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Lou Girardin
22nd March 2005, 15:28
A Middlemore hospital trauma specialist has called for a median barrier to be installed on SH 2 at Maramarua after the lastest fatal, a bike v truck.
He's obviously not a biker because he missed the irony of wanting cheesecutters installed to save our lives.
Personally I think they should drop the speed limit 30 km/h and have lollypop men restricting traffic to one direction only for 15 minutes at a time.
After a year of that, there'll be a lot of cheap holiday homes for sale in the Coromandel, a win/win situation. Especially seeing that I use the Miranda road.

Hitcher
22nd March 2005, 15:59
If a barrier goes up, it will be cheesecutter. This is now par for the course, given the installation of a plethora of cheesecutter barriers in these parts. So much for the Age of Reason...

Mongoose
22nd March 2005, 16:13
If a barrier goes up, it will be cheesecutter. This is now par for the course, given the installation of a plethora of cheesecutter barriers in these parts. So much for the Age of Reason...

Aint these cheese cutters just the incentive for M/cyclists to stay on the correct side of the road though? :yeah: :banana: :ar15:

sAsLEX
22nd March 2005, 16:18
Aint these cheese cutters just the incentive for M/cyclists to stay on the correct side of the road though? :yeah: :banana: :ar15:

or to hire a hilux and a gas axe and go along and chop them all down until someone relises its cheaper to install a proper barrier, than it is for intensive care of a motorcyclist???

Think about it, some plonk knocks you off your bike into the shit at the age of 20, you lose some arms and legs and whammo the state has to fund your life for how ever long you live, prob a million or two at least!!

Wolf
22nd March 2005, 16:39
If a barrier goes up, it will be cheesecutter. This is now par for the course, given the installation of a plethora of cheesecutter barriers in these parts. So much for the Age of Reason...
:confused: OK, what's a "cheese cutter barrier"? I've never heard the term before.

vifferman
22nd March 2005, 16:43
:confused: OK, what's a "cheese cutter barrier"? I've never heard the term before.
Wire rope median barrier about a half-metre high, with steel poles and wire ropes connecting them.. They're cheaper to install than other median barriers, but obviously not friendly to bikers' bodies impacting with them, where they work like one of those cheesecutters that has a thin wire for a blade. :eek:

Ixion
22nd March 2005, 16:45
Wire rope median barrier - works like one of those cheesecutters that has a thin wire for a blade.

Should really be called people cutters. Come off and hit one of those and it'll (literally) cut you in half clean as any knife.

Tried arguing with LTSA about them a while ago, basically message was "Don't care, get stuffed, motorcylists are scum and don't figure in our calculations anyway. And cheescutters are cheap." :angry2: :brick: :ar15:

XP@
22nd March 2005, 16:46
Has anyone seen any stats (collected by a respected body of number crunchers) with motorcyclist survival rate against those things?

vifferman
22nd March 2005, 16:48
Has anyone seen any stats (collected by a respected body of number crunchers) with motorcyclist survival rate against those things?
I'm sure someone could make some up for you.

87.4% of all stats are made up.

MSTRS
22nd March 2005, 16:52
I'm sure someone could make some up for you.

87.4% of all stats are made up.
And the other 12.6% have only a passing relationship with reality??

XP@
22nd March 2005, 17:03
http://www.techrescue.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=149


This is the barrier fitted to the Frankston Freeway. I (Brad) attended a job a while ago on this corner where a motorcyclist had collided with the barrier at somewhere between 180 and 200km/h. His bike was stopped immediately he kept going and hit the front of a van travelling the other direction.

This may concern some motorcycle riders. I have researched these barriers and am unable to find scientific problems with motorbikes. The manufactures state that reasonable speed collisions on angles up to 45 50 degrees the rider should not cross over the barrier. There are other problems of legs and the like hitting the wire or the posts. This is said to be flexible and a preferred result to hitting the truck coming the other way. I think it is like every thing I ride a bike and I suggest the best way is not to ride stupid and don’t come off.

Wolf
22nd March 2005, 17:03
Should really be called people cutters. Come off and hit one of those and it'll (literally) cut you in half clean as any knife.

Tried arguing with LTSA about them a while ago, basically message was "Don't care, get stuffed, motorcylists are scum and don't figure in our calculations anyway. And cheescutters are cheap." :angry2: :brick: :ar15:
And they don't open up cars like a can-opener? Sounds like what you describe - I don't consciously recall seeing any - would be devastating to anything that hits it at speed. And to think, here's us not allowed to string piano wire across the motorway while the LTSA can string it along the motorway. One law for us, another for them.

Motu
22nd March 2005, 17:07
Cheese cutter going up on SH1 between Longswamp and Huntly...the only bikes I've seen on that stretch are Harleys,so no worries eh?

XP@
22nd March 2005, 17:08
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/moto/wire-rope/02.html

http://www.bmf.co.uk/briefing/Motorcycles-and-Safetyfence.html

http://www.nmcu.org/publ/fema_cbp/

Ixion
22nd March 2005, 17:21
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/moto/wire-rope/02.html

http://www.bmf.co.uk/briefing/Motorcycles-and-Safetyfence.html

http://www.nmcu.org/publ/fema_cbp/

The third one is good

JohnBoy
22nd March 2005, 19:43
A Middlemore hospital trauma specialist has called for a median barrier to be installed on SH 2 at Maramarua after the lastest fatal, a bike v truck.
He's obviously not a biker because he missed the irony of wanting cheesecutters installed to save our lives.

i work for a civil construction firm and everyone i have spoken to have rubbished them as being pointless and eventually too expensive.

also according to the design manual when constructing them you have to allow for a 2 meter deflection zone, meaning that the barrier will deflect 2m into the other lane before holding a vehicle.
have a look at one the next time you pass one and see if feel comfortable even in a cage!!

Lou Girardin
23rd March 2005, 08:30
i work for a civil construction firm and everyone i have spoken to have rubbished them as being pointless and eventually too expensive.

also according to the design manual when constructing them you have to allow for a 2 meter deflection zone, meaning that the barrier will deflect 2m into the other lane before holding a vehicle.
have a look at one the next time you pass one and see if feel comfortable even in a cage!!

True, but it appears that the Pukerua bay one has prevented at least one head-on. I still loath them though.

scumdog
23rd March 2005, 09:40
Has anyone seen any stats (collected by a respected body of number crunchers) with motorcyclist survival rate against those things?

I'll let you know when I hear of a motorcyclist hitting one......

JohnBoy
23rd March 2005, 09:45
Has anyone seen any stats (collected by a respected body of number crunchers) with motorcyclist survival rate against those things?

probably not any... too hard for them to fudge the numbers to justify them!

XP@
23rd March 2005, 10:08
i work for a civil construction firm and everyone i have spoken to have rubbished them as being pointless and eventually too expensive.

also according to the design manual when constructing them you have to allow for a 2 meter deflection zone, meaning that the barrier will deflect 2m into the other lane before holding a vehicle.
have a look at one the next time you pass one and see if feel comfortable even in a cage!!

Interesting, there appears to be a lot of areas where the clear zone is a lot less than 2m. The clear zone on the side of the road is designed to enable the road user to attempt recovery of the vehicle. Therefore it could be argued the smaller the clear zone the greater the number of accidents. Therefore IF the barrier is closer to the road than the recommended distance it could actuallt cause more accidents than it prevents.

Dealing with nearside barriers, section 4.20 gives the minimum of about 2.5meters.
http://www.highways.gov.uk/aboutus/corpdocs/review_safety_fences_feb_02/05.htm

In NZ there is an interesting document here
http://www.transit.govt.nz/technical_information/content_files/Specification48_pdfFile.pdf

9 m is considered a minimum clear zone recovery area for high speed roads, where high speed is
defined as ≥ 70 km/h.

section 6.4 (i)

Flexible or semi-rigid barriers are usually suitable for relatively wide, flat
medians, provided the design deflection distance is less than one-half the
median width. Crashworthy transition sections must be installed to stiffen this
type of barrier locally if fixed objects are located within the design deflection
distance of the barrier. Narrow medians on heavily travelled roads usually
require a rigid barrier having little or no deflection when hit.

From what I have read, we should not be seeing these barriers without a fair clear zone.

We should also be seeing a MASSIVE ACC ad campaign to teach people how to stay on their own side of the road and go round corners. Every biker knows (or should) about delayed apexing... oooh can feel a rant coming on... better stop quick! (should also get some work done)

Sniper
23rd March 2005, 10:09
Sounds like yet another money saving sceem (sp?) by LTSA to try and save money while not saving lives.

God damn cheese cutters, I have seen them do some really nasty damage

Lou Girardin
23rd March 2005, 11:36
Even armco is a worry. I went to a m/cycle v barrier on the Dominion Rd fly-over. Several pieces of flesh were smeared over three or four uprights.
Not a good look.

RDJ
15th September 2006, 17:01
Cheese cutter going up on SH1 between Longswamp and Huntly...the only bikes I've seen on that stretch are Harleys,so no worries eh?

Guess we have to tolerate the intolerant.

sunhuntin
15th September 2006, 17:13
the downhill stretch just prior to turakina [on the wanganui side] has been hit, im guessing a car. the wire is still there, but about 10 of those posts have been snapped. they actually look a lot like those reflectors...the posts arent that strong at all. theres a string of cones there now. lol.

personally, i treat the wires as just another hazard. i know cars are dangerous, and wet roads, white paint and manhole covers. i ride those to keep myself safe, and dont push my limits...same with the cheese cutters...it looks like itd leave a lot of human debris, so i ride in a way thatll keep that from happening.
what i do hate is the lack of run off area where the wire is...no chance to try and cut down your speed. i also hate that it doesnt have any reflective bits on it...that makes it doubly dangerous.

The Pastor
15th September 2006, 17:37
It will take more than one death for anyone to change it though.

Swoop
15th September 2006, 17:53
too hard for them to fudge the numbers...
Yeah - right...

We are talking about public servants and bureaucrats here....
MASTERS of the fudge.

Hitcher
15th September 2006, 18:05
Turakina is hardly SH 2.

sunhuntin
15th September 2006, 18:12
no its not, but the barrier is the same as what would be used.

cowboyz
15th September 2006, 18:58
Aint these cheese cutters just the incentive for M/cyclists to stay on the correct side of the road though? :yeah: :banana: :ar15:

Half of them....

eliot-ness
15th September 2006, 18:59
The third one is good

Click on the third one, then click on the highlighted 2/10. This is exactly what I advocated a couple of months ago. Shrubbery. As stated, the first tests were done in 1966 New tests have shown the method to work well with deceleration equal to heavy braking at lower speeds and more than adequate to stop a human body, ie. a sliding biker, with little physical damage. Unlikely it will ever happen here though, the cost is too high. Seems like all we can do is slow down and leave the overtaking 'til the road is clear. Works for me

WelshWizard
23rd March 2008, 10:53
Should really be called people cutters. Come off and hit one of those and it'll (literally) cut you in half clean as any knife.

Tried arguing with LTSA about them a while ago, basically message was "Don't care, get stuffed, motorcylists are scum and don't figure in our calculations anyway. And cheescutters are cheap." :angry2: :brick: :ar15:

As this is from 2005 just shows they still have not changed their minds about bike, Ford Falcons, and lorries

Coyote
23rd March 2008, 11:17
Was there a call for them to change their minds? Can't possibly have been, otherwise they'd have done something surely.

(p/t)

yungatart
23rd March 2008, 11:22
As this is from 2005 just shows they still have not changed their minds about bike, Ford Falcons, and lorries

We surely can't wait another three years for some action on this road side menace!

WelshWizard
23rd March 2008, 22:16
Was there a call for them to change their minds? Can't possibly have been, otherwise they'd have done something surely.

(p/t)

Ixion had a good go back in 2005, as I he said then

"Don't care, get stuffed, motorcylists are scum and don't figure in our calculations anyway. And cheescutters are cheap"

So it has to be time to step up this campaign and get some thing moveing again, or we will be waiting for the next person to be killed by these things before any thing is done.:mad::angry2:

Fudmucker
12th June 2008, 07:07
Try another tack.

Back the biker/estate who suffered and take the traffic Engineer (who specified the damn thing for use) to court in their personal capacity for professional negligence and damages - or report him/her to the relevant engineering Council for the same professional negligence.

A bit of video evidence from around the world should reinforce the case... With good representation, you could have the person stripped of their right to practice as an engineer.

PrincessBandit
12th June 2008, 07:38
But back to the original post of this thread: something to be done at Maramarua. I've been travelling SH2 as a passanger and driver/rider for over 30 years and never come close to having an up close and personal ever along there. There already are speed restrictions at Mangatawhiri, Maramarua etc. but they get ignored. Basically it comes down to people paying the price of their impatience with others' lives. Perhaps some strategically placed judder bars (like in residential streets) might force traffic to slow in these areas. The thought of stuffing their suspension might put the brakes on speedsters rather than the risk of actually killing someone??? (Best limited speed zone in that area is Waitakaruru - can't speed through that corner onto the bridge!!)