Police officer guilty of assault

[davereid]

A police officer who followed a man onto his driveway, and then arrested him has been found guilty of assault in a private prosecution. The judge has ruled she had no power to arrest and the use of handcuffs constituted an assault. Police will now face a separate claim for false arrest.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10577607

[peasea]

Oh dear, oh no, arrrrgh, faaaaark, here it comes.....


Just fell off me chair again!

[98tls]

:wari:Great no Coro tonight so this should prove just as worthy.:drinkup:

[CookMySock]

Thats very interesting. It seems since there was no pursuit, the officer had no right to arrest him on his property, OR even ask him for his details.

Mr Tonks had been uncooperative and initially declined when asked to give his name. Judge Strettell said Mr Tonks had no obligation to be co-operative in the circumstances. The courts had held that a driveway was a private area. Section 119 of the Act provided power for the police to enter private property if an officer suspected that the driver had failed to stop when required, or had committed an offence and there had been a fresh pursuit. He held that without these conditions, the constable had no power to arrest Mr Tonks for failing to provide his details unless he was on a roadway, beach, or a place to which the public had access.

My understanding was, that I had to provide my personal details to an officer at any time, but it seems this is not so.

Steve

[Ixion]

..
My understanding was, that I had to provide my personal details to an officer at any time, but it seems this is not so.

Steve

Any time in a public place

[peasea]

Any time in a public place

I've been asked for my details many a time on private property.

[98tls]

I've been asked for my details many a time on private property. Yea but back then prostitution wasnt legal.:blank:

[short-circuit]

I've been asked for my details many a time on private property.

Why? Been a naughty boy? :spanking:

[Trouser]

My understanding was, that I had to provide my personal details to an officer at any time, but it seems this is not so.


Not far removed from "Show me your papers"

[peasea]

Why? Been a naughty boy? :spanking:


Often, but I'm serious here. The cops have taken my details on private property heaps of times. I used to be a scallywag as a teenager, always at the wrong (right?) parties, some of which were broken up by riot police. "Details please!" .... "Certainly officer..........."

[peasea]

Yea but back then prostitution wasnt legal.:blank:

Neither was gay sex but I've never been a big fan of hookers, I'm too tight fisted, (which they might enjoy, who knows) and I can't see why you want to have sex with guy when there's perfectly good drunken floosies about.

[short-circuit]

Neither was gay sex but I've never been a big fan of hookers, I'm too tight fisted, (which they might enjoy, who knows) and I can't see why you want to have sex with guy when there's perfectly good drunken floosies about.

Yeah - it's starting to make sense to me why you are a man of interest....to the police

[Ixion]

I've been asked for my details many a time on private property.


OK. Clarification. A police officer may ask for your details any time any place if he has grounds to suspect you have committed an offence. If you are driving a motor vehicle in a public place, he is entitled to demand your details even in the absence of any suspicion of offence . Or, under S119 the police may enter private property if an officer suspected that the driver had failed to stop when required, or had committed an offence and there had been a fresh pursuit.

In the case cited, the officer had no grounds to suspect that the person had committed an offence (hence the reference to no active pursuit etc) ; and he was on private property.

So , in summary

If he reckons you committed a "proper" (non traffic) crime - anywhere any time (not quite - but sort of)
Or, often , if you are connected with a scene where there is evidence of a crime. Like being at a party where quantities of Certain Scheduled Substances are found.
If you done a runner - he can follow you and arrest (or demand ID etc) on private property
If you committed a traffic offence and he is chasing you - ditto
If you are driving in a public place - he can demand ID (ie licence) any time

Otherwise, if you are on private property he has no power to demand ID, or search, or even question (assuming he hasn't got a warrant)

However : there are as always all sorts of exceptions and gotchas. And , by and large there is nothing to be gained by getting up the rozzer's nose. His feet already hurt, why make his nose hurt. Unless you have a reason not to , why not just show him the ID.

The fundamental common law principle, respected for about 1000 years was that no subject could be detained , interrogated or required to produce ID unless the police has some grounds for suspecting him of an offence. Then lots of exceptions got sneaked in, the most notable being that if you are in charge of a motor vehicle, you lose most of your rights. Including the right to not have to produce ID.

This is exactly the same as that senior cop a while ago who also told them to shove off (he wasn't arrested but).

[98tls]

Neither was gay sex Have to take your word on that one mate.

[peasea]

If I were to get up a coppers nose, would that make me a booger?

[peasea]

Have to take your word on that one mate.

A bit like the six o'clock swill. (Possibly some connection? Shutting pubs at 6.00pm is a bit gay isn't it?)

[short-circuit]

A bit like the six o'clock swill. (Possibly some connection? Shutting pubs at 6.00pm is a bit gay isn't it?)

No, haven't quite managed to "pull off" a recovery there

[98tls]

No, haven't quite managed to "pull off" a recovery there Thats what i was thinking:argh:Will the real Peasea please stand up.;)

[scumdog]

A police officer who followed a man onto his driveway, and then arrested him has been found guilty of assault in a private prosecution. The judge has ruled she had no power to arrest and the use of handcuffs constituted an assault. Police will now face a separate claim for false arrest.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10577607

Ah, ya win some, ya lose some.

Sort of like life except you don't have so many wins in life...;)

[CookMySock]

The fundamental common law principle, respected for about 1000 years was that no subject could be detained , interrogated or required to produce ID unless the police has some grounds for suspecting him of an offence. Then lots of exceptions got sneaked in, the most notable being that if you are in charge of a motor vehicle, you lose most of your rights. Including the right to not have to produce ID. I have had a few times at WOF/Rego/License "checkpoints" where I genuinely did not have my license on me. They went over my vehicle and could find no grounds for any infringement whatsoever, and interestingly did not ticket me for being unable to produce my license.

See the connection here?

A. No offence having been committed.

B. Identification demanded, but no infringement notice issued when it was not produced.

Perhaps they cannot legally demand ID (license) while I am otherwise square with the law? Different story if I do any misdemeanor - then they fuzz may demand ID, at which point I must produce my license.


Steve

[peasea]

Thats what i was thinking:argh:Will the real Peasea please stand up.;)

I could say "harden up you lot" but that would just encourage you.

[scumdog]

I have had a few times at WOF/Rego/License "checkpoints" where I genuinely did not have my license on me. They went over my vehicle and could find no grounds for any infringement whatsoever, and interestingly did not ticket me for being unable to produce my license.

See the connection here?

A. No offence having been committed.

B. Identification demanded, but no infringement notice issued when it was not produced.

Perhaps they cannot legally demand ID (license) while I am otherwise square with the law? Different story if I do any misdemeanor - then they fuzz may demand ID, at which point I must produce my license.


Steve

Can ask for licence anytime you're driving

You MAY get a ticket if you don't have it on you.

You are more likely to get a ticket for not producing your licence if you have also committed an offence.

You will most likely get a ticket for not producing you licence if you have committed an offence AND shown how staunch you are by having a Bad Attitude (tm).

[Max Preload]

I see parallels with this (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=91918) thread...

[NDORFN]

Scumdog are you a pi... pirg... prog... pag... pargen shit man, I just can't seem to type it. You know what I'm trying to say. So are ya?

[98tls]

Scumdog are you a pi... pirg... prog... pag... pargen shit man, I just can't seem to type it. You know what I'm trying to say. So are ya? :yawn:yes he is your point being?

[NDORFN]

Nothing. I'll just try not to be staunch and avoid having a bad attitude around him is all. Might get reemed :pinch:

[peasea]

Scumdog are you a pi... pirg... prog... pag... pargen shit man, I just can't seem to type it. You know what I'm trying to say. So are ya?

I'll do it for ya.
Pog.

There ya go.

[peasea]

:yawn:yes he is your point being?

I'll huff and I'll puff, especially in court.
hang on, that was woolfy......
Orrr, nah, give it up

[peasea]

Nothing. I'll just try not to be staunch and avoid having a bad attitude around him is all. Might get reemed :pinch:
There's no 'might' about it. Coppers will do what they can to make a point, ask David Bain, Scott Watson, Aurhtur A, Thomas, me!

[98tls]

Nothing. I'll just try not to be staunch and avoid having a bad attitude around him is all. Might get reemed :pinch: As much as you may think you have you really have no idea of getting "reemed",that aside methinks be as staunch as you like,fuck practice whilst watching the reflection in the mirror if need be but a penny to a pound my money would be on his reaction being nothing more than a here we go again kind of roll of the eyes,by no means dont let my opinion stop you perfecting the art of staunch but once again a penny to a pound life will sort the wager out.Good luck with it.

[NDORFN]

I like your style. I'd want to be your friend but you're a churchy. If there's one thing that shits me more than pigs it's churchies.

[98tls]

There's no 'might' about it. Coppers will do what they can to make a point, ask David Bain, Scott Watson, Aurhtur A, Thomas, me! Why stop there?jails are full of granny bashing kid fucking thieving cunts,the kicker is there all innocent,go figure.:Oops:

[JMemonic]

Any time in a public place

Ahh "a public place", now that as I understand can be private property if the public has access, thus as an example a supermarket car park or service station forecourt (or petrol station as it should be called).

Before you go out and think you can now tell them to take a hike in these kinds of locations because of this law think again, mind you as has been said if there is nothing to hide there is nothing to worry about.

[NDORFN]

Why stop there?jails are full of granny bashing kid fucking thieving cunts,the kicker is there all innocent,go figure.:Oops:

All gang related. I'll start respecting the police force when they start taking on the gangs.

[peasea]

Why stop there?jails are full of granny bashing kid fucking thieving cunts,the kicker is there all innocent,go figure.:Oops:

Yup, been binned for doin' Jack Shit myself. I feel for the wrongfully incarcerated, as well as the wrongfully incinerated; some of my best friends are Jews.

[NDORFN]

As much as you may think you have you really have no idea of getting "reemed",that aside methinks be as staunch as you like,fuck practice whilst watching the reflection in the mirror if need be but a penny to a pound my money would be on his reaction being nothing more than a here we go again kind of roll of the eyes,by no means dont let my opinion stop you perfecting the art of staunch but once again a penny to a pound life will sort the wager out.Good luck with it.

I don't want to be staunch. Think you misunderstood there buddy.

[peasea]

I like your style. I'd want to be your friend but you're a churchy. If there's one thing that shits me more than pigs it's churchies.

Aha, a closet Catholic are we? Right. Confession time; have you ever played with yourself?

[98tls]

All gang related. I'll start respecting the police force when they start taking on the gangs. I will respect you when you ride on down to the local police station and express your views.

[NDORFN]

Aha, a closet Catholic are we? Right. Confession time; have you ever played with yourself?

Almost every day. Can't say I've ever sang gospel though. What's up with that?

[peasea]

I will respect you when you ride on down to the local police station and express your views.
Actually, that's quite funny, coz I've expressed my views at many police stations, it always gets a response. It may not be the response you're/they're after but often there's humour to be had.

I'd really like to be arrested again for some minor worldy infraction just to have another go at the fuckwits that purport to be the law enforcers/peace-makers of our nation. They could do with a wake-up call.

[NDORFN]

I will respect you when you ride on down to the local police station and express your views.

I expressed my views almost every Sunday morning when the local cunstabulary came to my day job and tried coersing me into ratting on misbehaving gang-bangers at my night job bouncing for the local "kumera pit". I expressed them good.

[peasea]

Almost every day. Can't say I've ever sang gospel though. What's up with that?

I call it as I see it.
You show me yours....and I'll mock it to blazes.

[peasea]

I expressed my views almost every Sunday morning when the local cunstabulary came to my day job and tried coersing me into ratting on misbehaving gang-bangers at my night job bouncing for the local "kumera pit". I expressed them good.

Ok, I read that but I don't understand it.
You went to church, the cops came, you raped sombody at a disco, had a hangi and breast fed them. Is that right?

[NDORFN]

Ok, I read that but I don't understand it.
You went to church, the cops came, you raped sombody at a disco, had a hangi and breast fed them. Is that right?

Finally, someone who gets me.

[peasea]

Finally, someone who gets me.

Did you win Big Wednesday or what?

I like tropical fish.

[NDORFN]

Did you win Big Wednesday or what?

I like tropical fish.

I AM Big Wednesday. And don't be so discriminant... fresh water fish need lovin' too.

[98tls]

Actually, that's quite funny, coz I've expressed my views at many police stations, it always gets a response. It may not be the response you're/they're after but often there's humour to be had.

I'd really like to be arrested again for some minor worldy infraction just to have another go at the fuckwits that purport to be the law enforcers/peace-makers of our nation. They could do with a wake-up call. Been there to,looking back on more occasions than i care to remember.Maybe i got lucky i dunno but generally any adverse reaction was caused by a brief moment of victory as i saw it:argh:upside down getting your toes broken at the time seemed harsh but looking back probably less than harsh.Fwiw.

[98tls]

I AM Big Wednesday. And don't be so discriminant... fresh water fish need lovin' too. Did anyone actually win the thing tonight:Oops:last night

[NDORFN]

Did anyone actually win the thing tonight:Oops:last night

No idea. Couldn't afford a ticket, so didn't pay attention. They should change it to Big Thursday, so I can play.

[peasea]

Been there to,looking back on more occasions than i care to remember.Maybe i got lucky i dunno but generally any adverse reaction was caused by a brief moment of victory as i saw it:argh:upside down getting your toes broken at the time seemed harsh but looking back probably less than harsh.Fwiw.

My first adverse reaction to coppers was all about honesty, or the lack of it. Order at unruly parties was all good. Liars in blue rark me up big time, to the point of locating the perp's in an after-hours scenario. Push my buttons and I've got little control.

[NDORFN]

My first adverse reaction to coppers was all about honesty, or the lack of it. Order at unruly parties was all good. Liars in blue rark me up big time, to the point of locating the perp's in an after-hours scenario. Push my buttons and I've got little control.

My ONLY arrest was for 'Drinking in public', when a police orifice grabbed me whilst I was walking out of a bar to a seated area provided by the bar on the Strand in Tauranga. Got the works down at the sty, then let out about 2 hours later to walk back into town with the promise by the filthy prick that they wouldn't arrest me again that night for drinking in public. My only regret is that I used my diversion, which I should've kept for when they nick me for the P-manufactoring, Credit Union-robbing, granny raping, pedofile ring I'm currently operating. Dammit:angry2:

[peasea]

My ONLY arrest was for 'Drinking in public', when a police orifice grabbed me whilst I was walking out of a bar to a seated area provided by the bar on the Strand in Tauranga. Got the works down at the sty, then let out about 2 hours later to walk back into town with the promise by the filthy prick that they wouldn't arrest me again that night for drinking in public. My only regret is that I used my diversion, which I should've kept for when they nick me for the P-manufactoring, Credit Union-robbing, granny raping, pedofile ring I'm currently operating. Dammit:angry2:

So, how much P ya got, what age are your 'grandchildren' and what is your granny wearing?

[spudchucka]

My understanding was, that I had to provide my personal details to an officer at any time, but it seems this is not so.

Shows how bad all the free advice you've handed out on these boards really is.

[oldrider]

Read all that shit, hmmmm, :shifty: we reap what we sow. :confused:

:Police: are damned if they do and damned if they don't! :nono:

I think he did a runner :rolleyes: and what goes round comes round. :Pokey:

When trouble comes a calling, who's "he" going to call?....."Ghost busters"! :doh:

[scumdog]

I'd really like to be arrested again for some minor worldy infraction just to have another go at the fuckwits that purport to be the law enforcers/peace-makers of our nation. They could do with a wake-up call.

Goes both ways ya know - give us your phone number so the local honest blokes in blue can call you when they get bored and want some more light-hearted entertainment.....:whistle:

[Pixie]

I'll do it for ya.
Pog.

There ya go.

I got some cool pogs. Alf pogs! Remember Alf? He's back...in pog form.

You traded my soul for pogs?!

[Skyryder]

In the wake of this debacle (Press June 11, 2009) Police Association President Greg Conner is claiming that a law change might be required to curb the trend of private prosecutions against the Police. That sounds as ridiculous as a speedster calling for a law change against speeding. I would have thought some kind of comment on ‘better training of police officers’ might have been a more sensible comment.


Skyryder

[NDORFN]

In the wake of this debacle (Press June 11, 2009) Police Association President Greg Conner is claiming that a law change might be required to curb the trend of private prosecutions against the Police. That sounds as ridiculous as a speedster calling for a law change against speeding. I would have thought some kind of comment on ‘better training of police officers’ might have been a more sensible comment.


Skyryder

Police-state. No two ways about it.

[Max Preload]

In the wake of this debacle (Press June 11, 2009) Police Association President Greg Conner is claiming that a law change might be required to curb the trend of private prosecutions against the Police. That sounds as ridiculous as a speedster calling for a law change against speeding. I would have thought some kind of comment on ‘better training of police officers’ might have been a more sensible comment.

Do you see the flaw in your thinking now?

[Skyryder]

Police-state. No two ways about it.

I got the distinct impression from the article that O'Conner believes that the police should be 'above' the law. He even had the temerity to suggest that the "fear of private prosecutions against the police could make officers more tentative in carrying out out their duty, which would have a detrimental effect on the public." I would have thought that some caution when dealing with 'law abiding citizens would have the very opposite effect instead of the gung ho attitude that this female cop had.


Skyryder

[scumdog]

Police-state. No two ways about it.

Enjoy!:2thumbsup