Roundabout argument help!

[sil3nt]

Settle this argument for me please. Had a lady pull out in front of me at a roundabout and GF went nuts at me for not indicating right even though i am adamant that where i was going was straight ahead therefore i only had to indicate left to exit.

This is the roundabout http://maps.google.co.nz/?ie=UTF8&ll=-37.79472,175.247571&spn=0.001234,0.002414&t=h&z=19

I am on whatawhata road on the inside lane where the black car is. I am going to exit at killarney road. I drive around and get to where the white car is when i indicate left to exit and someone pulls out from where the other black car is at the exit before killarney.

The argument is this.
GF thinks i should indicate right and then left.
I think i only have to indicate left as i am heading straight through.

Mates think i am right Mum agrees with the GF. Its silly but someone needs to win this.

[Toot Toot]

You need to learn that your girlfriend is always right.

Including this time....

[White trash]

No one wins trafic rules arguments. Ever.

Another good one is the four way stop sign on the intersection of Cuba and Able TAsman (I think) in Wellington. That's fucking HILARIOUS.

[howdamnhard]

Read the road code.

[Ragingrob]

Going by the road rules, yes if you're going straight through then you only need to indicate your exit turn.

Lady shouldn't have pulled out unless you were indicating left to turn off at the previous exit.

[Nasty]

You are right ... but trust me .. are you sure you want this to go on ... drop it.

[Kendog]

To me it looks like the SH23 exit is straight ahead, so would only need a left indication when you are exiting.

The exit you were going to take looks more like a right turn (based on that picture)

[texn]

I didn't think any one knew how to use indicators in Hamilton.

[sil3nt]

Her argument is i am not going straight i am going "round" as this is quite a large roundabout. I am confident that had there actually been an accident the other lady would have been in the wrong.

[sil3nt]

To me it looks like the SH23 exit is straight ahead, so would only need a left indication when you are exiting.

The exit you were going to take looks more like a right turn (based on that picture)The SH23 exit is the first exit available from the inside lane that i was in therefore to me it is the left exit. Killarney is the second available exit and therefore it is straight ahead.

[Ragingrob]

Her argument is i am not going straight i am going "round" as this is quite a large roundabout. I am confident that had there actually been an accident the other lady would have been in the wrong.

Well the lane you were in has a straight arrow in it, and the straight arrow definitely refers to Killarney rd... So yeah, technically you would only need to indicate your exit.

[Kendog]

The SH23 exit is the first exit available from the inside lane that i was in therefore to me it is the left exit. Killarney is the second available exit and therefore it is straight ahead.

Ahh, I was looking at Dinsdale as your first exit, but I see it has another entry prior to entering the roundabout.

The only way to be sure then is to take the direct line (avoiding the trees of course). That way no indicators are required.

[steve_t]

I'd probably move into the lane closest to the roundabout and probably would indicate right until I got just past the SH23 exit. With a roundabout this large, I'd err on the side of caution in that there is no straight ahead... but that's just me. With this one, it's more than 180 degrees ahead (going clockwise) so you might as well consider it a (slight) right exit.
Sorry to side with your GF.
With a small 4 entrance roundabout, indicating right when going straight unnecessarily holds up the person coming straight towards you... ie you shouldn't do it. With this example if you indicate right and then left after you pass the SH23 exit, you're not holding anyone up. Clear as mud?
As the others have said, is it really worth arguing about?

[Grahameeboy]

Her argument is i am not going straight i am going "round" as this is quite a large roundabout. I am confident that had there actually been an accident the other lady would have been in the wrong.

Okay Guys....a roundabout has curves so at some point you are going "round" but not "around" but the key point is that you were taking the exit which is straight ahead of your exit regardless of how big the roundabout is...the dynamics are the same.

Done

[Grahameeboy]

I'd probably move into the lane closest to the roundabout and probably would indicate right until I got just past the SH23 exit. With a roundabout this large, I'd err on the side of caution in that there is no straight ahead... but that's just me. With this one, it's more than 180 degrees ahead (going clockwise) so you might as well consider it a (slight) right exit.
Sorry to side with your GF.
With a small 4 entrance roundabout, indicating right when going straight unnecessarily holds up the person coming straight towards you... ie you shouldn't do it. With this example if you indicate right and then left after you pass the SH23 exit, you're not holding anyone up. Clear as mud?
As the others have said, is it really worth arguing about?

Oh dear............

[sil3nt]

I'd probably move into the lane closest to the roundabout and probably would indicate right until I got just past the SH23 exit. With a roundabout this large, I'd err on the side of caution in that there is no straight ahead... but that's just me. With this one, it's more than 180 degrees ahead (going clockwise) so you might as well consider it a (slight) right exit.
Sorry to side with your GF.
With a small 4 entrance roundabout, indicating right when going straight unnecessarily holds up the person coming straight towards you... ie you shouldn't do it. With this example if you indicate right and then left after you pass the SH23 exit, you're not holding anyone up. Clear as mud?
As the others have said, is it really worth arguing about?Well it annoys me when she tells me i am in the wrong when i know i am in the right ;)

I fully understand what you are saying and that on a large roundabout like this indicating right would be less confusing however common sense and the law often differ :bleh:

[discotex]

How the hell can you go "straight ahead" on a 5-entrance roundabout? :crazy: Get a ruler out and see where you'd end up.....

Even worse, how do you get "straight ahead" from taking the 3rd exit? WTF? :gob:

You're clearly and plainly wrong about needing to indicate right onto the roundabout.


The cage who failed to give way has NO WAY to know which entrance you started from so they probably were expecting you to get off at SH23 given the lack of right indicator.


It's not bloody rocket science people. Why do Kiwi's struggle with roundabouts so badly?

[sil3nt]

Why would they expect me to go left if i was not indicating left until after that exit? How is it the third exit? It is the second exit!

[mynameis]

Mrs is right, more important question who gave you your licence :lol:

[Ragingrob]

How the hell can you go "straight ahead" on a 5-entrance roundabout? :crazy: Get a ruler out and see where you'd end up.....

Even worse, how do you get "straight ahead" from taking the 3rd exit? WTF? :gob:

You're clearly and plainly wrong about needing to indicate right onto the roundabout.


The cage who failed to give way has NO WAY to know which entrance you started from so they probably were expecting you to get off at SH23 given the lack of right indicator.


It's not bloody rocket science people. Why do Kiwi's struggle with roundabouts so badly?

The lane he was in does have a straight through arrow, speaks for itself.

Why would they expect you to get off the roundabout, with a lack of the left indicator? Going by your logic...

For every exit at a roundabout you are supposed to indicate left, doesn't matter if they dunno where ya got on whatsoever.

[Ragingrob]

Mrs is right, more important question who gave you your licence :lol:

Care to explain?

[Mikkel]

When entering a roundabout you:

Indicate left if you take the 1st exit.

Do not indicate upon entering the roundabout if you take the 2nd exit (quite often straight ahead) - you then indicate left as you pass the 1st exit.

Indicate right upon entering if you intend to leave the roundabout beyond the 2nd exit. Start indicating left as you pass the exit prior to the one you are going to take.

However, whether you indicate correctly or not does not absolve anyone from giving way - a give way is unconditional!

So your girlfriend is right - this time (remember to add that when you face up :yes: ).

[discotex]

Why would they expect me to go left if i was not indicating left until after that exit? How is it the third exit? It is the second exit!

Because they can't see your left indicator clearly from where they are as you go past Dinsdale Rd and assume it's on (because your right one isn't).

Let me get what happened straight...

You are on Whatawhata Rd.
You enter the roundabout without indicating
You pass exit 1 - Dinsdale Rd
You pass exit 2 - SH23 (you indicate just after passing this)
You exit on exit 3 - Killarny Rd

That give way turning lane on Whatawhata Rd going to Dinsdale is an abortion but doesn't change the fact that Dinsdale is an exit of the round about (from the perspective of anyone else entering the roundabout).

Understand why it's the 3rd exit now?

[mynameis]

Care to explain?

Nope, go figure :D
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
0oh wait some already have explained.

[sil3nt]

Just too add to the confusion and probably put me in the wrong. The arrows in my lane tell me i can go straight and turn right. However from this lane people often take the first left onto SH23 and then on to massey and this is seems fine as cars in the other lane can not access killarney.
According to the arrows that SH23 exit would then be the straight ahead exit and killarney would be the first right exit meaning i would have to indicate right then left. Seriously im fkn confused now so i am going to bed. I have driven this roundabout for 3 or 4 years and this is the first time someone has pulled out in front of me. She was a young asian girl who half pulled out and stopped in everyones way before i let her go. Perhaps asian drivers are the problem :bleh:

[sil3nt]

Because they can't see your left indicator clearly from where they are as you go past Dinsdale Rd and assume it's on (because your right one isn't).

Let me get what happened straight...

You are on Whatawhata Rd.
You enter the roundabout without indicating
You pass exit 1 - Dinsdale Rd
You pass exit 2 - SH23 (you indicate just after passing this)
You exit on exit 3 - Killarny Rd

That give way turning lane on Whatawhata Rd going to Dinsdale is an abortion but doesn't change the fact that Dinsdale is an exit of the round about (from the perspective of anyone else entering the roundabout).

Understand why it's the 3rd exit now?Sorry but dinsdale road can not be accessed from either lane as it has its own exit before the actual roundabout (just to add to the confusion of this mess of roads).

[Ragingrob]

Because they can't see your left indicator clearly from where they are as you go past Dinsdale Rd and assume it's on (because your right one isn't).

Let me get what happened straight...

You are on Whatawhata Rd.
You enter the roundabout without indicating
You pass exit 1 - Dinsdale Rd
You pass exit 2 - SH23 (you indicate just after passing this)
You exit on exit 3 - Killarny Rd

That give way turning lane on Whatawhata Rd going to Dinsdale is an abortion but doesn't change the fact that Dinsdale is an exit of the round about (from the perspective of anyone else entering the roundabout).

Understand why it's the 3rd exit now?

I disagree. From the lane he was in it is the 2nd exit possible, otherwise he would've been in the left lane (not to mention the very left lane before the actual roundabout).

From the right hand lane that he was in, there is only one possible exit before the exit he was taking.

[discotex]

The lane he was in does have a straight through arrow, speaks for itself.

No it doesn't. The road rules don't say "indicate based on the painted arrows" they say indicate right unless you are going straight.

FFS they're indicators to "indicate" what you're doing so we don't have to be mind readers.

The road code is clear and simple.. Might pay to read it http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/about-driving/giving-way-at-roundabouts.html


If you are travelling more than halfway around a roundabout:

•signal right as you come up to the roundabout
•signal left as you pass the exit before the one you wish to take.



Why would they expect you to get off the roundabout, with a lack of the left indicator? Going by your logic...


For every exit at a roundabout you are supposed to indicate left, doesn't matter if they dunno where ya got on whatsoever.

Yes it does. Just explained that above.

[discotex]

Sorry but dinsdale road can not be accessed from either lane as it has its own exit before the actual roundabout (just to add to the confusion of this mess of roads).


I disagree. From the lane he was in it is the 2nd exit possible, otherwise he would've been in the left lane (not to mention the very left lane before the actual roundabout).

From the right hand lane that he was in, there is only one possible exit before the exit he was taking.

You are both wrong. Get over it.

It is an exit of the round about and you legally could take it from the left lane according to the painted markings. I agree it's an abortion of a road design that could confuse a 15 year old LEARNER.

And in either case he travelled more than half way around the roundabout so must indicate as per the road code.

:done:


Apologies if I'm coming across harsh... Just frustrated with cages not indicating properly and it's disheartening to see bikers have no clue of the road code.

[davebullet]

The SH23 exit is the first exit available from the inside lane that i was in therefore to me it is the left exit. Killarney is the second available exit and therefore it is straight ahead.

+1 what he said... so your GF is wrong, wrong, wrong.

PS: Mrs. B just told me she would indicate left twice... so here starts another argument at the B household.

[Ragingrob]

No it doesn't. The road rules don't say "indicate based on the painted arrows" they say indicate right unless you are going straight.

FFS they're indicators to "indicate" what you're doing so we don't have to be mind readers.

The road code is clear and simple.. Might pay to read it http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/about-driving/giving-way-at-roundabouts.html



Yes it does. Just explained that above.

By the time one gets to the actual roundabout at the giveway signs, Dinsdale rd is outta the equation as that sharp left turn is now behind you.

This leaves four lanes to the roundabout, he's aiming for the 2nd one, meaning he's not going more than halfway around the roundabout, meaning he does not have to indicate to the right.

[Ragingrob]

You are both wrong. Get over it.

It is an exit of the round about and you legally could take it from the left lane according to the painted markings. I agree it's an abortion of a road design that could confuse a 15 year old LEARNER.

And in either case he travelled more than half way around the roundabout so must indicate as per the road code.

:done:


Apologies if I'm coming across harsh... Just frustrated with cages not indicating properly and it's disheartening to see bikers have no clue of the road code.

The painted markings... Well... The sharp left painted marking refers to the additional left turn give way, leaving the other bearing left turn the only painted marking left available once past the additional left turn. Leaving four roads to the roundabout.

[discotex]

The painted markings... Well... The sharp left painted marking refers to the additional left turn give way, leaving the other bearing left turn the only painted marking left available once past the additional left turn. Leaving four roads to the roundabout.

You're missing the point. READ THE ROADCODE. If you go past half way (e.g. 180 degress) you MUST INDICATE RIGHT. It's so bloody simple I can't understand how people still fuck it up.

:bash:

And to your point - it doesn't work that way. It is a 5 way roundabout regardless of that stupid extra give way. If you don't believe me go cause an accident using this scenario and see if you can get the Police to say you were in the right.

[Mikkel]

You are ALL wrong. I won this argument! :first:

[discotex]

+1 what he said... so your GF is wrong, wrong, wrong.

PS: Mrs. B just told me she would indicate left twice... so here starts another argument at the B household.

:stupid:

His GF is right. Check your facts.

Let me repost them from the road code for you in case there is any doubt.



If you are travelling more than halfway around a roundabout:

•signal right as you come up to the roundabout
•signal left as you pass the exit before the one you wish to take.

[discotex]

You are ALL wrong. I won this argument! :first:

Please accept this polished turd as your prize ;)

<img src="http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png">

[JayRacer37]

No one wins trafic rules arguments. Ever.

Another good one is the four way stop sign on the intersection of Cuba and Able TAsman (I think) in Wellington. That's fucking HILARIOUS.

That has got to be one of the most entertaining and frustrating intersections in Welly. Why can't they make one street straight through! lol

[Ragingrob]

You're missing the point. READ THE ROADCODE. If you go past half way (e.g. 180 degress) you MUST INDICATE RIGHT. It's so bloody simple I can't understand how people still fuck it up.

:bash:

And to your point - it doesn't work that way. It is a 5 way roundabout regardless of that stupid extra give way. If you don't believe me go cause an accident using this scenario and see if you can get the Police to say you were in the right.

Half way is not judged by 180 degrees, but by number of roads. For a car in the right hand lane, the road he is taking is the second road available to him.

Using this scenario, I'm cruising around a roundabout, doesn't matter where I'm turning, if someone pulls out in front of me they have not given way and are in the wrong.

He could've been coming from Dinsdale rd for all she knew and even you would say he wouldn't have been indicating at that point.

So using this scenario, she would have failed to giveway to traffic.

As I said before, unless someone is indicating to the left, then they are definitely not indicating to get off the roundabout.

[peasea]

No one wins trafic rules arguments. Ever.

Another good one is the four way stop sign on the intersection of Cuba and Able TAsman (I think) in Wellington. That's fucking HILARIOUS.

Tell you what;

My daughter had some lame homework assignment that we turned to gold.

"Find some silly things that kiwis do."

I immediately thought "roundabout".

So, off we trot, pen, paper (no camera, bad move) and a whole bunch of patience. Didn't need the patience.

Fuck me; seconds after our arrival there was road rage. Minutes later, word exchanges, some words I couldn't make out, finger-pointing etc. international sign language and so on. This ended up a total success for the teenager's project but a terrible example of how to behave in public.

Nowt strange as folk.

[discotex]

Half way is not judged by 180 degrees, but by number of roads. For a car in the right hand lane, the road he is taking is the second road available to him.

I'm assuming that's just your opinion to suit your argument?

Even if we give you that it's the 3rd exit of 5 so is still past half way.



Using this scenario, I'm cruising around a roundabout, doesn't matter where I'm turning, if someone pulls out in front of me they have not given way and are in the wrong.

Fair call. I already agreed she should have given way anyway (and cursed under her breath at the moron who didn't indicate correctly). Doesn't matter if you are indicating or not; a person joining the roundabout must "give way to all vehicles that will cross your path from your right as you enter the roundabout".



He could've been coming from Dinsdale rd for all she knew and even you would say he wouldn't have been indicating at that point.

If he was coming from Dinsdale Rd she'd have been in a better position to see his indicator. That's the point of the rule. To make the indicators meaningful.



So using this scenario, she would have failed to giveway to traffic.

And he failed to indicate correctly. Likely to result in a "both at fault" report for the insurance companies and everyone loses their no-claims bonus.



As I said before, unless someone is indicating to the left, then they are definitely not indicating to get off the roundabout.

How is that relevant to whether he was indicating correctly or not? That was what the OP was blasted for by the GF (not George Forman)

[bull]

To throw another spanner in the works - Should be indicating right as you enter the round about, as the straight through would appear to be exiting at SH23 (both lanes go left onto SH23 or the inner can continue around to next exit)

Now once at the white car location(inner lane immediately prior to SH23 exit) you should be indicatiing left to get into outer lane to exit on Killarney Road(the inner lane would continue around to next exit). Botom line is that the any car entering from SH23 should not proceed if they cannot judge your intention on which lane youll be going into (tho if you were indicating right at the white car position at SH23 exit - then it would be safe to assume that the outer lane car exiting SH23 could safely head into outer lane - choosing to exit at Killarney or continue straight thru to Tuhikaramea).

Check all the arrows folks and youll get what im saying here.

[NDORFN]

Either way... it pisses me off when people going straight through a roundabout (that is, one with four roads coming off it) indicate to go right. Idiots.

[BiK3RChiK]

Her argument is i am not going straight i am going "round" as this is quite a large roundabout. I am confident that had there actually been an accident the other lady would have been in the wrong.

You are in the roundabout. You only need to indicate your exit when you are going 'straight' through. Your g/f is wrong. If you are turning right at a roundabout then you indicate right. So many people get this wrong at roundabouts!:girlfight::argh:

[kevie]

The basic rule is ... if you are turning into the first left exit you should be indicating left as you come up to the intersection. if you are going strait through you should not indicate untill you are passing the exit before your planned exit then indicate left and take the exit. if you are going around the roundabout and taking a later exit you should be A/ in the correct lane, and B indicating righ as you enter the roundabout, then as you pass the exit before your planned exit change to left indicator.

As always, watch what the other motorists are doing and never assume they know how to drive.

One thing that gets me annoyed is when someone's comming into the roundabout and indicating right so I (in my 20 metre 44 tonne rig) assume they are comming round so wait for them .... they then indicate left and leave by the exit before me gggggrrrrrrr

The ammusing thing is ... the roundabout laws were changed a few years ago to its present form and I was taught to use roundabouts like that way back in 1969 hahahhahaha

[thecharmed01]

No one wins trafic rules arguments. Ever.

Another good one is the four way stop sign on the intersection of Cuba and Able TAsman (I think) in Wellington. That's fucking HILARIOUS.

No one knows how to do roundabouts LOL

Driving School Instructor (shamefully I have to admit in Hamilton) taught me that if you are taking the first exit or any exit up to straight ahead, to indicate left only, but if I am going more than straight ahead to indicate right, then left off.
Always made sense to me.

That 4-way stop on Cuba street is awesome.
I have no idea why it is so hard to give way to the right but people will sit there for hours deliberating then just pull out on people. It makes no sense to me why we dont work like the USA in those situations.
The american rule, is first in first served but give way to the left. Damned sensible if you ask me.

:2thumbsup

[Spazm]

Quoted from: http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/about-driving/giving-way-at-roundabouts.html

When coming up to a multi-laned roundabout:

•try to get into the correct lane
•give way to all vehicles that will cross your path from your right as you enter the roundabout.


1, If you are turning left at the first exit of a roundabout:

•signal left as you come up to the roundabout.

2, If you are going 'straight' through a roundabout:

•don't signal as you come up to the roundabout
•signal left as you pass the exit before the one you wish to take. At some small roundabouts it may not be possible to give three seconds warning, but it is courteous to give as much indication as you can.

3, If you are travelling more than halfway around a roundabout:

•signal right as you come up to the roundabout
•signal left as you pass the exit before the one you wish to take.


That roundabout is a bit tricky as it could be interpreted at the time of approach to it that the exit you wanted is straight ahead.. if you take some time to study it with google earth it appears to be more than halfway round

Had you hit the other car.. I think they would get the infringment notice for failure to give way and you would be told to be careful at roundabouts and maybe lectured on indicator usage just for good measure..

[Skyryder]

The argument is this.
GF thinks i should indicate right and then left.
I think i only have to indicate left as i am heading straight through.

Mates think i am right Mum agrees with the GF. Its silly but someone needs to win this.

Both woman are wrong. Indicate right if turning right and exiting from a right hand turn. So many think as both your mum and girlfriend do.

Otherwise indicate as you exit the roundabout. Dumb rule I know, simple as, yet so many don't know and get it wrong.


Skyryder

[Bend-it]

Tell both women to shut up, cook some eggs and leave the driving to you.

They're both wrong. You were right.

:P

[Winston001]

FFS they're indicators to "indicate" what you're doing so we don't have to be mind readers.



And there it is in a nutshell. :2thumbsup:



I indicate for Africa, just in case.....:lol:

[Indiana_Jones]

why was she not in the kitchen?

or do you have a kitchen on your car? nice :D

-Indy

[spookytooth]

If two women agree that you are wrong then its a sure bet you'r right :)

[Bend-it]

I indicate for Africa, just in case.....:lol:

Approaching a roundabout northbound, that's left then eh? :banana:

:dodge:



If two women agree that you are wrong then its a sure bet you'r right


Because 2 wrongs don't make a right! :)

[icekiwi]

You need to learn that your girlfriend is always right.

Including this time....

LOL...what he said...

[Indiana_Jones]

She was mistaken, even if she was right

....correct her....


<img src="http://www.legaljuice.com/slapping%20barbara_eden.jpg">

-Indy

[pzkpfw]

You are in the roundabout. You only need to indicate your exit when you are going 'straight' through. ... If you are turning right at a roundabout then you indicate right. So many people get this wrong at roundabouts!:girlfight::argh:

No!

No. No. No.

You still indicate your exit (with left indicator) when you exit, when turning right.

If you keep your right indicator on, a person at the next exit around may think you are continuing, and give way to you when they don't need to. Same as someone turning left who doesn't indicate at all, so you give way thinking they might go "straight". Damn that pisses me off.

See: http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/about-driving/giving-way-at-roundabouts.html


If you are travelling more than halfway around a roundabout:

* signal right as you come up to the roundabout
* signal left as you pass the exit before the one you wish to take.

From: http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/overseasdrivers/overview-nz-road-rules.html

[Ragingrob]

No!

No. No. No.

You still indicate your exit (with left indicator) when you exit, when turning right.

If you keep your right indicator on, a person at the next exit around may think you are continuing, and give way to you when they don't need to. Same as someone turning left who doesn't indicate at all, so you give way thinking they might go "straight". Damn that pisses me off.

See: http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/about-driving/giving-way-at-roundabouts.html



From: http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/overseasdrivers/overview-nz-road-rules.html

Hmmm text ambiguity perhaps...


You only need to indicate your exit when you are going 'straight' through....

Does the 'only' relate to 'going straight through', as you've taken it?

Or does the 'only' relate to 'indicate your exit'?

Because if she was meaning "you only need to indicate your exit when you are going straight through", then you guys are on the same track to begin with.

[pzkpfw]

Because if she was meaning "you only need to indicate your exit when you are going straight through", then you guys are on the same track to begin with.

Ah, good point. As in she meant "if you are going 'straight through' you only indicate your exit", and didn't mean "you only indicate your exit if you are going 'straight through'".

I would stand corrected.

[Jonno.]

As long as you indicate to exit, a few degrees is just being silly. She didn't give way, period.

[pzkpfw]

Does it matter why she didn't give way?