Bring back corporal punishment?

[FROSTY]

Following allong from another thread. Should corperal punishment be reintroduced to NZ society?
For example allowing teachers to cane a child that misbehaves. Parents not risking jail for smacking a child in public. The police allowed to kick a kid in the backside for smoking in public.

[MattRSK]

No .

[MSTRS]

Yes. Eventually. Must undo the the legislation/s in reverse order.

[slofox]

Two minds on this one.

1. Allowing those in authority to use force just sanctions the use of force - ie "it is OK to use force when you have the power to do so". So kids think force is OK since authority figures use it. And thus the cycle is perpetuated.

BUT

2. Some kids really do need a kick up the arse. Some so-called adults need their knees broken. I'm thinking of the mindless thugs here...

Overall? Verily, 'tis a mindfucker...

[idb]

I want to be able to beat other people's kids.

[Colapop]

If the gubbermint cannot differentiate between reasonable force and too much force already (that's why we needed the anti-smacking legislation - it was already a crime to hit kids) then they are not going to be able to figure out corporal punishment.

If it's a yes or no question then first you need to take the criminal's rights into consideration... *TUI*

[Magua]

Why so serious, Frosty? You're asking a lot of big questions lately.

And no, I don't think it's a good idea.

[p.dath]

Following allong from another thread. Should corperal punishment be reintroduced to NZ society?
For example allowing teachers to cane a child that misbehaves. Parents not risking jail for smacking a child in public. The police allowed to kick a kid in the backside for smoking in public.

I think something along the lines of "reasonable force" should be considered. Otherwise the road we are on now will effectively rule out all contact.

For example, is the act of holding my son's hand now illegal? The action I take of grasping my son's hand is not that different to a slap on the face - its just the force involved and the intent. In both cases an open handed palm will strike his skin.

And at what point does a hug become illegal? Just how firmly can I hug him now? Very difficult to say with the current law which allows no tolerance.

[slofox]

I want to be able to beat other people's kids.

I've actually done that - as a teacher years ago I whacked the odd kid with the approved piece of cowhide...not often, but it did happen...:crazy:

[ManDownUnder]

Yes, but the whole are needs to be more:
1) Open and transparent (thereby open to peer review for fear of putting some damned label on it)
2) Issue a few guidelines/do a campaign like the Super Maori Fullas... etc. There are people that genuinely don't see the line in the same place the rest of us do... give or take.

For me the bigger issue is psych abuse. Pretty hard to spot, and gradually grinds victims into helpless emotional puddles who then go on to repeat the behaviour per any abuse cycle.

[idb]

I've actually done that - as a teacher years ago I whacked the odd kid with the approved piece of cowhide...not often, but it did happen...:crazy:

Felt good didn't it...damned good...

[allycatz]

Having grown up in the times of corporal punishment through school, I think its fairly obvious the link between downhill slide of todays youth to abolishment of the cane. Theres no fear of consequence for actions now. Harshest punishment meted out is days off school...'big deal'. There is also no respect for rules. True there was always some a'hole who took it to far but I don't think the majority of us suffered to greatly. I also think a tougher line in schools would make up for the lack of two parent family discipline.

[Indiana_Jones]

And no, I don't think it's a good idea.

Of course you'd say that...........faggot..........:lol:

I'm all for putting the little shits back in their place, perhaps a different approach is needed.....


"20 days, Cooler!"

<img src="http://varifrank.com/images/bigsteve.jpg">

-Indy

[idb]

Yes, but the whole are needs to be more:
1) Open and transparent (thereby open to peer review for fear of putting some damned label on it).....

I agree, do it in the town square like the good old days and give it a new zingier euphemistic description...'corporal punishment' carries too much negative baggage.

[koba]

Following allong from another thread. Should corperal punishment be reintroduced to NZ society?
For example allowing teachers to cane a child that misbehaves. Parents not risking jail for smacking a child in public. The police allowed to kick a kid in the backside for smoking in public.

Maybe Kids should be smacked for bad spelling?

[Big Dave]

It's when it graduates to Sergeant punishment the trouble starts.
Major punishment is serious too. By the time it gets to General Punishment it lacks focus.
Private punishment is best left to the privates.

[idb]

......
Private punishment is best left to the privates.

Now that's just cruel and sadistic...ask John Bobbitt.

[MSTRS]

Maybe Kids should be smacked for bad spelling?

Now then...some things are better off left in the past. Like getting a crack over the knuckles for using the left hand.

[Ixion]

Uh. Does this extend to spanking chicks that get uppity ? Just asking, like.

[Indiana_Jones]

Uh. Does this extend to spanking chicks that get uppity ? Just asking, like.

Everything's legal till you get caught ;)

-Indy

[MSTRS]

Uh. Does this extend to spanking chicks that get uppity ? Just asking, like.

Perhaps. But you're not allowed to spank 'em to get up'em. Gotta think of your blood pressure...

[PirateJafa]

Now then...some things are better off left in the past. Like getting a crack over the knuckles for using the left hand.

Sod that.

Lefties are the children of Lucifer himself. We are morally obliged to beat it out of them, and in doing so, return them to the righteous path of the Lord almighty.

[SpankMe]

Uh. Does this extend to spanking chicks that get uppity ? Just asking, like.

Beat your woman every day. if you don't know why, she will.

[short-circuit]

Following allong from another thread. Should corperal punishment be reintroduced to NZ society?
For example allowing teachers to cane a child that misbehaves. Parents not risking jail for smacking a child in public. The police allowed to kick a kid in the backside for smoking in public.

I wouldn't give you licence to hit anyone - you can't even spell "corporal punishment" let alone administer it.

Seriously
1, It's been clearly established that it doesn't work (with any age group).
2, It increases incidents of abuse
3, It sends the wrong message about dealing with problems

[idb]

Sod that.

Lefties are the children of Lucifer himself. We are morally obliged to beat it out of them, and in doing so, return them to the righteous path of the Lord almighty.

I read that it was a Ginga Leftie that shot Franz Ferdinand and started WW1.

[Swoop]

Bring back the cane... and the Town Hall stocks.

[MSTRS]

I wouldn't give you licence to hit anyone - you can't even spell "corporal punishment" let alone administer it.

Seriously
1, It's been clearly established that it doesn't work (with any age group).
2, It increases incidents of abuse
3, It sends the wrong message about dealing with problems

R-I-G-H-T.
Show us the literature that proves...
1/. Violence etc was on the increase prior to all this namby-pamby bullshit, and
2/. That violence etc has decreased since

[Indiana_Jones]

R-I-G-H-T.
Show us the literature that proves...
1/. Violence etc was on the increase prior to all this namby-pamby bullshit, and
2/. That violence etc has decreased since

What that old guy said........:D

-Indy

[Magua]

I wouldn't give you licence to hit anyone - you can't even spell "corporal punishment" let alone administer it.

Seriously
1, It's been clearly established that it doesn't work (with any age group).
2, It increases incidents of abuse
3, It sends the wrong message about dealing with problems

I found this to be an interesting read.
http://www.apa.org/releases/spanking.html

[slofox]

Maybe Kids should be smacked for bad spelling?

In my form two class, we had a sliding scale of whacking for spelling mistakes. Good spellers, like I was, got two whacks per mistake. Average dudes got one per and poor spellers got one whack per two errors...now ya can't get fairer than that!!!

[Finn]

I wouldn't give you licence to hit anyone - you can't even spell "corporal punishment" let alone administer it.

Seriously
1, It's been clearly established that it doesn't work (with any age group).
2, It increases incidents of abuse
3, It sends the wrong message about dealing with problems

...says the lefty hypocrite who wanted (wants) to punch my lights out.

However, I agree with you on being anti corporal punishment. Mandatory birth control for the poor would be much more effective.

[Mikkel]

Definitely not. Violence breeds violence no matter how you look at it. Anytime you feel the need to physically punish anyone it's because your brain isn't able to keep up with the situation.

Actually there was a rather decent article (http://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/columnists/2481497/A-question-smacking-of-deceit) on stuff about it yesterday.

[vifferman]

Cane people who can't spell. Especially words like 'corporal'.

[Mikkel]

Cane people who can't spell. Especially words like 'corporal'.

Non-commission?

[sunhuntin]

id like to see it brought back. the vast majority of my school "mates" would have benefitted from the cane or strap. i remember several kids threw chairs and rubbish bins at teachers during class, and i understand they have got worse since i left. but the cane etc should only be used for serious issues [fighting, throwing things at people etc. not for spelling mistakes or what hand they write with.]

the behaviour of young adults has gotten worse over the last few years. hell, it was bad enough when i was 5 years old, never mind 20 years later. and i can safely say thats down to lack of decent punishment in school and in the home. although, in saying that, i was glad the cane was gone when i started schools, but i still avoided acting up or getting in trouble cos i knew id cop it at home.

[kiwifruit]

no :)

[Swoop]

In fact, re-thinking this subject...

The Cane is old fashioned and teachers need to be seen keeping up with technology...

Join my campaign, "Tazers for Teachers"...:banana:

[Maha]

Hell yeah, didn't do me any harm....:wacko:

I earned my stripes at High School, never got any more than three in the 'Hit Parade' as it was known.

[ManDownUnder]

I wouldn't give you licence to hit anyone - you can't even spell "corporal punishment" let alone administer it.

Seriously
1, It's been clearly established that it doesn't work (with any age group).
2, It increases incidents of abuse
3, It sends the wrong message about dealing with problems

Those sound like the words of abused child to me...

[martybabe]

Private punishment is best left to the privates.

You punish your own privates, bad big dude.


In my form two class, we had a sliding scale of whacking for spelling mistakes. Good spellers, like I was, got two whacks per mistake. Average dudes got one per and poor spellers got one whack per two errors...now ya can't get fairer than that!!!

Farks me, must have been great for dyslexics.

Corporal Punishment:

I'm afraid it's to big an excuse for abuse , I'm convinced violence and bad behaviour has increased in my lifetime but there doesn't seem to be any consequences for anything any more, wouldn't we have run havoc if the olds had no power to stop us?

I was mercilessly and unjustly beaten at school for minor indescretions, at home too come to that. My only way of dealing with it was to beat the living bejesus out of any one that so much as looked at me sideways.

I can't subscribe to the (it never did me any harm) brigade, in my case it turned an innocent fun loving kid into an introverted, violent mofo of a teenager full of resentment and anger.

All the above doesn't stop me wanting to bash some of the buggers though. :calm:

[FROSTY]

Cane people who can't spell. Especially words like 'corporal'.
THANK YOU - only TWO of ya noticed. :2thumbsup
For those that missed it corporal punishment/corperal punishment.
Yea the real point was to see how many noticed the typo.

Still I spose its a valid question though even if misspelt.

[NDORFN]

No. Totally against it. Teachers and police would just abuse the fuck out of it, and what right do they have to hand down instant punishment without trial, when they themselves are anything but role-model material. It would just lead to generations of rebelious teens seeking retribution for being discaplined by hypocrites.

[Karl08]

I have spent the last 15 years working with some of the worst young offenders in our local community (6 of those were providing residential care). I have worked with sexual offenders, gang kids.... well you get the idea.
The cane/strap was never an option, instead you learn to modify behaviour, you slowly introduce discipline into lives that have never known personal responsability or discipline.

Were there consequences to actions? Don't get me wrong, there were those that spent many long hours on the end of brooms, shovels.... well you get the idea.

I was part of the last generation to get the cane, and what did it teach us? Better to get the fast 6 strokes, rather that sacrifice a weeks worth of after school detentions. As in most schools, it was always the same boys being caned-mmmm effective?

So, there are two options when presented with "naughty behaviour"- The old quick and easy model which punishes the boy today. Or the slow, harder work model of preparing the man he will become. I know which eventually worked on me, and I know which one should stay back in the past with the other "good old days" that we constantly hear about.

[MSTRS]

I don't think any of us who are 'for it', are proposing that it would be a panacea for all of society's ills. But as in the case of a parental smack, it should be available for some 'crimes' along with a host of other strategies.

[mynameis]

What's with all these threads mate?

Mid life crisis? :lol:

[FROSTY]

Nope-just hoping someone gives me shit about the typo

[short-circuit]

Nope-just hoping someone gives me shit about the typo

Thanks for the bling - can I have more for pointing out that the third option on the pole has another grammar fail:

Yes provided its withing guidelines

[short-circuit]

...says the lefty hypocrite who wanted (wants) to punch my lights out.

True enough - you're a special case. Except I'd like to bash you for the hell of it, not because it'd bring about a change in your behaviour.

[FROSTY]

Thanks for the bling - can I have more for pointing out that the third option on the pole has another grammar fail:

Yes provided its withing guidelines
nahh that was me bein a blind ol barsteward

[Swoop]

THANK YOU - only TWO of ya noticed.
Sorry mate. Some of us are polite and are looking at the bigger picture.

[FROSTY]

Sorry mate. Some of us are polite and are looking at the bigger picture.
Sorry mate, I wanted to use something people were pretty emotive about.

But hey don't let my stupid little social experiment get in the way of a good discussion :whistle:

[Swoop]

Sorry mate, I wanted to use something people were pretty emotive about.

But hey don't let my stupid little social experiment get in the way of a good discussion :whistle:
Sorry mate, but from a classroom viewpoint, kids who thrive on being the centre of attention because of their behaviour and "antics" (throwing chairs at teachers FFS??) need a "real world experience".

[Big Dave]

Learn to spell, you colwn.

[Paul in NZ]

Maybe Kids should be smacked for bad spelling?


Now that is a golden KB moment.....

[Motu]

Cane people who can't spell.

In the 3rd form we were caned for failing maths tests - every maths period (5 a week) we had a test,those that failed got 2 canes.What did I learn? How to cheat,and how to avoid getting caught.

This came in very useful later in my life...without corporal punishment I might have gone to jail.

[koba]

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond
words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and
respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise
[disrespectful] and impatient of restraint" (Hesiod, 8th century BC).


"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

ATTRIBUTION: Attributed to SOCRATES by Plato, according to William L.
Patty and Louise S. Johnson, Personality and Adjustment, p. 277
(1953)."


Blah, blah, same old same old.:zzzz:

Why not talk about somthing new, like that new Aprilia V4..?:2thumbsup

No, Wait, that's a bike; this is hardly that place for talking about bikes!:pinch:

[Finn]

True enough - you're a special case. Except I'd like to bash you for the hell of it, not because it'd bring about a change in your behaviour.

Take a number.

[Hitcher]

Corporal punishment is a game. It's a ritual designed to create a natural order of things involving that forgotten word, consequences.

Last century, when I went to high school, caning was something from which only limp fops with a note from their mummy atesting their haemophilia were exempt.

Part of the ritual of caning involved "calibrating" male teachers. Those who knew how to whack were afforded more courtesy and respect than those who didn't. On one occasion, a new teacher was deemed to be a pussy. Thanks to the prefects, he spent a lunch hour caning all the third form boys. This task reduced him to tears, silly man.

At the other end of the scale, one day in sixth form chemistry, the boys in the back row were having a chat. An item of discussion was whether anybody knew anybody who had been caned by Mr Anderson, our chemistry teacher. Nobody could. Fascinating. That meant there was only one thing for it. Our certified Iron Arse, young Brent, "volunteered" by pouring some teepol over a gas tap, turning it on and then, a few moments later, invigorating the pile of gaseous foam with a bunsen burner (as you do).

"Who did that?" enquired Mr Anderson. Brent's hand was up in a flash. "Staff room, now!"

Some minutes later an ashen-faced Brent returned. "How many?"

"One."

Mr Anderson know how to play the game and had figured out that he only needed to cane one lad very well once every five years to maintain a legend.

[DougB]

I still have the cane I used hanging on my den wall. It has red tape on the end (I used to tell the kids it was there so the blood would not show). It is called 'Whistling Rufus' and on occasions when I was confronted with an unruly class I would carry it in swinging it to make a swishing sound and say "Boys Whistling Rufus is feeling well today"

I seldom had cause to use it, near all my thousands of pupils responded to being treated as equals in the quest for knowledge. When I first started teaching, in the late 1950's I used it in my workshop on any pupil who committed an unsafe act. 'I will hurt you to remind you not to hurt yourself'
One of the rules related to leaving the chuck key in the lathe chuck. Then one day I observed a lad sneaking a chuck key into another boys lathe.
Naturally he got caned.

I don't believe that caning did any harm or much good but it did allow a quick sharp punishment for an offence, which was thensettled quickly.

They used to tell us never to cane while angry, that was the only time I could.

I also would never cane a lad who was delinquent, they needed counseling it never would do any good except relieve the teachers tension. Only healthy normal pupils would benefit from the short sharp shock.

[doc]

Disipline is all about Fear. You touch a hot stove element and it hurts and you dont do it again.

I would rather have some disipline in our society than having this present PC correct liberal thing that is going on.

However there ain't many male role models in this modern system. I think some of the next generation are looking forward to the antics they can get up to when they become a sports stars.

[puddy]

Capital punishment. Kill 'em all!

[PrincessBandit]

Beat your woman every day...

You sure you meant woman Spank?


In fact, re-thinking this subject...

The Cane is old fashioned and teachers need to be seen keeping up with technology...

Join my campaign, "Tazers for Teachers"...:banana:

I like it!


Take a number.

Cripes - you have them waiting in line like at the fishnchip shop????


Hey, besides I thought Frosty meant "corporeal" punishment ;)

[Big Dave]

'Best thing about the death penalty in Texas? Less Texans.' - George Carlin.

[_Shrek_]

you shell smack them & they will not die, you shell smack them & deliver their souls from hell.... :whistle:

[Rayray401]

Disipline is all about Fear. You touch a hot stove element and it hurts and you dont do it again.

I would rather have some disipline in our society than having this present PC correct liberal thing that is going on.

However there ain't many male role models in this modern system. I think some of the next generation are looking forward to the antics they can get up to when they become a sports stars.

mm..agree with this..kids got too many rights these days..

[Mikkel]

Disipline is all about Fear.

You can not be truly free if you are not free from fear. Anyone who strives to control other people through fear is unworthy of both respect and freedom. Nevermind all of this material wealth with which we surround ourselves, the true gift we should appreciate is the freedom that we enjoy - why anyone should be allowed to compromise that in any way is beyond me.

[MisterD]

Thanks for the bling - can I have more for pointing out that the third option on the pole has another grammar fail:

I didn't see any pole, perhaps the lack of a flag flying from the top meant I missed it?

...bloody minefield once you start picking holes eh?

[MSTRS]

Hey, besides I thought Frosty meant "corporeal" punishment ;)

Oh, I'm sure he did. Not much use belting the bejesus out of one's shadow, is it?

[Maha]

Corpril punishmint never hurt anyone, well, maybe the re'ceva.....:spanking:

[FROSTY]

I think somewhere along the line we have had a reality shift.Baseing ones arguments on the basis that children are in effect midget adults is a misguided concept.

[Hitcher]

Private Parts
Corporal Punishment
Major Pain
General Nuisance

The armed farces have much to answer for.

[MSTRS]

Private Parts
Corporal Punishment
Major Pain
General Nuisance

The armed farces have much to answer for.

Indeed they do, also responsible for Mouldy Old Dough (Lieutenant Pigeon)

[short-circuit]

I didn't see any pole, perhaps the lack of a flag flying from the top meant I missed it?

...bloody minefield once you start picking holes eh?

No one will believe me if I use Frosty's "that was intentional" defence - but I really am that damned clever...honest...

[Hitcher]

Indeed they do, also responsible for Mouldy Old Dough (Lieutenant Pigeon)

And doing it to me one more time (Captain & Tennille)

[doc]

You can not be truly free if you are not free from fear. Anyone who strives to control other people through fear is unworthy of both respect and freedom. Nevermind all of this material wealth with which we surround ourselves, the true gift we should appreciate is the freedom that we enjoy - why anyone should be allowed to compromise that in any way is beyond me.

Cmon... you are obviously from the PC liberal side . :bash:

[Mikkel]

Cmon... you are obviously from the PC liberal side . :bash:

Liberal, most definitely. PC? Suck my cock nigger... ;)

If anything the PC brigade is trying to limit our freedom in order to keep everything nice and tidy... Life isn't, get over it.

[The Pastor]

step out of line, you answer to mr 308

[geestring]

Following allong from another thread. Should corperal punishment be reintroduced to NZ society?
For example allowing teachers to cane a child that misbehaves. Parents not risking jail for smacking a child in public. The police allowed to kick a kid in the backside for smoking in public.

indeed. if they dont get it at home they have to get it some where. true story; friend was in foodtown and kid was playing up as they do, father gave the kid a tap on the bum and said stop it, a voice from behind said in germany we dont smack our children, he replied, in nz we dont gas our jews. i thought itwas fantastic. as long as it is not over board it should be reintroduced.

[dangerous]

compusary military schooling... yip worked for my parents generation, bring in back and I bet the wee shits of today will learn some respect for others and property.

[doc]

compusary military schooling... yip worked for my parents generation, bring in back and I bet the wee shits of today will learn some respect for others and property.

It was CMT which then became NSTU. They were called noggies.

Can't understand the feeling that military Boot camp type discipline is going to be of any benefit, other than to the give them a chance to be better organised when they finish the training so they can annoy us more efficently.
:crybaby:

[scumdog]

It was CMT which then became NSTU. They were called noggies.

Can't understand the feeling that military Boot camp type discipline is going to be of any benefit, other than to the give them a chance to be better organised when they finish the training so they can annoy us more efficently.
:crybaby:

True.

But hey also might have learned to use a shower, brush their teeth, wash dishes and a whole raft of thing most of the rest of us know how to do - and they don't.

[98tls]

True.

But hey also might have learned to use a shower, brush their teeth, wash dishes and a whole raft of thing most of the rest of us know how to do - and they don't. Amen to that,whilst they learn the basics theres also boundaries established,the establishes of said boundries aotumatically gain respect and bingo everyone wins,once someone can understand the concept of respect the world starts to become a much better place.

[dangerous]

Amen to that,whilst they learn the basics theres also boundaries established,the establishes of said boundries aotumatically gain respect and bingo everyone wins,once someone can understand the concept of respect the world starts to become a much better place. yep... worked for the most of our olds did it not.




It was CMT which then became NSTU. They were called noggies.

Can't understand the feeling that military Boot camp type discipline is going to be of any benefit, other than to the give them a chance to be better organised when they finish the training so they can annoy us more efficently.
:crybaby:

What would you sugest then?
If nothing else at least it will keep the wee shits busy/intertained instead of busting up bus shelters and driving around aimlesly destroying the roads and getting into drugs... cos they have nothing beter to do.

[devnull]

Two minds on this one.

1. Allowing those in authority to use force just sanctions the use of force - ie "it is OK to use force when you have the power to do so". So kids think force is OK since authority figures use it. And thus the cycle is perpetuated.



I'm curious why people still cling to that old argument when it's been debunked so often.

It's like saying drinking coffee, or smoking, leads to heroin addiction

Didn't anybody read the Millichamp study results from Otago Uni?