Pita Sharples - just gotta love 'im, eh?

[PrincessBandit]

I see Pita Sharples would like open entry to university for Maori students. He quotes the small percentage of Maori graduates as a prompt for this.

What I don't understand is that there ARE Maori completing degrees. Surely they are the example that it can be done and should encourage others to follow the same path - but no! make them feel that the hard work they put in to get there in the first place was not necessary. All they needed to do was shag around at school, not bother with qualifications (like everyone else has to) and there is the open door.

Great. Self fulfilling prophecy of the reinforcement of underachieving being ok since it won't stop them from gaining entry to the higher academic echelons.

Wonder how far it will get?

[JimO]

when other people dont, if they fail at ncea shurly they will fail at uni. good old Pita Sharples

[PrincessBandit]

Haha, you must have been doing this thread while I was posting mine!

[Sidewinder]

when other people dont, if they fail at ncea shurly they will fail at uni. good old Pita Sharples

and we should have some seats in goverment just for white people so they can do whats best for us just like the maori seat, oh wait that would be raceist wouldnt it? uni, can you go to uni in jail?

[Mom]

I am surprised my ears did not actually drop off when I heard this today!

Pita Sharples wants universities to accept Maori students even if they have not achieved the basic literacy/numeracy requirements without hesitation. He also wants the universities to, if these students are not up to speed mind you, to bring them up to speed.

When hit up about the complete racisim of this request he denys it is racist.

Pita Sharples has achieved some good things for his people over the years, but he needs to find the friggen brake pedal on his demands for the now :shutup:

[duckonin]

NO! One must wonder why the powers of being are hell bent on dividing this countrys people..unless it is to point score..

[Wingnut]

Legal racial segregation?

[Molly]

If I was from a minority group I wouldn't want to get anything for that reason alone. You'd spend your life being seen as a 'token'. Anybody with any decency and dignity would want to compete on a level playing field and succeed based on their efforts and their efforts alone.

[R6_kid]

They already get special treatment at uni as it is. I don't see why or how they would deserve free university when there are a few hundred thousand non-maoris that are paying off their education, which they were entitled to only by making and continually attaining the required grades.

If they want 'free' uni then they can get a scholarship or join the defence forces like everyone else can/does.

[one fast tl1ooo]

they should earn it like the rest of us...:angry:

[sAsLEX]

Legal racial segregation?

Didn't some chap called Nelson have a bit to say on this topic?


Interesting to note that there is a dark ratio required for employers in good old SA....... hence why we have so many professional saffers over here.

[Molly]

Well said.

[steve_t]

They already get special treatment at uni as it is. I don't see why or how they would deserve free university when there are a few hundred thousand non-maoris that are paying off their education, which they were entitled to only by making and continually attaining the required grades.

If they want 'free' uni then they can get a scholarship or join the defence forces like everyone else can/does.

+1 I know of some Maori doctors who gained 'alternative entry' to medical school. They weren't smart enough to get into the course on their own grades but got a special exemption to be in the course. It's a nice thought but these doctors can end up being even more incompetent and dangerous to their patients than normal doctors are! If I want to know if a lump is cancer, I'd like to know that my doctor got their degree cos they know what they're talking about, not because they're they've been given special treatment!! :bash:

Pita Sharples said only 60-70% of Maori students leave school with level 1 NCEA. He doesn't say how many Maori students finish high school. High school is free in most cases, but that doesn't stop a lot of young Maori leaving school at 15 or 16 years of age. I don't see how making university free is going to encourage any of these kids to stay at school and go on to Uni. It's only going to benefit those who are already intending to go
Rant rant :shutup:

[Indiana_Jones]

I can't get over how they blame it on colonisation....

Any excuse, as long as you don't have to face the fact that your race has some issues it needs to sort out....

but hey, instead of sorting out these issues, it's easier to blame someone else with bullshit excuses!

-Indy

[u4ea]

Its just another way of "double dipping" . If I interpret the treay right it is fairness for all people isnt it?? :blink:
Legal segregation for sure..lamens terms.RACISM.:sick:
Why would anyone want to be accepted at a Uni and then years down the line get sued for mal practice as they didn"t aquire the medical degree through actually learning? They may well kill themselves off by their own stupidity!:bye:

[popa griffin]

I reckon we should biff the treaty. Fuck that shit.

Theres A: No full blood maoris left.
B: No point to it anymore.

[Rayray401]

hmm...did pita sharples mean free tuition fee?...or open open entry and pay their own fees?..cos if its just open entry..then i dont need the problem..if they fail in NCEA..then the uni doesnt have the obligation to pass them in their uni course...means more money for uni..better equipment from uni doesnt it? :rockon:

[Mom]

I reckon we should biff the treaty. Fuck that shit.

Theres A: No full blood maoris left.
B: No point to it anymore.

You are ignorant.

The Maori people were treated terribly by the colonial settlers, there is no argument there. The Treaty brought an end to the wars that were being fought. Peace reigned, because promises were made and agreed upon :yes:

Problem is the settlers were not true to their word in many ways. The Maori people were treated unfairly across a range of things. There has been a process to make good these wrongs. It has gone on and on, and a time limit has been placed on settling Treaty claims (thank goodness).

The issue of what is happening today with Maori families is nothing to do with the original treaty breaches, and the treaty as far as I am concerned has nothing to do with Pita Sharples saying Universities should take Maori on regardless.

It is swings and roundabouts really. For things to be equal we have to go through a cycle. If I was better at these computer things I sould show you what I mean, but picture this if you will.

Really unfair to one party is one side of the the scale, really unfair to the other party is the other side of the scale. Things will bounce back and fro until the scale settles about even. We are in an unfair to one party cycle, it will settle. Sooner, rather than later is my wish :yes:

[oldguy]

F**K yeah,:yes::yes::yes: should get free everything,
Anything to do with Pita Sharples/Maoris, will always windup all the know all experts on KB and bring out all the racist who say they are not

[Naki Rat]

Peta's half brained idea would really only make a difference to recent school leavers as anybody, brown, white or chatreuse can enroll at university after they turn 20. They then just have to prove they've got the brains by sitting and passing entry level exams.

Been there, done that :yes:

[Elysium]

A political party based on race is rascist.

[Argyle]

Mäori, white, asian, negro or arab. All of us is equal, no one should have more rights then the other.
Just fucking stupid from the beginning to let Mäories have more rights then any other of the New Zealand population.

Can´t understand how Mäories are treated different, those bastards would still be fighting with sticks and living in tree cottages if the English did not decide to explore the islands.

[jaymzw]

Peta's half brained idea

HEY MATE!!!!

Lets get this sorted its Pita

Geez talk about being racially insensitive :innocent:

[Elysium]

Can´t understand how Mäories are treated different, those bastards would still be fighting with sticks and living in tree cottages if the English did not decide to explore the islands.

Not true. The Americans could have got here first and then there would hardly be any maories because they would almost kill them to extinction like the native American indians. Or maybe the Chinese(if they're communist back then) get here and the maori population ends up enslaved in shoe factories.

Anyway if the English didn't come, then someone else would.

[popa griffin]

You are ignorant.

The Maori people were treated terribly by the colonial settlers, there is no argument there. The Treaty brought an end to the wars that were being fought. Peace reigned, because promises were made and agreed upon :yes:


Exactly. Any need for the treaty now?

Fuck no. What happend happend. Its well in the past.

I heard several maoris saying, sure maoris back in the day were canibals, but that was ages ago, we have changed now. Let it go.

Now if only they could take a leaf from there own book.

Everything to do with maoris getting free hand outs is cause of the rights of the treaty. The treaty should have died along with the people who signed it. Or soon after they died.


Bringing it back and back and back is just stupid. Especially when your not full fucking blooded.

[pete376403]

Sounds like the "affirmative action" that exists in the states.

Re medical school, I believe Paul Holmes wife (at the time) Hine Elder, got into med school on account of her "maoriness"

And another thing I heard tonight in the same vein - the "three strikes" debate about prison sentences. Some academic name of Solomon claims "my people" (love how they claim to speak for all maori) will oppose this because it will unequally affect them. Shit mate, if they don't do the crime... Or is he saying that maori are somehow genetically disposed to fail and thus need to turn to crime to get by?

[oldguy]

I reckon we should biff the treaty. Fuck that shit.

Theres A: No full blood maoris left.
B: No point to it anymore.

Funny you say that, because the colour of my skin dictates how others judge me.

If ever someone describes or points me out is. That's him the ........... fella

[pete376403]

Not true. The Americans could have got here first and then there would hardly be any maories because they would almost kill them to extinction like the native American indians. Or maybe the Chinese...(snip)

Chinese DID get here first - maori DNA has been traced back to Taiwan

[Bladeslapper109]

Pita sharples is an absolute idiot... And he is the face of the maori people

[MisterD]

Anyway if the English didn't come, then someone else would.

Just like one of those civilisation type computer games - if you're still at the "hitting each other with rocks and the winner eats the loser" stage when blokes with guns turn up - you're fucked.

...and as far as Pita's opinion is concerned, well he's obviously reasoned that if all the last 30 years of education policy has achieved is the devaluation of the graduate degree, why not go the whole bloody hog and give 'em away for turning up (if they don't do that already for some subjects...)

[Manxman]

1) there is so much that is wrong about this, that I cannot even think where to start.

2) I used to think that Pita Sharples was a pragmatic, realistic type of guy....emphasis on used to.

[jaymzw]

Funny you say that, because the colour of my skin dictates how others judge me.

If ever someone describes or points me out is. That's him the ........... fella

So because people describe you as the "maori fella" you or your children should be able to gain free entry into university?

If you cant pass level 1 NCEA you must have a serious mental problem or be seriously under motivated. I'd say the last one is the problem with the majority of Maori in the NZ school system. So what is the point of providing them with even less insentive to work hard at school? That is what Mr Sharples is proposing!

I'd hate to be John Key when journalists ask his opinion on the views of the Maori party.... He has to be diplomatic and PC. Look at the results of this poll for goodness sake.

[u4ea]

Funny you say that, because the colour of my skin dictates how others judge me.

If ever someone describes or points me out is. That's him the ........... fella

Sadly it goes both ways..

Like its my fault the English got here and never mind my pre maori- treaty ancestors who came here.

I am thrown in a labeled box too - Im white therefore I had something to do with signing of the the treaty??

..never mind my part maori great nephews and great neices have the same Germanic and Scottish blood in them as I do .. never mind I have some terrific absolutly terrific maori freinds.

Comes down to respect of each others cultures not just looking at everything from one angle all the time..

[EJK]

Seems they are trying to take a shot at Student Allowance.

[Rayray401]

Seems they are trying to take a shot at Student Allowance.

the dole not enough? :doh:

[Manxman]

So what is the point of providing them with even less insentive to work hard at school? That is what Mr Sharples is proposing!

That's one of the reasons. Only another 35 to go.

If I taught kids in this demographic, I'd be slapping by forehead in complete and utter disbelief right about now, thinking: great, now those kids who aren't arsed to do much work, are now going to be even more inattentive and disruptive (impacting those who actually do have to work hard to gain uni entry qualifications).

Un-fecking-believable.

He must have been smoking some real good sh*t to dream that one up.

[oldguy]

So because people describe you as the "maori fella" you or your children should be able to gain free entry into university?


I don't recall saying anything of the sort,

tell me out of all those who go to uni, how many make it any better in life than those that just leave school and go to work, while those at uni spend years studying wanting handouts from the government help pay there student loans, then pissing of over sea's.
while the poorly ol school dropout working in his/her crap job since he or she left school has been contributing to this country so they can be treated like second class because they don't have the education.

Life skills

[Mom]

Funny you say that, because the colour of my skin dictates how others judge me.

They are the poorer for making that judgement oldguy. Ignorance is not just confined to the poorly educated you know, there are a mountain of well educated wankers out there too :done:

[Naki Rat]

I don't recall saying anything of the sort,

tell me out of all those who go to uni, how many make it any better in life than those that just leave school and go to work, while those at uni spend years studying wanting handouts from the government help pay there student loans, then pissing of over sea's.
while the poorly ol school dropout working in his/her crap job since he or she left school has been contributing to this country so they can be treated like second class because they don't have the education.

Life skills

You need more than just "poorly ol' school dropouts" to make this place succeed. They's just the drones.

I take it you don't use the products of roading designers, aircraft engineers, horticulturalists, chemical engineers, civil engineers, electronics designers, food technicians or vehicle designers, or the services of doctors, vets, lawyers, meteorologists, economists or traffic design engineers?

You would be pretty cold, sick, uncomfortable, hungry and broke without a few intellectuals around :doh:

[mynameis]

Typical KB thread full of shit talkers.

Half of you don't even know what Dr Pita Sharples was talking about.

Where did "Free Education For Maori" come from ????

[oldguy]

Typical KB thread full of shit talkers.

Half of you don't even know what Dr Pita Sharples was talking about.

Where did "Free Education For Maori" come from ????

Haha i like you,:niceone: I got so into winding everyone up i for got what the thread was about.
Wish my fishing got as many bites as my post in this thread hehe.

[Rayray401]

ok just read the article..pita said open entry...not free education =.=..but i dont think it would make a difference...because even if you get in..dont you need to pass to get into stage 2 anyway?

[mynameis]

Haha i like you,:niceone: I got so into winding everyone up i for got what the thread was about.
Wish my fishing got as many bites as my post in this thread hehe.

Ha I actually wasn't referring to your post, but others.

[mynameis]

ok just read the article..pita said open entry...not free education =.=..but i dont think it would make a difference...because even if you get in..dont you need to pass to get into stage 2 anyway?

+1 At least one person has got it right, besides the ones who jump the wagon and bash Maori at any given opportunity.

[Finn]

Dr "P" Sharples should lay off the drugs and remember his place in society.

[oldguy]

You need more than just "poorly ol' school dropouts" to make this place succeed. They's just the drones.

I take it you don't use the products of roading designers, aircraft engineers, horticulturalists, chemical engineers, civil engineers, electronics designers, food technicians or vehicle designers, or the services of doctors, vets, lawyers, meteorologists, economists or traffic design engineers?

You would be pretty cold, sick, uncomfortable, hungry and broke without a few intellectuals around :doh:

if not for the drones who the F**K is going to do all that work these so called high archivers think up.
anyway most those you speak of are Asian.

[mynameis]

To be honest it's not that big a deal as people are making it. Most Universities will allow "matured" students with some level of work experience and education a shot at doing Degrees.

They allow "provisional" entrance, prove yourself in the first year and you get to do 2nd 3rd ect..ect..

If they are allowed in it's another way Universities will be making money as majority will do 1st year fail and drop out donating money to Unis.

There's a difference in entering Uni and graduating !! Which is HARDWORK.

Allowing Marios to enter into Uni without restrictions ISN"T going to close the gap he's talking about.

[RantyDave]

Not to mention what it does to the already tattered reputation of our universities - and hence the value of a degree from one.

(saving up to send his daughter to Harvard)

Dave

[Squiggles]

He'd probably support universities lowering their pass standards for Maori students, after the ones who didnt earn their spot start failing

[sAsLEX]

I don't recall saying anything of the sort,

tell me out of all those who go to uni, how many make it any better in life than those that just leave school and go to work, while those at uni spend years studying wanting handouts from the government help pay there student loans, then pissing of over sea's.
while the poorly ol school dropout working in his/her crap job since he or she left school has been contributing to this country so they can be treated like second class because they don't have the education.

Life skills

I am on a much better salary now after a few years at uni than if I was without my BE and had been working the better part of half a century.

Handout? What's one of those? Does my tax pay them? I mean I come from a middle class white family, never had a handout in my life!

I have been overseas, a few times, fantastic when work pays for it!

Working and contributing in their crap job...... hmmm we don't need engineers/doctors/lawyers et al (no idea what those with BAs do....) as a country do we?

Life Skills huh?

[Delerium]

What makes people angry about it is, that If it goes ahead, if your not maori, you have to bust your ass to get the grades to be accepted to uni, if you are maori, you dont. That smacks of racist.

It is unconcitional accepteance, nothing was mentioned about fees so lets clear that up right now. Also, if the course is becoming full, and the uni HAS to accept the maori student, what about the white guy that busted his ass and is then refused.

That is the issue.

[oldguy]

I am on a much better salary now after a few years at uni than if I was without my BE and had been working the better part of half a century.

Handout? What's one of those? Does my tax pay them? I mean I come from a middle class white family, never had a handout in my life!

I have been overseas, a few times, fantastic when work pays for it!

Working and contributing in their crap job...... hmmm we don't need engineers/doctors/lawyers et al (no idea what those with BAs do....) as a country do we?

Life Skills huh?

What is a middle class white family?
I didn't say we don't need them, but you can't tell me that everyone that goes to uni becomes a Doctor/Lawyer or what ever, their would be a fare percentage that don't. and where did this handout come from he is asking, will he get it, I doubt it, but hey he's giving it ago.
How by the political process, he asked.

Life Skills, isn't it all about working, having a job, wanting your children to have a better life, and take those opportunity that are available to them
my youngest I hope will go to Uni, she puts in the hard yards at school, she no rocket scientists, but she knuckles down gets on with her work, didn't get that work ethic from me :doh:

Im so over this thread. it just becomes a he said she said everyone trying for the upper hand.:done:

[tri boy]

Don't they already have their own free uni.
Located at Hopuhopu just north of Ngawhawahia?
Built for Maori via Tainui to improve their peoples education.
Last I heard it had become "residence" for Tainui top family members.
I could be wrong, but we also helped to fund that uni.

Fuck em. The gravy train is derailed, and hopefully John Key will rip up the tracks.

[Kiwi Graham]

What a fukin joke!
It de-values the efforts others have made to reach the grade.
Would create a second class system within the uni.
Would be fukin racist!!

Next it will be give me a better standard of living cos I've got a crack in my arse ffs!

I dont care what colour, race or creed you are;
You put in the work to achieve your success, you dont stick out your hand with a sense of entitlement :mad:

[Naki Rat]

if not for the drones who the F**K is going to do all that work these so called high archivers think up.
anyway most those you speak of are Asian.

My mistake. Didn't originally notice you were from South Auckland :slap: [Ducks for cover]

[Deano]

Funny you say that, because the colour of my skin dictates how others judge me.

If ever someone describes or points me out is. That's him the ........... fella

That's a descriptor, not a judgement dude. You are perhaps being sensitive.

[Mully]

I had always thought good things about Pita Sharples - I honestly think something's gone wrong in his head lately with some of the stuff he's coming out with.

I went back to Uni as a "Mature" Student (despite my posting here, I was considered mature). I had to do an entry exam and an entry interview to ascertain that I really wanted to be doing it.

I like the policy of over 20s being able to do that. Had I gone straight to Uni from High School, I would have hated it and would have quit soon after. I had the opportunity to start working, and decide that I wanted to go back and study. Anyone can do the same thing, AFAIK.

Let's face it, not everyone is cut out for academia - I certainly had to go away and mature a bit before I went back.

[MSTRS]

I find this 'suggestion' of Sharples quite distasteful. Sure, there's been no talk (yet) of providing it for free, so the Unis will financially benefit from extra student fees, which in this case will definitely come from taxpayer funded student loans. Loans which will never be paid back because the recipients will not pass the earning threshold. Simply a case of more snouts in the trough. If Sharples wants to see 'his people' with degrees, wouldn't he have been better directing them to http://www.nd-center.com/fakeuniversity-degrees.html

[davereid]

Sharples et alia don't seem to have noticed that giving people priviledge on the basis of race inherently requires the beneficiaries of that priviledge to be marked as different.

Its a bit like wearing a badge that says "I'm part of a special group".

So we see people wearing badges, and over time we develop of view of them and their behaviour.

We see the RSA members and we recognise the badge and it meaning. The same with badges for Rotary or Hells Angels.

The important thing is, that people NOT in the group, soon develop an idea as to the character of those in it by observation of group behavior.

Maoridom have voluntarily adopted a badge.

IMHO normal New Zealanders, rightly or wrongly have come to associate that badge with a series of negative traits.

This request from Mr. Sharples won't reverse that trend. It reinforces it.

[Pixie]

PITA is one of those geek acronyms,isn't it?

[MattRSK]

To be honest it's not that big a deal as people are making it. Most Universities will allow "matured" students with some level of work experience and education a shot at doing Degrees.

They allow "provisional" entrance, prove yourself in the first year and you get to do 2nd 3rd ect..ect..

If they are allowed in it's another way Universities will be making money as majority will do 1st year fail and drop out donating money to Unis.

There's a difference in entering Uni and graduating !! Which is HARDWORK.

Allowing Marios to enter into Uni without restrictions ISN"T going to close the gap he's talking about.


Thats me! .

[p.dath]

My other issue, as an employer, is if the requirements for Maori are made so much easier than for every one else, then if I have two people present for a job with the same degree, I'll probably question the value of the degree from a Maori person because I know the standard they had to meet was so much less.
Of course, I would never voice that to the applicant, as I could be sued.


I'd prefer all qualifications where of equal value and merit, regardless of the blood line you were born into many many generations ago.

[marty]

My other issue, as an employer, is if the requirements for Maori are made so much easier than for every one else, then if I have two people present for a job with the same degree, I'll probably question the value of the degree from a Maori person because I know the standard they had to meet was so much less.
Of course, I would never voice that to the applicant, as I could be sued.


I'd prefer all qualifications where of equal value and merit, regardless of the blood line you were born into many many generations ago.

:devil2: advocate here. surely if 2 people turn up for a job, both with an appropriate degree with the same mark, the standard that they have met is the same? I don't think Pita is suggesting the qualification is dumbed down, just the entry requirement

[MSTRS]

I don't think Pita is suggesting the qualification is dumbed down, just the entry requirement

Watch this space...

[marty]

the (mostly) failed Wananga in Hamilton is a classic example of the issues attached to open entry.

1. quality of teachers - where do they get increased numbers of suitable teachers/lecturers from?

2. ability to research/study. this comes from actual reading, recording and sorting practice. not from trying to figure out where the cheapest smokes for the playground come from.

[gwigs]

What a f***kin tosser Pita Sharples is ,where did he get his doctorate?he must have studied hard to get to uni to achieve that goal...if he can do it why not other Maoris? ..he should be saying look at me,look at what Ive achieved through hard work......Im sick of the hard done by Maori bullshit.:angry2:

[p.dath]

:devil2: advocate here. surely if 2 people turn up for a job, both with an appropriate degree with the same mark, the standard that they have met is the same? I don't think Pita is suggesting the qualification is dumbed down, just the entry requirement

University degrees don't have a mark (unless you achieved honours). There is no way to tell how much someone "passed". You either have the degree or don't.

[PrincessBandit]

Interesting to read the article on stuff's homepage where Mr Sharples is pushing his agenda.

[Deano]

University degrees don't have a mark (unless you achieved honours). There is no way to tell how much someone "passed". You either have the degree or don't.

Each paper has a grade though, with final results given to the student at the end of the year. This could be shown to prospective employers to distinguish between an A or B average and a C.

[p.dath]

Each paper has a grade though, with final results given to the student at the end of the year. This could be shown to prospective employers to distinguish between an A or B average and a C.

When I look at 100 CV's, I wont be looking at grades. It takes too long. Maybe when I have a short list. I want to look at a two page summary about the person. Anything longer and I'll probably put their application in the two hard basket.

[EJK]

Wow this got to be the most clear poll result ever on KB history.

Finally we all (most) agree on something.

[duckonin]

John Keys he is part of the problem !!! he backs Pita and the party all the way to the bank ...

[balans]

When I look at 100 CV's, I wont be looking at grades. It takes too long. Maybe when I have a short list. I want to look at a two page summary about the person. Anything longer and I'll probably put their application in the two hard basket.

Many employers however do request that an academic transcript be submitted along with CV and cover letter. It doesn't take long to look at the GPA if that is a criteria the employer is interested in. I suspect this sort of screening is usually done by an HR admin assistant well before the CV makes it's way to a managers desk.

[mynameis]

Grades are important period.

It's more important when you're applying for entry level jobs for fresh graduates.

As said before it's not hard to obtain a GPA which clearly sets them apart.

[portokiwi]

Next they will be asking for the land, sea and the air.......
This is wrong just wrong:angry:

[marty]

University degrees don't have a mark (unless you achieved honours). There is no way to tell how much someone "passed". You either have the degree or don't.


So, they do have a mark - you either got a degree, or got one with hons.

So maori boy turns up with a BA Hons, but got in because of his skin colour. White boy got a BA, but got in cause his parents were rich and told him they would cut him out of the will unless he went to university.

You can guess the path one of them took to get there - which one would you choose?

[peasea]

Wow this got to be the most clear poll result ever on KB history.

Finally we all (most) agree on something.

Next we'll all be hugging each other. Ick.:whocares:

[rachprice]

I think they should not get automatic entry, I think basic numeracy and literacy in the Maori population will decline heavily


+1 I know of some Maori doctors who gained 'alternative entry' to medical school. They weren't smart enough to get into the course on their own grades but got a special exemption to be in the course. It's a nice thought but these doctors can end up being even more incompetent and dangerous to their patients than normal doctors are! If I want to know if a lump is cancer, I'd like to know that my doctor got their degree cos they know what they're talking about, not because they're they've been given special treatment!! :bash:

Pita Sharples said only 60-70% of Maori students leave school with level 1 NCEA. He doesn't say how many Maori students finish high school. High school is free in most cases, but that doesn't stop a lot of young Maori leaving school at 15 or 16 years of age. I don't see how making university free is going to encourage any of these kids to stay at school and go on to Uni. It's only going to benefit those who are already intending to go
Rant rant :shutup:


Its just another way of "double dipping" . If I interpret the treay right it is fairness for all people isnt it?? :blink:
Legal segregation for sure..lamens terms.RACISM.:sick:
Why would anyone want to be accepted at a Uni and then years down the line get sued for mal practice as they didn"t aquire the medical degree through actually learning? They may well kill themselves off by their own stupidity!:bye:

As for this, while they may get entry into 2nd year, ALL medical students sit the same 5th year test determining whether they are fit to practice, no matter what race they are. There is no way in hell medical schools are going to be letting people graduate that are a danger to society.

[Mully]

What's that screeching sound?? Oh, it's a Pita Sharples doing a U-turn:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10579309


Maori Affairs and Associate Education Minister Pita Sharples says he wants Maori to have free access to universities but only if they pass a course showing they have reached required standards.

In a speech yesterday Dr Sharples, who is Maori Party co-leader, said Maori should be able to go to university without any qualifications.

This afternoon Dr Sharples clarified that he did not expect unqualified Maori to be immediately accepted into courses.

[HenryDorsetCase]

what is his doctorate in? maaaari studies?

that'd be like me getting a doctorate in whiskey, blow and hookers.....



wait, I think I might have one already. Honorary of course.

[PrincessBandit]

"The problem is they don't achieve at school. Solution fix the schooling". Talk about the song-that-never-ends. When I think of all the screwing around that's been done with the education system over the years I don't think there will ever be a solution which will satisfy everyone. I'm still a firm believer in attitude, attitude and more attitude (of the good positive kind). When I look at the poor attitude of many students - of all races - it's no wonder they struggle academically. Many resent having to even be at school, let alone any form of expectation that teachers might have of them or rules they are supposed to conform to. (Just check out the lax uniform attire, loaded down with jewellery, makeup and hair gel, visible tattoos blah blah blah, to get a glimpse of what I'm talking about). Then there are students from all backgrounds and cultures who do take pride in what they're trying to achieve at school. Which all comes down to personal application. This has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with an individual's determination to achieve in the big pond of life along with everyone else; no bitching and moaning about "this is unfair, or that's unfair...."

[Mully]

what is his doctorate in? maaaari studies?


Anthropology and Linguistics, I believe

[Pussy]

"The problem is they don't achieve at school. Solution fix the schooling". Talk about the song-that-never-ends. When I think of all the screwing around that's been done with the education system over the years I don't think there will ever be a solution which will satisfy everyone. I'm still a firm believer in attitude, attitude and more attitude (of the good positive kind). When I look at the poor attitude of many students - of all races - it's no wonder they struggle academically. Many resent having to even be at school, let alone any form of expectation that teachers might have of them or rules they are supposed to conform to. (Just check out the lax uniform attire, loaded down with jewellery, makeup and hair gel, visible tattoos blah blah blah, to get a glimpse of what I'm talking about). Then there are students from all backgrounds and cultures who do take pride in what they're trying to achieve at school. Which all comes down to personal application. This has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with an individual's determination to achieve in the big pond of life along with everyone else; no bitching and moaning about "this is unfair, or that's unfair...."
My sentiments exactly!
Race has bugger all to do with it... victim mentallity has

[mynameis]

It's a lot easier to blame everything around you; the government, the universities, the school system, the budget, white colonial people who came here 300 years ago, the iwi, the society, the media and the whole world but yourself.

Why? Because everyone's against them and stopping them to make progress like the rest of us.

"If given the opportunity" ? Are Maori kids held up with shot guns on their heads when they attend school? Are they forced to fail and not work hard?

There are talks about fixing the school system? Our school standards/education system is good compared to a lot of countries.

Change needs to happen within much smaller units of society like family and not put the blame of their failure on everything around them.

Over to you Roger.

[oldguy]

My mistake. Didn't originally notice you were from South Auckland :slap: [Ducks for cover]
now thats stereotyping , because he/she lives in a certain area. haha :rofl::rofl: all good :niceone:

[oldguy]

That's a descriptor, not a judgement dude. You are perhaps being sensitive.

never looked at it that way, All good :yes:

[PrincessBandit]

Next we'll all be hugging each other. Ick.:whocares:

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::love:
Aahhh, feel the lurve! hahaha

open to all colours, races, genders, iq's, type of bike....

[Trudes]

I wonder if I can get myself adopted into a hapu and become Maori so I can get into uni??
http://www.3news.co.nz/Video/National/tabid/309/articleID/109140/cat/64/Default.aspx#video

[peasea]

I wonder if I can get myself adopted into a hapu and become Maori so I can get into uni??
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2513178/Warning-about-fake-visa-scam

I would suggest you're way too smart for that.
Oops.

[Trudes]

I would suggest you're way too smart for that.
Oops.

Well, true really.... I got into Uni because of my academic merits, not because of my ethnicity.

[peasea]

Well, true really.... I got into Uni because my academic merits, not because of my ethnicity.

Which is the way it should be. My eldest worked hard and could go to uni but has chosen to work. My youngest is still working hard and looks set to go to uni next year. That's how it's done, not a freakin' handout. It makes my blood boil, all this damnable Maori racism. (Which is what it is....)

[oldguy]

They are the poorer for making that judgement oldguy. Ignorance is not just confined to the poorly educated you know, there are a mountain of well educated wankers out there too :done:

Hi mom, its all good, I don't take anything to heart, still trying to get My PC sorted, between emailing Microsoft help desk and trying everything they suggest to do and still no luck.:angry:

[doc]

My sentiments exactly!
Race has bugger all to do with it... victim mentallity has

I was told recently that Mental Health researchers had reason to suspect. (Faark knows where they get their info) and have identified that some maori have a gene that limits their ability to evolve.

I haven't posted this as a racist type comment, but wonder... . You have got to move on sometimes. To get advancement. Aye.

This is my feelings after talking to a Balianese guide in the Denpassar museum when we asked him about the Dutch attrocities against them.
They have moved on.

:bye:

[peasea]

I was told recently that Mental Health researchers had reason to suspect. (Faark knows where they get their info) and have identified that some maori have a gene that limits their ability to evolve.

I haven't posted this as a racist type comment, but wonder... . You have got to move on sometimes. To get advancement. Aye.

This is my feelings after talking to a Balianese guide in the Denpassar museum when we asked him about the Dutch attrocities against them.
They have moved on.

:bye:

Some Maori have more of those genes than others, I'd wager. Seriously; it's only been about 150 years from grass skirts to KFC. That's a hell of a culture shock for any race. Check the Abbo's plight........

[JimO]

that guy who is charging the islanders $500 for a maori passport has the right idea

[balans]

I was told recently that Mental Health researchers had reason to suspect. (Faark knows where they get their info) and have identified that some maori have a gene that limits their ability to evolve.

I haven't posted this as a racist type comment, but wonder... . You have got to move on sometimes. To get advancement. Aye.



Got a reference for that bold claim of research findings?

Sounds like bullshit to me and my admitedly limited understanding of genetics and evolution.

[Hans]

ABC 101, anyone?

[Brownstoo]

When will they learn that they're to blame for themselves being so shit. I mean if you say bro and cuz a whole bunch you already get practically free study at uni.

Stop making it easy for maoris! Stop paying them to sit on their arses and get everything handed to them for free. It's fucking mad!
Basic economics is that people respond to incentives. This has been proven so many times that it's fucking shocking that governments don't use this basic principal to make countries better.

Here's how it works. You give someone something for free, they won't work for it because they've already got it, ergo no incentive.

So if maoris are practically given university entrance as a birthright, they won't work hard for it, they'll get to uni and go "oh nah bro it's all g I'm wif Pita Sarpalzzz", get accepted, and fail epically hard because they've done none of the learning you need to do before you get to uni, and then they'll ask for maoris to just get a degree simply for saying bro and cuz a whole bunch.

What the government has done (and the world as a whole to 'under privileged races') is the exact opposite of what should be done (referring to the privilegedness of maoris, not this pita shatpiles thing).
If they do this, all that'll happen is we'll have billions, on top of our already excess supply of useless BA's and maybe even a few BA graduates. And you and me would have paid for them all. And we'd probably be paying to feed them too!

Fuck it lets all interbreed heaps and this will all go away when we're all exactly the same!

[Dave Lobster]

that guy who is charging the islanders $500 for a maori passport has the right idea

I bet he only picks on the people that have that special gene.

[SARGE]

Not true. The Americans could have got here first and then there would hardly be any maories because they would almost kill them to extinction like the native American indians. Or maybe the Chinese(if they're communist back then) get here and the maori population ends up enslaved in shoe factories.

Anyway if the English didn't come, then someone else would.

I think youll find that the Native American / Maori situation is pretty close to being the same. they were not hunted to near extinction ( sure there were some dark times and douchebaggery) but there are still plenty left. ( i am actually a half breed Cherokee Indian myself)


the Native Americans were given large chunks of tax free land for use as Reservations, on which they now enjoy legal gambling, duty free smokes and booze and heaps of other Govt perks. not the perfect solution but it works.

a good majority of N/A live below the poverty line but that is not due to lack of opportunity.. it is due to a feeling of entitlement and when the reality hits, they are usually unskilled and lazy enough to fall between the cracks.


if Maori get preferential treatment, every natural born kiwi should get the same. far as i can tell .. you are all native New Zealanders and should be treated the same .. open access to beaches/ forests/ etc.. open access to community services and govt loans/ subsidies and equal in the eyes of the govt in every way..


the treaty of Wango Tango should cover everyone who drew their first breath on NZ Soil

[Trudes]

the treaty of Wango Tango should cover everyone who drew their first breath on NZ Soil
and when I bitched about that during a university paper contact course (The Treaty of Waitangi paper) I was informed that it is my (being Pakeha) treaty too, being that the Treaty of Waitangi is essentially an agreement between two partners, Maori and The Crown (representing Europeans, Pakeha, white fellas, the English oppressor... whatever, been called them all) in which case, yes, it does cover my rights as well as Maori. (pfft)
At the end of the day I see it as the Equality vs. Equity debate... in order for Maori to have equal opportunities they need a "hand up" to reach equity in all areas of life and this is basically a way of doing that. To be honest, if I was Maori, I'd be a little pissed off with being painted as so useless that I need constant help from the Government and who ever else to do some basic things in life, like get an education, feed my kids etc.
Now don't get me wrong, I personally don't think its right... I believe people make their own fortunes... just some are born with more chances of being able to reach their ultimate potential depending upon the opportunities and fortunes of their family, but it has been shown again and again that people born into poverty can break out of it and make something of themselves if they really want it... they just have to work a bit harder at it, difficult if you have stink role models etc, but not impossible.
I think it's a bit like a spoilt child, the more you give them the more ungrateful they become and the more they expect. If you give a teenager a car the minute they get their licence there's a good chance they won't respect it and trash it pretty quickly, but if they had to work hard and earn the money to buy that car themselves there's a good chance they'll take good care of it.

[awayatc]

Maybe we can give them their own University?
Will Paremoremo do?
Will make statistics look good 2.....
Huge drop in Moari prison population,
AND huge increase in moari university attendance....
PLUS plenty of graduates to chose from for staffing purposes..

[u4ea]

As for this, while they may get entry into 2nd year, ALL medical students sit the same 5th year test determining whether they are fit to practice, no matter what race they are. There is no way in hell medical schools are going to be letting people graduate that are a danger to society.

Heres hoping that maori wont have the automatic right be fit in the 5th year in the future because they are simply a maori..This whole idea by Pita is socially irresponsible.

[davereid]

Heres hoping that maori wont have the automatic right be fit in the 5th year in the future because they are simply a maori..This whole idea by Pita is socially irresponsible.

The danger is that any policy of "positive discrimination" usually requires lowering the required standard.

Some maori will undoubtedly get a degree with a standard of work that would not normally constitute a pass for another racial group.

Other maori may do the hard yards, and get a legitimate, hard-won qualification.

How will I know, as an employer, which of the candidates has really shown the intelligence, committment and work ethic required to get a degree ?

Only by hiring the non maori ?

[martybabe]

The danger is that any policy of "positive discrimination" usually requires lowering the required standard.



Exactly Dave, I despise 'positive Descrimination' it's as evil as descrimination itself, in fact it is descrimonation by definition. I know of several such practices in the UK where the standards were lowered to encourage enrolment by candidates of other ethnic origins and genders with the sole purpose of using statistical percentages to gain PC points.

In one such incident, where the Union called foul when the entry criteria were reduced to encourage Afro Caribbeans into the work force, the entry criteria remained exactly the same to appease the union and work force but 'special task forces' were appointed to coach only the Afro Caribbeans through the entry exam. By coaching I mean giving them the answers to the test!