20yo, single mum.

[Winter]

She needs help...

Shes living at home with Mum, and brother and sister. Brother and sister are 16-17 and wind her up a bit, OK, a lot.

Shes just loosing it a bit, I don't know how to help her anymore. Shes depressed, feeling pretty isolated and helpless.

She needs to get away from her family a bit, IE move out so she doesnt have to deal with their shit constantly. Problem is where in Auckland can a single mother afford to live on the dpb?

Shes talking about moving waaaay south to invers or somewhere just to afford the rent and get out...

the Fathers a bit of a no-hoper and Is no help to her.. (personally I think he needs some sense kicked into him, and someone to say 'take some responsibility or next time it'll hurt twice as much)

I think I've done as much as I can for her, but I can't figure out whats next...

[Hitcher]

If this is a serious thread, good luck with it.

[Winter]

Yes this is a serious thread.

Hopefully the 12 year old KB'ers will be in bed.

Yes, she knows that shes made some pretty poor choices, but shes also make a couple of good moves. Please dont turn this into a trash tread.

[Laxi]

If this is a serious thread, good luck with it.

I can hear the scum floating to the tops of their ponds now!

good luck winter hope you find some answers

[kasper]

sent you a PM

--kasper

[gatch]

Yeah sounds like she could do with a change alright, families are meant to help when the chips are down..

Invercargill is not too bad a place, I know some nice people there, fuckin cold though, I hope she gets a break yeah..

[Conquiztador]

If she is on DPB and has a child to take care off and (I assume) no money, then moving to Invercargill might not be the best option. The travel down will cost money, she will need a home (currently living at mum's place), furniture, power, phone, food and list goes on.

Try to find a state house for her. Or a live in situation where she can live with her child in exchange for house work.

Does she have any education? If not but she is keen to not stagnate then there are courses specially for young single mums that will help her with childcare, making decisions and get ahead.

Take her to Citizens advice where she can get help with budgeting and ideas what to do re her situation.

She would have a socialworker at WINZ. If she is lucky it is a good one, if not then she needs to learn what there is on offer:
- Food grants (normally $150 each time but only up to $1,5K/year)
- Emergency dental care subsidies
- Clothing allowances
- Interest free loan up to $1.5K for repairs of car, getting furniture etc.
- Allowances to help with job finding
And more.

But it comes down to one thing: It will only work if she wants to help her self.

[Sidewinder]

i could find heaps of good cheap places in hams! got a few mates with babys that have usless dads

[trump-lady]

Any domestic violence anywhere? (incldes parents, siblings etc) If she goes into refuge with the child they will do a wrap around service including priority at WINZ and HNZ. If shes central Auckland, let me know.

[sil3nt]

My old neighbour was a single mother who managed to afford a place on her own with phone and internet while not working. The father was a right asshole who i almost got into a fight with before he fucked off over to aussie i doubt he paid her anything.

So really i see no reason why she would not be able to afford a place on her own. A phone is a luxury and something i did without for a year simply because i cannot justify wasting $50 a month on something i never use and internet is again a luxury. How much do you get a week from WINZ? Something like $250 isn't it?

[Genestho]

If she already feels isolated living with her family (and friends?) in Auckland, Invercargil (sp?) will be not a good move for her at all.
Goodluck, looks like you've got some good advice to start her off with.

[98tls]

If she already feels isolated living with her family (and friends?) in Auckland, Invercargil (sp?) will be not a good move for her at all.
Goodluck, looks like you've got some good advice to start her off with. Agreed,fwiw i wonder if theres a social group or similar of single mums that she could get in touch with and possibly hook up with a mum who has room and is struggling a bit $ wise and would be keen to take in someone in similar circumstances.A real hard one and i wish you both good luck in getting it resolved.

[Choco]

WINZ is the place to go, If you have a serious problem they'll help you out.

[Motu]

We go round and round with this stuff with one of our daughters who is a solo Mum,although she is 24 now.We got her down here at home to have the baby,built a sleep out for her and all.She moved back to Auckland,shifted a couple of times,and this weekend we shift her down here again.But this time she is in her own (rental) house just a few doors up in the same street.This will save on phone bills at least.

Your daughter can get a rent top up from WINZ - but she will get more top up in Auckland than another centre as housing costs are more in Auckland.So it was harder to find an affordable house down here for her than Aucks as the allowance drops more than the rent does.Fortunately because of her race,and the fact we live not far away,she got a good deal on the rental,and could choose her own colours when they repainted.

Support,lots and lots of it....an ear to bend and a shoulder to cry on.Someone to dump washing on,borrow furniture from,have meals with,babysit.I don't know your relationship,but they just need to know someone is there for them.This is much easier if you are a parent....in fact it's compulsory.

[A-Coward]

Why does she have the kid. Im sure there are lots of nice people driving rav4's that would love to have it. Then she could sort herself out. If she really wants it then sure.. But if not, there are other options.


[waits for attack by short sighted people]

[mynameis]

Not a pisstake

[98tls]

Not a pisstake About as useful as a 3rd ball on a Greyhound,what do you want her to do with one of them?put it over the baby she already has head.

[Conquiztador]

Not a pisstake

Ah I see where you are going with this. But your teacher got a fraction muddled up. Yes, this IS a rubber. But not the type that can erase mistakes sorry.

[mynameis]

About as useful as a 3rd ball on a Greyhound,what do you want her to do with one of them?put it over the baby she already has head.


Ah I see where you are going with this. But your teacher got a fraction muddled up. Yes, this IS a rubber. But not the type that can erase mistakes sorry.

It's serioiusly not a pisstake.

[Brian d marge]

.This is much easier if you are a parent....in fact it's compulsory.

bugger

the little shit, will be borrowing stuff, What age can they start working ( I have a four year old , he can carry a good few pounds in coal , surely thats got to be worth a few pennies )

I know Ill piss all money against the wall that will stop the bugger.

Stephen

as to the other lady , HTFU , if life wants to be sorted , do it yourself , cause no one else will ( Honestly )

sorry but true .......

[CookMySock]

as to the other lady , HTFU , if life wants to be sorted , do it yourself , cause no one else will ( Honestly ) sorry but true .......Ah yeah I kinda have to agree here. If you really DO want to help her, you (and her) will be better served if you let her hit rock bottom and grit her teeth and choose a new direction. Sometimes the more you rescue people, the more they need to be rescued, and folks that act this out will never get anywhere.

I like the course idea. Seriously, she needs professional assistance, and doing her favours does her no favours.

Sorry, but life IS a bitch for victims, until they decide that they're not victims anymore. :no:

Steve

[crazyhorse]

Why not look to see if anyone is wanting a live in housekeeper - often they don't mind mothers with a child and sometimes it can be cheaper board too.

I am sure WINZ could offer some sort of help too - there are always shelters of some sorts available, maybe contact the one for battered women, and they may be able to offer some sort of advice or help
Good luck

[driftn]

I do not live with my ex partner and she has custody of our child, she is on the doll and pulls in more money in the hand than I do. WINZ will help!.
They set my ex up, pay bond for new house, bought her a car so she can run around and lots of other things, Personally I think WINZ gives to much as im sure there are woman out there that just go out and get up the duff so that they can get more $$$$.

I tend to agree with DB on this one let her hit the bottom and if she wants help let her find it her self. Its the only way really. Thats the thing about life, It's real, not a game of monopoly.

Thats my rant over.

[Pixie]

I do not live with my ex partner and she has custody of our child, she is on the doll .

What?
One of those inflatable ones?
At least it won't get her pregnant again.

[ManDownUnder]

A couple of things (for her) to do...

1) Stay close to any family or whanau support. Moving to Invers might be cheap but if it mean she no longer has access to free babysitting, and that little bit of freedom to further improve her lot then it's going to be very hard

2) Get her chin up - have her dream a little about where she wants to be in 5 years. Baby will be at school by then, she'll be able to do stuff during the day - working probably.

What does she want to do - start looking at slowly retraining for that now (I know - it's a hard lot right now... and more work appeals about as much as a poke in the eye... so start with the dreams!)

3) Do what you can personally - babysit one night a fortnight maybe. Give her that break so she can plan a social life and stay alive in herself...

4) Get out of any situation where she's locked in with useless shites. A solo mum is one hell of a big job... without additional family crap going on right in her face the whole time

Look for someone in a similar situation, share a house with another Solo Mum. That will reduce housing costs, get her out of the current situation, both adults will have a babysitter handy, and the kids will learn those social skills they need in their formative years. Later on things like the run to kindy etc can be shared too...

5) Have someone go to WINZ (or whatever it's called now) and sit with her to find out ALL her entitlements, what she can get and how to sign up for them. I don't know the list of grants off hand but I suggest a phonecall to start with - get that list handy, then rock on in, confirm EVERYTHING she's entitled to and start from there.

6) Ignore the dickheads in here.

This ain't a no hope situation... but it is hard work. Deal with what's on the plate now (family, baby, benefit entitlements), make sure she keeps a social life of her own, but look to the future too. It's going to make a huge difference if she starts planning now... and working towards something.

Check this out http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10543515

It's NOT the end of her life. But it is a time for hard work (and she knows it ... ). Get her some inspiration and some dreams... and work slowly toward them.

[ManDownUnder]

Not a pisstake

Then it's fucken stupid post.

[mynameis]

Then it's fucken stupid post.

What are the chances of her breeding again yet still being in that situation? Highly likely, our tax payer money has to go somewhere.

[Winston001]

A couple of things (for her) to do...

1) Stay close to any family or whanau support. Moving to Invers might be cheap but if it mean she no longer has access to free babysitting, and that little bit of freedom to further improve her lot then it's going to be very hard

2) Get her chin up - have her dream a little about where she wants to be in 5 years. Baby will be at school by then, she'll be able to do stuff during the day - working probably.

What does she want to do - start looking at slowly retraining for that now (I know - it's a hard lot right now... and more work appeals about as much as a poke in the eye... so start with the dreams!)

3) Do what you can personally - babysit one night a fortnight maybe. Give her that break so she can plan a social life and stay alive in herself...

4) Get out of any situation where she's locked in with useless shites. A solo mum is one hell of a big job... without additional family crap going on right in her face the whole time

Look for someone in a similar situation, share a house with another Solo Mum. That will reduce housing costs, get her out of the current situation, both adults will have a babysitter handy, and the kids will learn those social skills they need in their formative years. Later on things like the run to kindy etc can be shared too...

5) Have someone go to WINZ (or whatever it's called now) and sit with her to find out ALL her entitlements, what she can get and how to sign up for them. I don't know the list of grants off hand but I suggest a phonecall to start with - get that list handy, then rock on in, confirm EVERYTHING she's entitled to and start from there.

6) Ignore the dickheads in here.

This ain't a no hope situation... but it is hard work. Deal with what's on the plate now (family, baby, benefit entitlements), make sure she keeps a social life of her own, but look to the future too. It's going to make a huge difference if she starts planning now... and working towards something.

Check this out http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10543515

It's NOT the end of her life. But it is a time for hard work (and she knows it ... ). Get her some inspiration and some dreams... and work slowly toward them.

Lots of great advice there Ned. :Punk:

Having the support of wider family/friends is very important so moving away is an extreme remedy. Moving out however sounds essential unless the household suddenly develops some maturity and compassion.

Being a young mother is a helleva job. Doing it by yourself even harder. My respect for solo parents went up ten-fold once we had our first child.

[Motu]

Yes,that's exactly what my daughter did - she took 4 years to do a 3 year course,with lots of support from her tutors,and they had her teaching new entrants.She sat her final exam last weekend,and this weekend she is coming home to the Whanau,with a plan and goal...and good skills to back it up.

[Genestho]

Something else I thought of...

Plunket Coffee groups. The age is new born usually till daycare) Bound to be a few up there. If the age is older, grab a Treasures mag to find a group, or join Treasures.co.nz.

Coffee Groups might sound a bit Fuddy Duddy to a 20 year Old, but I joined one with my first born, was on my local Plunket committee for a year..out of sheer boredom, but..

I made lasting friends, and it was good to share a whinge about crappy nappies, sleep deprivation, teething etc, ...and find it was all completely normal...(we still swap "are my kids normal" stories) you also found some were in a better position, or worse than others.

If she has a newborn (sorry I did not note the age) - You may even find she has postnatal depression, which is more common than not.

And probably a culture shock for a twenty year old, when all your buddies are partying on, and you are NOT.

She is really quite lucky she lives at home, some young parents are doin it hard, on their own bills wise AND support wise. I know many Ladies who have gone through it!

[Dave Lobster]

WINZ is the place to go, If you have a serious problem they'll help you out.

Only if you're brown, surely?

[peasea]

Ah I see where you are going with this. But your teacher got a fraction muddled up. Yes, this IS a rubber. But not the type that can erase mistakes sorry.

I think perhaps an 'eraser' could be more helpful. It's just figuring out where to use it that's the hard part. The father perhaps?

[FROSTY]

I can see your hearts in the right place so please don't take this as an insult.
Does this lady actually WANT to help herself??
Before going to a heck of a lot of effort you really need to establish this fact.
Some people say stuff not because they want the situation "fixed" but just to vent.
Yea the younger family is a pain -but maybee thats a right now situation not actually all the time.

[jrandom]

I can see your hearts in the right place so please don't take this as an insult.
Does this lady actually WANT to help herself??

Good point, Frosty.

All I see here (correct me if I'm missing something important) is some loser chick and some poor cunt-struck dude chasing around after her.

Drop her like a hot potato and go find yourself a decent woman, Winter. Problem solved. There are decent women out there. You don't have to settle for this shit; her problems aren't yours.

[Motu]

Does anyone ever not want to help themselves out of a bad situation? Does anyone ever not want to help someone else out of a bad situation?

Sorry for not being a tough guy...I'm only human,or try to be....

[CookMySock]

Does anyone ever not want to help themselves out of a bad situation? It's human nature to act out what we believe - we all do it. In the process of this, we end up with the things we project. It's a circular loop that's hard to break out of, unless we discover that its simply never going to work, so then we change, but not until.


Does anyone ever not want to help someone else out of a bad situation?Yeah well its tough watching people go down the toilet, but if thats where they think they are headed there's probably little anyone can do about it. It's worse when they take you with them and tell you it's all your fault, and theres not much you can do about that either, except choose another partner elsewhere who is just going to do the same thing again.

I don't want to help people any more. Because I can't. If they want to go to hell in a handcart, then its not my heart attack. Different story for those so-enlightened who can discuss and make progress, even if some of the progress is mine.

Steve

[XxKiTtiExX]

Other than the people who have posted rather nasty comments (people tend to forget that sometimes babies are planned yet the father runs away anyway and no I'm not "male bashing" its just a sad fact like the fact some mothers dump their babies on aeroplanes). I think there has been more than a few here who have actually bothered to post some decent information to try to help with the situation. She's obviously stuck in a rut, we all get there sometimes (so don't sit there and judge her) and sadly some take a little longer than others to clamber back out again. All you can do is continue to support her as best as you can. Remind her that yes it is a hard road ahead but there isn't just herself to think about anymore. Once she finds the right headspace she'll do just as greater job playing parent on her own as any couple could together.

[RantyDave]

A couple of things (for her) to do...
This is all absolutely spot on. Aparrently I have to spread rep around etc...

A friend for a couple of years was a woman in much the same situation ... thirty something with twin five year old boys. On the DPB, clearly, and with the whole useless ex thing but with some small (regular) under the table payments he'd withhold whenever they argued about something. Two things always struck me about her situation: one was how much money she actually had; and the other was how bad she was at managing it. Point is that the DPB is actually quite enough to pull yourself back together with if you cut out booze, smokes (both kinds), cellphones and sky TV (yes, seriously).

But she got her shit very much together. Before the boys went to school she took on "in home" nannying work for, well, some rich people's kid. Once that was all over she got serious about asking her mum to help out by getting the kids from school every day, then got a job. Went back to the industry she was in before having kids. So, yeah, go the Whanau route and don't be shy because they want to see you (one) get it back together.

Dave

[jrandom]

The lack of cynicism in this thread is both heartwarming and depressing.

I still think that the real issue here is the fact that Winter obviously lacks the self-confidence to find a less bottom-shelf girlfriend.

Perhaps hitting the gym for a few months would be the ticket?

[FROSTY]

Does anyone ever not want to help themselves out of a bad situation? Does anyone ever not want to help someone else out of a bad situation?
Mate sorry I think you miss the point I was making.The lady concerned might very well be wanting help but she may also simply have been venting

[Dave Lobster]

Does anyone ever not want to help themselves out of a bad situation?


Oh fuck yes. Heaps of them. That's why so many shit hole houses have sky TV, a car on finance, the $1000 phone that's cut off because they didn't pay the bill, etc.
I saw a few of them on the propaganda box the other night whining that John Key thinks it's a good idea to improve the state of the country, rather than give them a $12 a week tax reduction.

[alley cat]

Other than the people who have posted rather nasty comments (people tend to forget that sometimes babies are planned yet the father runs away anyway and no I'm not "male bashing" its just a sad fact like the fact some mothers dump their babies on aeroplanes). I think there has been more than a few here who have actually bothered to post some decent information to try to help with the situation. She's obviously stuck in a rut, we all get there sometimes (so don't sit there and judge her) and sadly some take a little longer than others to clamber back out again. All you can do is continue to support her as best as you can. Remind her that yes it is a hard road ahead but there isn't just herself to think about anymore. Once she finds the right headspace she'll do just as greater job playing parent on her own as any couple could together.

Bless you chook. A bit of support and encouragement gets most people back on track in the end.:niceone:

[scumdog]

I saw a few of them on the propaganda box the other night whining that John Key thinks it's a good idea to improve the state of the country, rather than give them a $12 a week tax reduction.

Cos it's all about me, me, ME!

[Winter]

Right, sorry Its taken me a few days to read all of these and reply.. Here goes.. :


If she is on DPB and has a child to take care off and (I assume) no money, then moving to Invercargill might not be the best option. The travel down will cost money, she will need a home (currently living at mum's place), furniture, power, phone, food and list goes on.

Try to find a state house for her. Or a live in situation where she can live with her child in exchange for house work.

Does she have any education? If not but she is keen to not stagnate then there are courses specially for young single mums that will help her with childcare, making decisions and get ahead.

Take her to Citizens advice where she can get help with budgeting and ideas what to do re her situation.

She would have a socialworker at WINZ. If she is lucky it is a good one, if not then she needs to learn what there is on offer:
- Food grants (normally $150 each time but only up to $1,5K/year)
- Emergency dental care subsidies
- Clothing allowances
- Interest free loan up to $1.5K for repairs of car, getting furniture etc.
- Allowances to help with job finding
And more.

But it comes down to one thing: It will only work if she wants to help her self.

Right, good points in here. Have talked her out of moving out of town. Family support (even extended family) are key here.
Shes doing a couple days a week at a course, should take her 5 years or so to get there. Hopefully she can increase her hours on this as bubs gets older.

I would defiantly be interested in hearing more about these courses for mums on decision making? That would be pretty useful for her.


Ah yeah I kinda have to agree here. If you really DO want to help her, you (and her) will be better served if you let her hit rock bottom and grit her teeth and choose a new direction. Sometimes the more you rescue people, the more they need to be rescued, and folks that act this out will never get anywhere.

I like the course idea. Seriously, she needs professional assistance, and doing her favours does her no favours.

Sorry, but life IS a bitch for victims, until they decide that they're not victims anymore. :no:

Steve

Yeah, you are not the first person to mention something like that to me. I do understand that if people keep picking you up, eventually you forget how to stand on your own. I'm not trying to do everything /anything for her.. I just want to be armed with information so I can assit her making better decisions.


A couple of things (for her) to do...

2) Get her chin up - have her dream a little about where she wants to be in 5 years. Baby will be at school by then, she'll be able to do stuff during the day - working probably.

What does she want to do - start looking at slowly retraining for that now (I know - it's a hard lot right now... and more work appeals about as much as a poke in the eye... so start with the dreams!)

3) Do what you can personally - babysit one night a fortnight maybe. Give her that break so she can plan a social life and stay alive in herself...

4) Get out of any situation where she's locked in with useless shites. A solo mum is one hell of a big job... without additional family crap going on right in her face the whole time

This ain't a no hope situation... but it is hard work. Deal with what's on the plate now (family, baby, benefit entitlements), make sure she keeps a social life of her own, but look to the future too. It's going to make a huge difference if she starts planning now... and working towards something.

It's NOT the end of her life. But it is a time for hard work (and she knows it ... ). Get her some inspiration and some dreams... and work slowly toward them.

Very helpful, thanks :-) I think thats really the best way I can help her... Chin up and looking at the big picture.

I went with her and got her stuff out of home, shes now staying with other family so at least for the time, the additional family crap has now been toned down to a manageable level.



Something else I thought of...

Plunket Coffee groups. The age is new born usually till daycare) Bound to be a few up there. If the age is older, grab a Treasures mag to find a group, or join Treasures.co.nz.

Coffee Groups might sound a bit Fuddy Duddy to a 20 year Old, but I joined one with my first born, was on my local Plunket committee for a year..out of sheer boredom, but..

I made lasting friends, and it was good to share a whinge about crappy nappies, sleep deprivation, teething etc, ...and find it was all completely normal...(we still swap "are my kids normal" stories) you also found some were in a better position, or worse than others.

If she has a newborn (sorry I did not note the age) - You may even find she has postnatal depression, which is more common than not.

And probably a culture shock for a twenty year old, when all your buddies are partying on, and you are NOT.

She is really quite lucky she lives at home, some young parents are doin it hard, on their own bills wise AND support wise. I know many Ladies who have gone through it!


More good info, one I hope she will take up.. Lonelyness is a bitch, I think coffee with likeminded mums will be a good thing :)


Good point, Frosty.

All I see here (correct me if I'm missing something important) is some loser chick and some poor cunt-struck dude chasing around after her.

Drop her like a hot potato and go find yourself a decent woman, Winter. Problem solved. There are decent women out there. You don't have to settle for this shit; her problems aren't yours.

The lack of cynicism in this thread is both heartwarming and depressing.

I still think that the real issue here is the fact that Winter obviously lacks the self-confidence to find a less bottom-shelf girlfriend.

Perhaps hitting the gym for a few months would be the ticket?

Haha, thanks Mr Random, I have a top-shelf missus I live with. She thinks that I'm such a nice person for looking out for this girl that she finds me that much more attractive, and we express that with some loud, violent, protected sex.

[skidMark]

I know a girl of same age in same situation, winz helped her out with a state house in glen innes...

87 pw plus bills... and thats a 3 bedroom house on its own section.... with garage, and she is also permitted borders to help cover some rent...

worth looking into i would imagine.

[fridayflash]

fuck...dime a dozen those types

[fridayflash]

theres partime jobs at hunters corner....niteshift of course

[ManDownUnder]

theres partime jobs at hunters corner....niteshift of course

Let's play a game - form a sentence from the following words...

Off Noddy Fuck

[Mom]

Off Noddy Fuck

Two Shoes Goody!

Sheesh! You could have given me better material to feed off mate :D

[ManDownUnder]

Two Shoes Goody!

Sheesh! You could have given me better material to feed off mate :D

Cake MDU Choklit?

[jrandom]

Haha, thanks Mr Random, I have a top-shelf missus I live with. She thinks that I'm such a nice person for looking out for this girl...

You should really have stipulated that in your first post. That makes it all OK. Given that your judgement in the matter is not as impaired as I feared, good onya for helping out, and best of luck.

[Argyle]

She dont need any benefits, she did choose to keep the child right? Then WTF, she will support it, not the tax payers! Just because some girl decides to get a child the tax payers should pay for it? No way!

There are several birth control drugs and abortion if you get pregnant, just stupid get a child if you dont have a job and cant support it!

Just let her face reality, get a job like the rest of us!

cheers

[Mom]

Cake MDU Choklit?

Delishimo!

[XxKiTtiExX]

She dont need any benefits, she did choose to keep the child right? Then WTF, she will support it, not the tax payers! Just because some girl decides to get a child the tax payers should pay for it? No way!

There are several birth control drugs and abortion if you get pregnant, just stupid get a child if you dont have a job and cant support it!

Just let her face reality, get a job like the rest of us!

cheers

Let me begin. Yes there are "several" birth control drugs, all of which CAN and DO fail even when used correctly. Nothing is 100% effective, and anyone who thinks it is, is thick. Simple.

Abortion. Now how about you go and have one and come back in 10 years time and tell me that you don't regret it. Having an abortion is an EXTREMELY difficult and potentially soul destroying decision to have to make, that you then carry with you FOR LIFE. Just because it seems like its the "better" option doesn't mean that it is.

Yes its easy. Just "abort it" :clap: Class.

Some of us aren't in a financially stable when we have children, wether it be that they were a mistake (we weren't ready) or wether they were planned because we desperately need that little bundle of joy. As parents we still strive to support them as best as we can and give them all the love that they deserve. (Money doesn't necessarily mean the child would be loved and looked after in the way that they need anyway).

She's a young mum who is obviously stuck in a rut. Maybe she has made some bad choices. Or maybe she made what she thought was the correct choice at the time but its not panned out exactly how she thought it would. Its not as though she's "breeding for a living" so cut her some slack.

Personally I hope she enjoys every cent of your tax up until she gets back on her feet. :eek:

[jrandom]

Having an abortion is an EXTREMELY difficult and potentially soul destroying decision to have to make, that you then carry with you FOR LIFE.

I have observed that one only tends to hear those sentiments from starry-eyed nincompoops who haven't actually had an abortion.

Then again, if one wasn't going to do anything with one's life in the first place... fairy muff.

:yes:


wether they were planned because we desperately need that little bundle of joy...

Ah, yes, if only the dole paid as much as the DPB, eh?

[Hitcher]

Abortion. Now how about you go and have one and come back in 10 years time and tell me that you don't regret it. Having an abortion is an EXTREMELY difficult and potentially soul destroying decision to have to make, that you then carry with you FOR LIFE. Just because it seems like its the "better" option doesn't mean that it is.

I think that the only people who can or should speak with any authority about abortion are those who have had to make that decision. Airheaded bimbos aside, I don't think that deciding to abort a foetus is a decision many take lightly. Indeed most people who choose this option are not teenagers knocked up for the very first time. They are generally more "mature" folks who are either already parents or having to come to terms with medical evidence that shows that the foetus carries defects of some kind that would severely impact on its quality of life or that of its parents.

Terms like "soul destroying" are much bandied emotional clap trap.

People who decide to terminate are worthy of consideration, support and respect, not condemnation, stigma or ridicule.

[XxKiTtiExX]

I have observed that one only tends to hear those sentiments from starry-eyed nincompoops who haven't actually had an abortion.

Then again, if one wasn't going to do anything with one's life in the first place... fairy muff.

:yes:



Ah, yes, if only the dole paid as much as the DPB, eh?

Actually I know more than a few women who have made the choice to have an abortion. Everyone that I know who has had one has regrets.




I think that the only people who can or should speak with any authority about abortion are those who have had to make that decision. Airheaded bimbos aside, I don't think that deciding to abort a foetus is a decision many take lightly. Indeed most people who choose this option are not teenagers knocked up for the very first time. They are generally more "mature" folks who are either already parents or having to come to terms with medical evidence that shows that the foetus carries defects of some kind that would severely impact on its quality of life or that of its parents.

Terms like "soul destroying" are much bandied emotional clap trap.

People who decide to terminate are worthy of consideration, support and respect, not condemnation, stigma or ridicule.

Never said that those who terminate aren't worthy did I? But having someone sit there saying "she should have done" is low. I understand perfectly what reasons are behind people chosing to have an abortion. (same ones that you stated). You are actually replying to someone who practically had to terminate at 31 weeks because their baby was literally dieing inside them. So if I want to use the term "soul destroying" I will.

[Hitcher]

So if I want to use the term "soul destroying" I will.

If the experience destroyed your "soul", then fair enough. However I suggest that you are not qualified to speak for others, so should couch personal opinion in a clearer context.

[jrandom]

Actually I know more than a few women who have made the choice to have an abortion. Everyone that I know who has had one has regrets.

So do I. And none of them would go back and change that decision.

Your perspective is not ubiquitous.

[XxKiTtiExX]

If the experience destroyed your "soul", then fair enough. However I suggest that you are not qualified to speak for others, so should couch personal opinion in a clearer context.

Not qualified no, but I'm sure there are "some" who would agree on that feeling after an abortion. As I'm sure there would also be "some" who would feel the complete opposite. I think what I typed was relatively clear.

"Potentially" was included.

[RantyDave]

Drifting off topic,
as emotive subjects do.
I am not a mod.