F'wit drunks on our roads. (Is there any other kind of drunk driver?)

[scumdog]

"Twelve checkpoints were set up in Manukau and Papakura and a total of 13,593 vehicles were stopped over the two nights. Police found 216 drivers who were over the legal breath alcohol limit.

Counties Manukau road policing manager Inspector Heather Wells said it was an "unacceptable" number of drunk drivers to have on the roads.

One driver who was found to be over the limit had his vehicle taken off him but returned home and got his father's car and was stopped at another checkpoint and processed again.

He was again over the limit. He told police he was continuing to drive because he wanted to get to a kava party.

Three drivers got hold of spare keys or another car and drove after being processed. All these drivers ended up with two drink drive charges for the night, Ms Wells said.

One male passenger abused police and then tried unsuccessfully to take one of their patrol cars after his wife was taken into the "booze bus" for testing.

A 17-year-old youth was stopped for driving at 190 kmh on the southern motorway. He blew a reading of 589mcg of alcohol per litre of breath -- nearly four times the legal limit for someone under 20. He told police he was in a hurry to pick up his girlfriend."

Ah yes, brainless existence is alive and well on your roads Auckland.:mad:

Now if Sue 'I'm a bad as I look' Bradford had taken to this problem with the same zeal she has taken to the (non-existant?) smacking problem we might see some suitable punishments being handed to drunks on our road.:whistle:

Rant over.

[MIXONE]

No wonder so many cops are bald.This sort of shit would make most of them tear their hair out.


PS Totally agree re Bradturd.

[Ragingrob]

Wonder if that was a blue Subaru that got caught speeding. Was driving home last night about 11pm when the Subaru came flying past everyone as if we were still. That was just coming up to Takanini.

Dumbarses!

[RantyDave]

Now if Sue 'I'm a bad as I look' Bradford had taken to this problem with the same zeal she has taken to the (non-existant?) smacking problem we might see some suitable punishments being handed to drunks on our road.
Scummy, it's already illegal to drive drunk and we already pay people (you, actually) to enforce the law. Past this point there's not a lot a an MP can actually do. Perhaps the 300,000 angry petitioners would like to volunteer to work drink drive busts at 3am?

Dave

[FJRider]

I wonder if that 17 year old youth still has the same girlfriend, when he gets his licence back ... :pinch:

[White trash]

Less than two percent over the limit?!

C'mon Papakura! You're slipping!!!

I'm amazed it's that low actually.

[fliplid]

Seems to me that drink driving is a socially acceptable in NZ, well, in certain parts at least. There appears to be no real deterrent for it, and the "education" aspect definitely aint working! FFS, you can get a license back by coughing up the readies to some lawyer, and away you go again- see dumb advert at side of SH1 near the Penrose off ramp! That's if the "offender" even bothers with the slightly more legit method of staying on the road. Until drink driving is well and truly stamped on, and the penalties for offending are made sufficiently harsh, it will continue to be seen as a "low risk", and easy to get away with.

[scumdog]

Scummy, it's already illegal to drive drunk and we already pay people (you, actually) to enforce the law. Past this point there's not a lot a an MP can actually do. Perhaps the 300,000 angry petitioners would like to volunteer to work drink drive busts at 3am?

Dave

We catch 'em, put 'em on front of the Courts and Judges unleash a volley of wet-bus-ticket-slapping. i.e. 17 year old troublesome little cowl with breath level of 716mgm get 40 hours community work and 6 months disq.

Jail and a fine of up to $4,500 could be dished out for 1st and 2nd offenders - when was the last time THAT ever happened??

(Back in the mid 70's for the first bit - I know of three drink-drivers sent to jail and it was their first offence of any sort)

Oh, and the old man said that while it was harder to prove DIC in the 60's it was a mandatory FIVE years disqualification on conviction.

Penalties seem to have gone down, maybe too many influential people were getting caught??:whistle:

[paturoa]

Scummy, it's already illegal to drive drunk and we already pay people (you, actually) to enforce the law. Past this point there's not a lot a an MP can actually do.

Hmmm, yes it is already illegal, but for me that not the point about pollies.

So why did the 1 in 63 people do that - for the vast majority the consequence / risk trade off isn't harsh enough for them. Thats where the pollies are conspicious by their absence. Make the penalties harsh enough and the majority of it will disappear.

[ManDownUnder]

It's bloody scary! The way I view it is 1 in every 63 cars I'm sharing the road with is over the limit.

When driving along... do a quick tally of the cars around you... on any given straight on the MW that translates to 2 or three cars... right in your immediate vicinity.

I know it's not the law but I'd be perfectly happy for you to take a pair of sidecutters to their ignition keys scummy. Fuck 'em. It'll be challenging to get home, and expensive to pick the car up.

[Robbo]

And untill the Judges in our courts can grow some balls and really deal to these offenders i can't see things improving any time soon.
Maybe to confiscate and crush their vehicles, as has been suggested for boy racers, might help to get the message through to them. :mad:

[Skyryder]

Can someone tell me why it's not mandatory for a breath test if you are pulled over for a traffic offence?

Skyryder

[98tls]

Can someone tell me why it's not mandatory for a breath test if you are pulled over for a traffic offence?

Skyryder No idea why its not mandatory but a very good idea,possibly the ex hippy big brothers watching you sky is falling world will end types would find it to much to live with.

[Dave Lobster]

Can someone tell me why it's not mandatory for a breath test if you are pulled over for a traffic offence?

Skyryder

Too many pissed MPs clip the kerb when driving?

[Ixion]

98% compliance. That's as good as anything gets. Tell me any other law in the country that gets 98% compliance ?

You might be better off worrying about the estimated 10% of drivers under the influence of Certain Scheduled Substances. Who will not be picked up at all , ever.

[Marmoot]

I wonder why Crusher Collins haven't picked this up yet. Maybe we need some drunk to start shooting at officers first?

(So, we only crush cars when someone tries to kill an officer, but not when someone tries to kill other drivers by driving drunk. Hmmm.....a can of worms...)

[Grahameeboy]

"Twelve checkpoints were set up in Manukau and Papakura and a total of 13,593 vehicles were stopped over the two nights. Police found 216 drivers who were over the legal breath alcohol limit.

Counties Manukau road policing manager Inspector Heather Wells said it was an "unacceptable" number of drunk drivers to have on the roads.

One driver who was found to be over the limit had his vehicle taken off him but returned home and got his father's car and was stopped at another checkpoint and processed again.

He was again over the limit. He told police he was continuing to drive because he wanted to get to a kava party.

Three drivers got hold of spare keys or another car and drove after being processed. All these drivers ended up with two drink drive charges for the night, Ms Wells said.

One male passenger abused police and then tried unsuccessfully to take one of their patrol cars after his wife was taken into the "booze bus" for testing.

A 17-year-old youth was stopped for driving at 190 kmh on the southern motorway. He blew a reading of 589mcg of alcohol per litre of breath -- nearly four times the legal limit for someone under 20. He told police he was in a hurry to pick up his girlfriend."

Ah yes, brainless existence is alive and well on your roads Auckland.:mad:

Now if Sue 'I'm a bad as I look' Bradford had taken to this problem with the same zeal she has taken to the (non-existant?) smacking problem we might see some suitable punishments being handed to drunks on our road.:whistle:

Rant over.

So why not do daytime checks...more cars on road....

[James Deuce]

Jail and a fine of up to $4,500 could be dished out for 1st and 2nd offenders - when was the last time THAT ever happened??



You;d have to be a cop for that to happen to you.

[Laava]

You;d have to be a cop for that to happen to you.
We had one up here about6yrs ago in Dargaville court. 1st offence, and he got jailtime. Actually it was national news at the time.
Had a drunk driver come down my drive way[long R.O.W] on friday night and turn around crashing into my ute. Hit the corner of the flatdeck and ripped a big gash in her front guard and crumpled it to buggery. Drove halfway up the drive and turned across into the neighbours R.O.W. Did a hundred point turn scratching the hell out of both sides of her car[Straight as 96 Accord up till then!] and backing into a tree and forward into a fence until she got round and then proceeded to drive over their retaining wall so both her wheels were in mid air. In fact one of her wheels was crushing the tin roof of their dog kennel with dog still inside. She obviously tried to back off then as there was burnt rubber everywhere. So she hopped into the back seat and went to sleep. No idea when this happened but none of us[4 houses] heard anything! 6 o'clock in the morning she knocks on the neighbours door freezing cold and asks for a ride home which she got. When the neighbour dragged me over there at about 9 we could see the trail of carnage! This included her wheel tracks across my lawn where she obviously just missed my house!
Sure enough, next thing, as I'm back home and the neighbour has gone out, we hear revving and go look to see what I can only describe as a white trash retard and her similar male friend trying to drive off the retaining wall. Which they are impaled on and the wheels are in the air. So we have a good laugh before going over to bum them out totally. I decide not to call the cops at that stage as she starts saying she wasn't the driver, and it seems pointless.
I have removed the B from the plate to protect the innocent!

[scumdog]

Sure enough, next thing, as I'm back home and the neighbour has gone out, we hear revving and go look to see what I can only describe as a white trash retard and her similar male friend trying to drive off the retaining wall. Which they are impaled on and the wheels are in the air. So we have a good laugh before going over to bum them out totally. I decide not to call the cops at that stage as she starts saying she wasn't the driver, and it seems pointless.
I have removed the B from the plate to protect the innocent!

Meh, shoulda called the cops, it would just complete her misery:2thumbsup

[c4.]

My god will someone please think of the (dog) children.
Seriously, if it was my hound that she had nearly squashed, I would not be very samarterian on her ass.:spanking:

[Max Preload]

One driver who was found to be over the limit had his vehicle taken off him but returned home and got his father's car and was stopped at another checkpoint and processed again.

He was again over the limit. He told police he was continuing to drive because he wanted to get to a kava party.

More stereotypes reinforcing themselves?

[short-circuit]

Scummy, it's already illegal to drive drunk and we already pay people (you, actually) to enforce the law. Past this point there's not a lot a an MP can actually do. Perhaps the 300,000 angry petitioners would like to volunteer to work drink drive busts at 3am?

Dave

Precisely. What the fuck's New Zealand's drunk driving problems got to do with Sue Bradford?

[scumdog]

Precisely. What the fuck's New Zealand's drunk driving problems got to do with Sue Bradford?

She drove me to drink....

[Mom]

I am going to take the Ixion stance on this. I get really pissed off when I see newspaper articles like the one quoted here. Several thousand cars stopped and only a very small percentage of drivers over limit. I think the message is pretty clear to most of us, dont bloody drink and drive. I have said it before, but will state it again here, I think we should have a zero limit for blood/breath alcohol. Seriously I do. No grey areas then, you drink, you dont drive.

I actually think that will take a few more drinking drivers off our roads, right now it is something of a lottery attempting to figure out if you might be a little over. Zero limit means there is nothing to be confused about at all.

The fact that a small minority continue to flaunt this basic common sense law around drink driving can not be legislated for, and can only be policed the way it is now. Tough, to the police that have that job, they chose their career path afterall. You can not legislate against dickheads.

I still think that a bit more of a positive spin on the numbers of drivers that are checked and found NOT to have been drinking would be a worthy message to send out too.

[gijoe1313]

Well, last two nights I been out and abouts coming down Mahia rd in Te Manurewa, usual police check point. First night I rock up, nice young constable sees me on my iron and steed and waves me through without checking my breath - convenient for me and I had a quick convo with him about how completely and utterly insane it would be for a biker to drink and ride.

Second night, had a young lady constable who probably needed a lesson in public relations, when I rocked up on my two stroker smoker, she snarls "So how am I gonna do this then?"

I pause, umpteen cars backed up behind me ... so I slowly and methodically remove my glubs, take off helmet ... and she was about to pounce on me with her lekky alcamahol testerer ... and realised I had a balaclave on ... which I removed as well. Minutes ticked by, stated my given name and residential abode and all was tickety boo. Repeated steps to get all my gear on and away I pootled ...

Good to see the police doing as they should, I recall last time when they blitzed Souf'aucklund for two weeks like this, crime dropped appreciably. Keep it up the thin blue line! :yes:

[short-circuit]

She drove me to drink....

She only said you can't bash your kids....you still get to Tazer brown people and elderly drivers.

In fact, if you can spot her at a future peaceful protest march you could probably crush her skull with your truncheon.

[idb]

So...how was the NZ blood-alcohol limit determined?

[short-circuit]

So...how was the NZ blood-alcohol limit determined?

It was decided over a few quiets

[CookMySock]

You might be better off worrying about the estimated 10% of drivers under the influence of Certain Scheduled Substances. Who will not be picked up at all , ever.Alcohol insulates you, and dulls your senses to the point where you are continuously phasing out and incapable of seeing anything at all, which is why it's so dangerous.

Drugs like weed actually achieve the opposite, or else they make it abundantly clear you should not be doing it, so they TEND to be self-regulating.

Of course, if you are fully fucked-up to the eyeballs, it doesn't matter what you are on, it's dangerous. It is more likely you will be sitting it out on the side of the road, or else travelling wide-eyed at 30km/hr, than doing 190.


"So how am I gonna do this then?"Can't she just point the unit into your visor opening? Thats what was done for me.

Steve

[TimeOut]

She drove me to drink....

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::2thumbsup


She only said you can't bash your kids....you still get to Tazer brown people and elderly drivers.

In fact, if you can spot her at a future peaceful protest march you could probably crush her skull with your truncheon.

Na mate they still bash their kids, you just can't discipline them!

[scumdog]

Can't she just point the unit into your visor opening? Thats what was done for me.

Steve

Yup, had it done to me (no, not every cop recognises me) and in turn I use that method when working.

[RantyDave]

i.e. 17 year old troublesome little cowl with breath level of 716mgm get 40 hours community work and 6 months disq.
Wow, what a pain in the arse. I had always taken it as read that should I be caught drink driving, particularly if it's ... fuck, is that really nearly ten times the limit? For over 20's. Sheeeett, that's heaps. HEAPS. I don't think I'd be able to get in the car with that much in me.

Shit! Crush the car.

Dave

[MIXONE]

She only said you can't bash your kids....you still get to Tazer brown people and elderly drivers.

In fact, if you can spot her at a future peaceful protest march you could probably crush her skull with your truncheon.

Where does the line start?

[idb]

Drinking helps me relax and the only thing I can actually remember my driving instructor telling me is to relax...therefore...

[98tls]

Drinking helps me relax and the only thing I can actually remember my driving instructor telling me is to relax...therefore... Reminds me of a conversation i had with a 34 year old barmaid when i was 18.:pinch:

[Mom]

Reminds me of a conversation i had with a 34 year old barmaid when i was 18.:pinch:

Just hold this, nothing will happen, I promise?

[scumdog]

Wow, what a pain in the arse. I had always taken it as read that should I be caught drink driving, particularly if it's ... fuck, is that really nearly ten times the limit? For over 20's. Sheeeett, that's heaps. HEAPS. I don't think I'd be able to get in the car with that much in me.

Shit! Crush the car.

Dave

Limit for under 20 is 150, it's still way over though eh!

[Genestho]

Scummy, it's already illegal to drive drunk and we already pay people (you, actually) to enforce the law. Past this point there's not a lot a an MP can actually do. Perhaps the 300,000 angry petitioners would like to volunteer to work drink drive busts at 3am?

Dave

Nah, drink driving is not illegal, but it is illegal over the current 0.08 Blood Alcohol Limit.
Nobody can work out what their limit is, at any given time..IMHO I can't understand the point of lowering the limit to 0.05, better than nothing - some would say:wacko:

We are waiting for thing's down in Welly to come out of the woodwork, re Interlocking Devices and Rehabilitation, whether recidivism is being targeted along with lowering the limit....good thing's take time - apparently. unless it's really important:whistle:.

However if the outcomes from welly are pisspour and merely tentative, there's something on the drawing board between a "few" of us drink drive "victims/survivors". B.A.D.D is not organising it, but we will help with networking.

Hope to see it in action by the end of the year :whistle:
The public will have a chance to get in behind.

We'll get this out there as far and wide as we can, we'll make sure the wording is not ambiguous.

Scummy, are you saying, you think Sue could do with a good corrective tap on the bum?:lol:

I feel sorry for you dude's Scummy, I now know what you have to put up with when you scrape dead bodies and wreckage off the roads, or locate limbs for survivors, listening to children screaming, smelling the alcohol.

It must be frustrating for you to do your job and feel let down.

Big up's, and thanks for doing your best for the community.:2thumbsup

[Marmoot]

So...how was the NZ blood-alcohol limit determined?

the limit should be high enough to generate revenue but low enough that the drunk lawmakers shouldn't get caught in it.

[PrincessBandit]

It's bloody scary! The way I view it is 1 in every 63 cars I'm sharing the road with is over the limit.


I will try not to be freaked out by that equation when I'm next out and about on the roads of South Auckland!


Well, last two nights I been out and abouts coming down Mahia rd in Te Manurewa, usual police check point. First night I rock up, nice young constable sees me on my iron and steed and waves me through without checking my breath - convenient for me and I had a quick convo with him about how completely and utterly insane it would be for a biker to drink and ride.

Second night, had a young lady constable who probably needed a lesson in public relations, when I rocked up on my two stroker smoker, she snarls "So how am I gonna do this then?"

I pause, umpteen cars backed up behind me ... so I slowly and methodically remove my glubs, take off helmet ... and she was about to pounce on me with her lekky alcamahol testerer ... and realised I had a balaclave on ... which I removed as well. Minutes ticked by, stated my given name and residential abode and all was tickety boo. Repeated steps to get all my gear on and away I pootled ...


:lol: would love to have seen that!
I've never been through a breath check point on the bike before, now I know what to do hehehehehe.

[Edbear]

She drove me to drink....

In the Landau...?

[xwhatsit]

It is more likely you will be sitting it out on the side of the road, or else travelling wide-eyed at 30km/hr, than doing 190.
Heheh. Or playing Playstation thinking you're doing the real thing :zzzz:


I got breathalysed a few nights in one week but that was months ago. Seems they left Mangere Bridge off the hook this time around. We must've redeemed ourselves :beer:

They had a checkpoint last year, it was set up in Onehunga onramp going south. The first night I got signalled to do the check... same deal as GiJoe1313, remove glubs, remove helmet, remove scarf, occifer looking impatient, state name and address, slowly put gear back on (it were cold!) and on my way. Next night (two nights in a row I think), same occifer, I get halfway through taking my helmet off and then he remembers and tells me to do it back up and get on my way :whistle:

Next week they had another checkpoint, same occifer again, this time he just waved me straight through :lol:

[scumdog]

:lol: would love to have seen that!
I've never been through a breath check point on the bike before, now I know what to do hehehehehe.

The pissed off drivers waiting behind you won't see the funny side of that..:oi-grr:

[RantyDave]

We are waiting for thing's down in Welly to come out of the woodwork, re Interlocking Devices
So, I spent a day with a mate of a mate in the states a few months back. He had an interlock in his car and had to breathe into it every ... half hour or so? Something like that. He had, IIRC, three DUI convictions and said the interlock, and I quote:

Cured me of DUI
So, yeah, bring that shit on - we'll have those.

Dave

[peasea]

We catch 'em, put 'em on front of the Courts and Judges unleash a volley of wet-bus-ticket-slapping. i.e. 17 year old troublesome little cowl with breath level of 716mgm get 40 hours community work and 6 months disq.

Jail and a fine of up to $4,500 could be dished out for 1st and 2nd offenders - when was the last time THAT ever happened??

(Back in the mid 70's for the first bit - I know of three drink-drivers sent to jail and it was their first offence of any sort)

Oh, and the old man said that while it was harder to prove DIC in the 60's it was a mandatory FIVE years disqualification on conviction.

Penalties seem to have gone down, maybe too many influential people were getting caught??:whistle:

Oh, ho, ho...... any police on that list? :whistle:

You do have to wonder though; the penalties these days are not as tough as I got for a first offence back in 1980. $400 and 12 months and I was only just over the limit. That was a lot of hay back then and most first offenedrs only get six months these days. (And no, I didn't give the cop any lip.)

Go figure; maybe the judges are protecting themselves......

[Genestho]

So, I spent a day with a mate of a mate in the states a few months back. He had an interlock in his car and had to breathe into it every ... half hour or so? Something like that. He had, IIRC, three DUI convictions and said the interlock, and I quote:

So, yeah, bring that shit on - we'll have those.

Dave

Wow interesting, a few of us have conducted quite a bit of research into this, we found mostly pro's over con's, good to hear specific feedback like that dude. Cheers. What state, is your friend in over there?

From what I hear the Interlocks sound like they will be going ahead here in NZ, as part "penalty" (if you like)

I'll wait for the official announcement, AND at what point of conviction/s they'll be introduced, whether mandatory alcoholism assessment and rehabilitation will be part and parcel.

It'll be a little costly, but not as costly as smashes, or deaths caused by drink driving, there'll be a bit of balking but only by the recidivist offenders, it should only affect a smallish minority, and, the way it's "done" overseas, is user pays installation and maintenance.

So, we shall see! Worth a crack anyway Nige!

[Genestho]

Oh, ho, ho...... any police on that list? :whistle:

You do have to wonder though; the penalties these days are not as tough as I got for a first offence back in 1980. $400 and 12 months and I was only just over the limit. That was a lot of hay back then and most first offenedrs only get six months these days. (And no, I didn't give the cop any lip.)

Go figure; maybe the judges are protecting themselves......

Yea you do have to wonder eh?
No lip? True? hehe.

[McWild]

At least we can take some solace in knowing that that 17 year old's insurance is fucked here on in.

Actually scratch that, third party isn't compulsory. So now we probably just gained another uninsured driver.

...wow this thread just got even more depressing.

[peasea]

Yea you do have to wonder eh?
No lip? True? hehe.

It' true. I remember being arrested, he was really cool about it. I wasn't speeding or doing anything stupid, just had a couple o' beers too many. He got back what he gave. I had a blood test back at Pearce (sp) House in Welly, thought I'd pass actually, but there you go...........

[scumdog]

... thought I'd pass actually, but there you go...........

Ah, how many times have I heard THAT??:wacko::pinch:

[Genestho]

For those interested, I recieved an email today from MOT's senior adviser.

" The Minister considered the (Interlock) report and asked a few questions which I have provided the answers for. He is now considering the answers and hopefully his office will get back to me next week with the green light to go ahead.
I’ll let you know when I hear more."

[ynot slow]

March 2000 had a few beers after work no tea,driving out of carpark it 3.45am Saturday flashing lights,nice cops ask reason for driving?answer too pissed to walk.

Blew 828mg in station(2nd test),license taken on the spot,offered to give me ride home,and drop my car off as well 3.5km from town,moral of story there was be humorous and calm and they look after you.

Next thing is court time $800 plus costs$130 and 6 mth disq,then another $550 for work license.Worked out taxi costs were $10-12 at time,so was basically 2 weeks pay for fine those days.

Annoying when on highway patrol last night under 20 blew similar(but his level was 150 not 400mg) and got 80hours and 6 months.Where is deterent there.

[Genestho]

With all due respect to officers down in the coal face, here's a few observations I'd make about youth.

Alot of youth are only interested in a few things:
Sex, Parties and associated dramas with youthlifestyle.

Not true in all cases, I've met some smart, responsible teenagers.

We have to realise that youth, probably don't watch the news, or keep upto date with current affairs, have any idea what a "150" limit is, nor how easy it is to breach that limit. We have to actually break into that world.


Here's what I don't understand, we educate youth through SADD - Don't Drink and Drive, but then we leave them a limit.
Don't and Drive in the class, but on the roads you can have little bit ...you just don't know what that little bit is.

Which then becomes undefinable and uncomprehendable to them.
It took me a bit to get my head around.

I don't have a problem with "Don't and Drive in the class", but why leave them a limit on the roads, they can't guage, adults can't, so why expect youth?

It would make sense to me, up the drinking age, to zero the youth limit, then this would make nothing to understand, you just don't do it.
(Yes some will get through the cracks on both issues, you won't catch everyone)


I'd go as far, as to suggest, that 3.3 million we spend on anti dd advertising, that may get attention the first few times, eventually fades on the radar months after they're played...(ask any "man" on the street)

-Would be best spent getting SADD into schools, in school hours, somehow accrediting it to NZQA, and breaking into their worlds, so they understand, consequences, limits, and penalties. Thus building change in generational thinking, sending them off with complete understanding!

I presented a video, and speech a few months back, and had the teens staring with big eyes, and there were tears, AND THEN they came out and looked at the bikes, there was alot of eff words, and hands clasped over heads. I didn't expect that, but I'm glad...that was a bunch of youth that understood the carnage.

Currently SADD rep's have to work in lunch hours and after school, at a time they're trying to study for NCEA quals. (that's a schooling issue from what I understand - not a Roadsafety issue)

One of our friend's, of whom was killed in our accident, her daughter is all but running SADD in her school. I've told her she needs to concentrate on NCEA, that is what will help her future, but her passion is also to prevent this happening to other families.

I mean how serious are we, we seem concerned every couple of months in the media, prosecution numbers are trotted out "EDUCATION AND ENFORCEMENT JUST NOT GETTING THROUGH" - but it doesn't relate to what we're doing to change things, the deterrents and education aren't able to reflect the concern shown.

The youth limit undermines the youth education.

[davereid]

" The Minister considered the (Interlock) report and asked a few questions which I have provided the answers for. He is now considering the answers and hopefully his office will get back to me next week with the green light to go ahead."

About a year ago my company had some dealings with a K. Maciver from Land Transport regarding manufacturing these interlocks locally if they ever became a requirement.

A friendly lady, but we sort of got fobbed off - its early days, write back later etc etc.

I can't remember exactly what happened, but I formed the opinion that

(a) There were no specification for what they wanted, thus making it impossible for a New Zealand manufacturer to offer a compliant product.
(b) Nothing was ever going to happen anyway.
(c) if it ever did, a device was going to be purchased from overseas so everyone could visit the factory on a fact-finding mission, and
(d) Industrial Levin was not on the places to visit list.

Maybe things are moving again ?

[Genestho]

Interesting! Thanks!

That's the lady I've had alot of contact with, like you say, nice lady, tried to fob me off too, until I'd told her a couple of things, in a nice way<_<

I'd heard through an MTA rep that there were enquiries run past there too, so I knew things were rumbling in the background.

They've been doing a fact finding mission, to prepare the report - ready for the Minister, along side some cited research myself and a few others had submitted.

So I wasn't too worried that thing's wern't moving along in that department.

Regarding specs, and implementation.

As a fellow lobbyist says, when you lobby for a specific thing, and you leave it in the hands of Govt, things get a little twisted, we need to be involved right to the bitter end. I hope they continue to listen!

Sounds like they didn't, but did they ever get back to you?

I wonder if there are reports on outsourcing and manufacturing in NZ...you'd think for a variety of reasons, manufacturing in NZ would be the go.

[Ixion]

About a year ago my company had some dealings with a K. Maciver from Land Transport regarding manufacturing these interlocks locally if they ever became a requirement.

A friendly lady, but we sort of got fobbed off - its early days, write back later etc etc.

I can't remember exactly what happened, but I formed the opinion that

(a) There were no specification for what they wanted, thus making it impossible for a New Zealand manufacturer to offer a compliant product.
(b) Nothing was ever going to happen anyway.
(c) if it ever did, a device was going to be purchased from overseas so everyone could visit the factory on a fact-finding mission, and
(d) Industrial Levin was not on the places to visit list.

Maybe things are moving again ?

I am interested (and somewhat perplexed) how such devices are to work.

Most (if not all) recidivist drink drivers will be alcoholics. Now, for an alcoholic (one who has not managed to make the break through to total abstention) , there is no decision as to whether to drink or not .He (or she) must have drink and will have drink.

So the interlock will present no inhibitory factor. It will not make the person whose car it is fitted to NOT drink. The only way it can work is to prevent the person being able to start or drive the car.

Passing by such obvious evasion methods as having a friend blow into it, or using canned air (though I fail to see how the device can cope with such basic circumvention), how is it to stop the vehicle being used?

On a modern car (or bike), prhaps. They have computers and such like.

But my Pajero is simple. Points, coil, battery. You can fit every fancy device under the sun. All I need do is diconnect the wire at the ignition coil. Connect a short length of wire from that terminal to the battery. The car will start (I might need one more length of wire, from battery to starter solenoid). And it's manual transmission , so forget about doing clever dickery with the auto transmission interlocks. So likewise, are most of my bikes.

You could maybe do something with an electro-hydraulic valve in the brake circuit that locked the brakes on. But such a device would have to fail into the locked on position (since otherwise it could be negated just by cutting the wire to it). So, if it failed whilst the vehicle was in motion, the brakes would immediately lock up and could not be released (and bear in mind it might not be the drink driver driving at the time!). You would need to be bloody certain that it was not going to fail.

I think this is another example of legislation that is only effective with regard to the people who pose no need for it. The sober, non-alcoholic legislators think "oh, yes, that would stop me drinking to excess. And if I did slip up and have one to many , I would not be able to start the car, so that would be good. Problem solved". But people who think like that are no problem anyway.

The problem is the devious folk who would think (if they did think the matter through, which they don't of course), "Well, I must have drink. And once I have it, I will end up drunk. But I must have transport. So how can I disable this stupid thing they have fitted to my car?" .

Show me your interlocks. And give me a day. I bet I can get round them .

I sympathise, and empathise, with the intention. Which is entirely laudable and noble. I just don't see that it will work

[Genestho]

Shit, I'm having a coffee, after packing the car before I head off the weekend, and I have to read this LMAO.

Firstly, Thankyou Ixion, that's fine, and I see what you're saying.

This is really a rather complex subject, an answer to those questions is just as complex to speal..as you can gather.

The only answer to all of those questions, is pull together the cited research I have with highlights that address these concerns, which is what I tried to do for MOT.

It is at this point, that the interest was peaked enough for them to do their fact finding mission to present a report to the minister!

There a few other specific initiatives, regarding penalties and rehab, which MUST be addressed for this to work at its best.

The bottom line is it cured 60-80% of recidivism, paired with specific rehab, and monitoring, in studies conducted out of Aus, Canada (eh?) Sweden and the US.

What I can do - if you want to understand more, is after my weekend away (I really should be gone already!) pull out the research and point out specific answers to your questions, as cited by the research!

In two years of looking into this, I don't see at this point any other option, around the world that is researched and proven effective, apart from comments thrown round, which aren't condusive, or available, nor ever will be.

So, it's worth a crack nige!

[Drew]

The piss weak penalties, are just another product of the bleeding heart, cant take away peoples rights brigade.

A drivers licence is not a right, but a privilage. A comodoty, afforded to those who prove themselves worthy. Be flippant with it, and have it actually cost something. If people lose their joobs, (I did for demerit points loss of licence), so fuckin be it.

Taking responsibilty for action is no longer common place.

[davereid]

I am interested (and somewhat perplexed) how such devices are to work.

Passing by such obvious evasion methods as having a friend blow into it, or using canned air (though I fail to see how the device can cope with such basic circumvention), how is it to stop the vehicle being used?

Show me your interlocks. And give me a day. I bet I can get round them .


The easiest tampering is merely to drive another car. Get a $200 wreck and just ignore the law.

We did some very preliminary design work, and we were sure that any mechanically competent person would be able to bypass virtually any system that we could install. However, we were also sure we could detect any tampering.

We didnt seriously consider stopping a car - just inhibiting starting, as we didnt want to be blamed for a car cutting out while passing a truck, or half way over a railway crossing.

Some of the ideas we came up with were..

Multiple sensors - test for alcohol, test air temperature and test carbon dioxide to ensure a live human was performing the test.

Random repeats of the test while car is being driven, which if failed would be logged, and possibly reported via GPRS or similar.

We looked at ways of detecting a tamper. It seemed pretty easy to detect that a vehicle has started in spite of a test being failed or not made at all.

We also considered logging all driver behavior - rpm, speed, etc etc and making it available as a download for enforcement, or automatically reported via GPRS.

Of course, all this costs money, and NZ being an egalitarian society, any system we produced would have to be cheap, so the poorest alcoholic could afford one, not just the rich drunks.

Otherwise it would soon become a system to allow the rich to keep driving, while the poor walked.

[Ixion]

The easiest tampering is merely to drive another car. Get a $200 wreck and just ignore the law.

yes. Obvious, and easy. Depends on the penalty for being caught in a car without the test gizmo of course. if it's confiscation then a $200 clunker sorts it. Jail time, trickier.
We did some very preliminary design work, and we were sure that any mechanically competent person would be able to bypass virtually any system that we could install. However, we were also sure we could detect any tampering.

Depends on the age of the vehicle. You wouldn't need to tamper with the gizmo, just bypass it. At worst, second coil somewhere and hot wire to the battery (or another battery) [QUOTE] We didnt seriously consider stopping a car - just inhibiting starting, as we didnt want to be blamed for a car cutting out while passing a truck, or half way over a railway crossing.

Some of the ideas we came up with were..

Multiple sensors - test for alcohol, test air temperature and test carbon dioxide to ensure a live human was performing the test.

How long before someone starts selling canned breath. With an outlet heater
Random repeats of the test while car is being driven, which if failed would be logged, and possibly reported via GPRS or similar.

"Lean over and blow in here darling, this stupid gadget wants another sample and I'm too busy driving
We looked at ways of detecting a tamper. It seemed pretty easy to detect that a vehicle has started in spite of a test being failed or not made at all.

That assumes of course that no other (non interlocked) driver uses the vehicle. Even apart from the family/friends thing, what about service men? Even detecting starting wouldn't be THAT easy if one was determined. Disconnect normal feed from alternator (reconnect to battery via new feed). Disconnect electrical water temp gauge. Disconnect oil pressure light feed. That's about it,unless you get into mechanical measurement (eg oil pressure).
We also considered logging all driver behavior - rpm, speed, etc etc and making it available as a download for enforcement, or automatically reported via GPRS.

Of course, all this costs money, and NZ being an egalitarian society, any system we produced would have to be cheap, so the poorest alcoholic could afford one, not just the rich drunks.

Otherwise it would soon become a system to allow the rich to keep driving, while the poor walked.Seems it would be a lot simpler just to say "Mr Blogs you've been done X times for DIC. This court reckons you're an alcoholic, so you are forbidden to drive or hold a license until someone like the Sallies certifies you're dried out and permanently on the wagon"

[davereid]

Seems it would be a lot simpler just to say "Mr Blogs you've been done X times for DIC. This court reckons you're an alcoholic, so you are forbidden to drive or hold a license until someone like the Sallies certifies you're dried out and permanently on the wagon"

Yep, the best way IMHO is to simply ban the recidivist drink driver, and lock him up if you catch him.

You should become an electronics designer - some cunning plans there for defeating a system !

We only spent a few hours on it, just so we were on-the-case if we ever heard back from the men at the ministry.

Most effeorts to defeat a system of are easy to spot - the removal of a monitoring wire from a coil, temperature or oil sensor would be very difficult to do without being detected by the monitoring device. Plus, its not too tricky to add sensors looking at system voltage - ie is the alternator running, are the brakes being used etc.

Plus the easiest of them all, a Tapley meter built into the device that simply detects vehicle acceleration or deceleration.

[Ixion]

.. Most effeorts to defeat a system of are easy to spot - the removal of a monitoring wire from a coil, temperature or oil sensor would be very difficult to do without being detected by the monitoring device. Plus, its not too tricky to add sensors looking at system voltage - ie is the alternator running, are the brakes being used etc.

Plus the easiest of them all, a Tapley meter built into the device that simply detects vehicle acceleration or deceleration.



Not really. Just need a spare coil,sensor etc. Leave the originals disconnected from the engine , just sitting there with the monitor wires attached. And a wire from the disconnected unit to earth. So long as earth continuity is maintained, sensor doesn't know its no longer screwed into the engine block.Fit new units and away you go.

Spare battery takes care of your monitoring the system voltage. Your monitor connected to original battery- that's disconnected from everything else. Gee, it's always just a constant voltage. No current in no current out. Guess the suspect isn't using the vehicle. (actually the original battery /sensors etc and monitor could be left behind in the gargre - except that you'd want the monitor in the car to show to Mr Plod when he sees the "must have interlock" endorsement on your licence)

New spare battery - connected to everything else. Anything electrical is easy to fool. Dunno how to fool a tapley meter though. Unless one mounted it in a gimbal of some sort that isolated the gadget from vehicle acceleration. Could probably do that with a bit of thought.

[Ixion]

Actually, there is an even easier way to fool an interlock. Interlock is fitted to your car. You have another car. Now, the only danger in this is that you get stopped and the cop sees the "Must have interlock fitted to car" endorsement on your licence. So he says "show me this interlock". Cops ain't engineers. All you need is a fake interlock fitted. Make it look like the real one , but does nothing. He sees interlock, all happy. Business opportunity there , make fake interlocks. Could be a good market for them.

of course, if you get picked up for DIC , and they find the fake you're in trouble. But in that event the scheme has failed anyway, hasn't it?

[RantyDave]

Passing by such obvious evasion methods as having a friend blow into it, or using canned air (though I fail to see how the device can cope with such basic circumvention), how is it to stop the vehicle being used?
From what I remember, this was only half the point. The device acts as an interlock for starting only - once the car is going, it's going and won't conk out in the middle of nowhere. We were in Colorado so I can see why they set it up like this. Man we were with had been made late for work a couple of times by the interlock - despite much drinking of water and huffing of fresh air so....

The other half is that it logs it's measurements and you have to take it to the police station every three months or so to have it's brain analysed. So if you blow two in a row "fuck me, you are pissed out of your mind" then one "straight as an arrow" it's going to stick out like a sore thumb and you can expect some questions.

Also, if there's someone there who's straight, then they can drive, eh?

Buying a clunker and driving around in that? I imagine one gets a very very limited license i.e. to drive the interlocked car only. If you get caught or crash then I suspect you go straight to jail and do not collect two hundred pounds. Obviously this is still an enforcement issue.

It's not perfect but mate of mate was pretty embarrassed about the whole thing, as you would be, and the presence of the interlock means he more or less has to discuss his DUI history with anyone who even gets into the car. I think this would probably sort out all but the very worst offenders ... for whom there may actually be no hope and whose offending is a sign of something rather more serious. They should still be off the road.

Dave

[Genestho]

Many of the stories of tampering with and/or misuse of alcohol interlocks have become sensationalized and have become the substance of “urban myths”.

Experience with interlock programs over the past decade has served to help identify and resolve problem areas.

Technological innovations over this period of time have successfully dealt with most of the concerns, resulting in a reliable and accurate device that does exactly what is intended – prevent persons impaired by alcohol from operating the vehicle.

Ignition interlock devices employ one of two types of alcohol detection methods: semiconductor sensing; or electrochemical (fuel cell) sensing.

Semiconductor sensing
The major advantages of this method of alcohol detection are its accuracy, relatively low price, and durability.

There are two primary disadvantages of this method. First, it requires frequent calibration. This means that its stability of measurement over time may vary and, hence, it must be serviced at regular and frequent intervals.

Second, the semiconductor sensor is not specific to alcohol -- i.e., it responds to other combustible gases and vapors, most notably cigarette smoke and vehicle exhaust. As a consequence, it can, on occasion, give a positive reading even when the individual has not consumed alcohol. For the driver using an interlock with this type of sensor, a false positive reading can prevent legitimate use of the vehicle. For program administrators, this renders it impossible to determine whether low readings are the result of alcohol consumption by the driver or other volatile substances in the atmosphere.

Electrochemical (fuel cell) sensing
The electrochemical (fuel cell) method of alcohol detection utilizes a small device to convert alcohol and oxygen into an electrical current. The current generated is proportional to the concentration of alcohol in the breath sample. This technology is used in a variety of roadside screening devices, evidential breath test instruments, and passive sensors. Fuel cell-based devices are typically more expensive than semiconductor devices but they have two major advantages.

First, they are specific to alcohol. They do not respond to organic hydrocarbon solvents, so positive results can only occur if alcohol is in the sample. This eliminates the nuisance of unjustified (i.e., false positive) ignition lock-outs due to the presence of other volatile substances such as cigarette smoke and vehicle exhaust. This gives program administrators confidence that positive readings are the result of alcohol in the breath of drivers.

Fuel cell-based devices also have greater stability in calibration. This provides greater accuracy over the long term and eliminates the need for frequent calibration.

Data recorder.
A key feature for preventing tampering and circumvention is the inclusion of a data recorder as an integral part of the interlock device. The primary purpose of the data recorder is to provide program monitors (judicial or licensing authorities) with a record of all uses of the device, including attempts to tamper with, or circumvent, its function. Information about all attempts to start the vehicle (including the results of breath tests) and attempts to disconnect the interlock are recorded electronically.
In addition, the recording of these events provides program monitors with documentation of program violations so that appropriate action can be taken.

[Genestho]

Data logging continued...

Sensors.
Temperature and/or pressure sensors are incorporated as a means to detect and prevent the use of samples that have been stored (e.g., in a balloon), filtered, or introduced by a mechanical device. All breath samples that are rejected by these sensors are recorded on the data logger.

Running retests.
Many alcohol interlock devices require repeated breath tests -- "running retests" -- on a random interval after the vehicle has been successfully started. The purpose of these "running retests" is actually threefold: (1) to prevent the possibility of a bystander providing an alcohol-free breath sample that would allow a driver with a high BAC to operate the vehicle; (2) to detect drivers whose BAC is still in the ascending phase and has risen beyond the setpoint after the vehicle was originally started; and (3) to prevent drivers from leaving the vehicle idling while they drink.

Failing to provide a running retest within the time allowed can result in a warning to the driver (either auditory or visual) or an alarm may be activated. After the warning, if a sample is not provided or if the vehicle is not stopped, the driver can be required to report immediately to the service centre or program manager. Any retest that registers a BAC in excess of the setpoint can lead to any of a number of consequences. For example, the interlock device can merely warn the driver of the failure and require the user to report to the program manager and service technician. Appropriate action would then be taken against the offender. Failure to report to the service centre within a specified period can result in the interlock preventing any further use of the vehicle. A failed retest might also activate an alarm – lights flashing, horn activated, or internal alarm – prompting the driver to discontinue driving. In no instance would the interlock device stop the engine so as to create a traffic hazard.

Driver recognition systems. As a means to prevent bystanders from providing an alcohol-free breath sample, some interlock systems have incorporated features such as “hum-tone” recognition and breath-pulse codes. “Hum-tone” recognition requires the driver to hum for a period of time while providing a breath sample. This requires some practice and repeated unsuccessful attempts by an inexperienced individual would result in a lockout situation. This system also prevents attempts to introduce a bogus (i.e., non-human) or filtered air sample.

[Genestho]

To a large extent this prevents bogus and bystander samples and can be used to identify the driver in cases where other people operate the same vehicle.

Sealed wiring.

Protection against tampering is generally provided by sealing the wiring and circuits in a manner that renders it easy to detect any attempt to alter it.

♦ False positives. The most common problem reported by interlock participants is trouble starting the vehicle when they were “sober” Some of these problems were undoubtedly true “false positives” as a result of the interlock device responding to other substances. The newer devices using fuel cell technology for alcohol detection virtually eliminate this problem.


**Interlocks were never intended as a treatment for alcohol abuse; therefore, it should not be expected that installation and use of an interlock device will, by itself, prompt a change in the extent of alcohol consumption.

The period of interlock installation could, however, be used to greater advantage by encouraging or compelling simultaneous participation in a rehabilitation program to deal with the problem that results in the DWI offence – i.e., alcohol abuse.

[Genestho]

In a study of over 2,000 interlock participants, Voas et al. (2000) reported that among those who had access to another vehicle, there was no evidence to suggest that they were using a non-interlock equipped vehicle when drinking to avoid the interlock.

In Sweden, hard licence suspension for DWI offenders is not as ingrained in the sanctioning system as it is in North America. Interlock programs are available as an alternative to full licence suspension and offenders can apply to participate in the program and have the interlock installed as soon as possible. Participants must undergo periodic medical assessment – including blood tests for biological markers of alcohol abuse – and provide proof of a sober lifestyle after one year. The interlock then remains in the vehicle for an additional year.

The evidence to date suggests that the sooner the offender enters the interlocks program the better.

It is recommended that interlock programs be viewed as part of a comprehensive system for dealing with DWI offenders. Every effort should be made to ensure that participation in the interlock program be coordinated with other sanctions and rehabilitation programs to maximize beneficial effects.

Although it is illegal for the participant to drive such a vehicle and for someone to knowingly rent or loan such a vehicle to an interlock program participant, it can happen.

The electronic driver’s licence might fill this gap (Goldberg, 1995). This licence is electronically coded with critical information about the driver, including the restriction to interlock-equipped vehicles. Prior to starting the vehicle, the licence must be inserted into a card reader in the dashboard. The reader determines the eligibility of the driver to operate the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have an interlock, the vehicle will not start. Such a system would require the entire vehicle fleet to be equipped with readers. Should this occur, the system may provide an additional barrier to help prevent interlock participants from operating other vehicles.

[Genestho]

LOL! Ok, I'll stop now!

This is just one "Best Practices" report from a co-alation of cited researches and world wide studies.

Theres a whole load more in this particular report on legislation, enforcement, monitoring etc...

What we have to realise is for this to work, we must assess, which currently - we only assess 5% of all dd's, which prosecutions are around the 30.000 per year mark, and rising. This year, allegedly - we are about to hit an all time recorded high.
New Mexico, Louisianna and Arizona will be fitting these for first time DUI's, this year.
Out of Sweden there is suggestion to factory fit interlocks in all new cars.


I might be naive or simplistic, but in my view, and that's all it is, is that we appear to treat drink driving as one big blob of a problem.

If we tackled each portion of the problem seperately...(oh yes, it is a big job)

IE; Youth and Learner Drivers/Education, the wine with dinners, the over the limit from the night before, the recidivists with alcohol and social problems, binge drinkers, and I really don't care types.


Happy to answer any more questions based on the research:sunny:

If you can handle it :laugh:!!!:Punk:

Cheers

[carver]

riding pissed is fun

[Drew]

riding pissed is fun

Darwin suggests we leave this fucktard to it.

[carver]

Darwin suggests we leave this fucktard to it.

so you have never operated a vehicle after a few?

[Drew]

so you have never operated a vehicle after a few?

I'm ashamed to say I have.

That makes me a hypocrit, not wrong.

[carver]

I'm ashamed to say I have.

That makes me a hypocrit, not wrong.

well, there you go
im in good company, lets do it together

[scumdog]

riding pissed is fun

Yeah but you have to actually be able to ride though...pissed or not.:shutup:

[Drew]

well, there you go
im in good company, lets do it together

Erm...not keen on the implications here.

[98tls]

well, there you go
im in good company, lets do it together Theres a remote chance you have family of human origin,if so and a pissed driver hit one you wouldnt bother posting this dribble.

[carver]

Yeah but you have to actually be able to ride though...pissed or not.:shutup:

said the harley rider....


Erm...not keen on the implications here.



Theres a remote chance you have family of human origin,if so and a pissed driver hit one you wouldnt bother posting this dribble.

ah yes, but riding is different.

let me tell you a story.

i once picked up a chic on my GSXR 1000, i was too drunk to walk straight, took her home at speed, she had no helmet, and i made it....then rode her in bed hard.
that was a bit silly.

but riding a moped, who gives a fuck, its a good giggle, no ones going to get hurt except me.

[scumdog]

said the harley rider....

Yeah sure, there's plain old fashioned Harley riders riding like I do, not really worth mentioning I guess....

And then there's 'Woo-eee, lookit me, I'm so cool, youzers, man look at how I can ride, shee-it am I good or what, check out how many times I got my knee down back there, look at me biff that baby around, didja see that stoppie? oh and howzabout that 10 mile mono,hells bells can I ride - did I tell you that?' kind of riding.

[carver]

Yeah sure, there's plain old fashioned Harley riders riding like I do, not really worth mentioning I guess....

And then there's 'Woo-eee, lookit me, I'm so cool, youzers, man look at how I can ride, shee-it am I good or what, check out how many times I got my knee down back there, look at me biff that baby around, didja see that stoppie? oh and howzabout that 10 mile mono,hells bells can I ride - did I tell you that?' kind of riding.

i think you misunderstand me.

[MIXONE]

More commonly known as a FIGJAM.

[PirateJafa]

I'm ashamed to say I have.

That makes me a hypocrit, not wrong.

Technically it'd make you a hypocrite.

[Genestho]

I got ya Carver.

I used to like "riding pissed" too, until my well built, well maintained 33 yr/old machine, sleek, built for speed, with a long wheel base got carved up by nong.
Currently residing in a box, about six feet under.

Peace:yes:

[carver]

I got ya Carver.

I used to like "riding pissed" too, until my well built, well maintained 33 yr/old machine, sleek, built for speed, with a long wheel base got carved up by nong.
Currently residing in a box, about six feet under.

Peace:yes:

so you owned some cunt with a norton?

[Genestho]

so you owned some cunt with a norton?

Sigh, consider yourself off the radar. You Exhibit A, are a prime example of what I consider part of my outlook on life.

"Don't sweat the small stuff"

You my dear, are what I consider "small stuff":shutup:

Goodbye, and thanks for the thread bump:woohoo:

[Drew]

Yeah sure, there's plain old fashioned Harley riders riding like I do, not really worth mentioning I guess....

And then there's 'Woo-eee, lookit me, I'm so cool, youzers, man look at how I can ride, shee-it am I good or what, check out how many times I got my knee down back there, look at me biff that baby around, didja see that stoppie? oh and howzabout that 10 mile mono,hells bells can I ride - did I tell you that?' kind of riding.
Sheesh scummy, I haven't seen you bite like that, since I was tryng to wind you up. Thought for sure Carver would be on you ignore list.

[Drew]

so you owned some cunt with a norton?

You cant BE that thick, surely.

On the off chance you are serious, the lady refers to a husband or partner, now dead from riding pissed.

[Genestho]

Thanks Drew, but nah, I'm referring to my sober husband, who was killed on his Guzzi along with two friends on their Guzzi, by a very very drunk driver - who had three kids in his car, who then died himself.

So, like you said, with Darwins theory - I am a huge Fan.:yes:
The thing about Darwinists, is that they seem to take the innocent with them.

[scumdog]

You cant BE that thick, surely.

On the off chance you are serious, the lady refers to a husband or partner, now dead from riding pissed.

He is.

or I'd have got a better response from my last post by now.

[peasea]

Yeah sure, there's plain old fashioned Harley riders riding like I do, not really worth mentioning I guess....

And then there's 'Woo-eee, lookit me, I'm so cool, youzers, man look at how I can ride, shee-it am I good or what, check out how many times I got my knee down back there, look at me biff that baby around, didja see that stoppie? oh and howzabout that 10 mile mono,hells bells can I ride - did I tell you that?' kind of riding.

Ummmmm, sports bike riders? Just a wild guess.

[carver]

Thanks Drew, but nah, I'm referring to my sober husband, who was killed on his Guzzi along with two friends on their Guzzi, by a very very drunk driver - who had three kids in his car, who then died himself.

So, like you said, with Darwins theory - I am a huge Fan.:yes:
The thing about Darwinists, is that they seem to take the innocent with them.


He is.

or I'd have got a better response from my last post by now.

saying it like that makes it clear, all your guesses were wrong, so we are all a bit dumb

[Genestho]

saying it like that makes it clear, all your guesses were wrong, so we are all a bit dumb

Ahhhh but are we really my young friend? I have a really good sense of humour!

If I'd have ultimately assumed anything, I'd have posted an extremely clear message to you. Have no doubt about that.

I had my reasons for answering you the way I did in my first post, it was not until Drew made an incorrect assumption, that I felt the need to make anything in my situation clear.

I will never make an assumption that anyone knows about B.A.D.D, or why it started. Unless it's made clear - they do know, and still take the piss, then I have wonder why. And don't have a problem asking.

May I suggest Carver that you consider - you are a role model to kids with your passion for (is it stunting work that you do?).

A role model is not just action, but a healthy attitude also.:Punk: Goodluck for the future:sunny:

[Tink]

"Twelve checkpoints were set up in Manukau and Papakura and a total of 13,593 vehicles were stopped over the two nights. Police found 216 drivers who were over the legal breath alcohol limit.

Counties Manukau road policing manager Inspector Heather Wells said it was an "unacceptable" number of drunk drivers to have on the roads.

One driver who was found to be over the limit had his vehicle taken off him but returned home and got his father's car and was stopped at another checkpoint and processed again.

He was again over the limit. He told police he was continuing to drive because he wanted to get to a kava party.

Three drivers got hold of spare keys or another car and drove after being processed. All these drivers ended up with two drink drive charges for the night, Ms Wells said.

One male passenger abused police and then tried unsuccessfully to take one of their patrol cars after his wife was taken into the "booze bus" for testing.

A 17-year-old youth was stopped for driving at 190 kmh on the southern motorway. He blew a reading of 589mcg of alcohol per litre of breath -- nearly four times the legal limit for someone under 20. He told police he was in a hurry to pick up his girlfriend."

Ah yes, brainless existence is alive and well on your roads Auckland.:mad:

Now if Sue 'I'm a bad as I look' Bradford had taken to this problem with the same zeal she has taken to the (non-existant?) smacking problem we might see some suitable punishments being handed to drunks on our road.:whistle:

Rant over.

Can't someone patent cars that have compulsary breath tests in them... if you fail it won't start!!!

Or is that just a dream that will never happen!! I am from Papakura, and I have to say that whomever got tested IN Papakura that are from Papakura should be ashamed... !! disgusted.

[idb]

saying it like that makes it clear, all your guesses were wrong, so we are all a bit dumb

It's OK to say "sorry" sometimes.

[Genestho]

Can't someone patent cars that have compulsary breath tests in them... if you fail it won't start!!!

Or is that just a dream that will never happen!! I am from Papakura, and I have to say that whomever got tested IN Papakura that are from Papakura should be ashamed... !! disgusted.

Oh no, that's already been patented! It is not a dream!! hehe

Go back a couple of pages, bit of extensive info there, it's a bit technofunky though!!!

[BiK3RChiK]

Drink driving.... escapism at it's worst. But when reality kicks in What a bitch!

These peeps need to get a clue!

[Genestho]

It's OK to say "sorry" sometimes.

Thanks idb, it's all good buddy, I have a feeling there were no malicious intentions ;)

And in defence of SD, I'd say he's cleaned up similar messes in his time, alcohol related - or not, it must be awful to live with, and the fact he still rides a bike on our roads at all, is a testament to the lifestyle.

And he actually gives a shit about his job, to say something here, which again cannot be easy an easy choice to make!

[Tink]

Oh no, that's already been patented! It is not a dream!! hehe

Go back a couple of pages, bit of extensive info there, it's a bit technofunky though!!!

Thanks could not be bothered reading the whole thread, limited time!!! SO WHEN IS THIS TECHNO FUNKY THING gonna happen !!!!:soon:

[Genestho]

Thanks could not be bothered reading the whole thread, limited time!!! SO WHEN IS THIS TECHNO FUNKY THING gonna happen !!!!:soon:

Yea it's a trawl dude!

Technofunkage part 1 HOPEFULLY
I should hear something back this week, sounds pretty positive though!
But I won't get excited until I understand ALL the details!
At this point it I can imagine it would only be implemented on recidivists, too expensive to go beyond that point - because they'll have to factor in the costs of specific rehabilitation and hopefully monitoring!

The patented installation at the factory on new model cars is under consideration in Sweden - as I understand it, so that would a long way from coming here - factory fitted, and if it does come into fruition, there would be other factors to consider!

[Tink]

Yea it's a trawl dude!

Technofunkage part 1 HOPEFULLY
I should hear something back this week, sounds pretty positive though!
But I won't get excited until I understand ALL the details!
At this point it I can imagine it would only be implemented on recidivists, too expensive to go beyond that point - because they'll have to factor in the costs of specific rehabilitation and hopefully monitoring!

The patented installation at the factory on new model cars is under consideration in Sweden - as I understand it, so that would a long way from coming here - factory fitted, and if it does come into fruition, there would be other factors to consider!

Money well spent, rather than on hospitals, ambulances waiting for it to happen... where there time is also precious... I would consider governments would move quickly to get this in cars fast. Harder penalties, and improvement of public transport might help. Geez bring on the next 10 yrs... society (parts of) need a good kick up the arse!!!

[Genestho]

Money well spent, rather than on hospitals, ambulances waiting for it to happen... where there time is also precious... I would consider governments would move quickly to get this in cars fast. Harder penalties, and improvement of public transport might help. Geez bring on the next 10 yrs... society (parts of) need a good kick up the arse!!!

I agree with the public transport thing too.
That's something I looked into a while back, didn't go far with it, but something to think about, who knows - something the greens might be interested in?

What with the pushing of climate issues, less cars on the roads, encouraging 24 hr public transport as roadsafety prevention at the same time, there'd issues with that too though, something to think about though.

[Edbear]

Money well spent, rather than on hospitals, ambulances waiting for it to happen... where there time is also precious... I would consider governments would move quickly to get this in cars fast. Harder penalties, and improvement of public transport might help. Geez bring on the next 10 yrs... society (parts of) need a good kick up the arse!!!

If they're going to start crushing the boy-racer's cars, how about including racidivist drink-driver's cars as well? I doubt the boy racer's are any more dangerous than drink-drivers, so why not? And while they're at it, cars that are unregistered, unwarranted and downright dangerous. I'm sure no-one would argue that there are cars on the road that are simply an accident waiting to happen, (bit like some driver's really...).

[Genestho]

If they're going to start crushing the boy-racer's cars, how about including racidivist drink-driver's cars as well? I doubt the boy racer's are any more dangerous than drink-drivers, so why not? And while they're at it, cars that are unregistered, unwarranted and downright dangerous. I'm sure no-one would argue that there are cars on the road that are simply an accident waiting to happen, (bit like some driver's really...).

Car crushing is to be addressed by a guy who lost his wife last year, we're going to work together on it, but it's his project. Watch this space

[short-circuit]

If they're going to start crushing the boy-racer's cars, how about including racidivist drink-driver's cars as well? I doubt the boy racer's are any more dangerous than drink-drivers, so why not? And while they're at it, cars that are unregistered, unwarranted and downright dangerous. I'm sure no-one would argue that there are cars on the road that are simply an accident waiting to happen, (bit like some driver's really...).

If I had rep powers I'd bling this

[BiK3RChiK]

If they're going to start crushing the boy-racer's cars, how about including racidivist drink-driver's cars as well? I doubt the boy racer's are any more dangerous than drink-drivers, so why not? And while they're at it, cars that are unregistered, unwarranted and downright dangerous. I'm sure no-one would argue that there are cars on the road that are simply an accident waiting to happen, (bit like some driver's really...).

What a grand idea! Bling diddly bling...

Shame about the ones who do crush their own cars though and others with it! :2guns::bash:

[oldrider]

If I had rep powers I'd bling this

I will bling him for you! :innocent:

What happened to your powers, did you swallow some krypton? :shifty:

[Edbear]

What a grand idea! Bling diddly bling...

Shame about the ones who do crush their own cars though and others with it! :2guns::bash:

Yup. Automatic manslaughter charge and recidivist drink-drivers causing death consider the murder charge...


If I had rep powers I'd bling this


I will bling him for you! :innocent:

What happened to your powers, did you swallow some krypton? :shifty:

Awww shucks! Twernt nuthin really...:innocent:

[Genestho]

What a grand idea! Bling diddly bling...

Shame about the ones who do crush their own cars though and others with it! :2guns::bash: Agreed!!!!!

It's an awesome general deterrent, and I support it, but it will not address recidivists.

And I'll tell you why.

The guy that drove in my husbands case was an "indefinately disqualified" driver, the car was lent by an expired license owner. He drove to work everyday.
He sat his license 2 years prior, and failed.

This man was an alchy, his liver was nailed, and he had a 20 year career of drink driving - who was going to drive - no matter what. Apart from locking away these types for good - which is not going to happen....we need to address the fact that alchys will drive.

Which is why Interlock devices were designed; to stop a driver when drunk, on the job 24/7, rolling retests etc (see a couple of pages back!) not having to rely on the police to catch and crush.

Police would be lucky to catch I think it's 50% of drink drivers?

[short-circuit]

I will bling him for you! :innocent:

What happened to your powers, did you swallow some krypton? :shifty:

Been a bad bad boy

[Edbear]

Agreed!!!!!

It's an awesome general deterrent, and I support it, but it will not address recidivists.

And I'll tell you why.

The guy that drove in my husbands case was an "indefinately disqualified" driver, the car was lent by an expired license owner. He drove to work everyday.
He sat his license 2 years prior, and failed.

This man was an alchy, his liver was nailed, and he had a 20 year career of drink driving - who was going to drive - no matter what. Apart from locking away these types for good - which is not going to happen....we need to address the fact that alchys will drive.

Which is why Interlock devices were designed; to stop a driver when drunk, on the job 24/7, rolling retests etc (see a couple of pages back!) not having to rely on the police to catch and crush.

Police would be lucky to catch I think it's 50% of drink drivers?

You're not wrong! I agree, such people will drive until they are physically prevented from doing so. Something for the courts to address. Forced rehab may be one avenue to try and break the addiction. Like gambling, it is an addiction that has to be recognised by the addict and they must then want to address it.

Short of locking them up indefinitely, it is not an easy issue to deal with.

[Genestho]

You're not wrong! I agree, such people will drive until they are physically prevented from doing so. Something for the courts to address. Forced rehab may be one avenue to try and break the addiction. Like gambling, it is an addiction that has to be recognised by the addict and they must then want to address it.

Short of locking them up indefinitely, it is not an easy issue to deal with.

Yep, that part is MOJ's and MOH's department..

What I do know for a fact, is we only assess (asessment is pre-requisit to any rehab option of course) 5% of all drink drivers, and (I think, the figure -off the top of my head is 42%) recidivists are typically being assessed on 4/5th conviction...so that needs to change.

Baring in mind technically a recidivist is 3 plus convictions, car crushing perhaps could come in a prior conviction?

I haven't looked into it too far...but will be!

[mister.koz]

Reckon guaranteed suspension for a couple of years 1st offence and jail time for 2nd offence all stacked up with hefty fines of realistic measure. 3rd time sterilization (save the gene pool people - especailly for gems like the one laava mentioned), psychiatric assessment and a public beating.


We had one up here about6yrs ago in Dargaville court. 1st offence, and he got jailtime. Actually it was national news at the time.

Why not cancel licenses indefinitely for re-offenders and jail time for subsequence drives?

Then we pool up our jails i guess... people need a realistic consequence thumped into them sometimes. I tell ya the memory of a serious accident with a drunk driver is enough for me, so then unrelated people suffer for some ignorant drunken fool, at least in my case the drunk driver was the only one injured really, i am guessing he wont do it again (mainly because i don't think he will be ABLE to drive again).

Legislation combined with political correctness and a "waaaa" attitude tends to take that consequence away and make it an irritation. Being irritated doesn't stop much.

[scumdog]

while they're at it, cars that are unregistered, unwarranted and downright dangerous. I'm sure no-one would argue that there are cars on the road that are simply an accident waiting to happen, (bit like some driver's really...).

Only they're rarely ever true 'accidents'...<_<

[oldrider]

All my life I have lived with the adage, that "you can't put an old head on young shoulders".

Now that I have an "old head" it often occurs to me, that I really don't need to drink to enjoy myself and other people's company.

The fact that most alcoholic drinks make me feel so bad now that I prefer to avoid them, does help in coming to that realisation.

How do we change that mindset in the young without robbing them of the learning opportunities of life, that we had? :shifty:

[Drew]

How do we change that mindset in the young without robbing them of the learning opportunities of life, that we had? :shifty:

What an ironic question. You can only hope the younger generation, (even more ironic, you're in my fathers demographic), will learn from you.

[Genestho]

All my life I have lived with the adage, that "you can't put an old head on young shoulders".

Now that I have an "old head" it often occurs to me, that I really don't need to drink to enjoy myself and other people's company.

The fact that most alcoholic drinks make me feel so bad now that I prefer to avoid them, does help in coming to that realisation.

How do we change that mindset in the young without robbing them of the learning opportunities of life, that we had? :shifty:

Yea, I guess you pass on what you know!
I've learnt alot in two years. I've alot about life in general. Pass it on John.. someone may learn :yes:

[ynot slow]

Was thinking about the older generation drinking.Dads mate who used to drink whiskey,would think nothing of having several drinks and heading off.He would drive many kms after a few and never get caught or crash,even do a pub crawl litterely from Palmy races to the Naki,and take about 3-4 hours to get home,stopping at Waitotara,Tuarakina,Waverley,Kai Iwi ,Wanganui to give an idea.

We did it 20-25yrs ago after soccer,have say 4 or 5 beers head home maybe 50minutes away,few more once home,never thought we were too pissed.Maybe it was harder to get picked up,i.e cops needed a reason to stop us,we kept to speed limits etc.

Then the generation say now 20-30 seem to accept not drinking/driving,lady I used to work with had no qualms driving at 2.30am Sunday morning to pick her son and mates up after rugby and pub,she thought at least they will get home safe,I thought these guys were pretty mature drinking wise for 20yr olds,and good on her for saying yes call for mums taxi anytime.

[Genestho]

Was thinking about the older generation drinking.Dads mate who used to drink whiskey,would think nothing of having several drinks and heading off.He would drive many kms after a few and never get caught or crash,even do a pub crawl litterely from Palmy races to the Naki,and take about 3-4 hours to get home,stopping at Waitotara,Tuarakina,Waverley,Kai Iwi ,Wanganui to give an idea.

We did it 20-25yrs ago after soccer,have say 4 or 5 beers head home maybe 50minutes away,few more once home,never thought we were too pissed.Maybe it was harder to get picked up,i.e cops needed a reason to stop us,we kept to speed limits etc.

Then the generation say now 20-30 seem to accept not drinking/driving,lady I used to work with had no qualms driving at 2.30am Sunday morning to pick her son and mates up after rugby and pub,she thought at least they will get home safe,I thought these guys were pretty mature drinking wise for 20yr olds,and good on her for saying yes call for mums taxi anytime.

Yea I used to be curled up in the backseat of Dads car, he would've been pissed - without a doubt.
I see it possible to encourage group sober driving, if not already in place

[BiK3RChiK]

Was thinking about the older generation drinking.Dads mate who used to drink whiskey,would think nothing of having several drinks and heading off.He would drive many kms after a few and never get caught or crash,even do a pub crawl litterely from Palmy races to the Naki,and take about 3-4 hours to get home,stopping at Waitotara,Tuarakina,Waverley,Kai Iwi ,Wanganui to give an idea.

We did it 20-25yrs ago after soccer,have say 4 or 5 beers head home maybe 50minutes away,few more once home,never thought we were too pissed.Maybe it was harder to get picked up,i.e cops needed a reason to stop us,we kept to speed limits etc.

Then the generation say now 20-30 seem to accept not drinking/driving,lady I used to work with had no qualms driving at 2.30am Sunday morning to pick her son and mates up after rugby and pub,she thought at least they will get home safe,I thought these guys were pretty mature drinking wise for 20yr olds,and good on her for saying yes call for mums taxi anytime.

I think there's a couple of things about that...

Firstly, the speed limit was lower; Cars were rather gutless in comparison to todays grunt machines; And, there were way fewer cars on the road than nowadays. Having said that, there never was and never will be an excuse for driving under the influence IMO.

Our kids are 15 and 16. The 16 year old has had his drivers license (car and bike) for about a year now. The 15 year old is busting her boiler to get both as well. We often tell them that if they need a ride home when they go out, then call us and we will pick them up no matter the hour. They have some motivation to obey.... I was the innocent party in a motor vehicle accident involving a drunk driver some 21 years ago and live with constant pain from the accident. I hope that they will never have to go through that. Also, I think that to a certain extent, those ads on tv have some influence on them..

[Genestho]

I knew you had a story, sorry to hear you have had to live with the consequences. I think your kids will get it. They see it, they'll know it

[pete376403]

Then the generation say now 20-30 seem to accept not drinking/driving,lady I used to work with had no qualms driving at 2.30am Sunday morning to pick her son and mates up after rugby and pub,she thought at least they will get home safe,I thought these guys were pretty mature drinking wise for 20yr olds,and good on her for saying yes call for mums taxi anytime.

I told all of my kids that I would always collect them and their friends, any time, any where, if they were drinking. And did that many times.
I also told them I would kick the shit out of them if I found out they had been drinking and driving, or riding with a driver who had been drinking. They must have believed me cos as far as I know, they never did.

[ynot slow]

[QUOTE=BiK3RChiK;1129284932]I think there's a couple of things about that...

Firstly, the speed limit was lower; Cars were rather gutless in comparison to todays grunt machines; And, there were way fewer cars on the road than nowadays. Having said that, there never was and never will be an excuse for driving under the influence IMO.

QUOTE]


Re the cars,this guy always had Holdens either kingswoods,or commodores and always the v8 model lol.