What's going to happen to Holden? [Archive]

p.dath

1st June 2009, 17:09

Some of you people may have heard the US govenment announced that GM will file for bankruptcy. Now GM also own Holden and it appears GM are only going to stick to four brands and the rest are gone.

So do any of you business minded people believe Holden can stand on its own? It would be a shame to see such an iconic brand go under.

Nothing will be happening. It is a technical bankrupcy. The US Government is taking a 75% equity stake in GM. This is being done by placing GM into backruptcy, so that the equity can be changed, and then it is being brought back out of bankruptcy.

Sure, they'll be looking to trim expenses, make things more efficient, but it will still be trading.

Hitcher

1st June 2009, 17:14

I'd be more worried about the future of marques that have a significant GM shareholding rather than being owned outright -- like Saab and Subaru, for instance. Proper cars, not Holdens or Chevs.

Blackshear

1st June 2009, 17:20

Apologies for the low resolution, couldn't find a bigger one.

Chooky

1st June 2009, 17:46

Hey Hitcher first it was "shivering with delight" now its gone "chk chk BOOM".
Care to tell us.... I was thinking of getting one....

tri boy

1st June 2009, 17:50

Sure, they'll be looking to trim expenses, make things more efficient,

That will include approx 40-50000 jobs worldwide.
Funny thing is, one of the Waikato agents no longer advertises Holden much, (since they were told to find their own purchase funding, rather than relying on GM).
But they have chosen to market Cadillac.
Talk about jumping from lame horse to another.:weird:

davereid

1st June 2009, 17:52

My guess ?

Holden will become a car assembly plant, with the real australian 6 and 8 cyl cars becoming history.

You will still buy a Holden from your Holden dealer, but it will be a Daewoo small car, or an Opel large car.

The GM 6 cyl engine is made in Aussie and Michigan, it would be surprising if the US taxpayer poured money into the Aussie plant. Unless demand for the v6 increases, it will go out of australian production.

This engine is not really a good bet for any more development as Obama intends the US new car market to average 6-7l/100km within 7 years.

That doesnt mean the world will see the end of the V6 and V8, but GM in particular have to invest a lot in new engines, and the 6/8 cyl petrol engines won't get the funding.

Ford have already got modern engines, as they have invested in PSA for the diesel and direct injection engines PSA make, and will be able to use them, but GM lack suitable engine technology, and will have to access EU or asian technology.

So if half the car is sourced from the EU or asia, the RHD market is unlikely to be built in the US.

So your Holden will be an asian car, assembled in aussie.

Hitcher

1st June 2009, 17:55

Hey Hitcher first it was "shivering with delight" now its gone "chk chk BOOM".
Care to tell us.... I was thinking of getting one....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0L2VaTWs9s

popelli

1st June 2009, 18:18

So your Holden will be an asian car, assembled in aussie.

possibly not

Saab Opel and Vauxhall are in the process of being sold off

Opel Vauxhall and Holden are are mirror images of each other the main difference being the badge

Chances are the commonality will continue as part of the package to sell off Holden

Mully

1st June 2009, 18:24

The Aussie Govt will buy it if it comes down to it to protect jobs.

geestring

1st June 2009, 18:27

What's the problem? There are plenty of cars to choose from, and I'm sure people will find plenty of choice once Holden disappears. Good heavens, some Holden buyers may even buy Fords!

oh dear. you must drive a ford. even if ford were the only cars to choose from, never would we buy one:eek: anyway 5 cents are no longer worth anything either.:bleh:

skidMark

1st June 2009, 18:34

If either holden or ford is better its holden, but they are both rubbish because they are australian...

chinese ownership would probably improve them

or korean...

hyoden

holsung

davereid

1st June 2009, 18:34

possibly not

Saab Opel and Vauxhall are in the process of being sold off

Opel Vauxhall and Holden are are mirror images of each other the main difference being the badge

Chances are the commonality will continue as part of the package to sell off Holden

Yep, I agree - the German G'mint will chuck oodles of cash at Opel, and the Aussie G'mint will do the same with Holden.

But none of GMs US bailout cash will get to Melbourne.

Its unlikely that Holden will have enough cash to produce a completely local successor to the current commodore, and the family II engine range was already due for retirement by the end of the decade before the current crisis arrived.

An opel may be chosen, as it was for the basis of the original commodore. A daewoo may be a more likely choice for the future, as its closer, cheaper, and already RHD.

geestring

1st June 2009, 18:34

So do any of you business minded people believe Holden can stand on its own? It would be a shame to see such an iconic brand go under.

always holden, will hold togeather, only thing now is all the old parts are now going to cost a arm and a leg instead of a box of piss.:eek: we better start collecting all the old bodies around back yards and under trees, we will make a fortune.:niceone:

James Deuce

1st June 2009, 18:54

oh dear. you must drive a ford. even if ford were the only cars to choose from, never would we buy one:eek: anyway 5 cents are no longer worth anything either.:bleh:
Hahahahaha.

If only you knew.

But you don't.

You're on lithium, right?

Bling to the first person to ID the car: http://static.stuff.co.nz/1242122971/909/2405909.jpg

Coyote

1st June 2009, 19:02

You're on lithium, right?
I tried going on Lithium. But apparently it doesn't make you an emotionless Zombie. Damn.

Some die hard Holden fan/investor will buy the company name. After all, that's what brands are; names. If we're lucky, they might make a cool race inspired concept like car that has a limited production run and that'd be interesting to see coming out of Australia. Most likely they'll move all manufacturing to China and make Vectras.

Pedrostt500

1st June 2009, 19:34

Ah GM will take a page out of British Leylands book, now how did that go, ah yes 25 yrs of strikes, the Morris Marina, and 6 months of production.

Chooky

1st June 2009, 20:06

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0L2VaTWs9s

OK for a minute I thought your Prilla had sh*t itself..:cool:
Back to Holden....

Conquiztador

1st June 2009, 20:15

Nah. They finally come to their senses. The V6 will be cut in half and fitted to two of the wheels. They call it Bushpig, Crock or Jackaroo and Mad Max will ride them in to the sunset!

peasea

1st June 2009, 21:44

What's the problem? There are plenty of cars to choose from, and I'm sure people will find plenty of choice once Holden disappears. Good heavens, some Holden buyers may even buy Fords!

You've gone too far with that one, sport!

Infraction I say! :spanking:

peasea

1st June 2009, 21:52

and the family II engine range was already due for retirement by the end of the decade before the current crisis arrived.

Sad as that may be. While I'll admit the technology is almost as old as the ark you can't beat the aural sculpture emitted by a stout pushrod V8.

We've got a 5.7 and we love it to bits.

Kendog

1st June 2009, 21:59

05

:first::rockon:

AllanB

1st June 2009, 22:21

It's a shame in some ways - Holden has produced some crap over the years but the late ones are nice rides :niceone:

I suspect it will all depend on how well Holden Aussie/NZ are doing - are they in the green or red? Are they allowed to stand independently, feeding profits (if any) back to the USA?

Frankly it outstands me that a company has been able to make the huge losses GM has over the past years and blindly carry on with the same product!

James Deuce

1st June 2009, 22:30

GM had been actively considering making Australia their production base and standardising on the current Astra(Vaxhaull)/Viva(Daewoo)/Epica (Daewoo) platforms, with the Commodore (Opel) as the luxury/sporty model base.

Quality is vastly better in Australia and the lead times and budget for new model development are many factors lower than the expectations for a US based product.

Unfortunately, that plan vanished in the borrowing more 10s of billions of dollars from the Chinese via the US government just so we can keep using our gold plated toilet debacle.

The management would all be murdered in their beds by US assembly workers going postal in their (now copious) "own time" if it went through.

No good will come of GM crashng, I'll tell you whut.

Hitcher

1st June 2009, 22:39

I suspect it will all depend on how well Holden Aussie/NZ are doing - are they in the green or red? Are they allowed to stand independently, feeding profits (if any) back to the USA?

GM's receivers will be taking a very narrow US-based view, as they are largely responsible to US taxpayers and GM's US-based unions who are providing the cash to keep GM afloat. There is no "rest of the world" for your average American. The receivers' priority will be damage minimisation in the US and possibly Canada.

If Holden can find a cornerstone investor who can get an opportunity to have a meaningful conversation with the US receivers, then there may be a chance of a deal. That would be contingent on GM's Korean operations getting a chance to have a similar conversation.

I don't think that the Australian government is flush with cash for this sort of takeover.

And don't forget that it's pretty hard to find a state-owned car manufacturing success story anywhere in the world. The words "British Leyland" should have everybody trembling in their boots.

skidMark

2nd June 2009, 00:46

Sad as that may be. While I'll admit the technology is almost as old as the ark you can't beat the aural sculpture emitted by a stout pushrod V8.

We've got a 5.7 and we love it to bits.

I don't think its the love thats making it fall to bits.

xwhatsit

2nd June 2009, 00:54

And don't forget that it's pretty hard to find a state-owned car manufacturing success story anywhere in the world. The words "British Leyland" should have everybody trembling in their boots.
That Volkswagen went all right in the early years... some say the Nazi Hitler years had the best quality control :laugh:

Could Holden be spun out into its own thing? Don't they mostly use inherited engines not of their own design anyway -- how would they get access to that economically? Or was that the Ford 6-cylinders?

peasea

2nd June 2009, 06:31

I don't think its the love thats making it fall to bits.

You're just jealous.

davereid

2nd June 2009, 09:25

Could Holden be spun out into its own thing? Don't they mostly use inherited engines not of their own design anyway -- how would they get access to that economically? Or was that the Ford 6-cylinders?

The 3.8 litre Holden engine was an ancient old girl, originally sourced from Buick, who dumped it because it had inherent balance problems. (GM solved that with a crank redesign.)

The current V6 was a worldwide project, with Aussie a very important contributor, and still the major builder of the engine.

Holdens real problem is scale and export.

ie... The aussie/nz market is not big enough for Holden to be able to remain a manufacturer. It will be marginal for them to survive as an assembler, but G'mint money may assure that to save jobs.

They need export markets. But just like we are seeing with agriculture, the EU and US are protecting their own.

With $$$Billions$$$ of taxpayer dollars being poured into rescue packages, it is not practical to think that US and EU autoworkers will continue opening engine and CKD crates from australia and add paint and badges !

p.dath

2nd June 2009, 09:48

The 3.8 litre Holden engine was an ancient old girl, originally sourced from Buick, who dumped it because it had inherent balance problems. (GM solved that with a crank redesign.)

The current V6 was a worldwide project, with Aussie a very important contributor, and still the major builder of the engine.

Holdens real problem is scale and export.

ie... The aussie/nz market is not big enough for Holden to be able to remain a manufacturer. It will be marginal for them to survive as an assembler, but G'mint money may assure that to save jobs.

They need export markets. But just like we are seeing with agriculture, the EU and US are protecting their own.

With $$$Billions$$$ of taxpayer dollars being poured into rescue packages, it is not practical to think that US and EU autoworkers will continue opening engine and CKD crates from australia and add paint and badges !

But Holden do export, into the European market, under the brand Opel (Google "Opel Commodore").
Also you need to remember that one of the reasons Holden exists as a manufacturer in Australia is because Australia regards it as a critical DEFENCE asset. The Holden factory is capable of manufacturing heavy munitions. For this reason alone the Australian government wont allow the factory to close. Australia really doesn't have any other facilities to produce such munitions (currently they buy most of them from foreign countries, but they want the capability to manufacture should they need to).

davereid

2nd June 2009, 10:05

But Holden do export, into the European market, under the brand Opel (Google "Opel Commodore").

Yes, Holden also export to the USA, and Asia and have for many years.

My suggestion is, that these exports will come under threat in the same way our agricultural exports have.

US taxpayers expect to bail-out US jobs.

Even though we may not see obvious tariffs, you can bet that GM officials are looking across the table at US Government officials and being asked why the Chevy Lumina can't be made in Michigan instead of Melbourne.

p.s. the Opel arrangement is generally the other way around.. that is Holden base production on an existing Opel.. ie Commodore was an aussie built opel.

Finn

2nd June 2009, 10:10

Whenever I see a Holden (or Ford) I think "rapist, wife beater, knuckle dragger" etc, etc. So surely both brands disappearing can't be a bad thing.

skidMark

2nd June 2009, 10:14

Whenever I see a Holden (or Ford) I think "rapist, wife beater, knuckle dragger" etc, etc. So surely both brands disappearing can't be a bad thing.

Well you cant see over the wheel finn so it must anger you to see that holden badge in the steering wheel at eye height eh?

Finn

2nd June 2009, 10:15

Well you cant see over the wheel finn so it must anger you to see that holden badge in the steering wheel at eye height eh?

Since when has line of sight been an issue for NZ drivers?

Mikkel

2nd June 2009, 10:22

Bling to the first person to ID the car: http://static.stuff.co.nz/1242122971/909/2405909.jpg

Easy, that's a Opel/Vauxhall/Holden Astra wagon... Hitcher should have gotten that. ;)

Opel Vauxhall and Holden are are mirror images of each other the main difference being the badge

Well, Opel models have been sold under a wide range of brand names across the world. One of my mates here in NZ has a "Pontiac Lemans" (fancy name eh) which is just a rebranded Opel Kadet.
And that seems to be how it works, Opel cars being sold to different markets under different brandnames. I.e. the Vectra, Astra and Omega are all traditional Opel models. This thing is most definitely NOT a Holden:

http://www.opel6070club.com/oulu03/gt70_ulko2.jpg

NZsarge

2nd June 2009, 10:32

I'd be more worried about the future of marques that have a significant GM shareholding rather than being owned outright -- like Saab and Subaru, for instance. Proper cars, not Holdens or Chevs.

I'd far rather see Holden stay intact as it is than worry about the likes of Saab (can't remember the last time I saw a Saab on the road and half of them are just re-skinned Subaru's now anyway) and Subaru, could'nt give a toss about Subaru, they don't build cars I can fit into anyway (stupid lack of knee room under the steering wheel, it's got nothing to do with the girth of my stomach if that's what you were thinking) and heaven help Subbie driver might have to contemplate a Mitsubishi! :laugh:

Beemer

2nd June 2009, 10:41

I'd be more worried about the future of marques that have a significant GM shareholding rather than being owned outright -- like Saab and Subaru, for instance. Proper cars, not Holdens or Chevs.

Mr H, if you're not careful the open invitation to afternoon tea and whiskey drinking at our place will be rescinded! We now own a Chev if you don't mind!

And Mikkel, that looks like a Chinese-made Corvette - very sad!

Pixie

2nd June 2009, 10:51

GM Australia will go cap in hand to the Chinese, and they will be refinanced, and re badged as Ping Foo.
2 cylder diesels will be matched to a jigger gearbox and V8 supercars will be inundated with drivers who look like Jackie Chan. MHO

Everybody wins,then.

Aussie cars are crap anyway

Mikkel

2nd June 2009, 10:52

I'd far rather see Holden stay intact as it is than worry about the likes of Saab (can't remember the last time I saw a Saab on the road and half of the are just re-skinned Subaru's now anyway) and Subaru, could'nt give a toss about Subaru, they don't build cars I can fit into anyway (stupid lack of knee room under the steering wheel, it's got nothing to do with the girth of my stomach if that's what you were thinking) and heaven help Subbie driver might have to contemplate a Mitsubishi! :laugh:

Unlike Holden, Saab at least has a history of innovation behind them. Granted, that particular characteristic has kinda slipped into the background since GM took over.

As for Subarus, I'd dare say that there is not a better suited vehicle for NZ than the Subarus. The bang and quality you get for your money is second to none. But yes, I'd have to agree that the ergonomics sometimes leaves something to be desired.

And Mikkel, that looks like a Chinese-made Corvette - very sad!

That just goes to show how little you know - bloody philistines.
What you look at is impeccable German engineering - well maybe not, but at least it looks good. Considering that it's a 1965 design the Opel GT is a classic.

Pixie

2nd June 2009, 10:54

My guess ?

Holden will become a car assembly plant, with the real australian 6 and 8 cyl cars becoming history.

What are they now?
Commodore:A modified Opel with a Suzuki designed engine

NZsarge

2nd June 2009, 11:12

Unlike Holden, Saab at least has a history of innovation behind them.
And look where that got them...
As for Subarus, I'd dare say that there is not a better suited vehicle for NZ than the Subarus. The bang and quality you get for your money is second to none. But yes, I'd have to agree that the ergonomics sometimes leaves something to be desired.

Does'nt matter how well suited the car is to our conditions if they are geared to fit Asians rather than European bodies, at least in most Mitsubishi's I can get my knee's under the steering wheel and have sufficient headroom and last time I looked Mitsi made plenty of comparable cars to Subaru that are more suitable ergonomically to the average NZ'er be they big or small.

At least in a Holden (Commodore, particularly the VE) I know once the driving position is adjusted I can get in and out of the car with relative ease and have a reasonable seat/pedal/steering wheel relationship ergo wise which is more than I can most cars including the later model Falcons which are quite bad...

Indiana_Jones

2nd June 2009, 12:06

All this GM stuff kinda sounds like a re run of Norton Villiers Triumph....

-Indy

Mikkel

2nd June 2009, 12:16

All this GM stuff kinda sounds like a re run of Norton Villiers Triumph....

-Indy

I loved Clarksons comment on British Leyland:

"Never in the field of human endeavour has so much been done, so badly, by so many."

Swoop

2nd June 2009, 12:24

...which is more than I can most cars including the later model Falcons which are quite bad...
Well, fords are designed for the more "portly" sized motorist.

NZsarge

2nd June 2009, 12:43

Well, fords are designed for the more "portly" sized motorist.

I had a BA XR6 Turbo which has to be said was a pretty nice car, went well, bit too soft in the suspension for my liking but for normal road driving it was fine really, brake were shite in more ways than one.. But getting in and out of it is what pissed me of the most on a day to day basis, the seat is way to high both ergonomically and in relation to the roofline access wise, had to bend myself up like a bendy thing to get in and out of it and once the seat was set for a reasonable leg reach the steering wheel was miles away. In a VE Commodore I can set the wheel and seat to an excellent driving position and then get in and out of the car easily. Tried the FG Falcon and that was maybe even worse than the BA for getting in and out but better for comfort and driving position but still not a patch on the Commodore.

geestring

2nd June 2009, 13:00

Nah. They finally come to their senses. The V6 will be cut in half and fitted to two of the wheels. They call it Bushpig, Crock or Jackaroo and Mad Max will ride them in to the sunset!

yeh bring back mad max styles. lets start our own, why wait for everyone else to do it. after all they never make one car to do what we want to do in this country. MAD MAX IT.....:2guns:

geestring

2nd June 2009, 13:08

I had a BA XR6 Turbo which has to be said was a pretty nice car, went well, bit too soft in the suspension for my liking but for normal road driving it was fine really, brake were shite in more ways than one.. But getting in and out of it is what pissed me of the most on a day to day basis, the seat is way to high both ergonomically and in relation to the roofline access wise, had to bend myself up like a bendy thing to get in and out of it and once the seat was set for a reasonable leg reach the steering wheel was miles away. In a VE Commodore I can set the wheel and seat to an excellent driving position and then get in and out of the car easily. Tried the FG Falcon and that was maybe even worse than the BA for getting in and out but better for comfort and driving position but still not a patch on the Commodore.

TOATLY AGREE. my work car was a XR8 manual 6 speed ute with all the extras. frankly yup piece of shit. sorry, except one thing was good for doing burnouts.

NZsarge

2nd June 2009, 13:20

TOATLY AGREE. my work car was a XR8 manual 6 speed ute with all the extras. frankly yup piece of shit. sorry, except one thing was good for doing burnouts.

I've heard some horror stories from both sides of the fence to be fair and my XR was'nt a crook car really but it was let down by some shitty design details and the thing the gets up my nose id they did'nt fix them in the new FG series. Neither of the Falcon/Holden are perfect by any stretch but for me at this point the Holden definitely gets the nod.
I reckon the Holden ute (particularly the blue SSV) is one of the nicest vehicles looks wise to come out of Ozzy yet..

White trash

2nd June 2009, 13:56

To answer the question if no one else has, see here.

http://www.v8.co.nz/news/3900/general-motors-announces-bankruptcy-holden-unaffected

Nothing is the answer.

ManDownUnder

2nd June 2009, 14:14

To answer the question if no one else has, see here.

http://www.v8.co.nz/news/3900/general-motors-announces-bankruptcy-holden-unaffected

Nothing is the answer.

The most relevant poart fo that (for me) is

"The process being used in the US is unlike Australian and New Zealand law. It is a fast, court supervised process that permits the sale of selected assets to a new entity,” Mr Reuss said. “Unlike court-controlled processes in many other countries, US chapter 11 allows GM to deal with the financial issues that have built up over many years and for New GM to emerge as a healthier business, better able to deal with the challenges of today and tomorrow. “It does not mean ceasing to trade.” Pending approvals, the New GM is expected to launch in about 60 to 90 days as a separate and independent company from the current GM, with two distinct advantages: it will be built from only GM’s best brands and operations, and it will be supported by a stronger balance sheet due to a significantly lower debt burden and operating cost structure than before."

GM ain't dead... Chapter 11 is the court saying "bad debt ain't ever going to be repaid, and all things considered we think the best course of action is to write off debt that can not be serviced while paying back those we can, and trade our way out of it"

Of course if the NEW GM fails - that's a different story...

Blackbird

2nd June 2009, 14:46

Everybody wins,then.

Aussie cars are crap anyway

I haven't got any axe to grind not having owned an Aussie-assembled car but my neighbour has just bought a Clubsport 5.7 and let me take it out for a strop. Leaving the engine power out of the equation, I was seriously impressed with how quiet it is, how well it handled and the attention to detail. Certainly on par with other makes. For me, the brakes were the feature which impressed me most. Unbelievably powerful but with no drama at all.

It would be a shame if Holden did become a casualty because they do make a good product, at least with the Clubsport.

davereid

2nd June 2009, 15:36

Sadly its mostly spin.

While its entirely true that GM US won't (and can't) close the doors at Fishermens Bend, they wont be ordering too much stock there either.

The VE commodore is a very very good car, there is no doubt that it is as good a vehicle as GM have ever made, anywhere.

But it is not selling - through no fault of its own, fewer people are buying cars, and the 6 cyl segmant of the market is declining.

This would be less of a problem if Holden could export cars and engines, but as I commented before, the door is already closing.

One of the brands GM US are dumping is Pontiac, which had a lot of Aussie input.

The Holden Cruze is a Daewoo, destined for aussie assembly. With generous government assistance, it will be possible for lots of aussie parts to go in, so the aussie manufacturing may survive.

Holden WILL survive. But only an amazing optimist would say its going to be buisness as usual for either GM or Ford.

Pussy

2nd June 2009, 15:50

As long as Fords are still being built, quite frankly I don't see what the problem is

geestring

2nd June 2009, 16:03

As long as Fords are still being built, quite frankly I don't see what the problem is

for your sake pussy i just hope ford dont go into aviation.: :shit::eek:

crazyhorse

2nd June 2009, 16:06

Buy a FORD - they're winning the championships anyway...... :laugh:

Chooky

2nd June 2009, 17:52

for your sake pussy i just hope ford dont go into aviation.: :shit::eek:

Ha...they did try, I will go through my photos and find one..
A Fletcher with a Ford V8 in it.....Did you get a drive of it Pussy...???

Pussy

2nd June 2009, 18:23

Ha...they did try, I will go through my photos and find one..
A Fletcher with a Ford V8 in it.....Did you get a drive of it Pussy...???

Not I... what about you? I only saw it flying on the day of it's first flight.

I would rather fly behind a tried and proven aeroplane engine!

scumdog

2nd June 2009, 18:51

Well, fords are designed for the more "portly" sized motorist.

Hence why my '66 Ford Thunderbird has a steering-wheel that swings to one side to allow the more (ahem) portly types entry and exit.

JimO

2nd June 2009, 18:54

Hence why my '66 Ford Thunderbird has a steering-wheel that swings to one side to allow the more (ahem) portly types entry and exit.

mmmmm you got a chunderbird scummy, there is a harley riding guy in dunedin has one as well, he is a mate of a mate

scumdog

2nd June 2009, 18:56

mmmmm you got a chunderbird scummy, there is a harley riding guy in dunedin has one as well, he is a mate of a mate

And a mate of mine, the long-haired git:laugh:

Pussy

2nd June 2009, 19:10

Here we go.... Fords DO fly!
And Fieldair's GM powered one didn't

scumdog

2nd June 2009, 19:14

Here we go.... Fords DO fly!
And Fieldair's GM powered one didn't

Same motor as my hot rod - but about 150lb lighter!

Pussy

2nd June 2009, 19:17

Same motor as my hot rod - but about 150lb lighter!
And no dirty big Hartzell bolted to the front of your 'rod, Tom! :)

Ixion

2nd June 2009, 19:31

'S a cage. One cage make more, one cage make less, who cares :yawn:

Skyryder

2nd June 2009, 19:43

Rudd will problay nationalise the company.

But on a more seriouse note Holden are probably safe for the mo.:Punk:

Skyryder

Chooky

2nd June 2009, 19:46

Yer Ford V8.....635 cubs...550 HP..

scumdog

2nd June 2009, 20:23

And no dirty big Hartzell bolted to the front of your 'rod, Tom! :)

Yup, it runs cool enought without one:laugh:

Pedrostt500

2nd June 2009, 20:39

Ford made the Rolls Royce merlin engine under licence in WW2, they also built an aircraft after the war, seen pics in a very old National geographic mag. Howard hughes used ford V8s in the Spruce Goose, though I may be corrected very soon.
There was a group of guys a few years ago who re-enacted the first flight from the UK to Austrailia in a Vickers Vimmy Bomber copy of WW1 fame, that was powered by Chev V8s,
But holden will be renamed British Leyland and re make Morris marinas.

Ixion

2nd June 2009, 20:39

Ford Trimotor. Very famous aeroplane.

geestring

2nd June 2009, 20:57

Here we go.... Fords DO fly!
And Fieldair's GM powered one didn't

Thank goodness you like fords then. we woulnt want you to fall out of the sky.

Pussy

2nd June 2009, 21:06

Pussy

2nd June 2009, 21:14

Thank goodness you like fords then. we woulnt want you to fall out of the sky.
I never did fly the V8.
Bugger reciprocating engines anyway.... me like the jet!

Slyer

2nd June 2009, 21:20

They said at the end of the section about it on TV3 than Holden will NOT be affected.
There you have it folks.

James Deuce

3rd June 2009, 07:58

The BMW V12s they stuck in the Vickers Vimy replica that flew across the Atlantic in 2005 seemed to work alright. Damn sight more reliable than the original Rolls Royce Eagles, and 40HP more to boot, while being 1/4th the capacity at 5.0L versus 20.0L for the Eagle.

James Deuce

3rd June 2009, 08:05

They said at the end of the section about it on TV3 than Holden will NOT be affected.
There you have it folks.

The only old school US motor company to survive this recession will be Ford. They are the only one with credible, quality small and mid-sized platforms, and the only US car company to divest itself of private jets and hotels well before the recession took hold.

The reality is that there was too much competition in the car sector, without significant points of difference. GM's aquisition and subsequent extermination of once iconic European brands rings the same bell British Leyland rang in the 60s and 70s.

We could easily get by with one Japanese, one US, one Korean, one French, and one German marque respectively.

NZsarge

3rd June 2009, 08:21

But holden will be renamed British Leyland and re make Morris marinas.
:bash: Wash your mouth out, that's just down right mean...

We could easily get by with one Japanese, one US, one Korean, one French, and one German marque respectively.

That's probably true, if you want to argue that point I guess the world would get by with only one car and one bike manufacturer but by jove that'd be dead boring would'nt it?

My vote goes for the VAG Group and Yamaha. :niceone:

Slyer

3rd June 2009, 08:38

James Deuce

3rd June 2009, 08:51

:bash: Wash your mouth out, that's just down right mean...

That's probably true, if you want to argue that point I guess the world would get by with only one car and one bike manufacturer but by jove that'd be dead boring would'nt it?

We couldn't get by with a single manufacturer from a single culture because there'd be no competition, no development, and little reason to produce a quality product. You'd end up with Russian cars, or worse, the Morris Marina.

The biggest issue facing the US car industry, which Ford to their credit recognised many years ago, was that the US car industry had stagnated in terms of development and quality, while the rest of the world was going in a completely different direction. There was no market competitiion, simple brand loyalty was keeping some marques going, while the consumer had lost all interest in vehicle dynamics. They just wanted a big SUV or small truck with big rims and a giant engine. Because their dealer and manufacturers told them they did, while artificially low fuel prices encouraged the practice.

NZsarge

3rd June 2009, 09:41

We couldn't get by with a single manufacturer from a single culture because there'd be no competition, no development, and little reason to produce a quality product. You'd end up with Russian cars, or worse, the Morris Marina.

I said it could get by with one car manufacturer, does'nt neccessarily it would be a good one... :lol:
Just imagine, nothing but Lada's on the road... :blink::pinch:

NZsarge

3rd June 2009, 09:45

Not for Yamaha...

Scuse me but i'll take an R1 over you're "FrankenGPX" any day dude.

Elysium

3rd June 2009, 16:48

Scuse me but i'll take an R1 over you're "FrankenGPX" any day dude.

Well if we had to stick to one motorcycle brand then reliability would be important, hence why it would be Honda :wari:

Don't want Kawasaki Morris Marina's on the road :scooter::dodge:

NZsarge

3rd June 2009, 16:56

Well if we had to stick to one motorcycle brand then reliability would be important, hence why it would be Honda :wari:

If that were the case i'll stick with Lada thanks...
If you feel like a little excitement in your riding sometime pop down to your local Kawasaki dealer sometime.... :D:niceone:

Slyer

3rd June 2009, 17:32

Scuse me but i'll take an R1 over you're "FrankenGPX" any day dude.
So would I? Brand alligience only lasts so long...
I would take a Honda, Suzuki etc first though.

SARGE

3rd June 2009, 18:04

DEJA VU DUDE ..

difference is .. WE had Lee Iococca...

On September 7, 1979, The Chrysler Corporation petitioned the United States government for US$1.5 billion in loan guarantees to avoid bankruptcy. At the same time former Ford executive Lee Iacocca was brought in as CEO. He proved to be a capable public spokesman, appearing in advertisements to advise customers that "If you find a better car, buy it." He would also provide a rallying point for Japan-bashing and instilling pride in American products. His book Talking Straight was a response to Akio Morita's Made in Japan.

The United States Congress reluctantly passed the "Chrysler Corporation Loan Guarantee Act of 1979" (Public Law 96-185) on December 20, 1979 (signed into law by President Jimmy Carter on January 7, 1980), prodded by Chrysler workers and dealers in every congressional district who feared the loss of their livelihoods. The military then bought thousands of Dodge pickup trucks which entered military service as the Commercial Utility Cargo Vehicle M-880 Series. With such help and a few innovative cars (such as the K-car platform), especially the invention of the minivan concept, Chrysler avoided bankruptcy and slowly recovered.

In February 1982 Chrysler announced the sale of Chrysler Defense, its profitable defense subsidiary to General Dynamics for US$348.5 million. The sale was completed in March 1982 for the revised figure of US$336.1 million.[19]

By 1983, the loans were fully repaid,[20] several years ahead of time, resulting in a profit of $350 million to the U.S. government.[21] New models based on the K-car platform were selling well. A joint venture with Mitsubishi called Diamond Star Motors strengthened the company's hand in the small car market. Chrysler acquired American Motors Corporation (AMC) in 1987, primarily for its Jeep brand, although the failing Eagle Premier would be the basis for the Chrysler LH platform sedans. This bolstered the firm, although Chrysler was still the weakest of the Big Three.

In the early 1990s, Chrysler made its first steps back into Europe, setting up car production in Austria, and beginning right hand drive manufacture of certain Jeep models in a 1993 return to the UK market. The continuing popularity of Jeep, bold new models for the domestic market such as the Dodge Ram pickup, Dodge Viper (badged as "Chrysler Viper" in Europe) sports car, and Plymouth Prowler hot rod, and new "cab forward" front-wheel drive LH sedans put the company in a strong position as the decade waned.

James Deuce

3rd June 2009, 18:12

Met Mr Iacocca when I worked at Wm. Collins Publishers.

Also borrowed his stuff for an piece I wrote on the parallels between Motown Music and the Detroit auto industry's rise and fall. Very clever, no BS man who would be horrified at the corporate excess that developed at Chrysler and GM.

98tls

3rd June 2009, 19:12

The only old school US motor company to survive this recession will be Ford. They are the only one with credible, quality small and mid-sized platforms, and the only US car company to divest itself of private jets and hotels well before the recession took hold.

The reality is that there was too much competition in the car sector, without significant points of difference. GM's aquisition and subsequent extermination of once iconic European brands rings the same bell British Leyland rang in the 60s and 70s.

We could easily get by with one Japanese, one US, one Korean, one French, and one German marque respectively. Nail on the head methinks,though i read an interesting article the other day that suggested its not to late for them via producing only small front wheel drives,they suggested its to late to abort the next makeover for the Commodore but after that :bye::bye:They base some of this on when Reuss took over Holden in 2008 his first big project was to get a small front wheel drive produced in Aussie by 2010.Personally i dont really care what happens to Holden,pretty much always have and still do drive a Ford.:yes:

Motu

3rd June 2009, 19:40

Just imagine, nothing but Lada's on the road... :blink::pinch:

I'd be happy with that - the Lada is the only car I've got that has character....and even a ham fisted mechanic like me can fix it.

You would of thought the Yank would have learned from past experience - they were caught making the wrong cars in the early '70's.I took them decades to start making almost good vehicles again....and then they went the bigger and bigger the better way again.WRONG....again!!!!!

They deserve everything they get,financially,and the loss of their car industry.Unfortunatly the rest of the world suffers too.In the '70's,the rest of the world just laughed at them....and sold them the cars they should have been making.