White lining/lane splitting and general hooliganism

[craigsyd]

Hi guys

Me and my partner are in the process of emigrating to NZ - Auckland in particular, and been an avid biker (6 years not driving a car) would like to ask a few things about motorcycling in your neck of the woods. (We are currently living in Cape Town SA and we arrive June 05)

Is lane splitting allowed or frowned upon? We will probably be living near Auckland city in the beginning and I will be travelling North to Orewa on a daily basis. This will obviously only be a tolerable ride if lane splitting is not a problem.

From what i've read speed limits are 50 and 100 km/hr urban/rural respectively. Going to take some getting used to! What technology is been used to trap speedsters? ie camera, laser etc.

Parking: Are you allowed to park a bike on pavements/sidewalks? or are there designated parking areas for motorcycles?

What is the general attitude towards bikers and biking from the car driving population?

All year riding: Coming from Cape Town with a winter rainfall I am quite comfortable riding in the rain and ride 365/365 anyhow. Living on North Island are there any issues weather or otherwise that would prevent me from enjoying riding all year round?

I will be selling my bike here and buying one there when I arrive. Probably going to stick with Honda VFR although the BM 1200 GS is quite tempting.

Many thanks in advance

Craig

(Current ride Honda VFRi VTEC (non ABS))
Previous rides - BMW 1150GS/Adventure

[James Deuce]

At the risk of sounding grumpy and unhelpful, this site does have a search function. Some of us "crusty" members have re-typed answers to these questions a few times.

Welcome to the site and good luck moving to NZ.

You may also find the following site useful for detailed information of road traffic laws and enforcement, straight from the horse's mouth so to speak.

http://www.ltsa.govt.nz

PS After living in the UK and driving in both the UK and Europe, NZ drivers are bloody awful.

[Riff Raff]

Hi Craig, welcome to KB :wavey:
I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the wonderful riding we have in this country - but there is a bit more enforcement than you are probably used to.
Lane splitting is frowned upon but is only a problem if you're caught. North Island is pretty good for all year round riding. I'll let others fill you in on all the regulations etc.

[craigsyd]

Thanks for the reply. I am currently wading through all the threads here. The link you gave me redirects to auto value car dealers!

Craig

[James Deuce]

Thanks for the reply. I am currently wading through all the threads here. The link you gave me redirects to auto value car dealers!

Craig

You may want to check that again.


http://www.ltsa.govt.nz

You shouldn't need to wade. Do a search on lane splitting:

Here's a free one: Lane splitting (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/search.php?searchid=287223)

And another: Lanesplitting (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/search.php?searchid=287228)

[outlawtorn]

Dip n ouma!

Welcome to KB, I reckon you'll enjoy it here. When you get to NZ you are defintely going to love it here. If you are travelling north to Orewa from Auckland then you won't have much traffic to contend with so lane plitting won't really be a factor, but generally lane splitting is a no-no, but I commute from the top of the north shore into Auckland every day and I split right past cops all the time and they don't do anything, bearing in mind that the traffic is crawling and I'm only splitting at roughly 30 kph. If you split at 60kph through slower traffic then you will invite a fine or two.

The speed limits are easy to get used to as life over here is a lot more laid back than in SA, even for Cape Town'ers. Parking also seems to be very laid back, I've never had any problems finding parking or parking wherever I need to, although I did get hooted at the other day for taking up a car park space on Ponsonby road (A very busy and trendy road in Auckland), I let the driver of the car know that even though I am on a bike I have the right to park wherever I want, in less than diplomatic terms.

The general attitude is one of 'watch out for them stupid cage drivers', but that is generally worldwide, something the people of KB told me early on is to treat every cage driver as if they want to kill you, so generally you just have to be cautious, but coming from SA, you will def. be used to that.

Good that you are used to the rain, there is plenty of that here, just make sure you have your wets and warms on standby at all times, its gets bloody freezing here in winter on the bike. :cold:

[moko]

Hi Craig, welcome to KB :wavey:
I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the wonderful riding we have in this country - but there is a bit more enforcement than you are probably used to.

That`s putting it mildly,I couldn`t believe the number of traffic cops I saw over there.I actually found Kiwi drivers better than Brit drivers,mind you I take on the rush-hour testosterone olympics right through a city almost every day and stupid as opposed to homicidal driving is a pleasant change.
I`d go for the BMW mate,more than once I was travelling down a track wondering when it would lead to the road to somewhere and was amazed to learn that it was the road.Kiwis were as amazed that everywhere in Britain no matter how remote is tar-sealed as i was at what passes for a route between far-flung places over there.Those big beemers are brilliant,buy it,you`ll love it.
Speed limits are low and you`ve got a pretty good chance of getting caught as well,here it`s getting very similar and rapidly becoming not worth the risk.You`ll come across speed cameras in all kinds of weird and wonderful places,people coming the other way almost always give you warning though so if you get flashed wave back and check your speed.Sneakiest one I came across was coming out of Rotorua when I was getting flashed,camera set up around the corner,still getting flashed and there was another one around the next corner.
Lane-splitting they dont like,god knows what some of the guys on here would make of traffic in the U.K. and seeing guys carving through traffic at speed,great fun and really keeps you sharp.
New bike,new roads,best thing to do is take it nice and steady for a bit and see what others get away with....or dont as the case may be.

[craigsyd]

You may want to check that again.


http://www.ltsa.govt.nz

You shouldn't need to wade. Do a search on lane splitting:

Here's a free one: Lane splitting (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/search.php?searchid=287223)

And another: Lanesplitting (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/search.php?searchid=287228)

Thanks for the freebie - read a few interesting threads, and it's looking good. I am very used to LS as I endure 20kms of bumber to bumper cars here on my way to work everyday. There is even a short section on the highway here where one can do 150 between cars no problem but only advisable if you are in one of those moods.

[craigsyd]

Dip n ouma!

although I did get hooted at the other day for taking up a car park space on Ponsonby road (A very busy and trendy road in Auckland),

The general attitude is one of 'watch out for them stupid cage drivers', but that is generally worldwide, something the people of KB told me early on is to treat every cage driver as if they want to kill you, so generally you just have to be cautious, but coming from SA, you will def. be used to that.

Good that you are used to the rain, there is plenty of that here, just make sure you have your wets and warms on standby at all times, its gets bloody freezing here in winter on the bike. :cold:

Dip 'n Ouma - hehe i do that every morning!

Ponsonby road - been told I should look at buying a place to live there if I want to live near/in the city. Appaently up and coming and not too expensive at the moment, but maybe I am already to late.

With the taxi drivers here one can only learn to read minds and very fast. Nevermind waiting for people to indicate, they don't even bother any more as the indicators don't work anyhow.

Yip think its time I get a bike with heated grips again. Rode and lived in JHB for a while and those winter mornings, although dry were FREEZING.

[Zed]

Hi guys

Me and my partner are in the process of emigrating to NZ - Auckland in particular, and been an avid biker (6 years not driving a car) would like to ask a few things about motorcycling in your neck of the woods. (We are currently living in Cape Town SA and we arrive June 05)Hi Craig, hope the move to NZ is a good choice for you both. Welcome to Kiwibiker too!


Is lane splitting allowed or frowned upon? We will probably be living near Auckland city in the beginning and I will be travelling North to Orewa on a daily basis. This will obviously only be a tolerable ride if lane splitting is not a problem.Auckland has a traffic problem. Apparently with all the road works in progress it is supposed to be improved upon by the year 2008? Riding to Orewa daily shouldn't be a problem for you though because you will be riding away from the city traffic. Oh and even though many bikers lane-split over here it is still against the law. However, there are some grey areas to lanesplitting which you can read up about on previous threads.


From what i've read speed limits are 50 and 100 km/hr urban/rural respectively. Going to take some getting used to! What technology is been used to trap speedsters? ie camera, laser etc.Fixed roadside speed cameras and stationary Highway Patrol vehicles with lasers, etc are the most common throughout the country...we have a few motorcycle police who ride the Auckland motorway systems too and I've seen them stop many a rider including myself. :cool:


Parking: Are you allowed to park a bike on pavements/sidewalks? or are there designated parking areas for motorcycles?Parking any vehicle on sidewalks and even grass road verges is pretty much illegal now - I know people who have had their cars towed away in residential areas for parking on the grass verge! There are some designated bike parks throughout Auckland City but few and far between.


What is the general attitude towards bikers and biking from the car driving population?Currently in progress there is a road sign campaign in Ak with large "Look out for Motorcycles" signage erected to remind motorists about us...the general attitude I'd say is positive.


All year riding: Coming from Cape Town with a winter rainfall I am quite comfortable riding in the rain and ride 365/365 anyhow. Living on North Island are there any issues weather or otherwise that would prevent me from enjoying riding all year round? No issues really. Weather over here (especially in the Nth Is) is quite mild all year round with no major long lasting extremes compared to other countries. You should find the transition easy! :2thumbsup


Zed

[craigsyd]

I`d go for the BMW mate,more than once I was travelling down a track wondering when it would lead to the road to somewhere and was amazed to learn that it was the road.Kiwis were as amazed that everywhere in Britain no matter how remote is tar-sealed as i was at what passes for a route between far-flung places over there.Those big beemers are brilliant,buy it,you`ll love it.

New bike,new roads,best thing to do is take it nice and steady for a bit and see what others get away with....or dont as the case may be.

Well I am seriously considering the BM for the reason of the gravel roads and of course speed. I tended to be far more laid back on the 1150GS and I think the VFR just tends to bring out the speed demon in me especially at 7000RPM. The ABS and heated grips are a plus although the VFR down there has those options. Funnily I managed to activate the ABS a few times on the BM here and have only managed one squeal from the front tyre on my Honda and that was intentional (Testing limits and let go as soon as she screamed - str8 up of course).

From what I have read all ove the show lookis like I am in for some good riding. We are planning to travel the two Islands on bike as well which should be fun!

[James Deuce]

Well I am seriously considering the BM for the reason of the gravel roads and of course speed. I tended to be far more laid back on the 1150GS and I think the VFR just tends to bring out the speed demon in me especially at 7000RPM. The ABS and heated grips are a plus although the VFR down there has those options. Funnily I managed to activate the ABS a few times on the BM here and have only managed one squeal from the front tyre on my Honda and that was intentional (Testing limits and let go as soon as she screamed - str8 up of course).

From what I have read all ove the show lookis like I am in for some good riding. We are planning to travel the two Islands on bike as well which should be fun!


There is a common series of misconceptions that we live in grass huts with mud floors, have no electricity, and ride 25 year old DT100s, to navigate our extensive gravel road network. You will have to search out gravel roads in NZ, they are not as common as you seem to assume.

Overtaking on the right is legal, but the left is not. Each lane in NZ is it's own separate highway, which allows for the loophole of lansplitting, but it is generally only tolerated in near stationary traffic. It is legal to lanesplit to the head of a stationary queue at a set of traffic lights. Lanesplitting at 150 would probably earn you a jail sentence here. Somneone in government got it into their head that only speed and drink driving cause fatal "accidents" and therefore target those issues, instead of gross incompetence and stupidity.

Moko is understating the gulf in driver capability between the UK and NZ. There average Brit gets more driver training in the frst week of beginning the process than most Kiwis get in a lifetime.

[craigsyd]

There is a common series of misconceptions that we live in grass huts with mud floors, have no electricity, and ride 25 year old DT100s, to navigate our extensive gravel road network. You will have to search out gravel roads in NZ, they are not as common as you seem to assume..

Pretty much the same here actually, but the gravel roads that there are, can be the most rewarding in terms of scenary and just for the sake of taking the road less travelled. That has been my only gripe since I bought the VFR 3 yrs ago, not been able to take the gravel roads when coming upon them. So i don't think I have any misconceptions about NZ at all, just that this was already a factor I was deciding on this side with my next purchase anyhow.

It can't be as bad as what the guys think of SA. We also live in grass huts but we have lions and elephants roaming the streets.


Somneone in government got it into their head that only speed and drink driving cause fatal "accidents" and therefore target those issues, instead of gross incompetence and stupidity.

I think that is the case in most places and here as well. I just think there you guys enforce it where here if they did the same you would see half the drivers off the roads overnight.

[Krusti]

There is a common series of misconceptions that we live in grass huts with mud floors, have no electricity, and ride 25 year old DT100s, to navigate our extensive gravel road network.

WHAT? You mean we are the only ones? I'm gonna have to get out more!:msn-wink:

[crashe]

Kia ora and welcome to KB.

Parking on footpaths.... yes, I do it, but I always make sure that the bike is as close to the roadside as possible...so that its not in the way of pedestrians.... and I dont leave it there all day... but that is in Auckland CBD area including Ponsonby Rd.

West Auckland shopping area parking on footpaths is a no no... the parking wardens will ticket you.
The parking wardens in the city are pretty much ok about it, but dont leave it all day.

Aotea Square and Sky City is FREE parking for the bikes, as long as you can get past the barriers going in and out without knocking them... they have designated areas for the bikes to park.

Prices in Ponsonby are pretty steep, but it does depend on how much money you are willing to spend... check out reality websites to give you an idea of prices.

Auckland to Orewa wont take you long to comute up there at all....
You will also be going against the traffic.

[flyin]

plenty of free motorbike parks all over wellington, if the one outside work (yup by the front door) is full cos i didn't get to work till 10+ then i have to venture across the road for another, or 100m round the corner for another........ all big enough for a good 6-10 bikes dependin on how people park......

Yeah Wellytown!!! the cops here have been nice about lane splittin/filtering to me so far (even got a warning for a mono while test riding a bandit.hehe... told me to "test ride like i'd ride it every day"...... HAHAHA little does he kno...... )


oh and 150km is "walking speed" ie you WALK your arse home!! under thats tikets and demerit points

[SPman]

Ponsonby road - been told I should look at buying a place to live there if I want to live near/in the city. Appaently up and coming and not too expensive at the moment, but maybe I am already to late.
.
Excuse me while I choke on my Weetbix! Read the second part of the sentence first. Although.......say $700K for a shitter with "potential", then $2-400K to refurbish. If thats not too expensive, then your're in!

[Wolf]

Welcome to Kiwi Biker and New Zealand. NZ is a great country for riding in and you'd have to be a total pussy not to ride all year 'round in most places in the North Island (I gather the Central Plateau can get a bit hairy on occasion and they actually close the roads due to the snow, but the rest of the Island is pretty mild).

Worst I've encountered has been torrential rain and gusting winds (that reduced me to around 20km/hour) and a few days when you think "shit, I've gotta go out in that?" but you go out anyway because you have to and you'd get wetter walking than you do on a bike (you get wetter running from where you parked your car to the office than you do in decent wet weather gear.)

When the weather's fine there are great roads - whatever style of riding you're into, you're likely to find it ('cept our motorways won't be quite like you're used to.)

[MSTRS]

Hey guys - stop shitting the nice man. The roads here are all straight, with no twisty bits, the cops are everywhere just to keep the traffic moving at 160kph or more, the cages lanesplit us & the only gravel roads are graded everyday so there is no buildup of loose stuff or corrugations.(PT)

[Biff]

Welcome.
I still class myself as a newbie to this great country, and yes, I'm still getting used to the changes in driving styles/standards. I find that the lower speed limit takes some getting used to, but as I said to the cop that pulled me (my seconds ticket within three weeks of arrival here),” I'm acclimatising!”

Yes you can split - but you must do it slowly and to the right. I’ve split passed loads of cops lately (between two lanes going in the same direction), without any problems. Jim's links will fill in the gaps.

Enjoy, be safe and be seen.

[James Deuce]

WHAT? You mean we are the only ones? I'm gonna have to get out more!:msn-wink:

I've seen pictures. You should stay on gravel roads where people can't see you! :)

[Krusti]

I've seen pictures. You should stay on gravel roads where people can't see you! :)

Duh...ooooooh look fire....hey woman cook food.....me hunt...oooh look white man....aaaaaargh!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Krusti]

Want to shear your sheep?.....No go get your own! :killingme

[craigsyd]

Worst I've encountered has been torrential rain and gusting winds (that reduced me to around 20km/hour) and a few days when you think "shit, I've gotta go out in that?" but you go out anyway because you have to

Very used to winds here, especially this last year has been a bit hectic, Almost got blown off my bike twice and this has never happened to me before. In both cases I was stationary or near stationary but still not pleasant. I have also driven through a miniature whirlwind on my BM 1150 GS, and was thrown from side to side in a matter of a split second 2 up, and it was fine, just very scary when it happened.

My only fear with torrential rain is aquaplaning - it has never happened - but I have lost the front once in my life (diesel and light rain, tight corner, wrong camber and thoughtlessness) and the first you know of it is when your helmet hits the ground. Been caught in quite a few bad downpours and just had to take it very easy!

[craigsyd]

Excuse me while I choke on my Weetbix! Read the second part of the sentence first. Although.......say $700K for a shitter with "potential", then $2-400K to refurbish. If thats not too expensive, then your're in!

hmmm not quite what I had in mind. Back to the drawing board :eek:

[Sniper]

Craig, you will love it here.

What do you want to do in the NI? The Southn Island is way better but I suppose it is reserved for those who wish to have a track day everyday while riding to work. You will have to take a trip down this way and you will definetly want to stay here.

If you are patient too, you can pick up a great bike with low KMS for a great price

[outlawtorn]

Excuse me while I choke on my Weetbix! Read the second part of the sentence first. Although.......say $700K for a shitter with "potential", then $2-400K to refurbish. If thats not too expensive, then your're in!

:killingme

[enigma51]

If you are going to work in orewa buy a place in orewa. As a fellow capie I can tell you winter riding is a breeze in comparision it is not a cold as cape town gets (Snow on the mountains and all) When you get here make sure you do the conversion to NZ license as soon as possible. It not very difficult and will not even take long. PS FOLLOW THE SPEED LIMIT until you know the roads and have been on a few rides with kiwi bikers. They have laser speed cameras radar and hidden cop cars and they will catch you. When you get here give a shout and I will take you trough the ropes with road laws and those type of things. Also go lookup on the ltsa website if havent already Good luck with the move. This might sound weird but if you are using forman and hendricks you might want to rethink your options (Not to scare you) but the wife and I had a bit a bad experience with our whole imigration story all because of the agency did. We had to do everthing and she was pretty much a glorified postman.

[FROSTY]

I agree with enigma. the ponsonby price thing--um waaaay out of date--like 10 years.One place i predict is gonna explode soon price wise is KUMEU
and the hassle is if ya live in kumeu and work in orewa ya have to ride over 15 km of clean windy roads with a very light :Police: population.
Lane splitting isn't encouraged except passing stationary vehicles.
Theres a couple of sections of my (30km each way) commute that are like that.
and there are plenty of fun dirt roads not far from auckland. You just need to know where.
I'd give Motu a PM when you get settled here--hes got a nose for finding dirt roads.

[Pixie]

I agree with enigma. the ponsonby price thing--um waaaay out of date--like 10 years.One place i predict is gonna explode soon price wise is KUMEU
and the hassle is if ya live in kumeu and work in orewa ya have to ride over 15 km of clean windy roads with a very light :Police: population.
Lane splitting isn't encouraged except passing stationary vehicles.
Theres a couple of sections of my (30km each way) commute that are like that.
and there are plenty of fun dirt roads not far from auckland. You just need to know where.
I'd give Motu a PM when you get settled here--hes got a nose for finding dirt roads.
It may seem like 15 Km kumeu to orewa,but it's more like 45

[craigsyd]

If you are going to work in orewa buy a place in orewa.

When you get here make sure you do the conversion to NZ license as soon as possible. It not very difficult and will not even take long.

When you get here give a shout and I will take you trough the ropes with road laws and those type of things. This might sound weird but if you are using forman and hendricks you might want to rethink your options

hmm I have always made it a point of never working where I live and vice versa. I currently work in Hout Bay and I live in Royal Ascot (Milnerton) so that will give you some idea of the amount I commute currently - with heavy traffic since the Parklands virus started. I prefer not peeing in the fountain I am going to drink from later so to speak, so I like not to bump into my patients on a Sunday morning at the local shop unshaved and with a hangover. :whistle:

What does the comversion to NZ entail? Thanks for the offer will def give you a shout when we arrive. I take it F & H are an emigration facilitator? As far as emigration is concerned we are handling everything ourselves. We phoned one company here mainly out of interest and they said its not worth working through them for NZ, as it is easier to do it yourself, especially if you have a job offer and are on the skills shortage list, which both me and my partner are on. (Dentist & snr tavel consultant respectively)

[craigsyd]

Craig, you will love it here.

You will have to take a trip down this way and you will definetly want to stay here.

If you are patient too, you can pick up a great bike with low KMS for a great price

Well we can't wait any longer. We have done some extensive research and reading up and we are counting the days. We will def take a tour of the two islands on bike, probably summer :cool: hopefully later this year or early next.

Been looking at websites selling used bikes. I can pick up a brand new VFR for a good price, but can't seem to find any second hand BM1200GS's for sale anywhere. Will do final research when I am there, but don't want to wait long as I hate being without my wheels.

[craigsyd]

I agree with enigma. the ponsonby price thing--um waaaay out of date--like 10 years.One place i predict is gonna explode soon price wise is KUMEU
and the hassle is if ya live in kumeu and work in orewa ya have to ride over 15 km of clean windy roads with a very light :Police: population.

Thanks for the tip - will look into KUMEU. The windier the roads, the better.
:2thumbsup

[enigma51]

hmm I have always made it a point of never working where I live and vice versa. I currently work in Hout Bay and I live in Royal Ascot (Milnerton) so that will give you some idea of the amount I commute currently - with heavy traffic since the Parklands virus started. I prefer not peeing in the fountain I am going to drink from later so to speak, so I like not to bump into my patients on a Sunday morning at the local shop unshaved and with a hangover. :whistle:

What does the comversion to NZ entail? Thanks for the offer will def give you a shout when we arrive. I take it F & H are an emigration facilitator? As far as emigration is concerned we are handling everything ourselves. We phoned one company here mainly out of interest and they said its not worth working through them for NZ, as it is easier to do it yourself, especially if you have a job offer and are on the skills shortage list, which both me and my partner are on. (Dentist & snr tavel consultant respectively)

The conversion is very easy you sit a writen test (More like scratching for the lotto as it is multiple choiche scratch the silver stuff on the right answer) but dont worry its not like the SA learner license thing where they try and ask you the most in sane questions its is pretty easy. You might need to do the riding thing as well not always the case but does happen.

As for where to stay. If you work on the north shore stay on the north shore if you work in the city try and stay on the city side of the bridge. If you work in manukua papukura etc stay on the south side of the brige. They traffice here is nothing like Cape Town. A bad traffice day in Cape Town is a good traffice day over the bridge. But in saying that come here and decided where you want to stay as there is some realy pretty places around. :Punk:


You will love it here espicially the riding its like chapmans all the time nice and twisty but not on top of a mountain. So dont worry the speed limit thing might sound slow its actualy not .......... if you are in a car. PM me when you are in NZ then I can help you out with license thing etc.

Before I forget good move on the do it yourself you will save a lot of money :niceone:

[vifferman]

I thought it was almost compulsory for Saffers to live in either East Coast Bays or Howick? :spudwhat:

[outlawtorn]

I thought it was almost compulsory for Saffers to live in either East Coast Bays or Howick? :spudwhat:

It's true that, so far I've not met any other 'Saffers' who live anywhere else. When we started asking about where to live in Auckland most people told us Browns bay is a really nice place, so that's where we have setup 'base', but we are looking to move out of the city completely.

[SPman]

It may seem like 15 Km kumeu to orewa,but it's more like 45

Ssssshhhhhhh. Its all in the way you ride.

[craigsyd]

The conversion is very easy you sit a writen test (More like scratching for the lotto as it is multiple choiche scratch the silver stuff on the right answer)

As for where to stay. If you work on the north shore stay on the north shore if you work in the city try and stay on the city side of the bridge. If you work in manukua papukura etc stay on the south side of the brige.

So I'll just have to Tata ma chance with the conversion :)

Thanks for the bridge info - makes a lot of sense. We will be staying in the city for two weeks to give us some initial ratting time to find a suitable place, and then we will rent for a while until we find an area we want to buy in. All very interesting stuff! Thanks for the offer of help. I will pm you when we arrive and we can take it form there.

[craigsyd]

I thought it was almost compulsory for Saffers to live in either East Coast Bays or Howick? :spudwhat:

hehehe first I hear of that.

[craigsyd]

It's true that, so far I've not met any other 'Saffers' who live anywhere else.

Looks like I got quite a bit of suburb ratting to do! Gonna need my bike ASAP!

[RiderInBlack]

but we are looking to move out of the city completely.Try Wright Rd in Albany Heights:niceone: The houses there are surrounded by a bush reserve:2thumbsup Can not even tell your close to the city. My Old Landlord and Landlady are selling theirs and going to Ozzie (Fools). It's as close as a country boy like myself would tolerate being near a city.

[Vagabond]

I thought it was almost compulsory for Saffers to live in either East Coast Bays or Howick? :spudwhat:
:lol: I must b the only saffer in Papakura :niceone:

[Coldkiwi]

I thought it was almost compulsory for Saffers to live in either East Coast Bays or Howick? :spudwhat:


sounds about right to me! I've lost count of how many families from SA I've meet out there in the last 10 years!

[crashe]

I thought it was almost compulsory for Saffers to live in either East Coast Bays or Howick? :spudwhat:

Gee you should see them all out in West Auckland....
there are heaps out my way.....

So they have all migrated from Howick to become a "Westie".....lol. :cool: