Rekindling the greatest ever bike debate

[Big Dave]

The videos and poll on the KR blog (http://kiwiridermagazine.blogspot.com/2009/06/bd-10-greatest-motorcycles.html)

[Mschvs]

I agree with some of those, but come on .... obviously the criteria is variable for each bike, each bike is great for different reasons, hence I think 'Greatest bikes of all Time' is too broad a category ....

[BMWST?]

its all bullshit,its a generational thing
cb750 maybe,but the z1 ignited the "superbike" phenoena by trying to leapfrog the cb750,and the debate continues..

[PirateJafa]

The Cub is tops. No argument there.

Any other bikes are merely fighting for second place.

[Forest]

The greatest bike of all time is the one that's between your legs.

[mikeey01]

bar hum bug!

By what? Sales, horse-power, looks / appeal, handling, image, top speed, suspension, brakes, safety, production / factory / one off, Road / Trail / MX, race results, or just plain pure lust?
Do you look at leaders in the field, i.e. the first to..., top speed, horse-power, handling, safety.
Do you trust an American show to even come up with such a list?

Me thinks their list is so wrong is so many ways it's almost a joke, they've tried to make it the best of too few classes and bike types!
The number one being on sales alone!
Vespas being one of a hand full of iconic scooter brands, yet Honda being the most successful in sales. Who was the first to produce scooters? who was the first to invent that slush / crash gear box? There is way too many best of's over potentially too many headings such as above to bring it down to just ten.


The greatest bike of all time is the one that's between your legs.
Correction, being the one that you want between your legs :)

[Headbanger]

The greatest bikes of all time were all early to mid 80's motocross bikes.

the RM465, YZ490, KX500,CR500, YZ250, CR250 etc etc.

[Motu]

The DKW - it's blueprints mysteriously found their way into motorcycle design rooms around the world.The best war prize after the VW.

[pete376403]

its all bullshit,its a generational thing
cb750 maybe,but the z1 ignited the "superbike" phenoena by trying to leapfrog the cb750,and the debate continues..

"...trying..."? The Z1 absolutely hosed the CB750.

[Subike]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWST? View Post
its all bullshit,its a generational thing
cb750 maybe,but the z1 ignited the "superbike" phenoena by trying to leapfrog the cb750,and the debate continues..
"...trying..."? The Z1 absolutely hosed the CB750.
__________________

Then yamaha released the XS 1.1 and they all looked slow for about 1 year.

[Squiggles]

My bike is clearly the bestest.

[Skyryder]

This baby. Beats them all if only for nostalgic reasons.

In 1894, the Hildebrand & Wolfmüller became the first motorcycle available to the public for purchase.


Skyryder

[gunnyrob]

I love my big Beemer, especially now Chris Birch taught me how to ride it properly in gravel!!!!

[NDORFN]

Atleast the Britten made the cut.

[Usarka]

Vincent Black Shadow!

[Big Dave]

This baby. Beats them all if only for nostalgic reasons.

In 1894, the Hildebrand & Wolfmüller became the first motorcycle available to the public for purchase.


Skyryder

Imagine finding one of them in a shed!

[The Pastor]

Vincent Black Shadow!
dont you dare! 1952 Vincent Black Lightning!

[eelracing]

I reckon most influential would be a better title.

In that respect i would plum for the captain america panhead in Easy Rider.I know it inspired some god awful replicas in some garages as well as manufacturers.Am thinking of the bastardisation Norton did to the commando when they came up with the hi-rider.

High up on my list would also be a Mike Hailwood rep for classic cool.
And the ever popular RD350Lc for inspiring a generation of hooligans.

[Pinstripe]

dont you dare! 1952 Vincent Black Lightning!
I love that song :yes:

Reasonably accurate list I suppose, but I would've expected to see a Vincent v twin, BSA Goldstar or even the Suzuki Hayabusa in there.

[Mystic13]

Greatest bikes to me would have to include bikes that created a turning point.

So the first adventure bike should be there.

There should be a 2 stroke. There are a generation of us who grew up around these things.

I agree the Vespa should be on the list.

There should be a chopper and I agree with Captain America's bike for that.

The Y2K and Guzzi should be dropped from the list.

Maybe they should do a 20 greatest list.

[MSTRS]

Greatest bikes to me would have to include bikes that created a turning point.



Agreed. Like the first 2 stroke to have separate oil feed. Or telescopic forks. Or unit-construction engine/gearbox.
Or represented the pinnacle of their type. Perhaps like the RE5.

[xwhatsit]

Turning point? That's why the Cub is #1.

Changed whole nations from horse/donkey/cart to motorbike. Still doing the same thing today.

World's most-produced and longest-running bike model. Keep that at #1.

The Brough Superior shouldn't be on there. Neither should the Vincent replace it (same thing really, the Brough of the 50s...). Neither bikes changed much. Even though everybody loved the Vincent, nobody bought it or copied it. Triumph, Norton, BSA et al kept producing faster and faster parallel twins, and the public kept buying them. As Phil Vincent said (and Ixion has in his sig),


The manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to find out what the average rider prefers, because the maker who guesses closest to the average preference gets the largest sales. But the average rider is mainly interested in silly (as opposed to useful) “goodies” to try to kid the public that he is riding a racer.

And that's what continued to happen. Instead of coming around to the idea of a `sport touring' bike, one designed to cover long distances smoothly with effortless speed, instead they went to sportsbikes and cafe racers, and the trend didn't stop when the Japs came along with the fours either. In fact we're still doing the same thing today; everybody lusts after a bike which looks just like Rossi's, so that's what the manufacturers sink all their money into... so every man and his dog are riding around on Tupperware race-reps and interesting designs like Yamaha's MT03 don't even get a look in.

Of course now we have bikes like the FJR and ST, but you can hardly argue they were inspired by the Vincent Rapide (or the tuned-up Shadow). They're not exactly forefront in the biker consciousness, either.

[3L4NS1R]

where's the GN?!

[Motu]

Turning point? That's why the Cub is #1.

Even though everybody loved the Vincent, nobody bought it or copied it.

The Vincent was an engineers bike - Phil and Phil went to every effort to make things perfect from an engineering point of view....like rockers inline with pushrods,rockers working from the middle of the valve stem to reduce side thrust.Everywhere you look on the bike you see this attention to detail,and that's one of the reasons for Phil Vincent's quote...he felt the manufacturers were pandering to riders taste and not engineering perfection.The perfect bike doesn't sell.

People who have never owned a Cub will never accept them as the best bike in the world,but millions world wide know it's a fact.Duh - what could be better than a gixer?

[Big Dave]

Cub: Appliance - implement - tool - important socio-economic machinery. Yes.
Great motorcycle: No.

Greatness has something aspirational - Even Ranjit of Rangoon wishes he could trade his Cub on a BMW.

[Indiana_Jones]

Bonneville gets my vote

-Indy

[Motu]

Greatness has something aspirational - Even Ranjit of Rangoon wishes he could trade his Cub on a BMW.

Greatness is marketing....good motorcycles don't become great without some media hype.Take out the media hype,and Ranjit will see his Cub is much more use to him than a BMW.But he watches Bollywood....so he wants a BMW.

[xwhatsit]

Cub: Appliance - implement - tool - important socio-economic machinery. Yes.
Great motorcycle: No.

Greatness has something aspirational - Even Ranjit of Rangoon wishes he could trade his Cub on a BMW.
Aspirational, from the sense of `put the whole world on wheels'. Give modern transport to the masses, those who otherwise would've spent their entire lives riding a bicycle.

The CB750 or Vincent Rapide or whatever can be as amazing a motorcycle as you like, but none of them had that scope.

[zzzbang]

The greatest bikes of all time were all early to mid 80's motocross bikes.

the RM465, YZ490, KX500,CR500, YZ250, CR250 etc etc.

If your gna start naming those, dont forget the Maico.

[Big Dave]

Aspirational, from the sense of `put the whole world on wheels'. Give modern transport to the masses, those who otherwise would've spent their entire lives riding a bicycle.


But it wasn't 'just' the cub that did that.

[Motu]

But the Cub had marketing,that's what did it.''You meet the nicest people on a Honda''.The BSA Bantam had no media hype....everyone rode one,but no add agency said they were better than they was....so they aren't remembered.

[Skyryder]

Douglas Dragonfly...............for the name alone.

[toycollector10]

The old CB750/Z1 argument again..

The CB750 was the worlds first mass produced superbike. First mass produced in-line 4. First with a whole lot of stuff I won't go into for the sake of brevity.

Please don't counter with the Vincent or the Douglas, they could only build three or four a day and they were pre-war technology basically. At their peak in the 1970's honda were pulling 3,000 bikes a day off their assembly lines.

The Z1 came along then the Shagmaster MKII, or whatever...right up to the Hyabusa of today. And it will be something else next year but the CB and the Zed were ground breaking bikes and there's no denying that!

[Motu]

I always thought it was the Trident/Commando/CB750 debate.The Commando came out in 1967,the Trident/Rocket III in 1968.....the Superbike race was on! Then in 1969 honda released to CB750.The Commando and Trident were the first 750cc performance bikes - Dunlop had to produce the TT100 to cope with the performance of the triples.

Having owned all three (well,my wife had a Trident,the Commando was ''borrowed'',um,long term) - The Commando was the most fun and easiest to ride,with ''no thought'' handling.The Trident had a harder hitting engine and needed some thought with the throttle,and handled great.The CB750 certainly had more power and was faster in top speed,but was a pig to ride,and the handling was shit.

My pick is the Trident.

[Edbear]

I always thought it was the Trident/Commando/CB750 debate.The Commando came out in 1967,the Trident/Rocket III in 1968.....the Superbike race was on! Then in 1969 honda released to CB750.The Commando and Trident were the first 750cc performance bikes - Dunlop had to produce the TT100 to cope with the performance of the triples.

Having owned all three (well,my wife had a Trident,the Commando was ''borrowed'',um,long term) - The Commando was the most fun and easiest to ride,with ''no thought'' handling.The Trident had a harder hitting engine and needed some thought with the throttle,and handled great.The CB750 certainly had more power and was faster in top speed,but was a pig to ride,and the handling was shit.

My pick is the Trident.


Personally I lusted after the Rocket 3... the '72 model was my fav. Never got the pleasure of owning one though. And the Commando was said to be the best handling bike on the planet at the time.

[toycollector10]

I'm really getting sick of this BS about Japanese bikes handling like pigs. Some knob on this forum stated that they were "spaghetti framed pieces of shit". I will go one on one at Ruapuna any day of the week on my CB750 and Z1 with you Norton guys.......Bring it on!

[Motu]

Twiiter,twitter.....Guffaw!!!!!

[xwhatsit]

But the Cub had marketing,that's what did it.''You meet the nicest people on a Honda''.The BSA Bantam had no media hype....everyone rode one,but no add agency said they were better than they was....so they aren't remembered.
They also aren't remembered because they only made about 250,000 of them (sure that was just the Bantam though... there was the original DKW RT125, the Yamaha YA1, Harley Hummer etc.), whereas there are 60 million Super Cubs made to date.

[MSTRS]

where's the GN?!

This does deserve an answer...
Consigned to page 43, lower left side. The editor was over-ruled and had to include it.

[colsan1]

Theres not a single bike in that list that i agree with.

I wouldnt pretend to no enough aboout the brough to give an opinion.

The Britten is in there for sentimental value, nice bike but in reality it did nothing.

The Vespa is a scooter NOT a bike.

Lists like this are pointless as everyone has their own personal opinion.

If i were to draw up a top 10 i doubt it look anything like anyone else's
Mine would be littered with two strokes for a start. I've nothing against
4 strokes but IMO two strokes are more fun to ride which in my mind is
what riding is all about, having fun.

[Big Dave]

Theres not a single bike in that list that i agree with.

Several I agree with - not necessarily the placement/ranking.

[Indiana_Jones]

Love watching that pommy git riding his Brough Superior at 90mph, I wanna hear what he says, was a lot of beeping lol

Edit: Acording to Wikipedia, The Brough Superior was the first motorcycle to use a side stand.

Where would we be today without that!

-Indy

[xwhatsit]

Where would we be today without that!

-Indy
Happily lubing our chains on the centre stand? Lifting our bikes onto said item with very-slightly enlarged biceps?

Sidestands (like electric starters) were invented so women and pussies (like our man BD :2thumbsup) can ride :buggerd:

[Big Dave]

You do realise that one of my legs weighs as much as you and your bike combined? (and is roughly as powerful)

Centre stands are weight best left on the jack stored in the shed.

[vgcspares]

I'm really getting sick of this BS about Japanese bikes handling like pigs. Some knob on this forum stated that they were "spaghetti framed pieces of shit". I will go one on one at Ruapuna any day of the week on my CB750 and Z1 with you Norton guys.......Bring it on!

if you read any contemporary magazine review (of the early Jappers you're on about) written often by aging editors who wrote the original hype-articles back when they were still wet behind the ears ... you will find they admit now that they handled like pigs, and that was when they were new

[xwhatsit]

You do realise that one of my legs weighs as much as you and your bike combined? (and is roughly as powerful)

Centre stands are weight best left on the jack stored in the shed.
In that case you should've fit pedals to that RS125 :first:


Guzzi V8 and Y2k have to go. Replace Guzzi V8 with the first MV transverse four, replace Y2k with... anything remotely relevant to motorcycling.

[nudemetalz]

Replace the Guzzi??.....
ooi....how do you !!! :dodge:

[Big Dave]

I just rang about getting the RS125 back. I want to test it, and I have a cunning plan.

[Edbear]

if you read any contemporary magazine review (of the early Jappers you're on about) written often by aging editors who wrote the original hype-articles back when they were still wet behind the ears ... you will find they admit now that they handled like pigs, and that was when they were new

I recall the Two Wheels test on the GS1000 saying that the Japs were finally beginning to build frames that could handle the engines. There were some good handlers back in the day, the 400 triple Kwaka handled well, the GS Suzuki's, 750 and 1000 and the GT380 triple. Generally, though, the engines overpowered the chassis' for a while. My T500 wasn't too great if hitting a bump mid-corner! :(

[Big Dave]

>>Replace the Guzzi??.....<<

Yes, whatsit yo' fool. You have to get it going before you can replace it.

[Motu]

if you read any contemporary magazine review (of the early Jappers you're on about) written often by aging editors who wrote the original hype-articles back when they were still wet behind the ears ... you will find they admit now that they handled like pigs, and that was when they were new

I'm sticking to the early '70's when it was said the CB750 (and Toycollector says) out performed everything else.The TT100 tyres and Girling shocks were so far ahead of the garbage Japanese suspension and Bridgestone tyres that it would be suicide for a CB750 to try and keep up with a Trident or Commando.Sure,with 40 years of development you can make a CB750 handle well - but with that same time frame you can make a Trident or Commando put out serious reliable and oil tight power. The CB750 was hyped up out of proportion...mainly in the USA where 1/4 mile times and top speed was all that mattered in road tests.

[toycollector10]

Whatever...Another of my hobbies is collecting 1970's bike magazines. And I own classic Japanese bikes, check my profile. But I have also owned BSA's and have ridden Nortons. When I could get them started. Love those Lucas electrics too.

Imagine the pipe and cloth cap, the tweed and old school respect for "Old Britain" and all of her motorcycles. God Save the Queen old boy.

Japanese bikes hit them full and square between the eyes and they just couldn't take it, just like you mate. Just like Toyota, Nissan and Honda cars prevail over dead ducks GM, Rover, Rolls Royce, Austin, Morris, Jaguar and the list goes on and on.

British crap build and design. Get over it!

[Indiana_Jones]

British crap build and design. Get over it!

You sir, go too far.

Pistols at dawn!


<img src="http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd281/1poet4man/AmExpTheDuel_0900.jpg">

-Indy

[Motu]

Get over it!

Touchy aren't we? Can't handle a bit of truth about Jap Crap?

[Big Dave]

Indy - keep it civil!

[Indiana_Jones]

Indy - keep it civil!

I'm sorry, I got lost in the heat of the moment lol

-Indy

[nudemetalz]

>>Replace the Guzzi??.....<<

Yes, whatsit yo' fool. You have to get it going before you can replace it.

ahhh,...but will the Guzzi be leaking oil like the Trumpy....?? :lol::bleh:

[ducatilover]

Honda mvx250 was the greatest sack of ring a ring puss:clap: My spada is by far the best spada I own and that works for me, has for over three years

[toycollector10]

Touchy aren't we? Can't handle a bit of truth about Jap Crap?

You made me do it..didn't you!

Substitute Santiago and the Marine Corps and you have the Japanese bike versus the British old bangers down.


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It's an allegory in the third millenium. "We use words like honour, code, loyalty"...And etc but when you and me boil it all down the big Japper versus Brit Metal debate is just all bull-shit. Right?

Each to their own but just don't slag off the Japanese bike if you ain't thrashed one yourself. OK.

[Ixion]

Whatever...Another of my hobbies is collecting 1970's bike magazines. And I own classic Japanese bikes, check my profile. But I have also owned BSA's and have ridden Nortons. When I could get them started. Love those Lucas electrics too.

Imagine the pipe and cloth cap, the tweed and old school respect for "Old Britain" and all of her motorcycles. God Save the Queen old boy.

Japanese bikes hit them full and square between the eyes and they just couldn't take it, just like you mate. Just like Toyota, Nissan and Honda cars prevail over dead ducks GM, Rover, Rolls Royce, Austin, Morris, Jaguar and the list goes on and on.

British crap build and design. Get over it!

I've owned or ridden most of the 60s/70s era Jap bikes (and still do). And owned or ridden most of the 60s/70s era Briddish iron. And still do.

Own both Briddish and Jap bikes of the era. Gotta say, the Brits have the better handling. Maybe the Jappa might stay with them, but the Brit would be a lot more relaxed doing it.

Brakes , now, that's anothe rmatter.

Never had any problem starting British bikes, though.

[Edbear]

I've owned or ridden most of the 60s/70s era Jap bikes (and still do). And owned or ridden most of the 60s/70s era Briddish iron. And still do.
....

Never had any problem starting British bikes, though.

Mmmm! Never owned a B31 obviously.... :no:

Otherwise I tend to agree with you.

[Indiana_Jones]

I've owned or ridden most of the 60s/70s era Jap bikes (and still do). And owned or ridden most of the 60s/70s era Briddish iron. And still do.

Can you hook a guy up?

I really wanna try an old school British bike :love:

-Indy

[MSTRS]

Can you hook a guy up?

I really wanna try an old school British bike :love:

-Indy

Can you handle a kick start? Without a compression release valve?
Oh - and a right-side gear shift?

[Indiana_Jones]

Can you handle a kick start? Without a compression release valve?
Oh - and a right-side gear shift?

Try me :D

-Indy

[MSTRS]

No thanks. And I still reckon you couldn't cut it, MatchstickBoy.

[Indiana_Jones]

No thanks. And I still reckon you couldn't cut it, MatchstickBoy.

Why do you break my heart so :(

-Indy

[xwhatsit]

You don't own anything that old any more, do ya?

[Big Dave]

You don't own anything that old any more, do ya?


His values.

[mikeey01]

I'm really getting sick of this BS about Japanese bikes handling like pigs. Some knob on this forum stated that they were "spaghetti framed pieces of shit". I will go one on one at Ruapuna any day of the week on my CB750 and Z1 with you Norton guys.......Bring it on!

Someone mention spaghetti?
Can we bring something that can really handle from an Italian stable, built in the 70's to this too? or is this just for the wooble ones only? :dodge:

TC hats off to you for fixing them up too, I'd love to see your collection one day..

meaning of wooble......
1. To move or rotate with an uneven or rocking motion or unsteadily from side to side. (yep that's them)
2. To tremble or quaver: The child's voice wobbled with emotion. (Gotta be from that noise!)
3. To waver or vacillate in one's opinions or feelings (O shit here it comes)