Michelin PR2 - easy to spin up in the wet or past it?

[SPP]

I have PR2s on a little CBR 600RR with 15,000 km on them. They look just less than half worn (really hard wearing on a light bike!)

In the wet/rain these spin up and step out A LOT more than I thought they would especially considering the CBR is hardly a torque monster and I'm not really giving it heaps

e.g.
• 95-100k not accelerating and going uphill in 6th. Road was smooth perhaps a little tar bleed. Rear stepped out to 4 o'clock but no fish tailing.
• 60-70k, 3/4 acceleration (2nd or 3rd). Road was smooth but no lines or tar bleed. Fish tailing 4 O'clock to 4 O' clock a number of times. I really thought somebody was going to ram me from behind

Unintentional spin up a few times now. Is this normal for PR2 or are they just past it? Is the bike too light to get these to grip properly? Harden up mate its all part of the fun?

I’m considering changing to BT016 or Powers. I think want sport tyres again.

Note: The OEM BT015 that were on it last winter spun up maybe once or twice in the wet but only mildly and always stayed straight. Never once did they suddenly let go and step out and I’m riding the same roads.

[crash harry]

Strange, I've got PR2s on the R1, and they're solid as a rock in the wet. I've only lost traction once, and that was a little front wheel slide under brakes on a tar snake in pouring rain. I imagine I <i>could</i> break them free if I was really heavy-handed with the gas in corners, but never had them step out in a straight line.

What pressures are you running? Michelin seem to recommend lower pressure in the rear than some others - they recommend 2.5bar (~36psi) front and rear for the PR2 on the R1. If you've got the rear pumped up really hard it might be running a bit cold?

[cowboyz]

really surprisd SPP and concour with crash harry. I have run PR2 on the ZX9r and they are solid as in the wet or dry. really confidence inspiring and one of the best tyres I have ridden on. (currently running pirelli diablo front and pilot sport on rear cause I got them cheap) but the pilot road 2s are awesome tyres.
I wonder how you get 15000km out of them though. I struggle to 10 if I play nice with them. Definitely look at your pressures.

[Max Preload]

Strange, I've got PR2s... and they're solid as a rock in the wet.

Ditto. In the wet, my ZZR tended to wheelstand before it would spin on the PR2 rear.

[SPP]

thanks

yeah, they have a really good rep for being solid in the wet and super hard wearing which means something is up... not the hard wearing bit.

Pressures: 36/42 and 34/38... too high? front has never slipped. Maybe a combination of high pressure, lightish bike (155kg dry), and riding too passively to heat them up?

Wear: yep, 15,000km so far and they're nowhere near the wear bars. Thats too much right?

I'm definitely going to drop the pressures down to 36 (or lower) like crash harry and try that. cheers.

[Ocean1]

That's pretty good milage, still, my brother got more out of his PR2 rear on a ZZR1200...

I've run both PP2s and PR2s on the Buell, which is also fairly light, and I must admit the PR2s squirm more in a straight line. Mostly that's under engine braking but I've had the back step out more under power on the PRs than the PPs too.

They're actually the same compound on the sides, the PR2's just a tad harder in the middle. I'll be using both again, depending on what I'm planning. Bloody good rubber, especially in the wet, and quite predictable even at low temperatures.

Edit: I run 36/38.

[SPP]

hey thanks.

All of your bikes have much more torque, and they work for you!

I'm gonna drop the pressures some more and maybe try to sit back a little.

Cheers

[puddytat]

I ran 32 front,& rear....11000 on the R6. You happy with your suspension set up ?

[Kiwi Graham]

Mate, I have a set on my 14 (torque is its middle name), They are awesome tyres. They are the best all round tyre I've had for every day use wet or dry. Of course they will spin up given the right conditions but what you describe sounds like they may be past it, 15,000k is a very long time for a set of tyres to stay on a bike.

[MSTRS]

Only once had an issue with PR2s on the 750, and I thought it was my pillion shifting her bum in the corners. It was cold and damp at the time.
I run them at 33f/37r and changed them at 18,000kms. Front was triangulated and rear was slightly squared off. Still WOF standard tho. Just.

[cowboyz]

Only once had an issue with PR2s on the 750, and I thought it was my pillion shifting her bum in the corners. It was cold and damp at the time.
I run them at 33f/37r and changed them at 18,000kms. Front was triangulated and rear was slightly squared off. Still WOF standard tho. Just.

must ..........................learn .....................responsibility!

[Owl]

I'm a big fan of the PR2 as well, with 8000km clocked up so far on the rear. No real issues and it also hasn't squared off near the end of its life.:D

[slofox]

PR2's on the SVS. No problems thus far (7000k). But I run at lower pressures than you do - book says 32 front and 36 rear. I have had them up about 2psi each at times but can detect no noticeable difference so I go by the book.
Also a lighter bike and not demonically torquey...

[AllanB]

Great on my 900.

Just how close to the wear bars are your tyres? If its only a mm or so off then I say trash them for the winter, especially if you are giving it a bit of stick in the wet.

[CookMySock]

Only once had an issue with PR2s on the 750, and I thought it was my pillion shifting her bum in the corners.I'm getting that on my near-new PR2's. I just thought it was the bumpy suspension.

Steve

[banditrider]

7,000 odd kms on my first set and still plenty left. Thinking I'll get 11k which puts them on par with a set of Pirelli Stradas I had. Not bad for 280kg bike with plenty of ergs. Only time I've spun the rear with the PR2's is when playing the fool...

[Hidalgo]

I have the same problem with my PR2. this is my first winter on it they loose alot. At first i thought it has something to with my SAG settings.

[sharky]

hey thanks.

All of your bikes have much more torque, and they work for you!

I'm gonna drop the pressures some more and maybe try to sit back a little.

Cheers

It is a bit of a common mis-conception that you should drop your pressures back in the wet to allow them to heat up more. What also happens is the tyre deforms more, effectively squashing the grooves closer together so they don't disperse the water as well.
I'm running PR2's on the road bike. I reckon 34 front, 38 rear.

[SPP]

Suspension: i haven't changed any setting. It feels ok but i honestly wouldn't know.

Giving it stick it the wet: Not really, I shit myself too much.

Wear: I’ve attached pictures of the tyres which have 15,000km now. Tread depth looks ok to me. Only slight flattening on the rear and the front (right side) is slightly chiselled.

Pressures: Dropped them to 32/32 this morning but the jury is still out. It felt kinda funky

What now… I pumped them up to 34/38 (cold?) and will try again. Worst case scenario is that I’ve had 15k out of a set tyres. That’s a pretty good worst case I reckon.

Cheers all

[cowboyz]

holy shit. they look like a new set!

[cowboyz]

BTW. If you do decide to change them out. I will buy your old set off you

[howdamnhard]

I have PR2s on a little CBR 600RR with 15,000 km on them. They look just less than half worn (really hard wearing on a light bike!)

In the wet/rain these spin up and step out A LOT more than I thought they would especially considering the CBR is hardly a torque monster and I'm not really giving it heaps

e.g.
• 95-100k not accelerating and going uphill in 6th. Road was smooth perhaps a little tar bleed. Rear stepped out to 4 o'clock but no fish tailing.
• 60-70k, 3/4 acceleration (2nd or 3rd). Road was smooth but no lines or tar bleed. Fish tailing 4 O'clock to 4 O' clock a number of times. I really thought somebody was going to ram me from behind

Unintentional spin up a few times now. Is this normal for PR2 or are they just past it? Is the bike too light to get these to grip properly? Harden up mate its all part of the fun?

I’m considering changing to BT016 or Powers. I think want sport tyres again.

Note: The OEM BT015 that were on it last winter spun up maybe once or twice in the wet but only mildly and always stayed straight. Never once did they suddenly let go and step out and I’m riding the same roads.

I got PR2's fitted to my old ZZR600 because they are supposed to be good in the wet. I can spin mine up in the wet when accelerateing hard , get it to fish tail when going over lines and the back to lock up when braking hard. The Metzelers I had on the back were worse and I could lock it up in the dry. One important factor I think is my suspension is past its best and the front is very soft ( something I'm working on). It may pay to check your suspension settings. Start at the standard settings and only change one thing at a time,setting up the correct amount of sag is a good starting point. I'm no expert so it pays to get some help from a pro before meddling with settings and totally stuffing up everything.

[howdamnhard]

P.S. glad to hear they are so long lasting.:Punk:

[howdamnhard]

Suspension: i haven't changed any setting. It feels ok but i honestly wouldn't know.

Giving it stick it the wet: Not really, I shit myself too much.

Wear: I’ve attached pictures of the tyres which have 15,000km now. Tread depth looks ok to me. Only slight flattening on the rear and the front (right side) is slightly chiselled.

Pressures: Dropped them to 32/32 this morning but the jury is still out. It felt kinda funky

What now… I pumped them up to 34/38 (cold?) and will try again.

Ye dropping tyre pressures slightly should help to. Good luck on getting it sorted.

[AllanB]

Man - I'm looking forward to getting 15,000 out of mine now!

[MSTRS]

What now… I pumped them up to 34/38 (cold?) and will try again. Worst case scenario is that I’ve had 15k out of a set tyres. That’s a pretty good worst case I reckon.

Cheers all
Can I suggest you try 32/35.

holy shit. they look like a new set!

That they do. Almost as tho they've never been asked to do any 'real' work.
Maybe that's the problem?
Another thing...what's the manufacture date? There will be some numbers inside a little circle on one sidewall of each tyre. What are they?

[firefighter]

I have a stepping out issue with my pp.

I'm running a pp front and a pp2ct rear. Compared to the conti roads I was running these feel pretty loose in the wet.

The front steps out a lot, pretty much every ride in the wet ,and I don't feel overly confident on them, and yes I'm used to riding in all weather (only transport).

In the dry they are bloody good but gimme back my conti roads in the wet anyday!!!

[Gremlin]

Crikey, they look fantastic for 15,000km...

I'm with MSTRS, and the suspension settings... Hell, my CB900 only got 16,000km odd :gob:, and they had completely squared off (almost entirely commuting), nothing left in the middle...

It took a hell of a lot to make the tyre break free, usually stupid stuff like deliberately unloading it then jumping on the brakes :innocent:

I'd stay away from 016 in the wet, I suspect they completely let go when I was doing 68kph, no warning, splat, I'm sliding... gentle corner and all that.

[CookMySock]

I have a stepping out issue with my pp.

I'm running a pp front and a pp2ct rear. Compared to the conti roads I was running these feel pretty loose in the wet.

The front steps out a lot, pretty much every ride in the wet ,and I don't feel overly confident on them, and I ride in all weather, in the dry they are bloody good but gimme back my conti roads in the wet anyday!!!This is on your hornet 900? What tyre pressures?

Steve

[crazyhorse]

I've always been a huge fan of Pirrelli Diablo's, but on this bike they would get chewed up too quickly. However, having run battleaxe's on the GSXR (and when they let go, it wasn't nice), have now got PR2's and am impressed with both wet and dry riding - feel very confident on them. And we rode in torrential rain the other day, and I still managed a constant speed of around 90-100 km between Wairoa and Napier

[nallac]

I have a stepping out issue with my pp.

I'm running a pp front and a pp2ct rear. Compared to the conti roads I was running these feel pretty loose in the wet.

The front steps out a lot, pretty much every ride in the wet ,and I don't feel overly confident on them, and I ride in all weather, in the dry they are bloody good but gimme back my conti roads in the wet anyday!!!


Told ya the contis were the business on your hornet.............

F'n awesome tyres wet or dry...

I've got some PP's to go on next,hope they are'nt as bad as you describe.

[firefighter]

Told ya the contis were the business on your hornet.............

F'n awesome tyres wet or dry...

I've got some PP's to go on next,hope they are'nt as bad as you describe.

they're not terrible, but I do find myself backing off a lot more (only when wet) particularly when turning across intersections the front is really loose, and i'm not new to wet weather riding....the road attacks I had on my 650 hyo never slipped as much and I definately pushed them harder.....

[Morcs]

I had a rear on my TL. they outperformed a corsa 3. 'nuff said.

[one fast tl1ooo]

Wat 15000k and only half worn. DONT COMPLANE, I ONLY GET 4000-5000K
out of a rear on a tl1000. and it will wheelstand b4 it wheelspins in the wet:Punk:

[CTD]

15000k...nice. Im sick of replacing rubber every 3-4000km. I may be tempted to try some pr2's. Has anyone run them at the track?

[cowboyz]

yep. good track tyre too. theres nothing they cant do really. I am a huge fan.

[NZsarge]

Told ya the contis were the business on your hornet.............

F'n awesome tyres wet or dry...

I've got some PP's to go on next,hope they are'nt as bad as you describe.

Funny innit? I've stuck pretty much to Michelin and Continental since getting back on a road bike, never had any major moments on Michelin's but had some freakin' arse puckering ones on Conti SportAttack's. I've also run a couple of sets of road compound Conti RaceAttacks which were bloody awesome but poor value due to the lack of k's I got out of them but hey, they are a super grippy fast road come track day tyre so if you want to look at it that way they probably lasted pretty well.
The rest of the time i've run Michelin Pilot Power 2ct's, great tyre and reasonably ok value getting between 5-7000km out of rear tyres, gone to a PP 2ct front and Road 2 (2ct) rear, seems to be working ok so far, the Road 2 seems to grip well and is lasting very well.
I'll be sticking to Michelin's I reckon, would'nt entertain the idea of another set of Conti's unless I was feeling a bit wealthy and stuck on another set of RaceAttack's (not entirely sure about them in the wet though) but if I were contemplating the RaceAttacks i'd also be looking into a set of the new Michelin Power One's (road compound).

[Dooly]

Have Pilot Road 2s on my Speed Triple and Ducati. The Duc's rear has done 8000km on them and its hardly noticable. Same for the Speedy.
They grip awesome, and give a lot of confidence, I'll never use anything else at this stage.
Have Pilot Power 2s on the Daytona, stickier, wear a bit more, but seem good on the track, but can't tell the diff that much on the road between Power & Road, cept that I thought they were a bit slippery in the wet than the Road2s.

[SPP]

Firstly, thank you all for your feedback. It’s been be very helpful

Date of Manufacture: I couldn’t see anything obvious. There’s “3208” in an oval on the side wall?

Two suggestions I’m definitely going with:
• Suspension setup: If anyone knows a good place sing out. I think Cycletreads said they did stuff like that but I'm not particular about who so long as they know what they're doing.
• Pressures: I’ve lowered them slightly but it’s been dry for the last two days so I can’t say. They have always been good in the dry.

After all of this, I’ve mostly made up my mind to change anyway. If I’m getting 15k at the ½ -¾ (?) mark on PR2 then I’m sure I could use softer rubber and still get decent ks.

“Cowboyz”:
You posted earlier that you wanted them. If I change out, I’d leave them at the shop because I can’t carry them home. If you want them you’re welcome to just go and get them. They could probably have a good look at them to see if they're worth taking.

120/70 and 180/55. The rear has a puncture repair (plug) that Cycletreads fixed for be but I don’t think that it makes them unsafe or anything.

Cheers all

[cowboyz]

Firstly, thank you all for your feedback. It’s been be very helpful

Date of Manufacture: I couldn’t see anything obvious. There’s “3208” in an oval on the side wall?
this means the 32nd week of 2008 so its not a really old tyre.
Two suggestions I’m definitely going with:
• Suspension setup: If anyone knows a good place sing out. I think Cycletreads said they did stuff like that but I'm not particular about who so long as they know what they're doing.
• Pressures: I’ve lowered them slightly but it’s been dry for the last two days so I can’t say. They have always been good in the dry.

After all of this, I’ve mostly made up my mind to change anyway. If I’m getting 15k at the ½ -¾ (?) mark on PR2 then I’m sure I could use softer rubber and still get decent ks.

“Cowboyz”:
You posted earlier that you wanted them. If I change out, I’d leave them at the shop because I can’t carry them home. If you want them you’re welcome to just go and get them. They could probably have a good look at them to see if they're worth taking.

120/70 and 180/55. The rear has a puncture repair (plug) that Cycletreads fixed for be but I don’t think that it makes them unsafe or anything.

Cheers all

only problem with leaving them at the shop is I am 600k away. I will pm you and see if we can sort something out.

[discotex]

After all of this, I’ve mostly made up my mind to change anyway.


I highly recommend Metzeler M3's if you want loads of grip and still pretty good in the wet.

Seem to last well too. I'm about 4,000km of commuting and two trackdays (one dry, one wet) into a set and they look like new. I think I'll easily get 10-12,000km out of them. I suspect they'll disappear faster once the weather warms up and I get time for weekend fangs.

At the track I'd say they're roughly 85-95% of the grip of the BT-016 in the dry on the rear although that could be pressures and my increasing pace. They're just as good on the front but and get a lot better wet performance in the trade.

I'll probably try the PowerOne or BT-003RS for summer but M3's kick arse in the winter.

[Max Preload]

I can't believe anyone gets 15k out of any tyre. :gob:

[SPP]

I highly recommend Metzeler M3's if you want loads of grip and still pretty good in the wet.


M3 currently on your CBR 600 right? On the short list. Cheers dude.

[discotex]

M3 currently on your CBR 600 right? On the short list. Cheers dude.

Yep.. Run them about 34F/38R on the road for better life and 31F/31R on the track.

[mouldy]

Nothing sticks to shiny tar in the rain , pilot road 2's are fine ,only got one little slide from the front in the wet when I hit the white line chasing my mad maori mate up 22 , other than that no complaints .

[SPP]

New Tyres
Went into Drury Performance Centre and got PP 2CT (for a bloody good price). Mike down there knows quite a bit (first hand) and is good to talk stuff though with. Recommended.:2thumbsup

Drury had a couple of sets of everything! so I could line them all up side by side, consider this, consider that.... and then chose the ones that had the coolest tread pattern :whistle:

In the end Mike said flip a coin, they'll all work (16's, M3, Rosso, PP 2CT) and he's probably right.

Comboyz: They are holding the PR2s aside. I'll PM you their details. Comparing them to brand new PR2, they do look worn.

As a side note: the bike now feels light again and I couldn't be happier.

[mouldy]

Good to here you're happy with the new rubber , scrub 'em in and then go as hard as you want on them but watch out for surface changes in the wet , as I've said before nothing sticks to the shiny shit in the wet and I know 'cos /ive run them all .

[SPP]

Finish up feedback from me. About 800km on the PP2CT so far. I don't regret changing one little bit.

Back road ride: 200km, first ride out. Sunny, icy in the morning and warm in the arvo. Brisk but not dangerously quick.
Even at 36/42 psi they have a lot of grip. For a novice, confidence that the tyres will hold unless you're being a dick is worth spades full. Most of the tyre is getting used without trying to, 1-2mm of untouched tyre left.

Commute: 600km. I don't expect these will last anywhere near as long as the PR2.

Wet: One wet day, two wet nights. The difference is very noticable. These stick like poos in the wet. They feel like my old PR2 did in the dry.

Now, I'm not trying to put down PR2, they are great tyres. PP just suit me (a novice) with little bike (cbr 600rr) better. Warm up time is short, turn in is much quicker which feels right for a sports. Wet performance is awesome. BUT I'm going to pay for that with increased wear.

Kinda obvious really.

Thanks all for the advice and recommendations (M3, Rosso etc). I suspect I'll be trying some of them out sooner rather than later.

Cheers.

[jrandom]

Finish up feedback from me. About 800km on the PP2CT so far. I don't regret changing one little bit.

Glad to see someone following the same route I took.

I switched from PR2s to PP 2CTs on the GSX1400 last year, not going back. They just stick so much better, wet and dry.

People who are happy with PR2s and say they give 'sufficient' grip either haven't tried anything better on their bike, or ride like a nana. On my 14, the front would push and the rear would spin. Not exactly confidence inspiring stuff. (Then again, they were still worlds better than the BT020s the bike came with.)

I didn't really notice how bad it was until I got a set of proper sport tyres on and the bike started sticking to the road.

Also, the PR2s have a shallow profile and don't do much to help the bike turn. They turn sportbikes into tourers (and GSX1400s into supertankers). I'm a big fan of my 190/55 PP 2CT rears.

[Crazy Steve]

I have PR2s on a little CBR 600RR with 15,000 km on them. They look just less than half worn (really hard wearing on a light bike!)

In the wet/rain these spin up and step out A LOT more than I thought they would especially considering the CBR is hardly a torque monster and I'm not really giving it heaps

e.g.
• 95-100k not accelerating and going uphill in 6th. Road was smooth perhaps a little tar bleed. Rear stepped out to 4 o'clock but no fish tailing.
• 60-70k, 3/4 acceleration (2nd or 3rd). Road was smooth but no lines or tar bleed. Fish tailing 4 O'clock to 4 O' clock a number of times. I really thought somebody was going to ram me from behind

Unintentional spin up a few times now. Is this normal for PR2 or are they just past it? Is the bike too light to get these to grip properly? Harden up mate its all part of the fun?

I’m considering changing to BT016 or Powers. I think want sport tyres again.

Note: The OEM BT015 that were on it last winter spun up maybe once or twice in the wet but only mildly and always stayed straight. Never once did they suddenly let go and step out and I’m riding the same roads.

I would up grade to some Shinko's ! ! !

And buy a bike with some grunt ! !

Crazy Steve.

[jrandom]

I would up grade to some Shinko's ! ! !

You is crazy, Crazy Steve.

[Blackbird]

I switched from PR2s to PP 2CTs on the GSX1400 last year, not going back. They just stick so much better, wet and dry.

What sort of life are you getting from your 2CT's JR? I put an Avon Viper Sport (roughly the equivalent of a 2CT) on the front of the 'bird last year to help counteract front end "push" whilst keeping a Storm rear for longevity. Really impressed but front hoop life was limited to 7000 km which isn't bad for a pure sport tyre on something like the 'bird. Have just gone onto the newly-released Avon VP2 Sport front and rear. I'd imagine that front end life will be similar to its Viper predecessor but the rear might be rather less. Like your 2CT's, the VP2's are quite crowned which really helps with rapid line changes on a lardy old tub like the 'bird. It's going to be an interesting few months on the Loop :rolleyes:

[jrandom]

What sort of life are you getting from your 2CT's JR?

Heaps au. PPs last very well. Close to 10,000km from a set, I'd say.

It'd be half that if my riding was limited to Coro loops and trackdays, I expect, but I do a lot of two-up nana-ing that keeps the rubber in the right shape without really ripping it up.

[Blackbird]

Heaps au. PPs last very well. Close to 10,000km from a set, I'd say.

It'd be half that if my riding was limited to Coro loops and trackdays, I expect, but I do a lot of two-up nana-ing that keeps the rubber in the right shape without really ripping it up.

Cheers, that's pretty darned good. I don't commute at all these days and two-upping is rare too. Interesting times ahead.....

[MotoKuzzi]

I got at least 22,000km out of PR2's on the Guzzi. I say at least because they were on the bike when I bought it second hand and that's the mileage I got. Rear was squared off but front was still useable. I never had any wet weather problems with them, but have had stepping out and rear wheel spin up problems with the Metzler front / Bridgestone rear that I have on now. I put the mileage for the PR2 down to riding style and the fact that the need for heavy braking is rare on the Guzzi, throttle control does most of it.

[robboh]

Suspension: i haven't changed any setting. It feels ok but i honestly wouldn't know.

Giving it stick it the wet: Not really, I shit myself too much.

Wear: I’ve attached pictures of the tyres which have 15,000km now. Tread depth looks ok to me. Only slight flattening on the rear and the front (right side) is slightly chiselled.

Pressures: Dropped them to 32/32 this morning but the jury is still out. It felt kinda funky

What now… I pumped them up to 34/38 (cold?) and will try again. Worst case scenario is that I’ve had 15k out of a set tyres. That’s a pretty good worst case I reckon.

Cheers all
Crumbs.
Those dont even look like they've ever even been hot or thrashed :-)

[cowboyz]

i have them sitting in my shed thanks to spp.

Havent made it on the bike yet but they dont look bad at all. Be intereesting if I have the same experience

[SVboy]

Interesting thread. A mate who is a very good and aggressive rider fitted PPs to his k7 gsxr 600. He rode hard for 11000kms, including quite a few track sessions. The tyres were deceptive in that they wore very slowly, with plenty of tread left, but progessively lost their grip, perhaps through repeated heat cycles? he blames them in retrospect for two offs he could not explain, and has since changed to PP2s.
I get 5-6000kms MAX out of my Bridgies, and I am by no means a hard rider, but I trust them for all of that time.

[cowboyz]

I ride fairly aggressively and PR2 last about 7000k on the back of the 9. Got a pilot sport on there at the moment and its got 5000k on it and near buggered. never had a slide on any michellin tyre. Went to metezler for one change cause I got them cheap and I couldnt get the bike to come out of a corner striaght. (MEZ4)