ACC (again)

[TripleZee Dyno]

Just read about new ACC levy proposals for cars. The levy to be based on the cars safety rating. 5 star rating, least amount of ACC. Apparently most cars 5 years and newer are 5 star. A quick squize on TM shows you are probably looking at $7000 min for a 2005> car (and that was a Honda Jazz). OK for some but I wouldnt think that everyone has a spare 7-10k to upgrade their car. Nick Smith the minister is reported as saying this move will save 42% of 340 million dollars? whatever that means.
Point is this proposal is probably not a goer so guess what the backup plan is likely to be?
When talking about road safety and cost of accidents, you dont need to be a brain surgeon to figure out whats coming next.

[AllanB]

I'm stuffed then - motorcycle - probably a -1 star rating :shutup:

Madza Familia - about a 2 star on a good day :gob:

[middleaged2wheeler]

Getting near the time to scrap the ACC system--and go back to private insurance cover---ACC pulls money out from an amazing number places.
Petrol, regos, worker and employer levies to name a few. When a monolithic Govt department gets too expensive and cumbersome it usually gets dumped into the private sector.
The motorcar has become a travelling lounge with too many driver distractions--coffee cup holders, cellphones, navigation devices, laptops,--beeps for this and that -motorcyclists have to concentrate when they drive-join that with speed and and aggression and inexperience of course the travelling lounge may not be a safe place at 100kms.

[Laava]

Getting near the time to scrap the ACC system--and go back to private insurance cover---ACC pulls money out from an amazing number places.
Petrol, regos, worker and employer levies to name a few. When a monolithic Govt department gets too expensive and cumbersome it usually gets dumped into the private sector.
The motorcar has become a travelling lounge with too many driver distractions--coffee cup holders, cellphones, navigation devices, laptops,--beeps for this and that -motorcyclists have to concentrate when they drive-join that with speed and and aggression and inexperience of course the travelling lounge may not be a safe place at 100kms.
Great idea. and I would be happy to do this personally, BUT!
There would then be a huge amount of people who would not have any insurance of any type and at the mo those people are covered by ACC. Our entire welfare system would have to be re-modelled specifically to cater to these people who rightly or wrongly would need assistance. Starts to smack of 3rd world then in my opinion.
Maybe the optional insurance thing would work better. I know there are many downfalls to this option too. Be nice to have a govt that would implement it with enough time to properly road test it.
BTW, I am having a shitfight with ACC at the mo, re work ACC levies so would love to see the playing field levelled, ie, no claims benefits.

[p.dath]

Getting near the time to scrap the ACC system--and go back to private insurance cover---ACC pulls money out from an amazing number places.
Petrol, regos, worker and employer levies to name a few. When a monolithic Govt department gets too expensive and cumbersome it usually gets dumped into the private sector.
The motorcar has become a travelling lounge with too many driver distractions--coffee cup holders, cellphones, navigation devices, laptops,--beeps for this and that -motorcyclists have to concentrate when they drive-join that with speed and and aggression and inexperience of course the travelling lounge may not be a safe place at 100kms.

I wouldn't be happy to scrap it, but I would be happy to go back to how it was when National was last in power, where you could elect to get private insurance and opt out of it.

[swbarnett]

Great idea. and I would be happy to do this personally, BUT!
There would then be a huge amount of people who would not have any insurance of any type and at the mo those people are covered by ACC. Our entire welfare system would have to be re-modelled specifically to cater to these people who rightly or wrongly would need assistance. Starts to smack of 3rd world then in my opinion.
This is what happens in Switzerland. Those that can't afford their own health insurance get it paid for by the Government. Because that Government is only buying insurance from the private sector (and then only for a small proportion of the population) and not running hospitals the whole system is a lot more efficient. Definately not third world.

[TripleZee Dyno]

The good thing about ACC is its no fault basis, ie you crash at 150k you are covered. The same cant be said about private insurance. Unlawful activity may void your private insurance and then you are back to hoping the state will scrape you off the road.
Having experienced some private insurance woes in a first world country I personally prefer ACC. It needs fine tuning but no sense throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
be careful what you wish for etc

[Grahameeboy]

In a way ACC is private Insurance for us as we contribute to it, it is just run by the Govt.

May find, that as we have had ACC a while that private insurance becomes expensive to cover the sudden influx of people wanting cover and actuaries shitting themselves.

I think that drunk drivers should contribute, say only get 50% assistance...sounds tough but it may just change attitudes...maybe same for unlicenced drivers...

[Grahameeboy]

The good thing about ACC is its no fault basis, ie you crash at 150k you are covered. The same cant be said about private insurance. Unlawful activity may void your private insurance and then you are back to hoping the state will scrape you off the road.
Having experienced some private insurance woes in a first world country I personally prefer ACC. It needs fine tuning but no sense throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
be careful what you wish for etc

Non Fault creates a society issue....

[inlinefour]

Im sweet, ACC have brought me a 09 Merc van thats probably almost in NZ by now and then its getting a heap more $$$ thrown at it, to convert it into a self drive vehicle. Now all those here who want to moan about ACC and the likes of myself that need/are entitled to ACC, can get bent. I spent almost a decade paying one of the highest premiums, while working as a commercial fishing deckhand. I also occasionaly would grizzle about it, until I was bowled of my ride, just going into town to get a kebab. You never know when your going to need it and once you have needed to have ACC's help, hopefully some respect is grown. Its usually the most ignorant ones who make the most noise. Expect that there will be more to come from ACC, with their major restructure of staff and how they do things. This has been forced by the new gubbermint (which is just as useless as the last) and it comes back to the gubbermint for allowing ACC to get into the ratshit situation its now in. This concept of vehicle safety is nothing new, look at how some other countries do things, say like Japan and I reciently watch the doco on the Autobhan and how Germany does it. If needed everyone can have its cry about it, but you can bet your last buck that in some form this will eventually happen. This has been on the back burner for along time and at one stage they was talking about trying to get vehicles off the road that are over a set amount of years. I dont remember how many, but it was not much.

[Grahameeboy]

Im sweet, ACC have brought me a 09 Merc van thats probably almost in NZ by now and then its getting a heap more $$$ thrown at it, to convert it into a self drive vehicle. Now all those here who want to moan about ACC and the likes of myself that need/are entitled to ACC, can get bent. I spent almost a decade paying one of the highest premiums, while working as a commercial fishing deckhand. I also occasionaly would grizzle about it, until I was bowled of my ride, just going into town to get a kebab. You never know when your going to need it and once you have needed to have ACC's help, hopefully some respect is grown. Its usually the most ignorant ones who make the most noise. Expect that there will be more to come from ACC, with their major restructure of staff and how they do things. This has been forced by the new gubbermint (which is just as useless as the last) and it comes back to the gubbermint for allowing ACC to get into the ratshit situation its now in. This concept of vehicle safety is nothing new, look at how some other countries do things, say like Japan and I reciently watch the doco on the Autobhan and how Germany does it. If needed everyone can have its cry about it, but you can bet your last buck that in some fornocenbm this will eventually happen. This has been on the back burner for along time and at one stage they was talking about trying to get vehicles off the road that are over a set amount of years. I dont remember how many, but it was not much.

ACC is great I agree but the best the govt will now do for Nats (since last year), also innocence, is $19,000 towards a Van..I had to find $25,000 to get Nats van...the Mercs around $75,000 plus.

There has to be fairness...

[middleaged2wheeler]

But isn,t our society being shaped by what "a few people think is a good idea, "usually politicians--anti-smacking,- who should drive what and at what age and what learner hurdles they should put in front of them---how much a pac of cigs or beer should be.-- we are dictated to in many aspects of daily life and the ACC levys dumped on us are just another.
Suppliers of a system may not be the users of the same system--so they feel like the govt hand is in their pocket all the time and far too much.

[p.dath]

But isn,t our society being shaped by what "a few people think is a good idea, "usually politicians--anti-smacking,- who should drive what and at what age and what learner hurdles they should put in front of them---how much a pac of cigs or beer should be.-- we are dictated to in many aspects of daily life and the ACC levys dumped on us are just another.
Suppliers of a system may not be the users of the same system--so they feel like the govt hand is in their pocket all the time and far too much.

This is a democracy. If you don't like who is in power then vote them out. If you don't like anyone, then stand yourself.

[middleaged2wheeler]

The ACC system being a "NO FAULT ONE" means in reality, all have to bankroll every reckless activity going in NZ at any one time. Just think of all the risky pastimes and hobbies ACC covers besides work. When it first came out burgalars jumping out of window and breaking a leg were covered by ACC---
Some limit to what it covers maybe a start--if you want go skydiving--get your own cover--if you want to go caving get your own cover--and on it goes.

[middleaged2wheeler]

Theory is good---start own political movement to institute some commonsense back into ruling system--alas that can take a lifetime--powerful lobby groups can be more effective. This forum has a lobbying power for sure.

[slofox]

Nick Smith the minister is reported as saying this move will save 42% of 340 million dollars? whatever that means.


142.8 million is what it means...:whistle:

[middleaged2wheeler]

Who really reads these forums?--I don,t know the membership, but can guess fairly accurately--quite a few police riders--some political riders, local and central government types.-probably quite a crossection of our social strata.

[Laava]

In a way ACC is private Insurance for us as we contribute to it, it is just run by the Govt.

May find, that as we have had ACC a while that private insurance becomes expensive to cover the sudden influx of people wanting cover and actuaries shitting themselves.

I think that drunk drivers should contribute, say only get 50% assistance...sounds tough but it may just change attitudes...maybe same for unlicenced drivers...
But it is not run like insurance. For instance there is no "no claims" and there is no individual fee structure. It is just "hey you, Laava, give us 6.5% of your earnings" and then pay 4x levies on vehicles for the year as well. Mate it adds up and is a huge chunk out of my annual earnings. I am sure I could get insurance a lot cheaper plus I would have 30 odd years of no claims bonus.
I like your idea of drunk drivers having to cough up in some form or other, I will vote for you!

[middleaged2wheeler]

And some 12cents a litre of petrol costs so i heard and no doubt some GST--ACC is a hidden money grabber--next time some group go mountain climbing --hope they get back unscathed and that,ll save us some.

[Jiminy]

This is what happens in Switzerland. Those that can't afford their own health insurance get it paid for by the Government. Because that Government is only buying insurance from the private sector (and then only for a small proportion of the population) and not running hospitals the whole system is a lot more efficient. Definately not third world.

Yes, but the health insurance premiums are shooting through the roof every year, so obviously not an ideal system either...

[Squiggles]

Question is... how could they apply it to bikes? The safety ratings thing is all relative. We cant be compared to cars... although looking at their breakdowns of accidents, i'd say they'd do us by cc rating :shutup:

[jrandom]

although looking at their breakdowns of accidents, i'd say they'd do us by cc rating :shutup:

They probably would, but speaking from the perspective of someone who rides an aircooled 1400 that makes less than 100hp at the wheel, I'd have to say that that's dreadfully unfair.

[p.dath]

Theory is good---start own political movement to institute some commonsense back into ruling system--alas that can take a lifetime--powerful lobby groups can be more effective. This forum has a lobbying power for sure.

You could always start with a visit to your local MP - you know, the person elected to represent you in parliament. :)

[swbarnett]

Non Fault creates a society issue....
All no fault means is that we don't get some beurocrat in Wellington telling us that something you or I may consider perfectly acceptable (motorcycling, for example) is not on.

[swbarnett]

The ACC system being a "NO FAULT ONE" means in reality, all have to bankroll every reckless activity going in NZ at any one time. Just think of all the risky pastimes and hobbies ACC covers besides work. When it first came out burgalars jumping out of window and breaking a leg were covered by ACC---
Some limit to what it covers maybe a start--if you want go skydiving--get your own cover--if you want to go caving get your own cover--and on it goes.
What you say is good in principle but who decides where the line is? What to one person is reckless to another is perfectly safe.

[dogsnbikes]

And some 12cents a litre of petrol costs so i heard and no doubt some GST--ACC is a hidden money grabber--next time some group go mountain climbing --hope they get back unscathed and that,ll save us some.

the govt doesn't work on cents its percentages and I believe its more that 12 thats why they love it when fuel increases more money in the black hole

As for ACC on the saftey status of cars

Hmmmm does that imply that we are all perfect drivers,regardless of how well a vehicle is maintained and its age it is the vehciles that are causing Accidents and has nothing what so ever with the drivers ability

sounds like too me the Wogs in the powers that be Actually believe everything they See on the TV commericals

[middleaged2wheeler]

What you say is good in principle but who decides where the line is? What to one person is reckless to another is perfectly safe.
The two ancient people you quote had neither ACC to pay for, or the rigors of a highly regulated & monitored society to contest.--if they were around today every political blog in NZ would be running red hot.
They would,nt support a :"cradle to the grave" everything in society-maybe just one social safety net--worth studying those two.

[swbarnett]

The two ancient people you quote had neither ACC to pay for, or the rigors of a highly regulated & monitored society to contest.--if they were around today every political blog in NZ would be running red hot.
They would,nt support a :"cradle to the grave" everything in society-maybe just one social safety net--worth studying those two.
Are you trying to imply that the greyness of what is "reckless" is an out moded concept?

The two "ancient people" I quoted, as you put it, are alive and well today.

[SPman]

They probably would, but speaking from the perspective of someone who rides an aircooled 1400 that makes less than 100hp at the wheel, I'd have to say that that's dreadfully unfair.
Nah - they'll start with GSXR1000 as the bedrock, and move up from there......

[Grahameeboy]

But it is not run like insurance. For instance there is no "no claims" and there is no individual fee structure. It is just "hey you, Laava, give us 6.5% of your earnings" and then pay 4x levies on vehicles for the year as well. Mate it adds up and is a huge chunk out of my annual earnings. I am sure I could get insurance a lot cheaper plus I would have 30 odd years of no claims bonus.
I like your idea of drunk drivers having to cough up in some form or other, I will vote for you!

The problem is that you are talking about 2 different types of insurance. When Workplace was briefly privatised it was cheaper....but with vehicles you would not get a private insurer to pay as much as ACC does so it's swings and roundabouts....

[Grahameeboy]

All no fault means is that we don't get some beurocrat in Wellington telling us that something you or I may consider perfectly acceptable (motorcycling, for example) is not on.

Sadly for NZ is does not do that..this is a country which does not like to accept responsibility, just makes excuses which I think is a by product of ACC.

[middleaged2wheeler]

Are you trying to imply that the greyness of what is "reckless" is an out moded concept?

The two "ancient people" I quoted, as you put it, are alive and well today.
What is reckless? For ACC purposes ask any Insurance Co. what they define as reckless.Each time someone goes out in a boat without a lifejacket and drowns it cost ACC $6000--in death payment.Any death by accident or otherwise misadventure cost ACC $6000--00. We won,t cover the ACC payed to Females who manage to pin a sex abuse case on someone and win up to $20,000 compo--What has that got to do with accidents? this is a long involved subject that not only gets grey, but very blurred.

True the ancients related history and lives are alive today--beyond that I,d never get people,s personal religious beliefs.

[middleaged2wheeler]

Why the ACC costs are bloated out with abuse cases is anyone,s guess when civil courts can handle these and we all don,t have to pay for the outcome.
Bloated out ACC costs which we are all tired of, is really what this thread is about.

[inlinefour]

There has to be fairness...

I disagree. What does ACC stand for? It has to be a physical accident, thats where the line in the sand is. I know its not fair, but if it was not for that line in the sand, ACC would have ceased to exsist along time ago. Imagine the burdon put on the finances of ACC if it was A & M(medical)CC with all the people out there in the some sort of situation like Nat. Lastly, please dont shoot the messenger. Im just voicing the facts, I dont make them and its not my fault that Im on the ACC line in the sand and others are not. Im very lucky to be getting the van paid for and are thankfull for what is provided. Especially because I know its so much more than others, although I dont know anyone else in the same situation as myself, simply because spinal/spinal cord injuries are so different for each individual.:wacko:

[Grahameeboy]

I disagree. What does ACC stand for? It has to be a physical accident, thats where the line in the sand is. I know its not fair, but if it was not for that line in the sand, ACC would have ceased to exsist along time ago. Imagine the burdon put on the finances of ACC if it was A & M(medical)CC with all the people out there in the some sort of situation like Nat. Lastly, please dont shoot the messenger. Im just voicing the facts, I dont make them and its not my fault that Im on the ACC line in the sand and others are not. Im very lucky to be getting the van paid for and are thankfull for what is provided. Especially because I know its so much more than others, although I dont know anyone else in the same situation as myself, simply because spinal/spinal cord injuries are so different for each individual.:wacko:

It is just another tax to pay for something....I pay taxes but with Nats it is different. That is the unfairness....but agree with rest.

[The Stranger]

All no fault means is that we don't get some beurocrat in Wellington telling us that something you or I may consider perfectly acceptable (motorcycling, for example) is not on.

You may want to revise that definition.
ACC have previously stated their intention to levy motorcycles off the road.

[Squiggles]

You may want to revise that definition.
ACC have previously stated their intention to levy motorcycles off the road.

You've got to wonder what would be next (if we were taken off the roads)... driving cars, playing sports... anything that costs them alot of $$? :crazy:

[swbarnett]

You may want to revise that definition.
ACC have previously stated their intention to levy motorcycles off the road.
The definition of "no-fault" is still valid. This just means that ACC is NOT a no fault system.

[inlinefour]

You may want to revise that definition.
ACC have previously stated their intention to levy motorcycles off the road.

They also intend on telling smokers they can have surgery (what ever kind needed) or smoke, but they cannot have both. :rockon:

[ynot slow]

The thing which annoys most is the grey areas of ACC.I was at work years ago at smoko a rep was going on about rugby injuries and costs,his view was why should ACC pay,my boss had the opposite view saying he had 2 guys playing soccer and rugby(rugby guy had black eye that Monday)and had no issues that on Saturday night he might get a call saying either of us was injured.Boss' reasoning was the unfit ladies had more Mondays off with colds,flu,other crap than us guys playing sport.And he added we were paying levies as well.
The thing that pissed me off with the system is if you are off work due to injury or accident the payout is 80%,if you are sick the payout is way less.

[jono035]

The thing which annoys most is the grey areas of ACC.I was at work years ago at smoko a rep was going on about rugby injuries and costs,his view was why should ACC pay,my boss had the opposite view saying he had 2 guys playing soccer and rugby(rugby guy had black eye that Monday)and had no issues that on Saturday night he might get a call saying either of us was injured.Boss' reasoning was the unfit ladies had more Mondays off with colds,flu,other crap than us guys playing sport.And he added we were paying levies as well.
The thing that pissed me off with the system is if you are off work due to injury or accident the payout is 80%,if you are sick the payout is way less.

Yeah, but there are other ways of getting and staying fit that don't require us to run face-first into each other for an hour. (Devil's advocate here)

Personally I don't mind that idea so much. What I hate is the idea of people having to pay more because the insurance system has decided that they are higher-risk than others. Smoking I could get behind, but it's a slippery slope that ends in genetic testing and paying insurance premiums based on matters that you have no control over. Genetic pre-disposition towards rare and debilitating illness? Sorry, you pay more.

Anyone advocating private insurance/healthcare needs to take a look at the various ways the US health system is completely failing. And then move there.

[Grahameeboy]

They also intend on telling smokers they can have surgery (what ever kind needed) or smoke, but they cannot have both. :rockon:

Seems fair to me.....I know they pay duty etc which goes to the Govt but they take up spaces for ops etc....."Smoking can Kill" so let them find out

[jono035]

As I've mentioned in another thread, the tying-acc-levies-to-vehicle-safety is an insiduous kind of regressive tax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regressive_tax). It's not a bad idea, but is heavily biased towards taxing people who can't afford to upgrade their car to the latest, shiniest and safest. Also surely they could look at how dangerous someones car is to other road users and go from that? A biker may injure themselves but is unlikely to injure others. Someone in an X5/Cayenne is unlikely to injure themselves but just about pancaked me at a roundabout a few days ago. Terrifying idiots.

[Grahameeboy]

Yeah, but there are other ways of getting and staying fit that don't require us to run face-first into each other for an hour. (Devil's advocate here)

Personally I don't mind that idea so much. What I hate is the idea of people having to pay more because the insurance system has decided that they are higher-risk than others. Smoking I could get behind, but it's a slippery slope that ends in genetic testing and paying insurance premiums based on matters that you have no control over. Genetic pre-disposition towards rare and debilitating illness? Sorry, you pay more.

Anyone advocating private insurance/healthcare needs to take a look at the various ways the US health system is completely failing. And then move there.

User pays...................

[doc]

The thing that pissed me off with the system is if you are off work due to injury or accident the payout is 80%,if you are sick the payout is way less.

ACC don't pay out anything for illness. :yawn:

[jono035]

User pays...................

Yeah, except that for the most part private health insurance is cripplingly expensive, especially if you have some form of pre-existing condition which makes it impossible for you to get insurance at all. The system is letting a lot of people down while simultaneously making a few people very rich.

[Grahameeboy]

Yeah, except that for the most part private health insurance is cripplingly expensive, especially if you have some form of pre-existing condition which makes it impossible for you to get insurance at all. The system is letting a lot of people down while simultaneously making a few people very rich.

If you have a pre-existing condition you can come under the Health system for medical help.

The trick is to take out health cover for your kids from the day that they are born...generally the kids don't cost much if at all to begin with...not sure the system is letting people down....with a disabled Daughter I agree it is not easy but it is not impossible either.

For the most part private health is not crippling expensive.....one problem is that people often take out cover too late in life, the usual syndrome.."it won't happen to me"

[doc]

For the most part private health is not crippling expensive.....one problem is that people often take out cover too late in life, the usual syndrome.."it won't happen to me"

There are some horror stories starting to surface about private health insurance for the elderly. Loyality is not something the insurance companies treasure.

[Grahameeboy]

There are some horror stories starting to surface about private health insurance for the elderly. Loyality is not something the insurance companies treasure.

This could be because they did not have an advisor or say go with a lower quality cover / insurer....my boss is a Financial Advisor this should not happen.....a lot of old folk have probably been paying the same low premium for donkeys years no realising what they are covered for

[jono035]

If you have a pre-existing condition you can come under the Health system for medical help.

The trick is to take out health cover for your kids from the day that they are born...generally the kids don't cost much if at all to begin with...not sure the system is letting people down....with a disabled Daughter I agree it is not easy but it is not impossible either.

For the most part private health is not crippling expensive.....one problem is that people often take out cover too late in life, the usual syndrome.."it won't happen to me"

And if you do that then everyone pays a similar amount for the health-care throughout the course of their lives, which basically equates to socialised health-care.

I don't think the system in this country is perfect by any stretch of the imagination, and the waste and bureaucracy can be unbelievable at times. It does seem to work for the most part though.

I'm deeply suspicious of anyone who suggests that privatisation is the answer (hasn't really done us all that much good in NZ, Telecom, and our wonderful rail system springing to mind). I generally just assume that any big business who is out to make money is doing it by trying to screw me someway or another. At least with the government you get a well-intentioned screwing...

[Grahameeboy]

And if you do that then everyone pays a similar amount for the health-care throughout the course of their lives, which basically equates to socialised health-care.

I don't think the system in this country is perfect by any stretch of the imagination, and the waste and bureaucracy can be unbelievable at times. It does seem to work for the most part though.

I'm deeply suspicious of anyone who suggests that privatisation is the answer (hasn't really done us all that much good in NZ, Telecom, and our wonderful rail system springing to mind). I generally just assume that any big business who is out to make money is doing it by trying to screw me someway or another. At least with the government you get a well-intentioned screwing...

Thing is like a helmet..you spend a fair bit of money but you only need it once....

[doc]

Thing is like a helmet..you spend a fair bit of money but you only need it once....

That was my drift in the previous post. You pay when your young and don't need it. Ppl get to the age where they need it, get one chance then can't afford it the next time premiums are due, heading into the expensive time of healthcare/life

[Grahameeboy]

That was my drift in the previous post. You pay when your young and don't need it. Ppl get to the age where they need it, get one chance then can't afford it the next time premiums are due, heading into the expensive time of healthcare/life

I know..will be able to get health cover for death soon..whatever next....

Seriously though if you have adequate cover to begin with you should be okay and premiums don't hike up that much...

[The Stranger]

Seriously though if you have adequate cover to begin with you should be okay and premiums don't hike up that much...

Ours (Southern Cross) just went up 45% to $1451.01 for 6 months and the only changes made is we all got a year older. I have had continuous cover from birth - thanks to my parents so yeah I started early.
As usual Grahameeboy, you don't know what you are talking about.

[Grahameeboy]

Ours (Southern Cross) just went up 45% to $1451.01 for 6 months and the only changes made is we all got a year older. I have had continuous cover from birth - thanks to my parents so yeah I started early.
As usual Grahameeboy, you don't know what you are talking about.

I was referring to when you made a claim.Obviously I cannot comment on your individual case. Premiums go up when you reach a certain age and then settle down till the next insurance milestone or it could just be that like a lot of Insurer's at the moment with the downturn they are putting premiums up after low increases over the last few years. NZI have been putting premiums up 30% this year...Have you called Southern Cross and asked them because the highest net increases, other than those reaching the 65 bracket, were around 20% this year.Mind you you are 99 so that could explain it.

[rosie631]

Ours (Southern Cross) just went up 45% to $1451.01 for 6 months and the only changes made is we all got a year older. I have had continuous cover from birth - thanks to my parents so yeah I started early.
As usual Grahameeboy, you don't know what you are talking about.

That's what i gather happens. They happy to take your money for 20 or 30 years when the odds of needing anything major are low. As soon as you get to an age where you might start costing them money, they hike up the premiums so much that a lot of people can't afford to keep their insurance.
I think it's fucking rude...

[The Stranger]

I was referring to when you made a claim.

When you said "premiums don't hike up that much... "? It's still bullshit. Premiums don't hike for an individual as a result of claims. You miss out on your "rewards" if you make claims, but your premiums don't hike. They hike due to age.

Obviously I cannot comment on your individual case.

Sure you can't, however it is a standard policy and we pay a standard premium for it - based on age. No "individual" element to it.


Have you called Southern Cross and asked them because the highest net increases, other than those reaching the 65 bracket, were around 20% this year.

Sure as all insurers, the angels are only too happy to help me out. They offered to reduce my premium right there and then - by offering me a policy with reduced benefits.

Hey, I aren't complaining at or about them. Just pointing out that Doc is correct, as you age cover become cost prohibitive for very many and that is the time they need it most.

[The Stranger]

That's what i gather happens. They happy to take your money for 20 or 30 years when the odds of needing anything major are low. As soon as you get to an age where you might start costing them money, they hike up the premiums so much that a lot of people can't afford to keep their insurance.
I think it's fucking rude...

Exactly. As Doc said "Loyality is not something the insurance companies treasure." Grahameeboy lives in a different world however.

[ynot slow]

I was lucky when kids were young,we saw a broker who advised us to take a surgery policy from company x as southern cross 80% was dearer and as he said you can afford $20 to go to doctor,but how about $1000 for say tonsil removal for kids,we went with at the time a policy with max cover of $25000(around 1991)and even had our youngest daughter on it,who was still unborn,and once born could add her to the policy by name.I think it cost $90mth at the time,we took out this type as my oldest daughter had a growth on her neck which although not cancerous behaved like one,i.e started small and grew,the hassles with public hospital was a pain.

We would be told Friday come in Monday,so I'd arrange my work,come Monday morning a call saying doctor away,or next week no beds due to urgent cases,think it took 4 weeks from original booking to get her operated.Our younger one required surgery for a small lump by her eye,our gp said it will be done within 6-12 mths,we said nope refer us to surgeon and we'll go private,all done within 2 weeks from consultation in Southern Cross.

I kept my policy up till the last year or so but the premium was getting to much.

[Oakie]

Getting near the time to scrap the ACC system--and go back to private insurance cover---.

Won't happen. Also I was reading an hour ago that the government has decided not to privatise the employee compensation side of ACC. Decided that they need to focus their efforts in other places because it's such a mess.

[Grahameeboy]

Sure as all insurers, the angels are only too happy to help me out. They offered to reduce my premium right there and then - by offering me a policy with reduced benefits.

Hey, I aren't complaining at or about them. Just pointing out that Doc is correct, as you age cover become cost prohibitive for very many and that is the time they need it most.
To reiterate I was referring to Claims not hiking up premiums.I agree premiums go up with age but there tends to be a bigger increase when you hit certain age milestones was what I was saying.Maybe you should shop around..I would refer you to my Boss but I can anticipate your response...

[The Stranger]

I would refer you to my Boss but I can anticipate your response...

Really?
I haven't started on fooken crooked dishonest financial advisors yet have I?
Do they have to declare pecuniary interest yet? Bloody scum!

[Grahameeboy]

Really?
I haven't started on fooken crooked dishonest financial advisors yet have I?
Do they have to declare pecuniary interest yet? Bloody scum!

I am happy to refer you even if you just want to have a chat and compare...my Boss is not in anyway dodgy...if he was I would not work for him.He does not have any pecuniary interests in the firms that he uses. We use Asteron & Sovereign.Let me know eh?

[The Stranger]

I am happy to refer you even if you just want to have a chat and compare...my Boss is not in anyway dodgy...if he was I would not work for him.He does not have any pecuniary interests in the firms that he uses. We use Asteron & Sovereign.Let me know eh?

So he charges the client for his services then?
Hmm, perhaps times have moved on.
What sort of costs will I be paying for his advice?

[Grahameeboy]

So he charges the client for his services then?
Hmm, perhaps times have moved on.
What sort of costs will I be paying for his advice?

He does not charge a fee for his services as the commission for life & health is very good. He can talk to you on the phone and arrange a quote.We find that full medical cover which incorporates some dental & optical covers (with limits) is reasonably expensive and we find that most of our clients opt for a "surgery & specialist" medical cover, which means they pass the "big ticket" operation costs etc on to the insurer and "self insure" by covering the costs of doctors and prescriptions themselves. Most of our clients can pay for these doctors and prescriptions from the savings they have made by not having the full medical cover.

[The Stranger]

He does not charge a fee for his services as the commission for life & health is very good. He can talk to you on the phone and arrange a quote.We find that full medical cover which incorporates some dental & optical covers (with limits) is reasonably expensive and we find that most of our clients opt for a "surgery & specialist" medical cover, which means they pass the "big ticket" operation costs etc on to the insurer and "self insure" by covering the costs of doctors and prescriptions themselves. Most of our clients can pay for these doctors and prescriptions from the savings they have made by not having the full medical cover.

Gah thud!
So he either does this for free or is paid by the insurer.

I'm going with a hunch here and guessing the latter.
So what stops him from placing his client's with the insurer (say sovereign) who pays him the most money for placing client's with them?
Does he put his client's interests before his own by perhaps placing their investments with the institution that pays him the least, but obtains the best returns for the client? Anyone for a Tui?

[Grahameeboy]

Gah thud!
So he either does this for free or is paid by the insurer.

I'm going with a hunch here and guessing the latter.
So what stops him from placing his client's with the insurer (say sovereign) who pays him the most money for placing client's with them?
Does he put his client's interests before his own by perhaps placing their investments with the institution that pays him the least, but obtains the best returns for the client? Anyone for a Tui?

He gets a commission and it is the same which ever Insurer. No different to me going to work and getting paid.If you read my post you will see that he put's Client's interests first....in that case he could have got Client to pay $4,000 odd but suggested a lower cost option..."yes"

[swbarnett]

Yeah, except that for the most part private health insurance is cripplingly expensive, especially if you have some form of pre-existing condition which makes it impossible for you to get insurance at all. The system is letting a lot of people down while simultaneously making a few people very rich.
The American system is probably a good example of a private health system gone wrong. It's lacking the basic principles that make private health care possible - guaranteed acceptance (no medical or disclosure of pre-existing conditions required) and Government funding of premiums for those that truly can't afford them.

[MaxB]

ACC should keep thier noses out of the social engineering they got into under labour. They should accept Kiwis' pastimes and habits and insure accordingly which was their original purpose, instead of trying to turn this country into a souless risk free hell hole.

If they get their way we would all be walking around in cotton wool suits and hi viz vests.

[The Stranger]

He gets a commission and it is the same which ever Insurer. No different to me going to work and getting paid.

So are you now telling me the insurers are engaging in price fixing? Is there no end to the corruption in this industry?

And yes, it is WAY different - IF you are holding yourself out to give independent financial advice and you are instead giving advice based on what's best for you then you are lying. Personally I tend to not lie at work.

[The Stranger]

He gets a commission and it is the same which ever Insurer. No different to me going to work and getting paid.If you read my post you will see that he put's Client's interests first....in that case he could have got Client to pay $4,000 odd but suggested a lower cost option..."yes"

Ah I see (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2008/0091/latest/DLM1584202.html), as they were unable to clean up their act on their own the govt finally decided to step in and clean up the wild west. About time too!

[Grahameeboy]

So are you now telling me the insurers are engaging in price fixing? Is there no end to the corruption in this industry?

And yes, it is WAY different - IF you are holding yourself out to give independent financial advice and you are instead giving advice based on what's best for you then you are lying. Personally I tend to not lie at work.

Geeze...no wonder your premiums have gone up........have you not read my posts...I have not said that or inferred that...go back to one oof my earlier posts when I explained a real case example where my boss gave advice in the Client's favour and probably reduced his commission by about $700.

[Grahameeboy]

Ah I see (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2008/0091/latest/DLM1584202.html), as they were unable to clean up their act on their own the govt finally decided to step in and clean up the wild west. About time too!

The only wild west appears to be alive and well on Te Atatu Road dude....