Work for the dole Yes/no?

[FROSTY]

Given it seems that NZ is as a country in the economic shit is now the time to have benificiaries work for their money?
Im not talking about those recently made redundant more the long term career unemployed and the sickness benificiaries with no physical reason they can't work.
Maybee like the prison workshops long term benificiaries with no physical reason they can't work should be trained in manufacturing goods we currently import from third world countrys. Or maybee they could be trained to build the houses desperatly needed to house the waiting list of families.

[Mully]

Yep.

And no money unless you do.

[007XX]

Bloody oath you should.

No such thing as a free lunch etc.

[JayRacer37]

hmm. Poll results are looking fairly obvious...

Considering we are apparently/definitly in this recession thingiee :scratch: Why should we pay more tax to pay people to do nothing?

I understand that due to the economy people are getting laid off, and that these people may need to go on the doll. Surely this is going to put more pressure on our taxes? If the people are working (be in meanial, for council govt etc, wherever someones 'skills' can be put to use) I have much less problem with paying my tax which includes doll payments.

[FROSTY]

Actually Jay my thinking is its those poor sods who actually NEED the help. But after 6 months on a benifit you have to ask "how hard are they looking for a job?"
I'm kinda thinking as an example a well known clothing factory was forced to close down due to the price of cheap import product from overseas. The equipment was just sitting there -why not use it?

[Lissa]

Not sure how it would work, unless they work in community or non profit organisations. You cant give people on the dole work that could actually be filled by them as jobs (so they pay taxes) instead of being on the dole. Jobs will have to be created for them especially wouldnt they?

[James Deuce]

Actually Jay my thinking is its those poor sods who actually NEED the help. But after 6 months on a benifit you have to ask "how hard are they looking for a job?"
I'm kinda thinking as an example a well known clothing factory was forced to close down due to the price of cheap import product from overseas. The equipment was just sitting there -why not use it?

Because the people who know how to service it and operate it are gone too.

When you shut down a manufacturing operation it is never as simple as turning the switch back on to get it going.

Why not work for the dole? Because it doesn't inspire people to get a "real" job and the grumblement(US! We pay for it with our taxes) end up with a product that's too expensive to ship overseas and too shit to sell locally.

There's a perception that people who are on the dole somehow deserve it and are lazy, good for nothing losers. Most people who are even slightly motivated (most of you out there, I'm picking) spend minimal amounts of time on the dole, or none at all, like I did when I was made redundant. I sold my books to second hand dealers for 3 months. Bit of a bastard because I used to have a decent library, but I didn't go on the dole.

The ONLY work for the dole schemes that work are service related - digging ditches, picking up garbage from the roadside, and cleaning grumblement buildings. It has to be simple stuff that people can do with a minimum of instruction. As Lissa has pointed out, it will create a whole bunch of grumblement expense to run. Depts, policy wonks, consultants, parliamentary secretaries, and so on, and so on. All tax payer funded.

People seldom think through the end-result of tax payer funded work for the dole schemes.

Pity the poor bastard who ends up in a work for the dole scheme and gets trapped in it.

[peasea]

Actually Jay my thinking is its those poor sods who actually NEED the help. But after 6 months on a benifit you have to ask "how hard are they looking for a job?"
I'm kinda thinking as an example a well known clothing factory was forced to close down due to the price of cheap import product from overseas. The equipment was just sitting there -why not use it?

There sure are some needy people out there but hey, a hand up, not a hand OUT is what is required. I have no objection to paying people enough money to keep going, so as long as they do just that. Sitting on your arse is not an option. I also think food vouchers would be far more productive than cash and rents for bennies paid direct to the l/l. Same with power/gas etc (half are SOE's anyway) and you wouldn't get them squandering the cash on P and the like. You could even say "here's three hundy bucks worth of gas/food/electricity vouchers, you can have 'em if you fill in those potholes etc, make the vouchers last all week, cya!"

Imagine how our roads would look if all the dole bludgers were made to fill in pot-holes, smooth the bumps and sweep the gravel off the edge! (Or from anywhere for that matter.) You can do a lot with picks and shovels. It would cost very little to equip some bods with brooms for cleaning the streets, rakes for grooming the beaches, nip pourers for getting my bourbons and Mothers wax to clean my bike.

Or is that going too far?

Erm, yes, Mother's ain't cheap......

[avgas]

Well I say no to dole. For one simple, tiny little reason.......the only time in my life when i badly need it (now) i do not qualify.
I think the whole system behind the dole is bullshit - i even struggled for help for 2 week, then found defeat rung up winz - only to find that due to my age, colour, status and rent i'm paying - i get NOTHING.
You see I'm in my mid-20's, white, married, and trying to save money by only paying $130/wk in rent. If either of those had changed - i got money. If i had a new bike in the shed that i was paying off - i would get money. If i was driving round in a new car rather than the $1400 heap i have....i would get money.

This is the second time i have been cheated by this system (first time was when i was a student).
I am being turned down for jobs for 2 reasons, i'm either over qualified or under qualified.
Thank god i have been smart with my money in the past - but still living off a finite amount of cash is hard. Its not "what should i buy this week" its "what will last a month in the cupboard".
If i hear nothing from the 100's of jobs i have applied for before end of June - i'm off to put myself 30K into debt again and will do my MBA. Atleast then i will get student allowance.....hopefully.

Whats ACC payouts like - i might go lie in the road.
Being made redundant is the most crushing experience i have had in my life - but i know i will get though.

but back to topic
nah fuck em all - get them applying to 50 jobs a day like me, then they can have it........but since NONE of them are doing the same as me, they need to be raped like i have.
fuck em all
Shoot the prisoners - and put all the bludgers in there if they need the system to support them.
Make them have to act like me

[Deano]

The dole should be a backstop for a limited period only to tide people over until they can look after themselves.

Dole "lifers' should be put to work as encouragement to get them into employment - even if they only get limited skills from the experience, and perhaps some work ethics. Screw the free lunch idea.

I know a lot of examples where dole 'lifers' have 'graduated' from the dole to the sickness benefit, cause they have learnt off of other 'lifers' how to manipulate the system.

Bugger that - harden up Govt and make it harder for people to screw the system. The dole should not be a lifestyle option.

A percentage of 'dole lifers' are criminals anyway, earning well above the average wage, but squandering it on drugs and shit. These are the ones that should be targeted. Test their urine as someone else has pointed out. No pass, no dole.

Don't get all PC and try and tell me I'm wrong. I've been around.

[CookMySock]

Yes, as long as they're not working for me. Wouldn't have them near my gear.

Steve

[BBikeRR]

I would work for the doll.

[peasea]

Don't get all PC and try and tell me I'm wrong. I've been around.

Slut................

[peasea]

I would work for the doll.

Too late, Helen has left the building.....

[JimO]

also who has noticed how many sickness beneficiaries end up in the court news, like if they are fit enough to break into peoples houses they are fit enough to get a job

[steve_t]

In think in Australia they actually have to prove they've gone to a certain number of job interviews per month to continue to receive the benefit. Sounds like a good plan for us too.
Training sounds good too but the ones that don't want to work/train will ruin it for those who genuinely want to work. If you have the apathetic ones building your house, how long would it take and how long til it leaks and rots? I don't think the guys that bust their asses to become Master Builders etc would be especially happy

[reofix]

how about this... between 17 and 65 we are entitled to 3 years of state support... use it as a student ... its gone... use it as unemployment ...its gone... never use it and pick up 100 k the day you turn 65... its a plan!!!

[peasea]

how about this... between 17 and 65 we are entitled to 3 years of state support... use it as a student ... its gone... use it as unemployment ...its gone... never use it and pick up 100 k the day you turn 65... its a plan!!!

Mind you, if a student went out and got a good job, then got made redundant through no fault of their own.......erm?

[peasea]

In think in Australia they actually have to prove they've gone to a certain number of job interviews per month to continue to receive the benefit. Sounds like a good plan for us too.
Training sounds good too but the ones that don't want to work/train will ruin it for those who genuinely want to work. If you have the apathetic ones building your house, how long would it take and how long til it leaks and rots? I don't think the guys that bust their asses to become Master Builders etc would be especially happy

You have to wonder how many Master Builders were involved in how many leaky buildings.

[riffer]

Seems pretty simple to me.

If you're working, it ain't the dole. The dole is a last resort thing. If people want to work, pay them a decent wage.

Otherwise people working for the dole will have the effect of driving down the minimum wage.

Some people just don't want to work. I say to them - tough. Contribute or find another way - we shouldn't have to support those who don't want to contribute.

But those who are in genuine need and deserve help should get as much support in education and work as we can give.

So no work for the dole. I would prefer education/training rather than meaningless busywork.

[reofix]

peasea... get with the program ... everyone gets three years of state support in their lives btwn 17 and 65 ... END OF STORY!! ... dont claim it and recieve it in cash the day you turn 65 ... perfectly fair... equality for all

[DEATH_INC.]

I've spent long periods of my life on the dole....I had to move to this shithole city to fix it. You cannot always get work, qualification, location, age, race, gender, blah, blah, blah. But it is a fact, there are more workers than jobs in this country, so some will be unemployed, why not those that just don't want to work rather than them being forced into a job that some deserving person could have?
As for working for the dole....whose jobs are they gonna take? It will happen, get 'em fixing potholes and roadworkers loose jobs, cutting grass on the roadside and the mower drivers can join them etc etc.....no, leave it as it is, with maybe a cap on what you can get (a guy with 6 kids gets payed better than me! )
How many of you have tried to get by on what they give ya? :shit:

[sunhuntin]

i say get em on the roadsides picking up litter! there so much of it on our main highways, and there doesnt seem to be anyone picking it up. or out scrubbing graffiti or scraping up chewing gum.

susans on the dole, shes spending her days either: going to a free farming course, if she can be bothered, or sitting on her ass in front of the tv. she was $80/week better off than me, and i was the one working part time [and receiving no winz support for rent etc] shes been on the dole since before xmas and hasnt applied for a single job. in that same time, i got one job thanks to mum, and successfully took on a second job.
ive been on the dole 3 or 4 times, but each time was only until the first decent job came along [or, even not decent job like the kiwifruit bullshit] and once those jobs came along, i stopped receiving ANY benefit or accomodation supplement, even though i was still entitled to it.

reofix... i had a similar idea, but for people who have not had a driving offence/ticket.

[SARGE]

Not sure how it would work, unless they work in community or non profit organisations. You cant give people on the dole work that could actually be filled by them as jobs (so they pay taxes) instead of being on the dole. Jobs will have to be created for them especially wouldnt they?

back in the Great Depression.. President Roosevelt started something called THE NEW DEAL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Deal).. part of that was a program called the WPA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_Progress_Administration)..also had the CCC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_Conservation_Corps) (Civilian Conservation Corps)


basically.. if you were fit to work.. the government gave you a job .. building roads, dams, nature trails, and other infrastructure..cleaning and dredging waterways..etc.. lotta good work got done that way


imagine putting all the dole recipients in that position .. picking up trash.. cleaning graffiti.. maintaining and insulating State Homes and other low income housing .. etc..

either that or carve them up for organs and meat...

[peasea]

back in the Great Depression.. President Roosevelt started something called THE NEW DEAL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Deal).. part of that was a program called the WPA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_Progress_Administration)..also had the CCC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_Conservation_Corps) (Civilian Conservation Corps)


basically.. if you were fit to work.. the government gave you a job .. building roads, dams, nature trails, and other infrastructure..cleaning and dredging waterways..etc.. lotta good work got done that way


imagine putting all the dole recipients in that position .. picking up trash.. cleaning graffiti.. maintaining and insulating State Homes and other low income housing .. etc..

either that or carve them up for organs and meat...

My thoughts exactly.

[Motig]

So theres a recession, people are being made redundant all over the country, others are returning from overseas having found that the world doesn't owe them a living and you brilliantly come up with the idea work for the dole. So where are all these jobs coming from? Are you giving yours up cos your so rich you dont need to work now? Perhaps if your in a high wage earner bracket you could be made redundant and a higher qualified person than you who has ended up on the dole thru no fault of their own could take your place, still be paid the dole and the company would love the extra profit. Remember theres already people doing all those jobs for minimum wage that people seem to think so called dole bludgers should do. I sometimes wonder if people are living in the real world when I see rubbish about the people on the dole.:2guns: Rant over:rolleyes:

[SARGE]

So theres a recession, people are being made redundant all over the country, others are returning from overseas having found that the world doesn't owe them a living and you brilliantly come up with the idea work for the dole. So where are all these jobs coming from? Are you giving yours up cos your so rich you dont need to work now? Perhaps if your in a high wage earner bracket you could be made redundant and a higher qualified person than you who has ended up on the dole thru no fault of their own could take your place, still be paid the dole and the company would love the extra profit. Remember theres already people doing all those jobs for minimum wage that people seem to think so called dole bludgers should do. I sometimes wonder if people are living in the real world when I see rubbish about the people on the dole.:2guns: Rant over:rolleyes:




someone's gotta clean the shitters...:done::doh:

[Motig]

someone's gotta clean the shitters...:done::doh:

Hey I've done that, easy with a hose from a distance:sick:

[SARGE]

Hey I've done that, easy with a hose from a distance:sick:

hell...big fuckoff 5 hp water blaster would sort it right out

[roy.nz]

Who ever says NO is most probally a long term dole user, go work you little using dicks....

[Slyer]

There's always countdown, the warehouse and maccas...
I say anyone who has been on the dole longer than 6 months should stop receiving money unless they are unable to work due to a real disability or kids etc...
Work for a year and you should be entitled to it again.

[Lucy]

You see I'm in my mid-20's, white, married, and trying to save money by only paying $130/wk in rent. If either of those had changed - i got money. If i had a new bike in the shed that i was paying off - i would get money. If i was driving round in a new car rather than the $1400 heap i have....i would get money.

Because you are white? Really?

Even if you 'got money', if you were paying off a new car or bike, you would still be worse off than you are now, they don't just take over your payments you know.


but back to topic
nah fuck em all - get them applying to 50 jobs a day like me, then they can have it........but since NONE of them are doing the same as me, they need to be raped like i have.


Raped? Really?

Are any of those 100s of jobs that you've applied for things like gas stations or McDonalds? Somehow I doubt it.

Rather than work for the dole schemes, it would behoove folks in this country to be compelled to visit the likes of India.

No-one is truly poor in NZ.

[Lucy]

i say get em on the roadsides picking up litter! there so much of it on our main highways, and there doesnt seem to be anyone picking it up. or out scrubbing graffiti or scraping up chewing gum.

.

I say get them on the roadsides with paintball guns shooting the bastards who do the littering!

[jrandom]

I don't actually think that 'dole bludgers' are a particularly huge problem, as such. And, as some have pointed out, there's nowt that can be done about the fact that we will never have 0% unemployment. S'just the way things work.

The real malingerers are on the sickness benefit and the DPB.

National's policy of ensuring that parents on the DPB with school-age children are either working or studying is a good one.

Enormous good could probably be done, too, by forcing GPs to tighten up their criteria for issuing 'too sick to work' certificates. I would bet good money that a majority of sickness beneficiaries are receiving it due to either 'depression', or some sort of vague-aches-and-pains complaint that somehow doesn't stop them leading an active recreational life.

[Lucy]

How come you are always smoking in your profile pics?

[CookMySock]

Who ever says NO is most probally a long term dole user, go work you little using dicks....No, I just don't want to be forced by the government to hire idiot dole-bludgers. That just just takes the problem out of their and your hands and puts it in mine. If they are going to do that then they can fucking pay for it - I have enough disasters to fix without spending all my time fixing even more disasters from people who are supposed to be here HELPING! It would be cheaper to sit them down on the front step and buy them beer than to try and run a business with them.

It would be different if they were out there cleaning up their own shit, ie graffitti and roadside KFC wrappers, with someone standing over them with a whip, PD-gang style.

Steve

[FROSTY]

So theres a recession, people are being made redundant all over the country, others are returning from overseas having found that the world doesn't owe them a living and you brilliantly come up with the idea work for the dole. So where are all these jobs coming from? Are you giving yours up cos your so rich you dont need to work now? Perhaps if your in a high wage earner bracket you could be made redundant and a higher qualified person than you who has ended up on the dole thru no fault of their own could take your place, still be paid the dole and the company would love the extra profit. Remember theres already people doing all those jobs for minimum wage that people seem to think so called dole bludgers should do. I sometimes wonder if people are living in the real world when I see rubbish about the people on the dole.:2guns: Rant over:rolleyes:
I really miss the point of your rant.
read the op again. Its NOT the genuine cases who Im talking about. Its the long term career unemployed/sickness benificiaries that Im refering to.
Definitely the unemployment benifit is there to help people who have fallen on hard times. There are odvious cases where a sickness benifit is their only option Those people I will ALWAYS support
You cannot honestly say there aren't jobs needing doing in every community that are not being done simply due to lack of funding.
What on earth do you think the PD crews do on a saturday ?.
AND heres the crux of the matter. The infastructure is already in place for a work for the dole scheme. The list of jobs needing doing is way in excess of the workers available to do them.

I know you can't use one example to generalise but one example that just tears my shorts is a sickness benificiary whos back is too sore for him to carry out a 9-5 job. He gets his $350 a week plus accomodation suppliment. Then from 9.30-3.30 he's our mowing lawns.
Do you honestly support people who don't want to help themselves?
6 months of not bothering to even look at the jobs available let alone going and looking for one.

[steve_t]

I know you can't use one example to generalise but one example that just tears my shorts is a sickness benificiary whos back is too sore for him to carry out a 9-5 job. He gets his $350 a week plus accomodation suppliment. Then from 9.30-3.30 he's our mowing lawns.


Exactly!! These people are just taking the piss! Tax free cash under the table for mowing, AND the benefit. Some people really know how to work the system!

[BMWST?]

yes,as long as the work being done does not disadvantage a company that does that work from getting that work.
At one time I was made redundant(I was a draughtsman) It took me a year to find another job .I probably applied for 80 ot 90 jobs,anything at all with do with the building industry/product/company.But as the whole building industry was depressed i didnt have much success.I had a new house,child/wife,six week stand down but then i go the dole....would have been out on the streets without it.

[scumdog]

Yup, make 'em work, even if it's picking up rubbish etc.

Sick of seeing slack-jawed mouth-breathing pimple-faced saggy-baggy trouser wearing layabouts passing on vital information on their cell-phone as they rush through their busy day consisting of X-box, tagging and smoking cannabis.

(Bought with money they got from ripping off a pensioners lawnmower to sell so they could pay for the aforementoned toke-weed.)


And you would think they would have time to step nearer the shower too, stinky buggers.

[scumdog]

I don't actually think that 'dole bludgers' are a particularly huge problem, as such. And, as some have pointed out, there's nowt that can be done about the fact that we will never have 0% unemployment. S'just the way things work.

The real malingerers are on the sickness benefit and the DPB.


Smoke and mirrors, many of those on the sickness benefit started on the unemployment benefit, Govt cooks the books by moving them sideways onto the sickness benefit list = less unemployed people.

[Max Preload]

You have to wonder how many Master Builders were involved in how many leaky buildings.

:Offtopic: but far more pertinent is how many home owners built their own 'leaky' buildings, you know, the very people being prevented from doing their own work under the new, more oppressive Building Act...


A percentage of 'dole lifers' are criminals anyway, earning well above the average wage, but squandering it on drugs and shit. These are the ones that should be targeted. Test their urine as someone else has pointed out. No pass, no dole.

I've always said that is should be at least as inconvenient to not have a job as to have one. I'd never submit to drug testing by an employer myself, but then again I do something for my money. (at least they seem to think I do... I'm at work right now...)


Who ever says NO is most probally a long term dole user, go work you little using dicks....

I said no and I'm not as per your description. In fact, given your apparently low level of education judging from your atrocious spelling, I'd say you're far more likely to be on the dole than me.


The real malingerers are on the sickness benefit and the DPB.

National's policy of ensuring that parents on the DPB with school-age children are either working or studying is a good one.

Enormous good could probably be done, too, by forcing GPs to tighten up their criteria for issuing 'too sick to work' certificates. I would bet good money that a majority of sickness beneficiaries are receiving it due to either 'depression', or some sort of vague-aches-and-pains complaint that somehow doesn't stop them leading an active recreational life.

And criminal life. Otherwise, fuck'n spot on, Bevan! :2thumbsup

[Naki Rat]

Work for the dole after 6 months even if it requires public works schemes to make it happen :niceone:

And regular random drug testing which denies them the dole if they fail it. If it's good enough for most of us to have to abide by this in order to earn the money which is taxed to pay these drones, then it's only fair that they remain 'clean' enough to be potentially employable :jerry:

[sunhuntin]

I say get them on the roadsides with paintball guns shooting the bastards who do the littering!

ooo, that sounds like a better option! wanna swap? LOL.

problem is, with career doleys, not all of em are on drugs. susans never taken a drug in her life, yet shes on her way to turning the dole into a career. same with a former flatmate... was also clean as a whistle, yet her kids are 3rd generation dole bludgers. [shes had 4 since 2005? no intention of ever working]

[davereid]

...Sick of seeing slack-jawed mouth-breathing pimple-faced saggy-baggy trouser wearing layabouts passing on vital information on their cell-phone as they rush through their busy day consisting of X-box, tagging and smoking cannabis.

Thats the thing. Called in at my mates workshop the other day. He was fixing a car for the same persons sister.

A WINZ chit was paying for the repairs, $600 worth.

Meanwhile, the apparently "broke" individual rolled herself a nice smoke, and proceeded to talk her way through $15 worth of pre-pay mobile time.

Yet I can't imagine why WINZ should be paying for car repairs, particularly for a beneficiary.

This individual did not have a job. So taking 35 minutes to walk to any destination in Levin would have done her no harm.

Plus the town has a $1 anywhere-in-town bus service, and free bus service to Palmerston North for visits to hospital etc.

Without begrudging my hard working pal the income he makes from an endless pile of blue WINZ chits, every single one costs a real worker a week or ten days pay.

Somehow it seems pointless - we just keep on funding the same circle of lose lose lose.

[FROSTY]

Actually thinking about this last night. Who exactly are the morons in this situation? The guys that see a pay packet every week for doing nothing or us as a society for allowing them to become third and fourth generation of unemployed?
We all know its a bullshit smokescreen the gubbinment pulled yet we let it happen.

[scumdog]

As I've said in the past: In a lot of states of the US if you are out of work you get a place to stay ( but not in all states) and food vouchers - non redeemable for booze - and you also have your drivers licence plucked until you DO get a job

I could hear the screams if they tried that here though...bloody softy governments that we have would never do that.

[FROSTY]

scummy -I've argued that this is EXACTLY how the dole needs to work here. Plain n simple voucher system.
Rent/morgage and power paid and the balance in food vouchers.
Arguably though the whole system needs to restructure so that for a certain period theres actual money in accounts.
This gives the actually motivated the ability to get to job interviews.

Then again the cynic in me goes yea right. Rent n power paid and lets create a nice little blackmarket in food vouchers.

[sunhuntin]

i spotted the perfect dole job today.

one of my daily haunts has a shallow stream [more of a polluted creek] within the property. the owner does sweet fuck all as far as keeping it cleared of weeds [to the point it flooded the business a few years ago] surely they could stick a bludger or two in the creek to both keep the weeds down and also clear the piles of rubbish thats left in it?

im sure there are many such waterways around the country that could use similar treatment.

[davereid]

Plain n simple voucher system.
Rent/morgage and power paid and the balance in food vouchers.
Arguably though the whole system needs to restructure so that for a certain period theres actual money in accounts.
This gives the actually motivated the ability to get to job interviews.
Then again the cynic in me goes yea right. Rent n power paid and lets create a nice little blackmarket in food vouchers.

Easy.

WINZ EFTPOS card. (Bludgercard?)

WINZ approved list of what, and how much it will buy, electronically controlled.

Your first few weeks, you can get the lot out in cash. But the longer you are on the system, the cash component drops over time, although your benefit does not.

Limited tradeables likes smokes and beer available each week on Bludgercard.

But a more generous ability to purchase veges and baby food.

Bludgercard wont buy petrol or diesel, and it can't be used for car rego, repairs or WOF. But its good for free or cheap public transport.

Bludgercard cant be used at the pub, or video store, thats what your cash allowance is for but you can use it at the library.

Rent and power paid from your card automatically. Deducted weekly before you get your top-up.

[gatch]

Of course it depends on the circumstances in which the individual is recieving welfare, but I don't think in a majority of cases that it would be unfair to introduce compulsory education or part time work for the state..

My sister is studying part time at massey, in between work part time and being a single mum. Then there is dick heads like some I know back in Levin, going to the doctor to get prescriptions for pain killers and certificates not to work that they don't need. Fcuk wits.

[ManDownUnder]

Yes - and it needs to be the work no-one else wants.

Give 'em all training on how to use herbicides, a backpack sprayer and point them at the gorse covered hillsides.

Follow that with spraying off the wild pine tress wherever the fuck they are, closely followed by rabbit baiting in the South Island, followed by... etc

They want money from the NZ economy, they need to contribute right back into it.

EOS.

[James Deuce]

No one kills gorse anymore MDU, it's the perfect plant to regenerate forest. The Rimutakas used to be covered in gorse and broom. They stopped killing it and the native bush came back. It has a simple root structure, a big space between the ground and the botom of the foliage, perfect for seedlings to grow in, and the thorns stops introduced pests like deer from getting to them at their most vulnerable. Best of all there's enough space for the seedlings to grow between the branches and without sunlight, the gorse just dies.

I'd prefer to train them how to use a broom and have them sweep the road for a week after road "repairs" have been carried out.

[FROSTY]

No one kills gorse anymore MDU, it's the perfect plant to regenerate forest. The Rimutakas used to be covered in gorse and broom. They stopped killing it and the native bush came back. It has a simple root structure, a big space between the ground and the botom of the foliage, perfect for seedlings to grow in, and the thorns stops introduced pests like deer from getting to them at their most vulnerable. Best of all there's enough space for the seedlings to grow between the branches and without sunlight, the gorse just dies.
Aintcha just a font of information ol bean.
Wonder how well that theory works in introduced trees

[Naki Rat]

Aintcha just a font of information ol bean.
Wonder how well that theory works in introduced trees

Just fine. Gorse is a perfect nursery crop as JD said. Go look at established pine plantations where the trees have shaded out the earlier sea of gorse. Problem is it regrows when the pines are harvested.

Also gorse is a legume so raises nitrogen levels in the soil by way of its roots fixing atmospheric nitrogen.

[FROSTY]

OHH BUGGER. Im praying my dad doesn't read this. Our Mangawhai track could be orrible if he does

[Slyer]

Easy.

WINZ EFTPOS card. (Bludgercard?)

WINZ approved list of what, and how much it will buy, electronically controlled.

Your first few weeks, you can get the lot out in cash. But the longer you are on the system, the cash component drops over time, although your benefit does not.

Limited tradeables likes smokes and beer available each week on Bludgercard.

But a more generous ability to purchase veges and baby food.

Bludgercard wont buy petrol or diesel, and it can't be used for car rego, repairs or WOF. But its good for free or cheap public transport.

Bludgercard cant be used at the pub, or video store, thats what your cash allowance is for but you can use it at the library.

Rent and power paid from your card automatically. Deducted weekly before you get your top-up.
Perfect! I like.

[Winston001]

Can anyone point to a country where work-for-the-dole is successful? We do not have this problem on our own. It must be possible to find some solution.

The underlying principle of social welfare is to provide a safety net for people in need. It is supposed to be temporary help and only wealthy nations can afford it. As Lucy says, have a look at India - indeed any third world country. You either work, beg, or starve. Simple but harsh and I don't suggest we do that.

Work for dole schemes require work which isn't already being done. Also supervisors. Transport to the job. Food, tea/coffee, toilets. Tools. Protective boots and clothing. There's a whole organisation required and its not as simple as we'd like to think.

[imdying]

As Lissa has pointed out, it will create a whole bunch of grumblement expense to run. Depts, policy wonks, consultants, parliamentary secretaries, and so on, and so on. All tax payer funded.Agreed, the losers that the OP is targeting (my assumption) are professional losers, can you imagine the logistical nightmare surrounding organising that mob? :bash:

[FROSTY]

Winstone Im sorry ol son it actually is that easy. You se the infastructure is already in place in that The periodic detention (PD) system is established nation wide. PD crews only work on a saturday with a very small contingent working on one weekday.
So the equipment is there. Staffing is in place for that day so the recruiting system for PD staff could be expanded to a 6 day a wekk job

[sunhuntin]

Limited tradeables likes smokes and beer available each week on Bludgercard.


i agree with all of your suggestions except this. i dont consider either are essential for a happy life. i think, if i was on the dole and used this card, id rather get petrol. then i wouldnt be reliant on a transport vehicle to and from the jobs outlined here.

[Winston001]

Winstone Im sorry ol son it actually is that easy. You se the infastructure is already in place in that The periodic detention (PD) system is established nation wide. PD crews only work on a saturday with a very small contingent working on one weekday.
So the equipment is there. Staffing is in place for that day so the recruiting system for PD staff could be expanded to a 6 day a wekk job

Not exactly Frosty. Periodic Detention was abolished in 2002. What used to happen was that PD Officers (who were akin to prison officers) supervised guys scrub-cutting, painting, whatever. Why it was abolished I do not know.

What we have today is Community Work -

Community work imposed can range from a minimum of 40 hours to a maximum of 400 hours. The offender must report to a probation officer who will determine the appropriate placement of the offender, ie at a community work centre or another agency, or a combination of both.

I can tell you that Corrections (Probation Service) struggles to find work. Furthermore they rely upon charities and public organisations to provide the work thus passing on the risk to community volunteers.

[FROSTY]

Not exactly Frosty. Periodic Detention was abolished in 2002. What used to happen was that PD Officers (who were akin to prison officers) supervised guys scrub-cutting, painting, whatever. Why it was abolished I do not know.
well phuc me ol son Frosty really showing his age
I still think the concept is the way to go but only after 6 months.

[popelli]

- and you also have your drivers licence plucked until you DO get a job



and exactly how do you attend job interviews without the ability to get there

[davereid]

and exactly how do you attend job interviews without the ability to get there

I don't agree that you should lose your licence for not having a job. But if you can afford to run a car, then your benefit may be too high.

Even in New Zealand in the 60s, working families did not all have cars, and two car families were unusual.

You didn't ask "whats your phone number ?"
You said "Do you have the phone on" as lots of working families couldn't afford a phone.

Yet now, WINZ seem to think that a car is an essential item, and cough up for car repairs as well as home phone "in case" you need to ring the Dr.

You use your Bludgercard on the bus.

After all, you are unemployed. Your state provided job is to look for work.

So if it takes you 2 hours and you spend half of that waiting for public transport, its part of your working day.

[SPman]

You have to wonder how many Master Builders were involved in how many leaky buildings.
Quite a few........

[popelli]

I don't agree that you should lose your licence for not having a job. But if you can afford to run a car, then your benefit may be too high.

Even in New Zealand in the 60s, working families did not all have cars, and two car families were unusual.

You didn't ask "whats your phone number ?"
You said "Do you have the phone on" as lots of working families couldn't afford a phone.

Yet now, WINZ seem to think that a car is an essential item, and cough up for car repairs as well as home phone "in case" you need to ring the Dr.

You use your Bludgercard on the bus.

After all, you are unemployed. Your state provided job is to look for work.

So if it takes you 2 hours and you spend half of that waiting for public transport, its part of your working day.

I take total offence at most of your comments, having been through a couple of redundancies and been unemployed a few times its not a lot of fun and maybe you could do with a spell of looking for work and see it from the other side of the fence

Public transport in NZ is a total joke, without wheels it is difficult to get to interviews and without a phone it is impossible to be contacted re work opportunities

However my cure for being unemployed in NZ was to leave, the opportunites and money available in the uk far exceeded that in NZ, would I ever return to NZ, the answer is no, there is bugger all work and I don't fancy 6 months on the dole looking for a job

However for professional bludgers who have no intention of ever getting a job something needs to be done

[peasea]

I take total offence at most of your comments, having been through a couple of redundancies and been unemployed a few times its not a lot of fun and maybe you could do with a spell of looking for work and see it from the other side of the fence

Public transport in NZ is a total joke, without wheels it is difficult to get to interviews and without a phone it is impossible to be contacted re work opportunities

However my cure for being unemployed in NZ was to leave, the opportunites and money available in the uk far exceeded that in NZ, would I ever return to NZ, the answer is no, there is bugger all work and I don't fancy 6 months on the dole looking for a job

However for professional bludgers who have no intention of ever getting a job something needs to be done

I can see where both of you are coming from.

I've been unemployed, out of wheels and broken-arse, it isn't fun. However, I've only been on the dole once even though I've been entitled to it more than once. Thankfully I have a skill that can be utilised when needed and the first time I was unemployed I certainly wasn't out of work. I fixed cars in the driveway at home in all weathers, got covered in shite, wet, cold and sore but I paid my bills.

I KNOW there are people out there who haven't got such skills and I also know that there are people who need a right kicking every morning. The latter tend to be the majority though. (Same with solo mums, don't start me. Sure you can have an accident, but several???)

It must be a difficult job being a 'case manager' when you see deserving cases going without and long-term bludgers getting it all.

[FROSTY]

Popelli. I think you are missing the point here. Guys (n gals) like you in your situation are what the system is set up for.
Dude I would fight for your right to assistance.

[avgas]

where is that winja guy - i heard he wanted his roof painted

[davereid]

I take total offence at most of your comments, having been through a couple of redundancies and been unemployed a few times its not a lot of fun and maybe you could do with a spell of looking for work and see it from the other side of the fence

No personal offence was intended ! Many kiwis are exactly as you say, very very keen to get a job, and I would begrudge non of them the dole.

But... it becomes a lifestyle for some.

And I, and everyone with a job loses income, time with their family and friends, to support a poor lifestyle choice made by someone else.

[popelli]

No personal offence was intended !

No worries

[James Deuce]

where is that winja guy - i heard he wanted his roof painted

I was under the impression that he manned up in the end and did it himself.

[scumdog]

and exactly how do you attend job interviews without the ability to get there

Bike?
Friend with car?


Most of the unemployed I know of see a car as a way of getting to court, to pick up more piss or do social visits.

Haven't had any say "Jeez, glad I have the car or I'd never have got to the interview for the job I now have"

But then I don't live in a city...

[monkeymsea]

Whoops clicked the wrong one...

I beleive that you should have to work for the doll 100 %

[Lunchbox]

Im currently on the sickie benefit (actual reason too) and i still do limited part time work.. you just don't get enough unless you live in the wop wops.

I can agree that a decent amount on the sickie benefit are just too lazy to work thats forsure.