U-turns in neutral

[CookMySock]

Ok I'm off to meet my Son in town, got my daughter as pillion. So we head off to his work and see him sitting in his car facing the other way and I pop it down a gear, and down another, and oh.. we're coasting in neutral. Quick check - neutral light is on.. No biggie, I'll just coast around the U turn and pull up by his drivers' window, so I fling the bike over into the U turn, aaaand oops we're bit far over, so I turn in and go to goose the throttle, aaaand varrooom! Uh oh! Neutral! BIG foot dab, brake HARD! STOP! CRUNCH! FUCK!!!

Um yeah, so don't try and to U turns coasting in neutral. It's a recipe for disaster. Broken mirror, brake lever, turn signal, nicked muffler and bar end.. and thats all the damage! I had my fairings off for maintenance.. Lucky! :whistle:

edit: yeah that's my first drop on the road.

Steve

[kunoichi]

I get nervous about U turns and have thought about just coasting in neutral, but usually in gear 1 and just hold the clutch in if i don't wanna power through...i think that's ok to do, isn't it? unless somebody else has had a bad experience doing that?

[yod]

how was your daughter?

[Ragingrob]

So you had just checked that you were in neutral, and then you forgot that you were in neutral?

Now I understand why you say it'd take a lot of concentration to type a text message and drive at the same time!

[YellowDog]

Hey Steve, yes that was a predictable outcome.

Try: First Gear with clutch slipping & gentle back brake the next time.
(after the horse has bolted and all that good stuff)

Lucky the fairings were off at the time.

Sounds like you have had a 'very cheap/excellent value' lesson:)

[CookMySock]

Yes, well it had just never occurred to me before. I was completely caught out! I had been practicing using power in U turns too - lean in, throw the bike deep into the turn and power on to hold the bike up. No one had ever told me before "dont do U turns in neutral!" so now I'm tellin ya. ;)

Daughter was fine, just landed on her butt - ow! We were both fully ATTGAT to the eyeballs, as we always are.


I get nervous about U turns and have thought about just coasting in neutral, but usually in gear 1 and just hold the clutch in if i don't wanna power through...i think that's ok to do, isn't it?Well, in a tight slow turn (like a U turn) you can tip the bike in deeper by countersteering, or pick the bike up using the same method, but you CANT pick the bike up with countersteering when you have FULL LOCK steering on. On bikes that dont HAVE much steering lock, you just use a gentle wave of throttle and that increases the centrifugal force enough to kinda throw the bike towards the outside of the turn. Of course, I couldn't do that, since I wasn't in any gear. :slap:

Yep, nasty but inexpensive lesson learned. Maybe $200

Steve

[Mom]

U-turns are easy, not complicated manouvers at all. Select a nice low gear so you have a bit of acceleration available to you, cover your clutch so you can feather the speed if you need to, tip in and go. Make sure the way is clear and tip into your turn, totally focussed on where you want to go, momentum is your best friend. You will be amazed how tightly you can turn 180 degrees, if you simply look wheere you want to go and use a bit of controlled throttle.

They are really easy, ask youngatart she will tell you :yes:

Opps! Dont you feel a real dick when you do something like that?

Glad to hear there was no damage to you, and yours (bike and daughter).

[slofox]

I coulda told you they don't work in neutral DB...just don't ask me how I know...

[Usarka]

The only time a moving motorcycle should be in neutral is when you get a falsie when making an arse of a clutchless upshift trying to drag a maccas wolfing ricer home boy off from the lights.

[bogan]

The only time a moving motorcycle should be in neutral is when you get a falsie when making an arse of a clutchless upshift trying to drag a maccas wolfing ricer home boy off from the lights.

and still beat the ricer though right?

full lock u turns are generally the way to go, specially on sports bikes which dont have the steering angle to do them any other way, and in this case the throttle is very important for staying upright, though only if youre in gear aye dangerousbastard!
Hopefully gonna be able to pully off a u-turn on my kr1 when she's finally back on the road, though ill expect itll take both lanes and most of the sidewalk to do it!

[Solly]

............Daughter was fine, just landed on her butt - ow! We were both fully ATTGAT to the eyeballs, as we always are.

You were fully WHAT???????

[BiK3RChiK]

Haha... (not laughing really!) but DB was showing me how to do u-turns a little while back while I was a pillion on his bike. He's actually quite good at them, but yer... neutral! Whoops!

Daughter has a bruise on her derriere.... She'll recover. Probably a good lesson for her, since she's itching to get her license the minute she turns 15!

[BiK3RChiK]

You were fully WHAT???????
All The Gear, All The Time

...........and much more so since it was on dark and very cold!

[scumdog]

Ok I'm off to meet my Son in town, got my daughter as pillion. So we head off to his work and see him sitting in his car facing the other way and I pop it down a gear, and down another, and oh.. we're coasting in neutral. Quick check - neutral light is on.. No biggie, I'll just coast around the U turn and pull up by his drivers' window, so I fling the bike over into the U turn, aaaand oops we're bit far over, so I turn in and go to goose the throttle, aaaand varrooom! Uh oh! Neutral! BIG foot dab, brake HARD! STOP! CRUNCH! FUCK!!!

Um yeah, so don't try and to U turns coasting in neutral. It's a recipe for disaster. Broken mirror, brake lever, turn signal, nicked muffler and bar end.. and thats all the damage! I had my fairings off for maintenance.. Lucky! :whistle:

edit: yeah that's my first drop on the road.

Steve

A relative of Frank Spencers are you??

[Headbanger]

The only time a moving motorcycle should be in neutral is when you get a falsie when making an arse of a clutchless upshift trying to drag a maccas wolfing ricer home boy off from the lights.

I like to find a false neutral when I'm coming into a tight corner at about 30km/h faster then I can possibly get around it. Luckily I also have next to no brakes and the bike has all the agility of a beached as whale.

[PrincessBandit]

Glad to hear Alex is fine! (And you too, of course) Ooops about bike; you'll have it looking like new in no time though :msn-wink: (lucky about the faring eh).

[xwhatsit]

Um yeah, so don't try and to U turns coasting in neutral. It's a recipe for disaster. Broken mirror, brake lever, turn signal, nicked muffler and bar end.. and thats all the damage! I had my fairings off for maintenance.. Lucky! :whistle:
Had a very sore foot for a long time after doing something similar. Doing a U-turn in second gear with clutch fully engaged on a cold engine (my bike does not carburate well until it's properly warm), engine coughed and farted for just a second at part throttle. I had a decent angle of lean, and the engine braking for a half second or so pulled the bike down to the ground like a stone. Put my foot out as a reflex. Didn't drop it but limped for the rest of the day :doh: Now I make sure either I'm in a low enough gear to keep the revs high or I simply slip the clutch all the way around (then precise throttle control isn't an issue).

Of course the biggest hurt was that I did it in front of three attractive international students <_<

[skidMark]

What kind of tard trys to turn any corner with having some throttle open or at least in gear...

if you hit neutral and dont wannt goto first slip your foot under and click 2nd...

only takes a fraction of a second to do so :mellow:

[KoroJ]

...........Well, in a tight slow turn (like a U turn) you can tip the bike in deeper by countersteering, or pick the bike up using the same method, but you CANT pick the bike up with countersteering when you have FULL LOCK steering on. .........

I think you'll find that countersteering is a result of the gyroscopic action of the front wheel, therefore if the wheel is hardly turning there is no countersteering. Slow U turns rely on balance, the right blend of clutch-slip / throttle / rear brake, but probably most importantly keeping your head up and looking through to where you want to go.

[skidMark]

I think you'll find that countersteering is a result of the gyroscopic action of the front wheel, therefore if the wheel is hardly turning there is no countersteering. Slow U turns rely on balance, the right blend of clutch-slip / throttle / rear brake, but probably most importantly keeping your head up and looking through to where you want to go.


you should never countersteer under about 15-20 kph... even then i only do it for quik tip in then end up slightly turning the wheel into the corner.... you can't really hold countersteer on big lean unless in real tight twisties doing 50-60 k...

or at least 100 around a 65... i find any less and i dont steer as suh, but proper ountersteering to me is fast enough that you have to keep the ountersteer on to stop the bike standing up... which obviously doesnt apply in u turns...

and DB thats pretty retarded to turn full lock when u turning, i only ever go full lock when i'm at walking pace...

anything more and theres a thing called lean

if your feet are on the pegs.... you shouldnt be turning full lock... if you are going fast enough to balance with your feet on pegs... you shouldnt be full lock... its just asking for trouble

[bogan]

think you guys may be refering to different uses of countersteering, db means the bar push type when you steer to change the bikes lean angle, whereas skidmark means race style countersteering round the whole corner due to the different widths and geometrys of tyres at max lean. Well thats my theory anyway.

Theres nothing wrong with full lock u turns, you just have to remember to lean the bike up again you give it more gas, rather than turn into the corner, means you can do far tighter u-turns.

[MarkH]

Quick check - neutral light is on.. No biggie, I'll just coast around the U turn and pull up by his drivers' window, so I fling the bike over into the U turn, aaaand oops we're bit far over, so I turn in and go to goose the throttle, aaaand varrooom! Uh oh! Neutral! BIG foot dab, brake HARD! STOP! CRUNCH! FUCK!!!

Um yeah, so don't try and to U turns coasting in neutral. It's a recipe for disaster.

I would like to thank DB here for posting that account. I would rather read about a mistake like this and remember it than to make the mistake myself. We can all learn a lot from the mistakes of others and some of us try hard to do so. Without people willing to recount the tales of things gone wrong we would have a much harder time learning lessons without the cost in repairs & bruises.

So I offer a genuine thanks to Steve!

[retro asian]

Learnt an awesome tip at NASS last wednesday.
(We were practicing doing U-turns in a 2-car park width.)

If you lean opposite to the way you are turning, it makes it easier to rescue your bike (put inside foot down) if you suddenly don't have enough power to keep upright!!

[CookMySock]

Thank you MarkH.


Learnt an awesome tip [...] lean opposite to the way you are turningYeah thats good innit. For a right-turn, I sit sideways in the seat (right thigh across seat) and it's FAR easier to look behind me during the turn. This is safer, but also it is where I should be looking during any tight turn. It allows the bike to be leaned further into the turn and more steering lock used, while keeping the bike balanced and stable at low speed.

Steve