HR companies/people?

[cowpoos]

Is it just me...or are HR [recruitment type] companies/departments...full of really dumb people!!

Is that the reason Employers can't find good staff?? because they hire retards to do it for them?? and when I say retards...I am actually being really nice!

[Motu]

What the fuck is a Human Relation company....a company of cuzzies? Use plain English for us retards please.

[mynameis]

Maybe there's a misunderstanding, cough up fella what happend ?

[cowpoos]

What the fuck is a Human Relation company....a company of cuzzies? Use plain English for us retards please.
HR as in recruitment??...employment agency??

[Mom]

I have had the pleasure? of dealing with a couple of these companies recently, and I am going to support the premise that they are a total waste of space.

"Hi, its Rebecca from Blah, blah here, just following up on your application for the position of Head Greenkeeper we have on our books"

"WHAT?"

"I need to let you know, your application has not been sucessful at this time."

"Thank goodness for that, I dont know the first thing about keeping greens, I applied for a fixed term Administrators position"

"Really?"

And on and on...

I am hoping the bowling club that was looking for a new greenkeeper did not pay anything up front really.

[R6_kid]

They sure can be at times. I once applied for a job through an agency to deal with pilot recruitment and screening for airlines, the job was described as fairly straight forward but required and interest in aviaton, computer literacy, good english etc etc. I said in the application that I am passionate about aviation and the industry in general and that I was intending to become a pilot myself in the future. The reply I got when their representative called me was "The job is pilot recruiting, we're not actually looking for pilots, so the job probably won't suit you. Have a nice day."

Also had a friend of mine get declined a job at Sovereign (through their HR department) working with accounts management because "the job requires a degree". He had 6yrs experience doing THAT EXACT JOB in England - without needing a degree. When he applied for a 'similar' job through an agency they put him straight through for an interview with the boss and he got the job. The same job that HR had said only days before that he wasn't capable of doing as he didn't have a formal qualification.

[oldrider]

Just like there are bikes and bikes, mechanics and mechanics!

There are different degrees of quality in Human Resource services.

Unfortunately I think there are probably more poor ones than there are good ones! :yes:

New Zealand is not known for it's quality managers! :nono:

[Squiggles]

Useless in my experiences & a waste of an employers money

[Hitcher]

The good recruiters are really good. A couple over the years have found me better jobs that I didn't even apply for.

[popelli]

Useless in my experiences & a waste of an employers money

add plus one to that comment

[Naki Rat]

HR = Human Resources (consultants)

They are bureaucratic leeches feeding on the unemployment boom happening of late.

There are also situations in which being turned down for a job you are well suited for is not their fault though.... when the employer is just going through the motions of advertising for a position that they know fully well is to be filled from within their organisation.

Either way it is a real pissoff wasting ones time and hopes on an application that is doomed to failure for no reason that can be foreseen by the applicant.

[cowpoos]

ahhh...for the record...to the people repping me and saying didn't get the job etc??? thats not the case...but thanks anyway :)

[slofox]

The only reason their job is getting jobs for other people, is that they can't hold down a bloody job themselves..!

[Mully]

Our in-house HR department are an equal opportunity employer.

As long as you're a mouth breathing moron.....

[Motu]

HR as in recruitment??...employment agency??

Jeez,if they have to cover up the fact that they are just an employment agency with a fancy name I don't understand....they might miss out on my business,as I would be looking for an employment agency.

[MisterD]

Well MrsD is an HR professional for a somewhat of a Kiwi icon company that I won't name...and really you should hear her opinion of recruitment companies...swears more than me, she does...nearly as much as Flatcap's missus...

[mynameis]

Wonders why there are so many successful recruitment companies around and doing well and the number of companies using them to do their recruitment ..... do be do be dooo :whistle:

[jrandom]

The good recruiters are really good. A couple over the years have found me better jobs that I didn't even apply for.

What he said.

Good recruiters aren't 'HR' people. At least not in my experience. They're guys with decades of industry experience who (sometimes unintentionally) slide into hiring and referring (within their industry) rather than doing the work themselves.

I've never met a 'professional HR' person who wasn't, at least in that respect, a waste of oxygen.

[scracha]

Is it just me...or are HR [recruitment type] companies/departments...full of really dumb people!!

Is that the reason Employers can't find good staff?? because they hire retards to do it for them?? and when I say retards...I am actually being really nice!

Yeah mate. Absolute fucktards the lot of them.

I got into a lotta trouble once for publicly questioning an HR manager (yankeedoodle bluechip co so they had some "vice president" moniker or some bullshit like that) who sent everyone in the company an email asking when they started working at the company. This is a day after they announced 20,000 redundancies. Hardly morale boosting and FFS, if the HR department can't keep records of when employees started then you've really got to question their purpose in life?

At least the majority of them are reasonably attractive ladies as they've got no other redeeming attributes.

[want-a-harley]

My brother in law is super intelligent, but, is for some reason wasting his brain in HR. Anyway he's just finished his masters and said half of it is basically protecting your job

[R6_kid]

At least the majority of them are reasonably attractive ladies as they've got no other redeeming attributes.

That was the one saving grace of the last temp agency I used... nothing like having beautiful women delivering you dunkin donuts once a month and wanting to have a chat to see how things are going.

[RantyDave]

The good recruiters are really good.
If one is a computer nerd, or a contract computer nerd, then recruiters perform a very important task: They schmooze and lunch and golf and drink and set up corporate bullshit events so they can have "face time" with the people who may or may not be getting an enormous fuck-off pile of money to spend on nerds ... so I don't have to. And this takes them a whole shitload of time, months and months and months, but it does mean that one can go from not having a job to having one in six months less than it might have otherwise taken. For this they take 15-20 percent IIRC.

It's actually a reasonably efficient retail operation in many ways. The markup on clothes is 50% or so and if you go to work full time for some big consulting gig they'll pay you $50/hr, charge you out at $150/hr and snort the difference off the bonnet of their Ferrari. Or, worse, spend it on completely extraneous members of staff or "middle management" as they like to be called.

So, yeah, an industry full of vacuous narcissistic men in their late 40's who don't know the first thing about the jobs they are recruiting into. But they do know about getting the right people drunk and pretending to be their mate and for that, they are worth it.

Dave

[Oakie]

I'm in HR and am responsible for recruiting for my employer. We have on occasion used HR companies but don't anymore because the results weren't great (except for when they hired me that way of course!)
Two things:
1) Bloody hard for a third party to select the right people. It's challenging enough doing it for a company I know intimately. Don't know how an external recruiter can do it well.
2) The tricky part about the interview process is that people tend to exagerate their ability and minimise their shortcomings. It's no wonder then that some bad apples get through the system. The fun part about interviewing is weeding out these guys. Sometimes you get a feeling that they're hiding something and then it becomes like a game of chess trying to get to the bottom of it. Quite a buzz some times.Reference checking usually sorts out any other baddies that get through the first interviews but occasionally referees will also exagerate or minimise.

Trust me, recruiting is a whole lot harder than just picking the best looking CV or the person you liked best in the interviews.

[jimevo]

Recruiters are match makers... matching the perfect talent to an employer who is willing to pay 20%+ of the agreed annual salary (current rate in the U.S.) is not easy at all. There are plenty of cowboys out there for sure but I firmly believe it's still up to the applicant to be that pefect fit for the job... the recruiter is really just there to make things happen!

[BarBender]

Is it just me...or are HR [recruitment type] companies/departments...full of really dumb people!! Is that the reason Employers can't find good staff?? because they hire retards to do it for them?? and when I say retards...I am actually being really nice!

Some are good Poos but unfortunately there are those out there that pull the profession down.
At a departmental level, recruitment can be an entry level HR function that is largely transactional and so accessible for all types (and often those with the wrong skill set) to get into the HR profession.

You shake and roll the dice in terms of consultants. The better ones either (i) specialise; (ii) are well resourced and thus expensive; or (iii) manage to successfuly balance holding up a business/cost centre while delivering good candidates and keeping clients happy.


Just like there are bikes and bikes, mechanics and mechanics!
There are different degrees of quality in Human Resource services.
Unfortunately I think there are probably more poor ones than there are good ones! :yes:
New Zealand is not known for it's quality managers! :nono:
Hole in one. Managers could know how to recruit! It could save someone some money. :shutup:


What he said.
Good recruiters aren't 'HR' people. At least not in my experience. They're guys with decades of industry experience who (sometimes unintentionally) slide into hiring and referring (within their industry) rather than doing the work themselves.
I've never met a 'professional HR' person who wasn't, at least in that respect, a waste of oxygen.
Thank God I've never had to deal with you on a professional level Dan!!:laugh:

[Blackbird]

I'm in HR and am responsible for recruiting for my employer.

I have no issue with recruitment being undertaken by HR in conjunction with staff from the department who needs someone. I do, however, have a real issue with the the ethics/lack of rigour shown during restructuring.

Before I retired, I was a manager with one of NZ's biggest manufacturers. As part of one of many restructures, the Group HR manager came up with a stupid idea for another area which would indirectly have an adverse impact on our team's productivity. I asked for the justification after tabling the likely impact, received bluster but no facts and then the prick tried to tell our CEO that I wasn't "forward thinking" to belittle me.

Fortunately, HR didn't get its way on this occasion but it was a close thing and I was pretty disappointed that a dumb plan was allowed to go so far without measurable data.

And don't get me started about HR having responsibility for staff development.....:shutup:

I feel a lot better now...:innocent:

[Hitcher]

And don't get me started about HR having responsibility for staff development...

Any organisation that delegates that level of authority to an HR department deserves everything it gets. HR practitioners should be advisers and administrators. They should not be allowed to get in the way of normal day to day relationships between managers and their staff. Their role is to support those relationships, not do them.

[vifferman]

Any organisation that delegates that level of authority to an HR department deserves everything it gets. HR practitioners should be advisers and administrators. They should not be allowed to get in the way of normal day to day relationships between managers and their staff. Their role is to support those relationships, not do them.
Yet too often HR people are at the executive level in companies, when the role rarely requires that level of seniority. Our (part-time) HR person was on the executive of our company, before she did what many HR people do, and used her position to get a better job in the parent company. Now she's even more senior, gets paid more, and we see her in here a couple of days a month. She doesn't actually seem to be available for HR-type work - just flits into her office, schmoozes with the managers, flits out again. Often most of the staff don't know she's here.
Probably just as well - she's not a particularly good 'people person', as although she's personable enough, she's just not a good listener.

As for agencies - the one most of our employees are recruited through are very good. Shame that the people here who conduct the in-company interviews are so crap. The thing to remember about agencies is they are agents, and like all agents, their main objective is their commission.

[Hitcher]

Yet too often HR people are at the executive level in companies, when the role rarely requires that level of seniority.

I'll disagree with you on that point. HR is an extremely important and particularly vital aspect of organisational performance. Performance management systems, staff development and training, occupational safety and health, negotiation of collective employment agreements, payroll and other matters don't just happen by themselves.

There is a significant strategic aspect to HR around retention and recruitment which involves more than making sure people get paid on time and bunging ads in the paper when there's a vacancy.

[jim.cox]

Every time I hear the term "HR" I think "Human Remains"

[Blackbird]

Every time I hear the term "HR" I think "Human Remains"

Hahaha - as opposed to Industrial Relations (I.R) being Inhuman Remains.

[vifferman]

HR is an extremely important and particularly vital aspect of organisational performance. Performance management systems, staff development and training, occupational safety and health, negotiation of collective employment agreements, payroll and other matters don't just happen by themselves.

There is a significant strategic aspect to HR around retention and recruitment which involves more than making sure people get paid on time and bunging ads in the paper when there's a vacancy.
I agree with you (in principle), but our HR person doesn't do much of that - it's handled by other senior people.
OSH is someone else's responsibility, as is the payroll. Recruitment also seems to be handled by section heads, in conjunction with an external HR company.
I had quite close relationship with the HR person in my last job - she definitely did many of the things you mentioned, yet up until just after I left, she had quite a lowly position.

[Oakie]

I'll disagree with you on that point. HR is an extremely important and particularly vital aspect of organisational performance. Performance management systems, staff development and training, occupational safety and health, negotiation of collective employment agreements, payroll and other matters don't just happen by themselves.

There is a significant strategic aspect to HR around retention and recruitment which involves more than making sure people get paid on time and bunging ads in the paper when there's a vacancy.

Aww thanks Hitcher. I feel appreciated now.

Different organisations will do things differently. Health and Safety and Payroll aren't necessarily HR functions although I've done payroll for 15 years now and take on Health and Safety because I enjoy it. Recruitment should be initiated by HR and taken as far as first interviews to weed out the nutters then handed onto relevant managers to pick their favoured shortlisted candidate.

I strongly believe that HR is generally a support role to those who do the real work in an organisation but also believe that HR needs a seat at the management table to ensure that A) employment legislation is adhered to and B) to be aware of what is going on the organisation so the HR function can be geared towards the organisation's goals.

[MisterD]

Every time I hear the term "HR" I think "Human Remains"

Funny you should say that...my old man was an HR director for a multi-national and more than once his PA had calls asking "Is that the department of human remains?" must be a common condition you've contracted...

[Number One]

As Oakie says - HR is different in different organisations....some of the functions can be split meaning more specialised services or they can be all loaded on one person who then has to try to be good at everything - sometimes with very little success.

Recruitment agencies are good and bad - I have experienced sad pathetic waste of space ones but have also had the very good fortune of working with some that are fantastic at what they do.

In relation to HR within an organisation - The level of 'support' they can offer does (as with any role/discipline) depend on the experience and calibre of the people in those roles and also important is the level of support and buy in they have from their senior teams and managers and again that can be determined by the HR teams collective credibility and skill.

I used to think I wanted to be an HR 'generalist' (account management for example) the truth is that I actually like people too much and I dislike corporations and bureaucracy to my core. I naively thought HR was about looking after people - it is - to a point but at the end of the day often it is about protecting the employer and at times legally shafting the people while presenting the facade of supporting and looking after them.

Recruiting and all those specific HR functions are when delivered well vital and important functions that can have a very positive effect on the culture and bottom line of an organisation...but when delivered poorly of course they are a total waste of space...again as in the case of any function. I would argue that the IT functions I have had the displeasure of dealing with are total wastes of space full of boffins that couldn't relate to another person if their life depended on it who deliver crap systems that make working a trial... but then that's just my experience - some I am sure are worth their weight in gold.

Personally...in my role the job satisfaction comes from supporting individual staff members with their career and general development. Sometimes that means helping people to develop so they can get another role either inside the org or externally - either way this means either a more engaged staff member or saying goodbye to what might have become (if left to fester) a poor performer that drags others down with them.

Sadly too management/leadership calibre is not great. Trends internationally suggest that truely effective managers/leaders are in the minority. In my experience I have observed that TOO many managers are just 'technical experts' who hung around long enough to be promoted into leadership. Management and leadership is about getting work done through others not 'doing the work yourself' and the notion of supporting their teams and helping them grow to be effective productive team members is seen as a side issue and one they 'just don't have the time to do'.

[Blackbird]

Sadly too management/leadership calibre is not great.

Agreed, and even if they are, the organisation can still be somewhat dysfunctional. Not all that long ago, my old company got taken over by what is best described as a corporate raider (hint: his first name is Graeme :shifty:). Very talented guy, unbelievably wealthy but his aims are at considerable variance with most companies where long term strategy, development, "growing" people and so on are important.

My CEO was a real leader (as opposed to a manager) but he either had to follow the shorter term objectives of his boss or leave. These shorter term objectives included restructures, thinning employee numbers, screwing down wages and a whole lot more actions which are sustainable in the short term (e.g prior to on-selling the company) but do long-term damage. Sadly, the HR team are usually the people who have to execute these policies which does nothing to promote their cause.

It's a complicated world all right.

[Ixion]

Many a true word said in jest.

The ethos of HR departments may be deduced from their name.

Once, we had masters and servants. Fair enough, that's the reality. I don't mind being a servant. Then bosses and workers. Don't mind that, either. Worker is what I am .Proud of it. Then employers and employees. Nasty frenchification , but otherwise OK I guess.

Now we have directors and "resources". Human resources. Not people. Not workers. Not servants. Not even employees. Just "resources". Something that is exploited, used up, and then discarded. Says it all really. The truely ironic thing is that almost invariably the "human resources" department is composed of people who hate people . Hence their need to dehumanise the "resources". I will not be a "resource"

[crash harry]

Our HR dept (for the most part) are great. They do an awesome job, and save us a load of hassle. I wouldn't be without them. I suspect this is often the case with HR when they are internal to a larger company.

HR companies - ie companies that don't actually do anything else - ie recruiters, are generally arseholes. Particularly here in NZ. I've had some reasonable experience with them overseas (still well less than 50% were useful though) but here, 0% hit rate. They have all been less than useless.

Spend an hour or two of your time with their "consultant" who carefully takes down all of your details, what you're looking for, qualifications, etc and then sends you to an interview for something that you're not qualified for or even interested in.

Social parasites.

/rant

[Oakie]

The truely ironic thing is that almost invariably the "human resources" department is composed of people who hate people.


That's a pretty broad statement for such a narrow mind!

It's about as accurate as saying that "almost invariably the motorcycle workshop is composed of people who hate motorcycles".

Perhaps it does seem like that to you though because the HR Departments you've come across just don't like you? Some people just do rub us the wrong way ... even though most of us are able to hide it.

[Ixion]

..
Perhaps it does seem like that to you though because the HR Departments you've come across just don't like you? Some people just do rub us the wrong way ... even though most of us are able to hide it.

I'm sure they don't like me! I challenge them, and they detest that.

I really should have said, however, that HR departments generally hate people who do not think and behave exactly as they (the HR folk) do. In my experience HR practitioners are remarkably non-inclusive and have enormous trouble relating to anyone who does not share their (very circumscribed) opinions and philosophies . They are pretty much all out of a mold. Which is probably why so many posters relate unsatisfactory experiences in dealings with recruitment agencies. It is unlikely that anyone posting here would share the mind set of the typical HR person .

They are particularly inadequate at dealing with "non arty" people - which they usually resolve by being enormously condescending.

As always , generalities may not be valid for individuals, and I am sure that you are indeed an exception.

[Oakie]

Thanks for clarifying what you said Ixion. I have seen what you describe in some HR people I've worked with in the past and if that is what you've seen too then I understand your feelings. A couple of those I've worked with have been real pricks (or whatever the female equivalent of a 'prick' is?)

[oldrider]

Agreed, and even if they are, the organisation can still be somewhat dysfunctional. Not all that long ago, my old company got taken over by what is best described as a corporate raider (hint: his first name is Graeme :shifty:). Very talented guy, unbelievably wealthy but his aims are at considerable variance with most companies where long term strategy, development, "growing" people and so on are important.

My CEO was a real leader (as opposed to a manager) but he either had to follow the shorter term objectives of his boss or leave. These shorter term objectives included restructures, thinning employee numbers, screwing down wages and a whole lot more actions which are sustainable in the short term (e.g prior to on-selling the company) but do long-term damage. Sadly, the HR team are usually the people who have to execute these policies which does nothing to promote their cause.

It's a complicated world all right.

These things being applied to an "ailing" company and where they applied because of sound business reasons for sound business results, are OK.

There is no need to treat employees badly in the process, that happens mainly because those managing the process are incompetent!

Well, that's been my experience anyway! :whistle:

[Blackbird]

These things being applied to an "ailing" company and where they applied because of sound business reasons for sound business results, are OK.

There is no need to treat employees badly in the process, that happens mainly because those managing the process are incompetent!

Well, that's been my experience anyway! :whistle:

Agree on all counts but corporate raiders don't have to think long term so employees at all levels tend to get treated purely as "resources" which someone else so aptly noted.

[Ixion]

Thanks for clarifying what you said Ixion. I have seen what you describe in some HR people I've worked with in the past and if that is what you've seen too then I understand your feelings. A couple of those I've worked with have been real pricks (or whatever the female equivalent of a 'prick' is?)

Twat I suppose. And , yes, the worst are those youngish (20/30 something) chicks .

Especially in larger organisations , which will normally encompass a very wide spread of people , I think that it is inmportant that the HR bods be older people who have had a "previous existence". Not , as too often happens, arts graduates who have gone straight into HR.

[Oakie]

I think that it is inmportant that the HR bods be older people who have had a "previous existence". Not , as too often happens, arts graduates who have gone straight into HR.

Agreed. You can't learn empathy from a textbook.

[short-circuit]

(in)human(e) resource management is the misuse of a psychology degree.

Fucking leeches - the lot of them.

[oldrider]

(in)human(e) resource management is the misuse of a psychology degree.

Fucking leeches - the lot of them.

Obviously the ones you have struck must have been biased against you! :nono:

Now if it was me making the judgement I would have asked you what sort of bike do you ride?

"TRIUMPH"..!!!! No further questions required, report to the section leader for immediate start. :mellow:

Sort of like...when interview process concluded, we take the one with the tits anyway. :whistle:

Works every time, no need for fairness and silly time wasting process! :oi-grr: and everybody is happy. :shifty:

[Oakie]

(in)human(e) resource management is the misuse of a psychology degree.
Psych degree! Pfft! My School Cert in 2 subjects has got me there (oh, and 32 years interacting with people in the workplace.)


Fucking leeches - the lot of them.
Don't knock leeches. The medical profession still uses them.

Hey come here short-circuit ... I know someone who needs an HR hug :hug:

[short-circuit]

Obviously the ones you have struck must have been biased against you!

No completely wrong. They don't affect me - not in my line of work (thank fuck I don't have to deal with "management" of any kind).

[short-circuit]

Psych degree! Pfft! My School Cert in 2 subjects has got me there (oh, and 32 years interacting with people in the workplace.)


Don't knock leeches. The medical profession still uses them.

Hey come here short-circuit ... I know someone who needs an HR hug :hug:

Some of my best friends have misused their psych degrees to get into this "field".

Deep down they know it's a bullshit role - even if they have moved from corporations to social service providers. I tell one such person her role is even more ludicrous and incongruent in the human services.

[short-circuit]

Hey come here short-circuit ... I know someone who needs an HR hug :hug:

Don't grin fuck me

[Oakie]

No completely wrong. They don't affect me - not in my line of work (thank fuck I don't have to deal with "management" of any kind.

What do you do?

[short-circuit]

What do you do?

Something worthwhile

[Oakie]

Some of my best friends have misused their psych degrees to get into this "field"..

I suppose it's quicker to get a degree than amass the shitload of life experience I reckon you need to do the job well.

[short-circuit]

I suppose it's quicker to get a degree than amass the shitload of life experience I reckon you need to do the job well.

I'm saying you're all shit (you are just an unqualified one). Face it an H.R person is just another "consultant" - more middle management. It's job that bosses used to do themselves - hiring (recruitment), firing ("streamlining", "restructuring", "diversifying") and sorting out management fuck ups and staffing shit fights (conflict resolution).

I agree you don't need a degree - but any degree is infinately more useful that an H.R. person.

[Number One]

I'm saying you're all shit (you are just an unqualified one). Face it an H.R person is just another "consultant" - more middle management. It's job that bosses used to do themselves - hiring (recruitment), firing ("streamlining", "restructuring", "diversifying") and sorting out management fuck ups and staffing shit fights (conflict resolution).

I agree you don't need a degree - but any degree is infinately more useful that an H.R. person.
:rofl: you're a real charmer aren't ya

[short-circuit]

This is good isn't it? A bit of role reversal...


Go on then Oakie, you demonstrate the "value you add" to your business and KBers can decide whether they think you "should be kept on in your current role".

Extra points for business speak phrases :tugger: Here's a guide for you: http://www.stokely.com/lighter.side/mgmt.spk.html

[Hitcher]

I'm saying you're all shit (you are just an unqualified one). Face it an H.R person is just another "consultant" - more middle management. It's job that bosses used to do themselves - hiring (recruitment), firing ("streamlining", "restructuring", "diversifying") and sorting out management fuck ups and staffing shit fights (conflict resolution).

I agree you don't need a degree - but any degree is infinately more useful that an H.R. person.

Do you have any idea at all about tjhe profession of HR or are you trying to shit stir?

[short-circuit]

Do you have any idea at all about tjhe profession of HR or are you trying to shit stir?

Yes and yes in answer to your questions.

Now if you would like to try to help Oakie with my previous post - I'm all ears Hitcher.

Remember to "maximise your worth" and "increase your efficiency" with fitting phraseology (see above link)

[Owl]

Future HR manager?:yes:

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/u8lCa7ganLs&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/u8lCa7ganLs&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

[Oakie]

Go on then Oakie, you demonstrate the "value you add" to your business and KBers can decide whether they think you "should be kept on in your current role".

Well this'll be interesting. I'll need to wait until tonight though because I need to spend my work time today processing the payroll. (unless you'd accept that as my response?)

[Shaun S]

Well this'll be interesting. I'll need to wait until tonight though because I need to spend my work time today processing the payroll. (unless you'd accept that as my response?)You are joking right?

Why would anyone in their right mind step up to such an abvious bating parade? It has nothing to do with him or KB what your value is to your employer, it is up to your employer. Or have I missed something?

Re the original question, I would say it is like every other profession in life - you have people who do it well and people who dont! It is up to the job seeker or employer to ensure they are not engaging with the latter.

[MisterD]

It's job that bosses used to do themselves -

Yeah, 'cos obviously a Production Manager (for instance) wants to spend time doing all that stuff, whilst complying with employment and health and safety legislation rather than, you know actually managing production.

[Headbanger]

You are joking right?

Why would anyone in their right mind step up to such an obvious baiting parade?


Entertainment.

[Shaun S]

Entertainment.So this was not a serious question/thread and all this slightly rabid behavior, slagging a certain profession and dueling to see who has the fastest wit is just the way people on this site entertain themselves?

And here I was thinking we were having a discussion around a valid question the original poster made. Fuck me!

[Headbanger]

So this was not a serious question/thread and all this slightly rabid behaviour, slagging a certain profession and duelling to see who has the fastest wit is just the way people on this entertain themselves?

And here I was thinking we were having a discussion around a valid question the original poster made. Fuck me!

I'm sure there is room for both. No one has to give credence to slagging by replying to it if they don't want to.And if they do wish to...Then thats their right to reply.

And 10 points to you for trying to uphold standards in a thread designed to nominate HR persons as retarded.

[short-circuit]

Well this'll be interesting. I'll need to wait until tonight though because I need to spend my work time today processing the payroll. (unless you'd accept that as my response?)

That's fine by me - take your time.

I'll help you in consulting capacity: You should look into hiring a payroll clerk.

[short-circuit]

Yeah, 'cos obviously a Production Manager (for instance) wants to spend time doing all that stuff, whilst complying with employment and health and safety legislation rather than, you know actually managing production.

Yeah - better to streamline your workforce instead so you can employ a middle management structure. They you can do even less than you already do and reward yourself with a big fat payrise.

No bonus points for anyone so far - most disappointing

[short-circuit]

slagging a certain profession

1, I would go so far as to call it a profession.

2, Half their job involves finding reasons to make others redundant - lets scrutinize their actual value then we can decide if they are worth keeping on.

[Eng_dave]

Is it just me...or are HR [recruitment type] companies/departments...full of really dumb people!!

Is that the reason Employers can't find good staff?? because they hire retards to do it for them?? and when I say retards...I am actually being really nice!

The only thing im going to say id there is a reason they get other people a job but never them selfs a job. :brick:

[MisterD]

Yeah - better to streamline your workforce instead so you can employ a middle management structure. They you can do even less than you already do and reward yourself with a big fat payrise.

No bonus points for anyone so far - most disappointing

I'm sensing some bitterness here - do you have a history with a DCM in it?

[thecharmed01]

Luckily for me I have never had to use an HR company for work, I've only ever had jobs through word of mouth and being poached by other companies.

I have been on the receiving end of a rant just a few days ago though, from someone I know who was hunting for a new job.
She signed up with a very well known agency thinking it was a good idea and submitted her CV, did the interviews and went through the motions.
They called her asking if they could submit her CV for a specific role, and she was very excited and said of course. Recruiter told her they would call her in a few days with whether she was getting an opportunity to interview for said role.
5 days later......
Friend 1 bumps into Friend 2 (non-riding buddy) who works for specific company and excitedly tells her that she has applied for the job with her firm, through XXX Recruitment Agency. Friend 2 gets all excited and offers to recommend her since she knows she has applied.
Friend 2 goes back to work, then calls Friend 1 to tell her this;
Recruitment agency were NOT contracted to fill this role.
All CV's submitted by Recruitment Agency were in fact returned to sender and not even looked at. Automatic rejection.
Friend 1 was devastated but Friend 2 was onto it!
Friend 2 gets an emailed copy of the CV and submits it to her boss as a personal recommendation, and Friend 1 now works there too as of yesterday!! WOOT for them both!!!!

Add to that, Friend 1 STILL hasnt been contacted by Recruiter to tell her the position has been filled - or that she wasnt going to be interviewed!! LOL

I told her she should actually do something about that, because I think its shite that they can get away with getting peoples hopes up for interview possibilities when they dont even have the right to submit applications!!!
Bloody rude if you ask me and nasty!
:argh:

[munterk6]

Last year the company I work for decided to make a position in the workshop redundant 'due to the current economic climate'.
HR lady came to a meeting in the smoko room and discussed options. We all agreed on each tech losing 4 hours a week which added up to 40 hours, the equivalent of one tech going.
Here's the irony of it all....two weeks later the HR lady was made redundant.
I saw her in tears in her car, poor girl, she was actually very nice and easy to get along with.
Its like hiring a hitman to take out a marked man, then taking out the hitman to clean up the mess. :whistle:

[Finn]

Something worthwhile

Somehow I find that very hard to believe.

[Finn]

I'm sensing some bitterness here - do you have a history with a DCM in it?

More like DCAA.

[thecharmed01]

Last year the company I work for decided to make a position in the workshop redundant 'due to the current economic climate'.
HR lady came to a meeting in the smoko room and discussed options. We all agreed on each tech losing 4 hours a week which added up to 40 hours, the equivalent of one tech going.
Here's the irony of it all....two weeks later the HR lady was made redundant.
I saw her in tears in her car, poor girl, she was actually very nice and easy to get along with.
Its like hiring a hitman to take out a marked man, then taking out the hitman to clean up the mess. :whistle:

That's a bloody good solution though, mad props to you guys for putting a workable solution in place to prevent a job loss!!
:2thumbsup

[SlowHand]

Career advisor: what do you want to do when you finish school?
Student: I want to be a career advisor
CA: What makes you think you can do that?
S: Well, Im very good letting people down and taking people's dreams and crushing them
CA:............ no i don't think you have the maths

[BarBender]

Somehow I find that very hard to believe.
+1



I told her she should actually do something about that, because I think its shite that they can get away with getting peoples hopes up for interview possibilities when they dont even have the right to submit applications!!!
Bloody rude if you ask me and nasty!
:argh:

A prominent recruiter/HR consultancy in the late 80's (owned by a woolclasser and scientist) delivered years of shady service to a generation of middle managers in this country. The consultancy's demise later came when those managers became CEOs, MDs, executive staff and board members. Many of these people have never forgotten how they were treated and will not have a bar of the consultancy now - even after it was taken over by a global and had two subsequent brand changes.

HR consultancy/recruitment is for some a good way to make a quick buck.
You dont need to be an HR professional to do it.
Yep - your friend should definitely do something about it.

[Oakie]

Go on then Oakie, you demonstrate the "value you add" to your business and KBers can decide whether they think you "should be kept on in your current role".

I hope no one has been waiting all day for this to be a revelation because there's nothing startling about it. I could refer to the value I personally bring to my own employer but because you say
I'm saying you're all shit my answers won't be about me specifically and will be generic to HR employees in general (but not the ones in recruitment agencies / HR companies because I have my doubts about them too)

The value I add by performing the HR role for my employer:
1) By doing the 'people related' stuff ... to use your own words
hiring (recruitment), firing ("streamlining", "restructuring", "diversifying") and sorting out management fuck ups and staffing shit fights (conflict resolution).. allows the managers to focus on their core roles. They get to concentrate on what they are paid to do.

I guess as the GM or business owner you have the choice of taking each of your:
Production Manager
Operations Manager
Sales Manager
Finance Manager
Maintenance Manager
and whatever else Manager
and making sure that they have the skills and knowledge to handle what I do , but then why not get them all clued up on accounting and get rid of the Finance Manager or get them each a toolbelt and get rid of the Maintenance Manager? The answer is that these are specific disciplines best performed by people with appropriate training and with the personal aptitude for the job. It's about providing a quality product

2) Quality. By bringing expertise to the role we finish up with better outcomes from instances of
hiring (recruitment), firing ("streamlining", "restructuring", "diversifying") and sorting out management fuck ups and staffing shit fights (conflict resolution).. than we would if it were left to managers who don't have the skills for it. You can talk about efficiencies and stuff if you want to but if you get any of
hiring (recruitment), firing ("streamlining", "restructuring", "diversifying") and sorting out management fuck ups and staffing shit fights (conflict resolution).. wrong it can cost you big. The most recent from the Employment Court ... a $100,000 finding against a Hotel owner for doing a restructuring in what the court found was an unfair manner. Trust that shit to your Maintenance Manager or Sales Manager to handle if you want but just keep your cheque book handy.

Summary of those 2 points. When a 'person issue' comes up for a manager outside of the HR discipline then it is an interruption to their work. When a 'person issue' comes up for an HR person it is the reason for our work. Who do you think is going to deal with it best?


Face it an H.R person is just another "consultant" - Yes, we often are. Nothing to face up to there. That's part of the service we offer to the organisation. As I did the pays today I was probably 'consulted' by our Managers about half a dozen times. Do I expect them to know the answer to "can we pay someone when the doctor has quarantined them due to swine flu?" or "what do I do if Shayne is off work sick but has no sick leave but I want to pay him?". No I don't expect them too. I do however expect them to be confident that I know the answer .

Oh OK then. What did I do to add value to my organisation today? I turned up for work!

[Headbanger]

I hope no one has been waiting all day for this to be a revelation because there's nothing startling about it.

Far far far to many words, Do you have a condensed version?

[Oakie]

Far far far to many words, Do you have a condensed version?

Other managers don't have the skills to do what I do in the same way that I don't have the skills to do what they do.

[oldrider]

Other managers don't have the skills to do what I do in the same way that I don't have the skills to do what they do.

C'mon Oakie, they obviously know all that, they are just baiting you! :lol:

Of course if I am wrong and they don't know it, whatever you say wont make any difference anyway! :oi-grr:

[Oakie]

C'mon Oakie, they obviously know all that, they are just baiting you! :lol:

Of course if I am wrong and they don't know it, whatever you say wont make any difference anyway! :oi-grr:

Yeah, I know it won't make any difference to those who genuinely think we're leeches but it might just sway some of the larger number who aren't quite sure how they feel about us.

[Headbanger]

Yeah, I know it won't make any difference to those who genuinely think we're leeches but it might just sway some of the larger number who aren't quite sure how they feel about us.

I have no opinion on the state of leechiness, Though apart from another (parallel?) layer of management I have no idea what you do from reading your post.

[Quasievil]

ahhh...for the record...to the people repping me and saying didn't get the job etc??? thats not the case...but thanks anyway :)

So you did get the job?

[Oakie]

I have no idea what you do from reading your post.

You asked:

Payroll, standard payroll processing for 75 or so employees

Recruiting, (advertising, reviewing applications, interviews, liaising with managers over short-listed applicants, reference checking, preparing contracts, organising induction and initial training)

Maintaining employee records (including issuing new contracts for people who change work patterns, pay rates etc)

‘Pastoral Care’ keeping in touch with those employees who have had problems or gone through changes to make sure they are OK. Also random chats with staff as you come across them just to keep in touch.

Employee support, (too many things to list but whatever they ask for help with … today so far, helping one with a Residency Application and advising another on how we can change her hours to accommodate external study she wants to do)

Management Support, mainly advice around how to treat different employee related situations and always with the requirements of Employment Legislation in mind.

Restructuring, changing house rostered hours to best meet increasing resident needs and managing the resulting changes

Training administration, (recording training requirements and scheduling training to ensure all staff are up to date. Ensuring individual staff training records are up to date)

Health and Safety, managing the whole HSE function proactively, not just recording accidents etc

Projects as directed by my boss or the GM. Most recently setting up an externally provided Employee Assistance Program, calculating food stock levels to accommodate a 3 day or 14 day civil defence emergency and of course a project around Swine Flu preparedness.

I also do IT support but that’s only because I know a wee bit about it … it’s not really in the job description.

[Headbanger]

You asked:



I did no such thing, Though looking at what it is you do, It must be a prime position to pressure people into sex aye? woot woot. Stroke it to the east, stroke it to the west, stroke it to the ladies that I love the best, I say stroke it.

That aside I just rang a recruitment company about a job listing, I expected to be given 1000 questions so they could put me on the books, Instead they couldn't get rid of me fast enough, even used old fashioned methods like direct answers to questions, and real information.

Must be my charm.

[Oakie]

Though looking at what it is you do, It must be a prime position to pressure people into sex aye? woot .

I don't know about pressuring people for it but about 10 years ago one young lady did offer to perfom an indecent act on me if I adjusted her pay rate up a little. She must have decided that nibbling on my knob wasn't worth the extra money though because she withdrew the offer a short time later.
I'm sure I received another offer at some other time too but I can't recall the details. Perhaps it was just wishful thinking.