What the heck bike is THAT?

[FROSTY]

In a local honda shop today I spotted a strange looking bike.
It looked like a vfr800 or a super scooter that an elephant had sat on the front of.
Closer look and its a 750 v twin shaft drive with triple disks.
Hang on --wheres the clutch? No clutch, its tiptronic.
--er ok.
I asked if it was a scooter and got told nope its a concept bike kinda a cruiser.
Anyone seen the darn thing --and what the heck is it??

[James Deuce]

It's a 650 and it's a DN-01 (http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/2009-honda-dn01-review-quick-ride-88080.html).

[Big Dave]

The confusing vehicle.

The technical information that came with the Honda DN-01 was far more comprehensive than anything I’ve ever picked up with a bike before.

The Team at Blue Wing handed me a pack that contained around 40! pages of schematic diagrams and exploded views of the machine.

Spok Voice: ‘They are simply fascinating, Captain.’

I didn’t appreciate them fully until I’d been living with the bike for a week.

Note that I called it a bike, and not without due consideration.

I didn’t have any issues with it, rather that defining exactly what this vehicle actually ‘is’ becomes subject to some debate, because this is quite a unique machine.

Honda proclaims quite prominently in the preface to those forty attached pages that ‘The DN-01 is most certainly a motorcycle’.

With a 680cc, liquid cooled 4-stroke engine with 8 valves, SOHC, 52 degree V-Twin, running a compression ratio of 10:1 and knocking out 45kw @ 7,500rpm and 64Nm @ 6,000 rpm it has ‘mid-power motorcycle’ numbers. (For comparison a Bonneville has 50kw and 69nm). It’s the same unit that lives in the Transalp and the Deauville Hondas.

The Front 130/70 ZR17 and rear 190/50 ZR17 tyres (Yeah – 190 section) are cruiser-motorcycle-like. As are the combined high performance anti-lock brakes with twin 296mm 6 pots up front and 276mm 4 pot at rear. Leaning on the rear pedal also brings some of the front brakes into play.

The double cradle steel tube frame the bike employs under the motorcycle size bodywork is also quite conventional.

Complemented by a 1650mm wheelbase and 28 degree steering angle, it all adds up to give the DN-01 the road manners of a sweet handling road bike. I found myself enjoying cornering and employing the better-than-a-cruiser ground clearance.

The ergonomics, seat comfort and riding position are all as good as the most comfortable of cruisers and are very relaxed.

The single sided swingarm and really wonderful shaft drive unit are big-motorcycle grade and the performance of the pro-link mono shock rear and 41mm front forks are also up to nice-bike par.

The more bikes I ride, the less stock I put in the importance of overall weight of a road bike. More important is the centre of gravity. If you are newbie to riding and prone to rookie mistakes like parking downhill you might notice it, but I was surprised to look at the spec sheet and discover a slightly porky 269kg. I only found it light and easy.

And that is where all this ‘motorcycle comparison’ leads to.

Easy.

The Ed’s first utterances after his initial ride out to our photo shoot was ‘this is the easiest bike to ride that I have ever ridden.’ I was greatly relieved to hear it because that was exactly what I had been spruiking to all and sundry who questioned nature of the bike.

It is remarkably, ‘scooterishly’ easy to ride and it achieves this in several ways.

Firstly there is all that bona fide motorcycle running gear that can handle surface inconsistencies, potholes and bumps like no 14” wheeled scoot can.

Then there are the ergonomics and ride feel that the crazily swept-back handlebars and cruiser style seating position give the rider. Supremely relaxed and really ‘big Scooter’ easy.

Then there is the gearbox. I’m prepared to call the DN-01 a landmark vehicle – simply because of the gearbox. A good number of the 40 techno pages are about it.

How history judges it remains to be seen, but along my motorcycle journey I’ll mark it as the first viable automatic motorcycle I’ve ridden.

What a unit. No clutch, no foot operated gear selector, and with a selection of three modes and six gears ‘triptronic’ at the push of a few buttons.

What tended to marginalise the riders I spoke to about the machine was the styling and the ‘why do I need an automatic – changing gears is integral to my motorcycling experience’ factor.

Typically, the styling is Scooter like in some ways and uniquely DN-01 in others. There is a scooter style integration to the passenger accommodations (that the co-pilot rated as ‘good’) but the view from the cockpit had me thinking surf ski.

The long, low slung bodywork evoked sharks and ‘Aliens’ I quite enjoyed the looks and the double takes it inspired. It’s got some neat – and some totally unique – lines.

But it really is about that gearbox. The HFT. Human Friendly Transmission.

OK. Divorce yourself from the notion of a sports motorcycle and concentrate on economical, reliable, urban transportation.

Both the Ed and I missed turnoffs on route because we were so relaxed and chillin’ riding the thing.

Naturally we remained ever vigilant to the dangers that two wheel transport entails, but the DN-01 is so effortless you kind of forget about having to ride it. It really is genuine twist and go effortless transportation in a new system.

Honda says that ‘The HFT is an infinitely variable automatic transmission device that transmits the drive power and shifts the transmission by converting the engine power into hydraulic pressure.

In addition to the Automatic transmission function the HFT also operates the Starting clutch, Lockup mechanism and the Neutral Drive Clutch.

The starting clutch engages when turning the bike over, the lockup mechanism proves ‘better drive’ from the transmission and the Neutral/drive clutch is engaged by the rider when stationary.

There are three buttons to control the gearbox. The N-D switch on the right hand switch block puts the bike in neutral or drive modes. Engage neutral at traffic light or when stopped for longer periods.

Then via a switch on the left hand switchblock either Economy or Sports modes of variable ratio automatic are selectable.

Further to that, a trigger on the right had turns the whole affair into a push button 6 speed tripronic for out and out sports riding. At which the DN-01 also makes a pretty good show.

Pulling away from the traffic lights has a certain Scooterish feel – no matter what mode is selected, it winds up, until you look in the mirrors and see how far the cars behind the cars are in your mirrors are. Then glance down at the futuristic dash board nestled inside the bodywork. S***! 85!

All the ease of a scooter and the performance of a mid power motorcycle.

It makes running around town a breeze. I used it for the day to day chores of my graphics business around Auckland and loved it. Just so easy.

I’d like to see some sort of carrying capacity built in, a top box or other option would be good. As standard there is space for a cable lock under the seat and that’s all.

But getting back to easy transport and it’s simply outstanding.

The motorcycle running gear means that it’s quite comfortable at open road touring speeds and carving up the freeways. It’s very stable and with tidy road manners and the ability to carry pace that surprised me.

It will make a great ‘graduation’ bike, is marvelous urban transport, has unique and individual styling and offers a glimpse of the future of 2 wheeled automatics.

Confusing and exceptionally nifty – all at the same time.

["D" FZ1]

Well, that should clarify things.

[The Pastor]

the confusing vehicle.

The technical information that came with the honda dn-01 was far more comprehensive than anything i’ve ever picked up with a bike before.

The team at blue wing handed me a pack that contained around 40! Pages of schematic diagrams and exploded views of the machine.

Spok voice: ‘they are simply fascinating, captain.’

i didn’t appreciate them fully until i’d been living with the bike for a week.

Note that i called it a bike, and not without due consideration.

I didn’t have any issues with it, rather that defining exactly what this vehicle actually ‘is’ becomes subject to some debate, because this is quite a unique machine.

Honda proclaims quite prominently in the preface to those forty attached pages that ‘the dn-01 is most certainly a motorcycle’.

With a 680cc, liquid cooled 4-stroke engine with 8 valves, sohc, 52 degree v-twin, running a compression ratio of 10:1 and knocking out 45kw @ 7,500rpm and 64nm @ 6,000 rpm it has ‘mid-power motorcycle’ numbers. (for comparison a bonneville has 50kw and 69nm). It’s the same unit that lives in the transalp and the deauville hondas.

The front 130/70 zr17 and rear 190/50 zr17 tyres (yeah – 190 section) are cruiser-motorcycle-like. As are the combined high performance anti-lock brakes with twin 296mm 6 pots up front and 276mm 4 pot at rear. Leaning on the rear pedal also brings some of the front brakes into play.

The double cradle steel tube frame the bike employs under the motorcycle size bodywork is also quite conventional.

Complemented by a 1650mm wheelbase and 28 degree steering angle, it all adds up to give the dn-01 the road manners of a sweet handling road bike. I found myself enjoying cornering and employing the better-than-a-cruiser ground clearance.

The ergonomics, seat comfort and riding position are all as good as the most comfortable of cruisers and are very relaxed.

The single sided swingarm and really wonderful shaft drive unit are big-motorcycle grade and the performance of the pro-link mono shock rear and 41mm front forks are also up to nice-bike par.

The more bikes i ride, the less stock i put in the importance of overall weight of a road bike. More important is the centre of gravity. If you are newbie to riding and prone to rookie mistakes like parking downhill you might notice it, but i was surprised to look at the spec sheet and discover a slightly porky 269kg. I only found it light and easy.

And that is where all this ‘motorcycle comparison’ leads to.

Easy.

The ed’s first utterances after his initial ride out to our photo shoot was ‘this is the easiest bike to ride that i have ever ridden.’ i was greatly relieved to hear it because that was exactly what i had been spruiking to all and sundry who questioned nature of the bike.

It is remarkably, ‘scooterishly’ easy to ride and it achieves this in several ways.

Firstly there is all that bona fide motorcycle running gear that can handle surface inconsistencies, potholes and bumps like no 14” wheeled scoot can.

Then there are the ergonomics and ride feel that the crazily swept-back handlebars and cruiser style seating position give the rider. Supremely relaxed and really ‘big scooter’ easy.

Then there is the gearbox. I’m prepared to call the dn-01 a landmark vehicle – simply because of the gearbox. A good number of the 40 techno pages are about it.

How history judges it remains to be seen, but along my motorcycle journey i’ll mark it as the first viable automatic motorcycle i’ve ridden.

What a unit. No clutch, no foot operated gear selector, and with a selection of three modes and six gears ‘triptronic’ at the push of a few buttons.

What tended to marginalise the riders i spoke to about the machine was the styling and the ‘why do i need an automatic – changing gears is integral to my motorcycling experience’ factor.

Typically, the styling is scooter like in some ways and uniquely dn-01 in others. There is a scooter style integration to the passenger accommodations (that the co-pilot rated as ‘good’) but the view from the cockpit had me thinking surf ski.

The long, low slung bodywork evoked sharks and ‘aliens’ i quite enjoyed the looks and the double takes it inspired. It’s got some neat – and some totally unique – lines.

But it really is about that gearbox. The hft. Human friendly transmission.

Ok. Divorce yourself from the notion of a sports motorcycle and concentrate on economical, reliable, urban transportation.

Both the ed and i missed turnoffs on route because we were so relaxed and chillin’ riding the thing.

Naturally we remained ever vigilant to the dangers that two wheel transport entails, but the dn-01 is so effortless you kind of forget about having to ride it. It really is genuine twist and go effortless transportation in a new system.

Honda says that ‘the hft is an infinitely variable automatic transmission device that transmits the drive power and shifts the transmission by converting the engine power into hydraulic pressure.

In addition to the automatic transmission function the hft also operates the starting clutch, lockup mechanism and the neutral drive clutch.

The starting clutch engages when turning the bike over, the lockup mechanism proves ‘better drive’ from the transmission and the neutral/drive clutch is engaged by the rider when stationary.

There are three buttons to control the gearbox. The n-d switch on the right hand switch block puts the bike in neutral or drive modes. Engage neutral at traffic light or when stopped for longer periods.

Then via a switch on the left hand switchblock either economy or sports modes of variable ratio automatic are selectable.

Further to that, a trigger on the right had turns the whole affair into a push button 6 speed tripronic for out and out sports riding. At which the dn-01 also makes a pretty good show.

Pulling away from the traffic lights has a certain scooterish feel – no matter what mode is selected, it winds up, until you look in the mirrors and see how far the cars behind the cars are in your mirrors are. Then glance down at the futuristic dash board nestled inside the bodywork. S***! 85!

All the ease of a scooter and the performance of a mid power motorcycle.

It makes running around town a breeze. I used it for the day to day chores of my graphics business around auckland and loved it. Just so easy.

I’d like to see some sort of carrying capacity built in, a top box or other option would be good. As standard there is space for a cable lock under the seat and that’s all.

But getting back to easy transport and it’s simply outstanding.

The motorcycle running gear means that it’s quite comfortable at open road touring speeds and carving up the freeways. It’s very stable and with tidy road manners and the ability to carry pace that surprised me.

It will make a great ‘graduation’ bike, is marvelous urban transport, has unique and individual styling and offers a glimpse of the future of 2 wheeled automatics.

Confusing and exceptionally nifty – all at the same time.
yeah but can it wheelie?

[Ixion]

Oh. Another one of them things. :yawn:

[Mully]

What were you doing in a Honda shop, Frosty??

Something Jorja needs to know about, perhaps?

[bogan]

The more bikes I ride, the less stock I put in the importance of overall weight of a road bike. More important is the centre of gravity. If you are newbie to riding and prone to rookie mistakes like parking downhill you might notice it, but I was surprised to look at the spec sheet and discover a slightly porky 269kg. I only found it light and easy.

Interesting, i read the tech specs a few weeks ago and assumed itd be shit cos of the porkyness. Guess the CVT helps quite a bit with acceleration, though why its being used as a tiptronic 6 speed confuses me somewhat.

[riffer]

yeah but can it wheelie?

Of course not. Everybody knows shafties can't wheelie.

[Big Dave]

Copy and paste are my friends.

Loses a bit without the supporting pics and diagrams sorry.

[AllanB]

Yeah but what fucking colour was it?

[Del Fuego]

Basic overview: DN01, futuristic, Automatic modern sport cruiser.

Get more attention than an elephant on fire in a shopping mall. quite nice to ride if a bit whimpy in the horsepower and aural quality departments.

[FROSTY]

Its a friggin REVERE with auto box lol.
And Mully --dude I was walking PAST a Honda shop to be precise and this thing grabbed me by the eyeballs and dragged me in--it really is that eyecatching. Dunno if its in a good or bad way.
Kinda looks like the Batbike from movie world.

[Deano]

This thread is nothing without pictures.

[junkmanjoe]

is this the one we talking about,, looks quite slick.

[Horse]

This thread is nothing without pictures.

If only there was some vast global information network that gave us access to that sort of information right at our desktop, and then what if there was some kind of Finding Machine (http://google.com) that could find things for us on that network? That'd be pretty sweet...

GIYF (http://justfuckinggoogleit.com/). Srsly. (http://images.google.co.nz/images?q=honda%20dn-01)

[varminter]

Tiptronic gear change, that should make waving easier. Well someone was going to say it.

[Deano]

If only there was some vast global information network that gave us access to that sort of information right at our desktop, and then what if there was some kind of Finding Machine (http://google.com) that could find things for us on that network? That'd be pretty sweet...

GIYF (http://justfuckinggoogleit.com/). Srsly. (http://images.google.co.nz/images?q=honda%20dn-01)

Yeah but I'm fucking lazy. Your point was ? LOL

[Big Dave]

Interesting, i read the tech specs a few weeks ago and assumed itd be shit cos of the porkyness. Guess the CVT helps quite a bit with acceleration, though why its being used as a tiptronic 6 speed confuses me somewhat.

Feels like you are in control - particularly if you want to flog it.

[2wheeldrifter]

is this the one we talking about,, looks quite slick.

Your right,
It does look quite sick.... :yes:

[Swoop]

Makes the VFR1200 look "svelte"...

[James Deuce]

It's not a CVT transmission.

[bogan]

It's not a CVT transmission.


But its engine is very much a motorcycle unit, the easy-going if rather unexciting 680cc V-twin found in the Deauville tourer, detuned to a soporific but new-licence-friendly 33bhp, and final drive is by shaft rather than the belt commonly used on scooters. Between the two is a first for a two-wheeler: a fully variable, automatic transmission dependent on hydraulics rather than the usual belts and variable diameter pulleys. It's certainly clever, using a swash plate (a disc mounted centrally on the end of a drive shaft, tilted like a wobbling plate) to drive hydraulic pumps that in turn drive hydraulic motors to power the rear wheel. The swash plate's angle is varied by an ECU-controlled solenoid, effectively altering the gearing automatically.

from here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/motorbikes/scooters/2751990/Honda-DN-01-Phantom-of-the-Honda.html)

certainly sounds like the internals are a cvt, even though it is used a a tiptronic. I thought you would getter better acceleration using the cvt as it should be used, and holding the revs at max hp.

[ManDownUnder]

is this the one we talking about,, looks quite slick.

So does an eel in a bucket of snot... but that don't mean I want to take it home...

[ManDownUnder]

Tiptronic gear change, that should make waving easier. Well someone was going to say it.

Yeah I can see that happening

Waving waving waving - change gear - waving - change in attitude of the rider due to power surge/drop on power change - whoops fuck - woblle WOBBLE CRUNCH... waving... from ditch... from Ambulance... from hospital bed...

[The Pastor]

Its a friggin REVERE with auto box lol.
And Mully --dude I was walking PAST a Honda shop to be precise and this thing grabbed me by the eyeballs and dragged me in--it really is that eyecatching. Dunno if its in a good or bad way.
Kinda looks like the Batbike from movie world.
it can only be a good thing mate.

[cowpatz]

An interesting concept and one we will see more of as the big scooter/ motorcycle boundaries blur. It's just I'm not really sold on the looks of this one.
Sorta looks like they borrowed a cdax spray unit off a quad and squashed it to shape.

[R6_kid]

Yeah but I'm fucking lazy. Your point was ? LOL

Sounds like you should sell the SV and buy a DN-01!

[megageoff76]

Wow, honda list the price at $23,950 :shit:

It would have to be love at first sight for that kind of coin.

[Big Dave]

Wow, honda list the price at $23,950 :shit:

It would have to be love at first sight for that kind of coin.

The Achilles. You would imagine that like most technologies it will become cheaper - after it's copied in Taiwan maybe.

[Mikkel]

Honda says that ‘The HFT is an infinitely variable automatic transmission device that transmits the drive power and shifts the transmission by converting the engine power into hydraulic pressure.

They make it sound like a fork lift... :eek5:

Sounds like a fun and carefree ride though.

[bogan]

They make it sound like a fork lift... :eek5:

Sounds like a fun and carefree ride though.

or a tractor, and we all know how fun they are to cane round in:rockon:

[slowpoke]

Sorry, but that is just a heap o' shit.

Honda have made some truly incredible machines over the years, but that thing is just a great steaming turd sitting fairly and squarely on top of their entire back catalog. That this could come out of the same factory that made the CB750, RC30, original '75 Goldwing etc brings tears to my pained eyes.

Lessee here, 60hp from a 680 wouldn't be so bad....until you slap a power sapping slushbox behind it....along with 270kg of shite bike.

And it's a "sweet handling" bike you say? With a 1650mm wheel base, 28deg rake and tyres sized to tame a 160hp sportsbike, I wonder what it is that you find "sweet" about it? That it doesn't head shake? Amazing.... It's got no ground clearance so you'll only ever use half the tyres, and a crap turning circle which is pretty bloody ordinary for supposed urban transport.

Economical transportation? In comparison to a car maybe, but it's nearly twice the price of a cheap new car, so what's the point?

And I haven't even mentioned the styling yet....

[Mikkel]

Are you trying to quit the coffee or just having a bad day? :scratch:

[slowpoke]

Are you trying to quit the coffee or just having a bad day? :scratch:

It would be a bad day if I had to ride that thing. As it is I'm just disappointed, I didn't think they made bad bikes anymore. And I'm disappointed that testers set the bar of acceptability so low, just 'cos it's different doesn't make it good.


They make it sound like a fork lift... :eek5:

Sounds like a fun and carefree ride though.

Fun? In comparison to what, pedalling? Doing a quick mental list of bikes worth close to $24,000 and every single one of 'em sounds like more fun than this.

[Drew]

Of course not. Everybody knows shafties can't wheelie.

Ah, yeah they do.

My old XJ900 would hoist off the pipe in first gear, and stay there till I was done with third.

Seen some pretty impressive efforts on Moto-Guzzi's in photo's. Impresive when one considers the crank, and drive shafts spin in the same direction, (on the older ones at least).

Never have been able to figure out why people say it cant be done...Please enlighten me.

[Mully]

And Mully --dude I was walking PAST a Honda shop to be precise and this thing grabbed me by the eyeballs and dragged me in--it really is that eyecatching.

Mmmm, and you only buy that magazine for the articles??

[Big Dave]

Sorry, but that is just a heap o' shit.



I'll take some notice when you have done 1,000km on one.

[merv]

I bet there were naysayers around too when Formula 1 cars went to pushbutton gearboxes. Do those same people not like quick shifters on bikes now? There is nothing wrong with progress I reckon and unless some manufacturer tries stuff there will be no progress.

As for these bikes they were racing around Rome in numbers when I was there in January along with all the other multitude of scooters. In the stoplight grandprix and cobble stoned road conditions of that city what was lacking in numbers were sportsbikes. They would be just too uncomfortable in those conditions.

It did surprise me too there were few dirt bikes or motards - I suspect the issue with them is high maintanence costs and lack of rider weather protection.

The DN-01 I would say is a great big-city bike for sure, a step up from a Burgman.

[nudemetalz]

Ah, yeah they do.

My old XJ900 would hoist off the pipe in first gear, and stay there till I was done with third.

Seen some pretty impressive efforts on Moto-Guzzi's in photo's. Impresive when one considers the crank, and drive shafts spin in the same direction, (on the older ones at least).

Never have been able to figure out why people say it cant be done...Please enlighten me.

Yup, I may err,...cough,..umm had my V11 up on the back wheel just to see if it can be done,...and from what I recall, Dangerous has had his LeMans up there quite a number of times !!

[slowpoke]

I'll take some notice when you have done 1,000km on one.

Nice get outta jail free card.

You and Honda both say it's a bike not a scooter, yet you haven't compared it to any other bikes. So how does it compare acceleration wise against that Bonneville who's power claims you quote?

You also reckon it makes a "pretty good show" of "out and out sports riding". In comparison to what other nearly 700cc bike? How's about that Bonneville which is some $6000 dollars cheaper......

You call it "economical, reliable, urban transportation", yet with the auto box and heavy weight it's probably quite thirsty for a bike, especially compared to other urban targetted bikes (which actually have luggage space), and I'd fuggin' expect a $24k bike to be reliable.

You seem suprised that a 680cc motorcycle can keep up with traffic for chrissakes. You'd expect far more of an SV650 or Er6n which both kick it to the kerb by almost any measure, and are only half the price.

The DN-01 wins points for ease of use, but compared to other motorcycles (which is what you/Honda claim it to be) it just doesn't stack up. Ask yourself if you'd buy one, if not why not.

Sorry Dave, you seem to have gone into this test with exceedingly low expectations of a $24,000 "motorcycle".

[pritch]

BIKE magazine put one in a hill climb and it didn't finish last. It beat a KTM six hundred and something single.

I thought it possible that the KTM might have been experiencing some technical difficulty, but that wasn't reported.

This is not mentioned to upset owners of KTM 600+ singles, but that really was the result.

[MarkH]

I'd happily ride it . . . but someone else would have to pay for it - no way I'd pay that much!

How would the Honda DN-01 compare to a Suzuki SV650S for performance? Because the Suzuki can be bought brand new for $12K (list price). I think I would rather have a clutch than pay twice as much for a bike that performs worse!

[riffer]

Never have been able to figure out why people say it cant be done...Please enlighten me.


Mate - it's an old joke. Like all Honda riders are gay. :shutup:

[Big Dave]

Sorry Dave, you seem to have gone into this test with exceedingly low expectations of a $24,000 "motorcycle".

Or an open mind.

Some guy on a litre sportsbike isn't going to like it.

Some return to riders - or experienced ones - who are looking for ease of transport/riding as paramount, and a unique, stylish vehicle will love it - and it will serve them well. It does everything well - except 200kph. That suits me just fine in a road bike too.

Peformance wise - it goes like a trans alp - and they are quite popular - solid and unremarkable.

5yrs time this type of gearbox will be an optional extra on performance motorcycles. That's what I think is most noteworthy about the vehicle.

[merv]

Some guy on a litre sportsbike isn't going to like it.


That's the point, if you don't like it, don't buy it, but no point dissing it because someone else likes it.

The comparison to a Bonneville is pointless because they are so different. I made my comments above about the streets of Rome and I can say there wasn't a Bonneville in sight for the days I was there in the middle of winter.

The DN-01 may not sell well in NZ because maybe our market doesn't need it yet.

[bogan]

if I had shitloads of cash id buy one, be fun to tinker round with the cvt, maybey turbo it. Its the first CVT bike (though not a true cvt) (that im aware of) so it can only get better, well, till the lectrics take over anyway:dodge:

[Big Dave]

Vespa calls it 'Twist and go' - that's what the Honda does - but on motorcycle scale.

[Big Dave]

That's the point, if you don't like it, don't buy it, but no point dissing it because someone else likes it.

The comparison to a Bonneville is pointless because they are so different. I made my comments above about the streets of Rome and I can say there wasn't a Bonneville in sight for the days I was there in the middle of winter.

The DN-01 may not sell well in NZ because maybe our market doesn't need it yet.

The price will hamper sales. But that doesn't seem unique to this Honda Vehicle either.

Power is similar and the road dynamics aren't *that* different to the 19" bonne.

[merv]

Yeah but no fairing and other luxuries on a Bonne wouldn't suit those wanting something a step up from a scooter which is why I say a Bonne is quite different. Sort of like comparing a DR650 to an F650 in the dirt world - built for different reasons.

[Big Dave]

Fairings are ghey.

[merv]

Haha, but nice in places like scooter crazy Rome in the winter, that's what I'm saying.

[short-circuit]

The confusing vehicle.

The technical information that came with the Honda DN-01 was far more comprehensive than anything I’ve ever picked up with a bike before.

The Team at Blue Wing handed me a pack that contained around 40! pages of schematic diagrams and exploded views of the machine.

Spok Voice: ‘They are simply fascinating, Captain.’

I didn’t appreciate them fully until I’d been living with the bike for a week.

Note that I called it a bike, and not without due consideration.

I didn’t have any issues with it, rather that defining exactly what this vehicle actually ‘is’ becomes subject to some debate, because this is quite a unique machine.

Honda proclaims quite prominently in the preface to those forty attached pages that ‘The DN-01 is most certainly a motorcycle’.

With a 680cc, liquid cooled 4-stroke engine with 8 valves, SOHC, 52 degree V-Twin, running a compression ratio of 10:1 and knocking out 45kw @ 7,500rpm and 64Nm @ 6,000 rpm it has ‘mid-power motorcycle’ numbers. (For comparison a Bonneville has 50kw and 69nm). It’s the same unit that lives in the Transalp and the Deauville Hondas.

The Front 130/70 ZR17 and rear 190/50 ZR17 tyres (Yeah – 190 section) are cruiser-motorcycle-like. As are the combined high performance anti-lock brakes with twin 296mm 6 pots up front and 276mm 4 pot at rear. Leaning on the rear pedal also brings some of the front brakes into play.

The double cradle steel tube frame the bike employs under the motorcycle size bodywork is also quite conventional.

Complemented by a 1650mm wheelbase and 28 degree steering angle, it all adds up to give the DN-01 the road manners of a sweet handling road bike. I found myself enjoying cornering and employing the better-than-a-cruiser ground clearance.

The ergonomics, seat comfort and riding position are all as good as the most comfortable of cruisers and are very relaxed.

The single sided swingarm and really wonderful shaft drive unit are big-motorcycle grade and the performance of the pro-link mono shock rear and 41mm front forks are also up to nice-bike par.

The more bikes I ride, the less stock I put in the importance of overall weight of a road bike. More important is the centre of gravity. If you are newbie to riding and prone to rookie mistakes like parking downhill you might notice it, but I was surprised to look at the spec sheet and discover a slightly porky 269kg. I only found it light and easy.

And that is where all this ‘motorcycle comparison’ leads to.

Easy.

The Ed’s first utterances after his initial ride out to our photo shoot was ‘this is the easiest bike to ride that I have ever ridden.’ I was greatly relieved to hear it because that was exactly what I had been spruiking to all and sundry who questioned nature of the bike.

It is remarkably, ‘scooterishly’ easy to ride and it achieves this in several ways.

Firstly there is all that bona fide motorcycle running gear that can handle surface inconsistencies, potholes and bumps like no 14” wheeled scoot can.

Then there are the ergonomics and ride feel that the crazily swept-back handlebars and cruiser style seating position give the rider. Supremely relaxed and really ‘big Scooter’ easy.

Then there is the gearbox. I’m prepared to call the DN-01 a landmark vehicle – simply because of the gearbox. A good number of the 40 techno pages are about it.

How history judges it remains to be seen, but along my motorcycle journey I’ll mark it as the first viable automatic motorcycle I’ve ridden.

What a unit. No clutch, no foot operated gear selector, and with a selection of three modes and six gears ‘triptronic’ at the push of a few buttons.

What tended to marginalise the riders I spoke to about the machine was the styling and the ‘why do I need an automatic – changing gears is integral to my motorcycling experience’ factor.

Typically, the styling is Scooter like in some ways and uniquely DN-01 in others. There is a scooter style integration to the passenger accommodations (that the co-pilot rated as ‘good’) but the view from the cockpit had me thinking surf ski.

The long, low slung bodywork evoked sharks and ‘Aliens’ I quite enjoyed the looks and the double takes it inspired. It’s got some neat – and some totally unique – lines.

But it really is about that gearbox. The HFT. Human Friendly Transmission.

OK. Divorce yourself from the notion of a sports motorcycle and concentrate on economical, reliable, urban transportation.

Both the Ed and I missed turnoffs on route because we were so relaxed and chillin’ riding the thing.

Naturally we remained ever vigilant to the dangers that two wheel transport entails, but the DN-01 is so effortless you kind of forget about having to ride it. It really is genuine twist and go effortless transportation in a new system.

Honda says that ‘The HFT is an infinitely variable automatic transmission device that transmits the drive power and shifts the transmission by converting the engine power into hydraulic pressure.

In addition to the Automatic transmission function the HFT also operates the Starting clutch, Lockup mechanism and the Neutral Drive Clutch.

The starting clutch engages when turning the bike over, the lockup mechanism proves ‘better drive’ from the transmission and the Neutral/drive clutch is engaged by the rider when stationary.

There are three buttons to control the gearbox. The N-D switch on the right hand switch block puts the bike in neutral or drive modes. Engage neutral at traffic light or when stopped for longer periods.

Then via a switch on the left hand switchblock either Economy or Sports modes of variable ratio automatic are selectable.

Further to that, a trigger on the right had turns the whole affair into a push button 6 speed tripronic for out and out sports riding. At which the DN-01 also makes a pretty good show.

Pulling away from the traffic lights has a certain Scooterish feel – no matter what mode is selected, it winds up, until you look in the mirrors and see how far the cars behind the cars are in your mirrors are. Then glance down at the futuristic dash board nestled inside the bodywork. S***! 85!

All the ease of a scooter and the performance of a mid power motorcycle.

It makes running around town a breeze. I used it for the day to day chores of my graphics business around Auckland and loved it. Just so easy.

I’d like to see some sort of carrying capacity built in, a top box or other option would be good. As standard there is space for a cable lock under the seat and that’s all.

But getting back to easy transport and it’s simply outstanding.

The motorcycle running gear means that it’s quite comfortable at open road touring speeds and carving up the freeways. It’s very stable and with tidy road manners and the ability to carry pace that surprised me.

It will make a great ‘graduation’ bike, is marvelous urban transport, has unique and individual styling and offers a glimpse of the future of 2 wheeled automatics.

Confusing and exceptionally nifty – all at the same time.

They are Ghey Ghey - not just Honda Ghey.

[slowpoke]

That's the point, if you don't like it, don't buy it, but no point dissing it because someone else likes it.

The comparison to a Bonneville is pointless because they are so different. I made my comments above about the streets of Rome and I can say there wasn't a Bonneville in sight for the days I was there in the middle of winter.

The DN-01 may not sell well in NZ because maybe our market doesn't need it yet.

The tester brought up the Bonneville.....what's Rome got to do with anything....?

And if we aren't here to talk/argue about bikes why are we here? To swap cake recipes? (You wouldn't have a nice white chocolate and raspberry gateaux recipe by any chance.....?)

Take a look at an Aprilia Mana for a cheaper, more competent auto alternative, it's even got luggage space.

[Big Dave]

DN-01 should at least come standard with a top box.

[short-circuit]

DN-01 should at least come standard with a top box.

Just to ghey it up a little more

[FROSTY]

Actually Jorja loves the look of em. Low and easy to ride. Perfect for her.
Hey Big Dave you don't ned an objective second opinion test rider for this one do ya??

[Big Dave]

Actually Jorja loves the look of em. Low and easy to ride. Perfect for her.
Hey Big Dave you don't ned an objective second opinion test rider for this one do ya??


That bit is almost a year old Frosty. They have been out a while.

[Drew]

Mate - it's an old joke. Like all Honda riders are gay. :shutup:

I dont get it, Honda riders are gay.

[slowpoke]

Forget this slush box, CVT, "twist and wait" business. What would be interesting is an automated manual gearbox like BMW's SMG or Porsches PDK. Not a jap "tiptronic" which is just a manually controlled auto box but a genuine manual gear box with it's shift mechanism automated.

It's that Keith Code thing, where you've got a dollar's worth of attention to spend at every corner. Automating the gearbox would free up a bit more attention for braking, acceleration etc while still retaining the responsiveness of a manual gearbox.

[bogan]

Forget this slush box, CVT, "twist and wait" business. What would be interesting is an automated manual gearbox like BMW's SMG or Porsches PDK. Not a jap "tiptronic" which is just a manually controlled auto box but a genuine manual gear box with it's shift mechanism automated.

It's that Keith Code thing, where you've got a dollar's worth of attention to spend at every corner. Automating the gearbox would free up a bit more attention for braking, acceleration etc while still retaining the responsiveness of a manual gearbox.

I wudnt want my bike to be shifting gears without being ready for it, good way to cock it up through a corner i reckon. However a CVT would be good (used properly, like in tractors, none of this tip-tronic bs), take gears right out of the equation.

[xwhatsit]

Forget this slush box, CVT, "twist and wait" business. What would be interesting is an automated manual gearbox like BMW's SMG or Porsches PDK. Not a jap "tiptronic" which is just a manually controlled auto box but a genuine manual gear box with it's shift mechanism automated.

It's that Keith Code thing, where you've got a dollar's worth of attention to spend at every corner. Automating the gearbox would free up a bit more attention for braking, acceleration etc while still retaining the responsiveness of a manual gearbox.
Maybe. I think those automated manual boxes are better left in cars. The `good' thing about a hydraulic auto box is that shifts are cushioned; there's an element of `clutch slip' when it changes ratio that softens the transition. Of course it feels like mushy poo, but one would expect it's nice behaviour to have when banked over mid-corner and winding the accelerator on.

On the other hand, shifting up mid-corner in an automated manual box is not going to be a smooth, long transition; instead it's probably going to upset the chassis and make riding generally unpleasant.

[slowpoke]

I wudnt want my bike to be shifting gears without being ready for it, good way to cock it up through a corner i reckon. However a CVT would be good (used properly, like in tractors, none of this tip-tronic bs), take gears right out of the equation.


Maybe. I think those automated manual boxes are better left in cars. The `good' thing about a hydraulic auto box is that shifts are cushioned; there's an element of `clutch slip' when it changes ratio that softens the transition. Of course it feels like mushy poo, but one would expect it's nice behaviour to have when banked over mid-corner and winding the accelerator on.

On the other hand, shifting up mid-corner in an automated manual box is not going to be a smooth, long transition; instead it's probably going to upset the chassis and make riding generally unpleasant.

You've missed the point, YOU still have control over when/where you change gear.

The gear box does what it's told to do by YOU, not changing up/down at arbitrary points set by a computer. It's only the shift mechanism that changes, instead of throttle off, clutch in, select gear, clutch out, throttle on etc, it does it all for you at the touch of a button and in a fraction of a second. Think clutchless upshift, only quicker, where instead of prodding the gear lever you press a button. It'll even blip the throttle on downshifts to match engine revs. Up changes can be done without even backing off the throttle if you are so inclined, just like a race bike quick shifter, or you can modulate for seamless gear changes.

Most if not all automated manual gearboxes do have a fully auto function, which would still work fine for bikes, but obviously you'd ride accordingly, just as you do in a car. You don't go fanging over the 'taka's in your Porsche at 11/10's and leave it in auto, that's asking for trouble with mid-corner gear changes when you're on the limit, just as it would be on a bike.

[skidMark]

yeah but can it wheelie?


ever heard of snipping a quote scotty?

[bogan]

You've missed the point, YOU still have control over when/where you change gear.

The gear box does what it's told to do by YOU, not changing up/down at arbitrary points set by a computer. It's only the shift mechanism that changes, instead of throttle off, clutch in, select gear, clutch out, throttle on etc, it does it all for you at the touch of a button and in a fraction of a second. Think clutchless upshift, only quicker, where instead of prodding the gear lever you press a button. It'll even blip the throttle on downshifts to match engine revs. Up changes can be done without even backing off the throttle if you are so inclined, just like a race bike quick shifter, or you can modulate for seamless gear changes.

Most if not all automated manual gearboxes do have a fully auto function, which would still work fine for bikes, but obviously you'd ride accordingly, just as you do in a car. You don't go fanging over the 'taka's in your Porsche at 11/10's and leave it in auto, that's asking for trouble with mid-corner gear changes when you're on the limit, just as it would be on a bike.

So its a essentially a very quick shifting tiptronic transmission then (without the slushy), i cant see it would be that much use, shiftings so easy anyway, thinking about when to shift spends far more of my attention money than the actual act itself. But thats just me, if its just a system to optimise the clutch and shifter movements to a single button, then technically it sounds easy enough to do.

Hydraulic pump/accumulator/solenoid for the clutch, small dc motor for the shifter, little micro to control it all. So if you think its a good idea, do some market research, make prototypes etc.

[Ixion]

Forget this slush box, CVT, "twist and wait" business. What would be interesting is an automated manual gearbox like BMW's SMG or Porsches PDK. Not a jap "tiptronic" which is just a manually controlled auto box but a genuine manual gear box with it's shift mechanism automated.

It's that Keith Code thing, where you've got a dollar's worth of attention to spend at every corner. Automating the gearbox would free up a bit more attention for braking, acceleration etc while still retaining the responsiveness of a manual gearbox.


Been there done that.

Point that manufacturers always forget when they dream up these "nice easy to ride,comfortable, perfect for running around town " bikes (and I've seen them come and go many many times over the decades - right since the 30s) , is that people who buy and ride bikes don't *want* "nice easy to ride , comfortable " bikes for "running around town".

If that was what they wanted they'd either be driving a car , or, at most, riding a scooter.

Bikers ride bikes either

(a) because they want to "pose". So they buy a Harley. And bikes like this Honda don't qualify on pose; or
(b) because they enjoy the challenge of riding something that *isn't* nice and easy etc etc.

Cars (modern ones , anyway) are nice and easy to drive, comfortable etc etc. And dead boring because of it.

Bikers ride bikes to prove to themselves that they can. Part of biking is the challenge of dealing with the fact that nothing is automated. It's all down to *you* . Why else would bikers deliberately seek out the most difficult roads. Why do bikers flock to "technical" roads, when they could have a much easier more comfortable ride going down the motorway instead ? Why are the bikes that bikers lust over, or fondly remember, the ones which are hardest to ride? High tuned two strokes, f'instance.

Automate the challenge out and you automate the fun out.

[MotoKuzzi]

All technical issues aside I like the styling and I'm not a great fan of the modern bike look.

[FROSTY]

Shoot me if I'm wrong but under all the baloney and hype what Honda have created is a superscooter. Yea it looks like no scooter I've ever seen and has real wheels unlike scooters.

[MIXONE]

I'll buy one when I can no longer ride a real bike!

[Ocean1]

Automate the challenge out and you automate the fun out.

So you've grafted an Amal and Lucas mag wiv manual advance onto all yer livestock eh?

BRP's actuated 990 gearbox is a revelation, dude, it does what you'd do, if you were able. But you're not, nobody is that quick without routinely breaking gearboxes, or that reliably accurate on the throttle. Slicker'n fresh snot on a hot griddle.

[slowpoke]

Been there done that.

Point that manufacturers always forget when they dream up these "nice easy to ride,comfortable, perfect for running around town " bikes (and I've seen them come and go many many times over the decades - right since the 30s) , is that people who buy and ride bikes don't *want* "nice easy to ride , comfortable " bikes for "running around town".

If that was what they wanted they'd either be driving a car , or, at most, riding a scooter.

Bikers ride bikes either

(a) because they want to "pose". So they buy a Harley. And bikes like this Honda don't qualify on pose; or
(b) because they enjoy the challenge of riding something that *isn't* nice and easy etc etc.

Cars (modern ones , anyway) are nice and easy to drive, comfortable etc etc. And dead boring because of it.

Bikers ride bikes to prove to themselves that they can. Part of biking is the challenge of dealing with the fact that nothing is automated. It's all down to *you* . Why else would bikers deliberately seek out the most difficult roads. Why do bikers flock to "technical" roads, when they could have a much easier more comfortable ride going down the motorway instead ? Why are the bikes that bikers lust over, or fondly remember, the ones which are hardest to ride? High tuned two strokes, f'instance.

Automate the challenge out and you automate the fun out.

Yep, I know exactly what you mean, I'm not keen on an overly sanitised experience either.....a while back I bought a 40year old manual everything gas guzzler instead of a new car for chrissakes (d'oh, what the fuck was I thinkin'?!)

But I can see racers loving it, just as they love the slipper clutch that makes their lives that much easier. Something like an SMG box on a 200hp superbike would still be a pretty hair raising experience when you are pushing it.

Just as people love the older bare bones, carb'd, wind up window, air cooled Porsche 911's, there are also those who love a new porsche with it's electronically variable everything and paddle shift 'box etc. There's always a market for something that makes you faster.....although I doubt you'll ever see a bike fitted with wheelie control that you can't switch off.

[Ixion]

I would if I could!

I do have Amal carbs on some of mine, nothing wrong with Amals.

And the second worst thing they ever did was drop the manual advance and retard. Good as a second gearbox that was.

Worst thing was synchromesh on car gearboxes (I'm not even going to mention automatics - anyone who needs to drive an automatic shouldn't be entrusted with any vehicle past roller skates) . Very satisfying was a crash gearbox.

I don't ride a bike for easy comfortable transport. I ride a bke for fun. The transport is a bonus. I'm not interested in something where I just sit there like a sandbag and electowozzies do the fun bit.

[Big Dave]

Have previously posted the review of the can am spyder auto.

It uses a vacuum shifter on the manual gearbox.

Premiums: Weight 1kg. Cost 1.5K

But it is faster off the mark than the manual (or I have better reaction times than their pros)

[Big Dave]

>> is that people who buy and ride bikes don't *want* "nice easy to ride , comfortable " bikes for "running around town".<<

Suzuki seems to sell plenty of Burgmans.

[MarkH]

>> is that people who buy and ride bikes don't *want* "nice easy to ride , comfortable " bikes for "running around town".<<

Suzuki seems to sell plenty of Burgmans.

Yep - plenty of auto bikes of different types sold all over the world. I think that people that buy and ride bikes want something - not necessarily the same thing as the next person that buys and rides a bike. I suppose that's why they make cruisers & sports bikes & tourers & scooters & adventure bikes & . . .