Need help after removing alarm. No spark

[BASS-TREBLE]

Bike- 1987 FZR 1000

I bought the bike with some work needing to be done. Ran fine in garage etc and sounded happy.
The alarm started to play up, they key couldn't turn bike of, with key on it could only be started with remote starter button on alarm.
I saw the alarm as a weak point and removed the wiring, including a relay for the remote start.

Now the bike ignition works like it should when key is turned.
...But I have no spark

I have gotten hold of a wiring diagram and have spend the last 2 nights trying to find a fault/bridge/secret switch, anything, but no luck.

I don't know how alarms work, apart from the obvious that I could see when removing it. To me it seems like it has immobilized the engine, rather successfully.
It would've helped if I had experience installing and alarm, I may have been able to reverse steps, but I'm stuck.

When I push the start button
-It turns over like normal.
-There is plenty of fuel.
-The 'oil' light turns on when it is turning over. I believe it is a warning light too because when kill switch is off and starter button is pushed the light lights up. (I can't remember if the oil light was lit when I used to start her)
-No spark

This is my first FZR so I'm not aware of the usual 'FZR' things, such as what things a lit up oil light can mean.

Also, since removing the alarm, the neutral light doesn't work. It might have something to do with it....

Another weird thing is that when the ignition is turned off, there is a single spark at the plugs, which doesn't make sense to me. I don't know if it happened before removing alarm or not

I have the wiring rather exposed so nothing will be inconvenient if I need to trace something etc.

Not aware of alarm brand sorry, It just has a big logo of the world on the front cover of alarm. Will post pics tomorrow.

Help please
Dirk

[BASS-TREBLE]

Bump......

[p.dath]

I know its dumb, but you haven't got the kill switch on?

Secondly, is there any additional wiring around the kill switch that looks suspicious?

Any chance there is something shorting the ignition, (say a relay), that the alarm was powering before to allow ignition to occurr?

[BASS-TREBLE]

Kill switch looks fine.I'm going to take the right hand controls apart soon though.
It still cranks so the kill switch seems kinda normal.
There was one relay, but it was used for the remote start.

For people that know electrical, The wires other than indicators, siren, Antenna, and +ve and -ve are labeled
ACC
Q
X-D (or O)
X-S

I got these of the circuit board inside alarm

[JMemonic]

Hmm a lot of questions come to mind, but one is why remove the alarm.

Any good alarm will have an engine disable circuit, this generally consists of a relay that interrupts the power to the coil(s) or the crank sensor, this relay requires the power from the alarm which it only provides when the alarm is in place and disabled, remove the alarm and its no longer getting power to the relay and thus is does what its supposed to, stop theft and make it difficult to repair the "fault"

[BASS-TREBLE]

Reason for removing is that it played up, went of at random times. The key did nothing as far as turning bike of. I just see it as a weak point. I pushed the bike up the drive way and the alarm didn't go off when acitvated.

Am tracing wires and checking with wiring diagram now.

Thanks a lot for the ideas guys

[BASS-TREBLE]

I pretty much have the whole wiring exposed.
The wires from alarm were
2 for indicators
2 siren
1 antenna
1 +ve
1 -ve
1 to relay for remote start

1 to ignition fuse. I assume this allows it to be turned on by bypassing the key
2 soldered together at end that went to the 'head' fuse, ie.lights etc.

The last two may have been the other way around,

These are all the wires from alarm, and as far as I can see, nothing looks cut etc in wiring harness of bike.
It doesn't make sense to me either...

[p.dath]

Is the remote start relay still present? That bit sounds worthy of further investigation. If it can remote start then the same system should be able to remote kill.

[p.dath]

Another thought comes to mind. See if there are any wires that look they have been added to the fuse box (if it has one). That might be a hint. Might as well check to make sure that the alarm is not a red herring, and that you have just blown a fuse ...

[skidMark]

itll be to do with the remote start relay i suspect, is your neutral light still going? they usually instruct you to run a wire for neutral to the start relay as well...

apart from that the usual process is to cut the kill switch wire... then 2 wires go from the alarm... one to each side of the bit of wire you cut, then a relay in the alarm controls it...

you sure you havnt buggered something else, with the wires you listed there is nothing for an immobiliser in it...

can you put up a picture of the alarm unit you took out, showing the wires out of it etc... ill try figure it out for ya as to if it has an immobiliser... no immobiliser = shouldnt be to do with the alarm...

i can understand why ya head scratching though!!!!!!!

[BASS-TREBLE]

Neutral light, no it has stopped working!!

I'm not sure if I've buggered anything else, but it did run before I removed alarm.

The relay had a light blue signal wire from alarm, 2 earths straight to battery, and one to the wire circled in wiring diagram.

If the ignitor box was buggered, I wouldn't know how it did, all I did was remove alarm.
I have noticed, When I turn ignition on and off, the spark plugs get a single spark, just one, as the power from ignition is cut off.. But if I turn ignition on, crank her over, turn it off, it doesn't get that weird spark

I hope that doesn't confuse anyone, it may be normal, may not, I just observed it when trying to get spark.

Pic 1 Alarm
Pic 2 Wires when cover taken of.
Pic 3 wires. Yellow to indicators, orange and pink/grey to ignition fuse and head fuse.
Pic 4 General assembly, ignore the phone, it jumped into picture uninvited
Pic 5 Wiring diagram

Relay no longer present.

I wonder how the failing neutral light is linked to it???

Thanks a lot

[Owl]

This may sound silly, but is your battery fully charged?

Just one of the quirks with my old 88 FZR750. If charged or used often it would start first time every time. If I hadn't ridden for 2-3 weeks, it would wind over like there was no tomorrow, but no spark, like the starter was sucking all available current and leaving none for ignition.

Put it on a charger and it would start instantly again.

Just a thought!

[YellowDog]

You need to get yourself a copy of the installation instructions for this or a similar alarm.

The installation is designed to stop someone removing the alarm and stealing the bike. Sounds like it is a good design :)

I haven't sone one of these for a few years however I do remember that you run an extra wire that now needs to be removed and the old route re-established. Maybe you can spot the foreign wire? Look at the joins of each end to see if you can work it out. It is usually an odd colour.

Get a manual and your problem will be quickly solved without the cost of an auto-electrician.

[BASS-TREBLE]

This may sound silly, but is your battery fully charged?

Just one of the quirks with my old 88 FZR750. If charged or used often it would start first time every time. If I hadn't ridden for 2-3 weeks, it would wind over like there was no tomorrow, but no spark, like the starter was sucking all available current and leaving none for ignition.

Put it on a charger and it would start instantly again.

Just a thought!

I put the battery on the charger last night because this thought crossed my mind too. Cheers

Any FZR owners, when you push the starter button and it cranks over, is it normal for the oil light to be lit up? Plenty of oil.

I've gone over all connections on the bike and they all are how that wiring diagram shows them, same colours etc.

My only thought is that there is something done to the neutral light wires or such, because that used to work, bulb isn't blown. The previous owner/s looks like they were a good electrician. He installed a 12 socket up front very neatly and the connections are like they were made in the factory.

Update on the project- Engineer coming over too measure my frame, It needs to be straight to be re registered etc.

Thanks everyone

[skidMark]

Right.... there is a grey and a pink wire, that is your immobilizer wires...

you need to find where those went to... then rejoin the 2 sides in the origional loom...

your neutral light wire usually runs into the remote start relay so it will only wind over in neutral if your light isnt working anymore you have cut something wrong... strange though because usually even the starter wouldn't go if this was the case...

ill have a think and look over the pics a bit better later on, gotta runoff to work now

Skid.

[BASS-TREBLE]

Edit Edit

Neutral light works. Nothing CRC cant fix.
Charged. Sitting at 13.something Volts. No spark

Skidmark, The Pink and Grey had the ends soldered together. I will go through what you said and will let you know.

[bimotabob]

HI,

The low oil level light should come on when cranking if it's like the later FZR's.
The single spark when you turn the key off sounds normal, i have seen that happen with electronic ignition on cars.
When you switch off the +12v via the ignition switch it collapses the electromagnetic field in the coil and produces a spark across the plugs.

I ripped the mongrel alarm out of mine too after being stuck at a servo with a crook remote.
Alarms are nightmares, they often fail and some of the installs i have seen bring tears to your eyes.

My 1989 FZR1000 loom looks very similar with the multipin safety relay box anf diode block that is connected to the igniter and the oil and neutral lights in conjunction with stand switches and clutch switches etc to inhibit the starter motor.
It's a nice system once you get an understanding of how it all fits together.

Relooming your bike yourself is one sure fire way to figure it all out but it takes ages!

Your battery should read 12.6 charged and when you get it sparking it should run at 14-14.5 volts running.
Check the main alt plug and your ignition switch carefully too as they are a known FZR problem (mine done it)

[BASS-TREBLE]

Cheers bimotabob

I've been tracing nearly all of the wires and they all seem fine.
I'm starting to think that the CDI shat itself.
The fuel pump relay is controlled throught the CDI, but when playing around with it this morning, the fuel pump didnt turn on once, probably turned ignition on and off 20 times.
During the last weeks' night sessions in the garage, I can remember the fuel pump going on only a few times, defianetly dodgy.
Is there a way to tell?
I guess swiching it with a working one is the only way.
Anyone around Mount Maunganui, Te Puke have a 87 FZR1000?

B-T

edit.
Have rewired alarm in a quick way. it performs like it did when it was removed. But has no spark.
Even more reason to believe its CDI (I think some say it's a TCI)

Crap...

[classic zed]

Im not sure if Yamaha did it but Kawasaki and Suzuki certainly did, they build a resistor into the ignition switch, what happens is when you put the ignition on the CDI unit checks the battery voltage against the ignition feed and knows that the ignition voltage should constantly be a certain amount lower than battery voltage, if that drop is not there it will not start cos it thinks its being "hotwired", likewise if the feed is missing it will not start anyway. Sometimes the resistor gets hot and melts back into the switch and no longer makes contact.

Like I say I dont know if it uses this system but its worth a look.

[zx rider]

Another thing worth checking is the side stand switch and wiring. These things can get dirty and lose contact inside.
When i fit alarms to bikes i always interrupt this wire to stop the bike starting with the alarm set to on. There may be a kill relay on that wire (hidden somewhere on the bike) They are common 30 or 40 amp auto relays with 5 terminals on the base. Only 4 term's are used. If you find that join term's #30 to #87 and you have blastoff.