, whenever they want. The US is rather more guilty of that behaviour than any of the other culprits though.

[Ocean1]

I can't speak for profiteering at the market end, but 'landed at half the price' says it all.

IIRC 'er majesty's customs & excise were responsible for most of that, enough to put wholesale prices a touch more than local product. That's the purpose of protectionist policy, after all. The rest was indeed local market forces, NZ lamb was simply seen to be worth more, far be it from Sainsbury Ltd to argue.


'We' made that possible, and boy, did we pay for that.

What made that possible was, firstly grazing densities an order of magnitude better than anything in Europe, and secondly the invention of the Bell refrigeration machine.


Give them tax breaks for the equivalent value of infrastructure reinvestment.

Yeah. Need to be very specific, there, or all of a sudden every commercial interest in the country is coding almost all of their expenditure to “infrastructure". You get the same thing in Aus with the R&D tax breaks for mining, everything is related to mining research.


Fact is, the US, Europe, Rusia and China can slam any door in our face they want, whenever they want. The US is rather more guilty of that behaviour than any of the other culprits though.

That they are. And fucking with market indicators and regulatory mechanisms to shove exchange rates in their favour. I wonder if a new world market standard will slow that down any…