Building Code/Safety?

[Usarka]

Anyone know about building codes / osh etc?

Was at a public sector premises and smacked myself in the head when opening a door that had a metal plate extruding at head height.

They told me it's a security device (for an electromagnetic lock) and it's normal practice to put at head height.

Yes I should have been more aware etc, and normall I'd take it on the chin (baahahaha) but I smell bovine poo and have been arse raped by this particular person/agency so any come back would be grrrreatly appreciated so I can stick it to the man :innocent:

[Big Dave]

Sorry buscuits I can't be helpful other than to say that coming from Aus - there ARE no building codes here.

[Usarka]

Sorry buscuits I can't be helpful other than to say that coming from Aus - there ARE no building codes here.

And I do like the attitude - you walked into a door??? Dumbarse!

But this particular agency is part of the whole health and safety jiz machine, so it'd be rude not to fire a hypercrite broadside (admitedly with a pea-shooter but what the heck).

Especially when they deal with head injuries...... :sherlock:

[slofox]

Sorry buscuits I can't be helpful other than to say that coming from Aus - there ARE no building codes here.

Try building something then...:brick:

[flyingcrocodile46]

Sorry buscuits I can't be helpful other than to say that coming from Aus - there ARE no building codes here.

Our building code is considerably larger, more complex (and accordingly less effective) than your Arsetrailering regs (I served my time there and have a full copy of our NZBC) :Pokey:

[Big Dave]

Try building something then...:brick:

Try being over six foot two. (And rotate that smiley 90 degrees anti-clockwise)

[Nasty]

Anyone know about building codes / osh etc?

Was at a public sector premises and smacked myself in the head when opening a door that had a metal plate extruding at head height.

They told me it's a security device (for an electromagnetic lock) and it's normal practice to put at head height.

Yes I should have been more aware etc, and normall I'd take it on the chin (baahahaha) but I smell bovine poo and have been arse raped by this particular person/agency so any come back would be grrrreatly appreciated so I can stick it to the man :innocent:

That is Occupational Health and Safery by the sounds rather than building code. You should have reported it to the person who you were seeing or the health and safety person of the business/organisation. Those things should not be at head height .... that is a huge issue, and I would make it that ... it is a danger to anyone. If they will not listen contact department of Labour OSH people - they should be able to deal with it.

[Big Dave]

Our building code is considerably larger, more complex (and accordingly less effective) than your Arsetrailering regs (I served my time there and have a full copy of our NZBC) :Pokey:

20 years since I worked construction but 'Leaky what' was that?

[flyingcrocodile46]

Anyone know about building codes / osh etc?

Was at a public sector premises and smacked myself in the head when opening a door that had a metal plate extruding at head height.

They told me it's a security device (for an electromagnetic lock) and it's normal practice to put at head height.

Yes I should have been more aware etc, and normall I'd take it on the chin (baahahaha) but I smell bovine poo and have been arse raped by this particular person/agency so any come back would be grrrreatly appreciated so I can stick it to the man :innocent:

I may be able to help here but "extruding" is a manufacturing process and there is otherwise insufficient quantitative descriptions of the door, the "extruding plate" the location of the door and the type (purpose) of area the door accesses.

Give me a call on 021 2279518 to explain your foolishness in person. I could use a good laugh. :baby:

[Usarka]

That is Occupational Health and Safery by the sounds rather than building code. You should have reported it to the person who you were seeing or the health and safety person of the business/organisation. Those things should not be at head height .... that is a huge issue, and I would make it that ... it is a danger to anyone. If they will not listen contact department of Labour OSH people - they should be able to deal with it.

The main part of the letter I recieved:

Due to structural issues the door is 30 cm lower than standard doors. In addition the security lock is attached to the side of the door instead of the top of the door which is usual practice. We are sorry that you sustained a knock to the head.

:Pokey:

[flyingcrocodile46]

20 years since I worked construction but 'Leaky what' was that?


A snide and inappropriate remark born of ignorance of the subject matter. How Arsetrailering.

All buildings leak. The only reason we have a "Leaky building disaster" is that the timber treatment was decreed to be unnecessary. Arsetrailer doesn't treat it's timber either they just have less rain and humidity.

[Nasty]

The main part of the letter I recieved:

Due to structural issues the door is 30 cm lower than standard doors. In addition the security lock is attached to the side of the door instead of the top of the door which is usual practice. We are sorry that you sustained a knock to the head.

:Pokey:

Letter - from the building people? I would still question it with OSH ... it does appear to lower than it should be if someone can walk into it its a safety issue - I hate cop-outs!

[flyingcrocodile46]

That is Occupational Health and Safery by the sounds rather than building code. You should have reported it to the person who you were seeing or the health and safety person of the business/organisation. Those things should not be at head height .... that is a huge issue, and I would make it that ... it is a danger to anyone. If they will not listen contact department of Labour OSH people - they should be able to deal with it.

What he said

[Big Dave]

A snide and inappropriate remark born of ignorance of the subject matter. How Arsetrailering.

All buildings leak. The only reason we have a "Leaky building disaster" is that the timber treatment was decreed to be unnecessary. Arsetrailer doesn't treat it's timber either they just have less rain and humidity.

Yerrs. A wind-up indeed. Mainly it's head heights I was referring too.
There are several public places, restaurants even, of relatively new construction in Auckland that have simply dangerous egress for anyone over 185-190cm tall.

Although some of the rectifications I had to do on my own property when purchased were pretty 'interesting' too.

[slofox]

Try being over six foot two. (And rotate that smiley 90 degrees anti-clockwise)

What I mean is, every time I have tried to build something I have just about given up in despair because of the amount of red tape that suddenly appears AND the amount of money required to make that tape disappear...28 gazillion stupid regulations, inspections, applications, fees etc etc etc to be complied with...nothing about clonking your head though...

[flyingcrocodile46]

What I mean is, every time I have tried to build something I have just about given up in despair because of the amount of red tape that suddenly appears AND the amount of money required to make that tape disappear...28 gazillion stupid regulations, inspections, applications, fees etc etc etc to be complied with...nothing about clonking your head though...

The Nats are gonna slash a lot of that tape and replace it with more :clap:

[Usarka]

What I mean is, every time I have tried to build something I have just about given up in despair because of the amount of red tape that suddenly appears AND the amount of money required to make that tape disappear...28 gazillion stupid regulations, inspections, applications, fees etc etc etc to be complied with...nothing about clonking your head though...

Couldn't agree more.

But a metal plate head-height on a swinging door at a workplace that deals with sick people (including those with head injuries????)

kind'a funny really....

[Big Dave]

What I mean is, every time I have tried to build something I have just about given up in despair because of the amount of red tape that suddenly appears AND the amount of money required to make that tape disappear...28 gazillion stupid regulations, inspections, applications, fees etc etc etc to be complied with...nothing about clonking your head though...

Yes mate I know exactly what you mean.
I spent several years designing new housing estates in 3 States. Cyclone regs in Qld to roof pitches for snow in Tassie.

OT
Made me look back - I used to enjoy this type of drawing. The designing was just 'tetris'. But knocking out the illustrations were tres cool.

[slofox]

Couldn't agree more.

But a metal plate head-height on a swinging door at a workplace that deals with sick people (including those with head injuries????)

kind'a funny really....

summat to do with "tall poppy syndrome"..?

[YellowDog]

It sounds like we are confusing Building Regulations with Heath and Safety Standards.

NZ Health & Safety = Phone ACC if you hurt yourself.

NZ's Heath and Safety standards must be the worst of any developed country in the world.

Those poor buggers who were killed yesterday when the house they were moving collapsed on their heads Are testement to this unfortunate fact.

It could not have happened anywhere else in the developed world as they have methods and safety standards.

Those poor Aussies who were hit when an ice shelf hit them on the head. Again, this couldn't have happened else where. Saying "Didn't they read the sign?" would not stop a multi-million dollar law suit.

If you don't know any better, then it is all just fine..........

[Big Dave]

It sounds like we are confusing Building Regulations with Heath and Safety Standards.

They should be the same really?

And yes. agree that tragedy yesterday was far more grievous than the unfortunate celebrities. poor buggers.

[BMWST?]

It sounds like we are confusing Building Regulations with Heath and Safety Standards.

NZ Health & Safety = Phone ACC if you hurt yourself.

NZ's Heath and Safety standards must be the worst of any developed country in the world.

Those poor buggers who were killed yesterday when the house they were moving collapsed on their heads Are testement to this unfortunate fact.

It could not have happened anywhere else in the developed world as they have methods and safety standards.

Those poor Aussies who were hit when an ice shelf hit them on the head. Again, this couldn't have happened else where. Saying "Didn't they read the sign?" would not stop a multi-million dollar law suit.

If you don't know any better, then it is all just fine..........

the house was knocked of its temporary foundations by a large digger which appeared to have collapsed the bank it was working on.

Something is wrong with that door...I dont think any door would be 30 cm (thats a foot in old terms) lower than the normal 1980 mm

Untreated timber was not the problem but really leaky buildings.We have been building with untreated timber for years.It was poor design and poor practise(no window flashings,butt jointing 7mm sheets with no rear flashing,no contract supervision,decks built flush with floors with no means of drainage...
Treated timber would not of solved the problem,just transferred it to other surfaces.It would have made repairs cheaper tho(as long as it wasnt left to long)The timber treatment typically used in timber framing would still allow timber(when wet for LONG periods of time to rot).The other part of the problem was the lack of ventilation to dry the whole thing out.

[Big Dave]

t

Untreated timber was not the problem but really leaky buildings.We have been building with untreated timber for years.It was poor design and poor practise(no window flashings,butt jointing 7mm sheets with no rear flashing,no contract supervision,decks built flush with floors with no means of drainage...

In contravention of the building code?

[Ixion]

For around half a century (ever since they stopped using heart totara for framing) EVERYBODY who ever picked up a hammer knew you didn't use untreated pinus radiata for permanent work.

Then some brain dead rooster in Wellington comes out and says "Oh, it's OK, all good to use untreated". Completely coincidental that a certain huge corporation made millions as a result of that decision of course. And EVERYBODY who ever picked up a hammer knew that it would inevitably end in tears. Just a matter of time. The chippies building those houses with untreated knew they would rot. Not their decision, and nobody would listen to them

Every wooden framed house ever built leaks. Sooner or later. Timber needs to be rot resistant for as long as it take to dry out. Pretending that you can use untreated pinus and seal the building so tight that it never leaks is just bullshit.

Got a leaky house? Blame an unholy alliance between that certain corporation and the Greens.

And I am sure the door would not have been 30cm lower than standard. You'd have to be a dwarf to get through it. Maybe 3 cm , 30mm ?

[Usarka]

Here is a photo of the incident.

[cowpoos]

Was at a public sector premises and smacked myself in the head when opening a door that had a metal plate extruding at head height.

I have an idea....how about you watch where your going...using your eyes...and take responsibility for your own actions?? and when you stuff up...don't blame someone else...LEARN from it!!

Just like riding a bike??? wadddya fink?

[cowpoos]

The main part of the letter I recieved:

Due to structural issues the door is 30 cm lower than standard doors. In addition the security lock is attached to the side of the door instead of the top of the door which is usual practice. We are sorry that you sustained a knock to the head.

:Pokey:
Whats your address??? I have a huge bag of cotton wool to send you and a whole king size roll of bubble wrap!

[Headbanger]

All you can do is ask to fill out an incident report, This goes into their permanent file and they are obligated to consider it a hazard and to analyse the risk of another such incident. if in the future someone gets hurt seriously* from the same hazard due to their in-action then they get kicked in the pocket.

You can ring OSH and tell them whacked your head if you like, But they don't have the resources to look into such a minor incident, Nor could they do much apart from perhaps ask for a sign to be put on the door way alerting people to the hazard.

*You may want to look up the current definition of serious harm and see if your injury qualifies, In which case the organisation is obligated by law to notify OSH.

[Usarka]

I have an idea....how about you watch where your going...using your eyes...and take responsibility for your own actions?? and when you stuff up...don't blame someone else...LEARN from it!!

Just like riding a bike??? wadddya fink?

my balance atttention and depth perception are fucked after an accident. Hopefully temporarily, but is why i was visiting said place. Read my other posts, I normally wouldn't worry etc etc but I want to stir them up for a number of reasons.

And no I'm not riding at the moment because of it.

But the bubble wrap might keep me entertained while sitting home on a saturday.....

[Headbanger]

Those poor buggers who were killed yesterday when the house they were moving collapsed on their heads Are testement to this unfortunate fact.

It could not have happened anywhere else in the developed world as they have methods and safety standards.


They would have reduced the risk and perhaps saved there own lives if they had followed their obligations under current OSH law and carried out hazard identification and management and ensured proper practise was followed, and that capable people were in the right positions, Like the fuckin retard in the digger.

[Big Dave]

I have an idea....how about you watch where your going...using your eyes...and take responsibility for your own actions?? and when you stuff up...don't blame someone else...LEARN from it!!

Just like riding a bike??? wadddya fink?


The one that nearly impacted my dandruff was leaving a Thai or Indian (I don't remember) Restaurant near the corner of Greenlane and Manukau Roads.

Walking through the shoulder height passageway was cool entering.

The overhanging stairs were not so noticable when leaving and quite well fucked up.

I missed them, but commented at the time - in a brand new-ish building - 'Where is the building code here?'

[YellowDog]

They would have reduced the risk and perhaps saved there own lives if they had followed their obligations under current OSH law and carried out hazard identification and management and ensured proper practise was followed, and that capable people were in the right positions, Like the fuckin retard in the digger.
Yes you are quite right. But if there were proper H & S systems in place these guys would never have been under the house in the first place. It ain't safe. Accidents happen and a digger going AWOL should not be enough to result in deaths.

Fortunately Motorcycling has better safety standards.

[cowpoos]

I missed them, but commented at the time - in a brand new-ish building - 'Where is the building code here?'

That is odd...there are laws and guidelines on heights of objects etc...right down to heights of stair case rails etc...I'll see if I can find a few laws on that.

but...you realise...your height is genetically superior when compared to the average Bob.

[cowpoos]

That is odd...there are laws and guidelines on heights of objects etc...right down to heights of stair case rails etc...I'll see if I can find a few laws on that.

but...you realise...your height is genetically superior when compared to the average Bob.
Here are PDF's to alot of the compliances to the building code.

http://www.dbh.govt.nz/compliance-docs-get-copies

as for references to height http://www.dbh.govt.nz/UserFiles/File/Publications/Building/Compliance-documents/clause-d1.pdf

and

http://www.dbh.govt.nz/codewords-28-7

[Headbanger]

Yes you are quite right. But if there were proper H & S systems in place these guys would never have been under the house in the first place. It ain't safe. Accidents happen and a digger going AWOL should not be enough to result in deaths.

Fortunately Motorcycling has better safety standards.

The systems are there, They ignored them. Its all in the health and safety act. Which they and the company they work for are lawfully bound to follow.

If you want to compare it to riding bikes, Then its like doing 200km/h with no helmet and no brakes then blaming the laws you ignored for the resulting carnage. Would you do put yourself at risk like that for $15 an hour?

The location of the digger should have been identified as a hazard and moved, as should the systems they had in place for jacking up the house, and the weather.

[BMWST?]

Yes you are quite right. But if there were proper H & S systems in place these guys would never have been under the house in the first place. It ain't safe. Accidents happen and a digger going AWOL should not be enough to result in deaths.

Fortunately Motorcycling has better safety standards.

tell me how you can lower a relocated building onto its new foundations without actually going under it?.

[Big Dave]

That is odd...there are laws and guidelines on heights of objects etc...right down to heights of stair case rails etc...I'll see if I can find a few laws on that.

but...you realise...your height is genetically superior when compared to the average Bob.

Superior? - not for motorcycle racing - I guess there are codes - and there is adherence to the code, too.

[Big Dave]

Here is a photo of the incident.

New avatar dude.

[Headbanger]

And based on what I just saw on TV, I'll take back all my assumptions and wait and see what the OSH investigation turns up.

[flyingcrocodile46]

For around half a century (ever since they stopped using heart totara for framing) EVERYBODY who ever picked up a hammer knew you didn't use untreated pinus radiata for permanent work.

Then some brain dead rooster in Wellington comes out and says "Oh, it's OK, all good to use untreated". Completely coincidental that a certain huge corporation made millions as a result of that decision of course. And EVERYBODY who ever picked up a hammer knew that it would inevitably end in tears. Just a matter of time. The chippies building those houses with untreated knew they would rot. Not their decision, and nobody would listen to them

Every wooden framed house ever built leaks. Sooner or later. Timber needs to be rot resistant for as long as it take to dry out. Pretending that you can use untreated pinus and seal the building so tight that it never leaks is just bullshit.

Got a leaky house? Blame an unholy alliance between that certain corporation and the Greens.

And I am sure the door would not have been 30cm lower than standard. You'd have to be a dwarf to get through it. Maybe 3 cm , 30mm ?


+1 for someone who appears to actually know something about the real issues.

Quite correct, they always did and will leak. The issue is not that they leak... the real issue is the damage caused by (in most cases, very minor) leaks and the cost to fix them. That's where untreated timber comes into play... fixing the leak doesn't fix the decayed or at risk timber. The price of "stopping the leaks" is a very small part of the cost. Approx 75% to 90% of the cost of the repairs is purely down to the remediation of the decayed/untreated framing.

It ain't fair to blame designers, developers, builders or building consent authorities for the costs associated with down grading the durability of timber framing. That blame lays squarely with the likes of CCH and other industry players for manipulating the market into thinking that untreated timber was the way to go (kindly sponsoring their employees to provide their services to the standards association to get it mandated) together with the BIA and standards association (Govt) for allowing (mandating) that it was acceptable to use untreated framing.

Wankers

Cladding failures are to be (and should be) expected. If the structural materials met the durability requirements mandated in NZBC B2 New Zealanders wouldn't know what the fuck "Leaky Building Syndrome" was.

Blame the government for 80% of the cost. That is where the blame lies. It is morally reprehensible that they indemnified the building industry authority (BIA) and BRANZ and then encourage a litigious process that makes victims out of everyone (even a concrete placer that pours a concrete drive where a home owner tells him to put it, gets shafted for $50,000.00) Where is the justice in that??? Fuck them

[flyingcrocodile46]

tell me how you can lower a relocated building onto its new foundations without actually going under it?.

What's your budget to do the job and what's your budget for the logistics plan?

[Big Dave]

A budget for making a plan? Nice. I wish I could charge that.


>>foundations without actually going under it?<<

Could you lift the floorboards?

[flyingcrocodile46]

A budget for making a plan? Nice. I wish I could charge that.


>>foundations without actually going under it?<<

Could you lift the floorboards?

You're onto it. If it's a straight forward flat site with lowish height bearers and subfloor bracing (installed and fixed to piles before siting house over them) a few carefully located holes in the flooring would give the required access to complete the job from above. It is then safe to enter under it (barring being situated adjacent to un-retained excavations surcharged with heavy live loads)

That'll be $150 + GST thanks :done:

[Big Dave]

That'll be $150 + GST thanks :done:


It's that old yarn about the engineer who charges $100 to hit a boiler with a hammer. It's not the hitting - it's knowing where to hit.

Cool - that lines up nicely with PR opp. You only owe me 50. :-)

[geestring]

site forman should have his arse kicked. first major rule on any site, hard hat and hi vizz, did you fill out a report. osh will love to hear about this im sure. sorry to hear about it though.

[cowpoos]

Superior? - not for motorcycle racing - I guess there are codes - and there is adherence to the code, too.

well..yes...if their is no building consent...you can do what you like...its not legit, but it happens...how ever if you have a building consent/s from local council or territorial athority.. you ave to have you works/building inspected at various stages...otherwise no code of compliance is given...

[CookMySock]

Next time you are there, take a fifteen inch crescent with you, and lever the fucker right off the doorway. Say "oops, sorry about that" and go back to what you were doing without a blink. Maybe write them a letter and tell them you are "sorry their door latch thing got fucked up by my crescent."

The thing I discovered recently, is people will do as they choose and if it impacts you in any way they will go "oh, sorry" and then they will do nothing. There is an easy fix for this, and that is to do the same in return. It's funny watching the incredulous look on their faces.

Steve

[mynameis]

Hey Arse Biscuit nice avatar :lol:

[Big Dave]

I'm just enjoying reading 'Headbanger' after some of my posts.

[SPman]

Sorry buscuits I can't be helpful other than to say that coming from Aus - there ARE no building codes here.
There are....a whole book load of them - pity few builders seem to take any notice of them......

[SPman]

That is Occupational Health and Safery by the sounds rather than building code. You should have reported it to the person who you were seeing or the health and safety person of the business/organisation. Those things should not be at head height .... that is a huge issue, and I would make it that ... it is a danger to anyone. If they will not listen contact department of Labour OSH people - they should be able to deal with it.
What she said. As an ex inspector - that is the sort of thing we check and it shouldn't have been passed - I wouldn't have!

[Usarka]

Picture of the door attached. Anyone seen Being John Malkovich......?

[The Stranger]

Anyone know about osh etc?

Was at a public sector premises and smacked myself in the head when opening a door that had a metal plate extruding at head height.


Fortunately it was public sector and not private. Were it private OSH could prosecute. However as the govt can't be expected to abide by the same laws as us, they are immune from prosecution.

OSH however can inspect and request they remedy it.

[Maha]

Picture of the door attached. Anyone seen Being John Malkovich......?

'Bang Bang, on the door Baby''..............:wari:

[flyingcrocodile46]

Picture of the door attached. Anyone seen Being John Malkovich......?

Given the limitations that they had to work within they could have done worse. The Mag lock doesn't suit vertical installation.

They could have installed it horizontally with custom brackets, but it would have been a hazard for tallish people.

They probably concluded that the side was a safer option as people usually walk through the middle of openings (giving way rather than pushing past someone else) and that only an idiot with his shoulder hard to the edge and head inclined toward the bracket could be expected to actually bang his head on it.

If you feel that it isn't right, you could always whine about it and post pictures to prove it.... Oh! you already have :rofl:


Carry on

[cowpoos]

'Bang Bang, on the door Baby''..............:wari:
I can't hear you!!!

[Big Dave]

I see, Biscuits. You just have to be smarter than the door.

[Usarka]

They probably concluded that the side was a safer option as people usually walk through the middle of openings (giving way rather than pushing past someone else) and that only an idiot with his shoulder hard to the edge and head inclined toward the bracket could be expected to actually bang his head on it.


The protruding bit is on the door. It swinged and hit me!


I see, Biscuits. You just have to be smarter than the door.

Ah so. Wax on, wax off.....