Buying adv bike sight unseen?

[SlowHand]

So I finally decided what Im going to do with my moolah, and seems there aren't too many bikes around Auckland..

Watchlist contains DR350, DRZ400, XR600, DT230, and gas gas pampera 400. Under 5k

Don't want it snowballing into an expensive machine, and worried more about road manners since dirt will be foreign enough anyway. I don't expect a mile muncher or a coroGP scratcher. Capable is what I'm looking for.

Should I do what I did with my previous 2 bikes and buy it unseen? After getting a shop to check it out of course. Feeling a bit reserved this time since the 2 I did buy were from KB members, and quite new.

Can some DT230 owners shed some light on their bikes? Had an RG150 as 1st bike, and used to cost me $80+ in gas and 2 stroke oil around coro, which I don't want to repeat.

Thanks team!! :scooter:

[Motu]

The DT230 would have the lowest seat height (865 from memory),but don't know about the Pampera....the 250 Pampera was a 2 stroke and had a low seat.I got about 170km to reserve,about 10 litres,and the oil tank lasts 900km or so,but depends on how hard you push it.The DT230 will sit at 100 to 120kph happily....but you might not be too happy doing long rides on it.But it's an adventure bike,there will be lots of corners and stuff - good for that,but pretty aggressive.

The DR350 would be the best road bike,worst dirt bike,followed by the XR600.DT230 and Pampera will be better off road,lighter and better suspn.Given your choice - I'd go for the Pampera,then the DT230.The DR350 and XR600 will be pigs off road...but others will think they are better.

[junkmanjoe]

i had a XR600R and mate, if you couldnt get the start bit sorted it was a bitch to kick.
i spent 20mins one morn, was late for work as well... sold it, electric start now....:scooter:

[marks]

the DT230 feels like a 'little bike' (identical dimensions to DT125) but has plenty of power. It doesn't really like constant speed and is happiest 'on the gas' - typical 2 stroke.

I've ridden mine some reasonable distances (Molesworth/Rainbow/Porika etc) and its tiring but quite capable. Best economy 200km tank - worst 100km tank.

Its quite ok as a mild trail bike and has good smooth low speed torque.

I'll be selling my one sometime this year as my other bikes do a better job in their own areas. If I could only have one bike and was on limited funds the DT230 would fit the bill nicely.

[Motu]

Cutting back to one road bike,I was very tempted to keep the DT230 - it's the most fun bike I've had in years,and so much more capable as a road bike than I thought.And yeah,it's on gas all the time! Not hard to do,but hard to stop doing.But I wanted to do something completely different,and am pleased I did.

[SlowHand]

Sounds like there are DT230 lovers. TBH I've wanted one for a while, reading Motu's posts from while back inc the pic of the motard. Are the oil and fuel figures for the DT Motu? Pampera it seems has 7.5L tank, which wouldn't leave much room in my camel back for water..

The whole point of switching from sportsbikes is to further my bike skills, and have more fun away from the influx of traffic cops, so aggressive 2 smoker interests me, may regret that as bruises and bills increase!

Main concern is plasticy(?) looks and not being a mainstream bike vs my noob skills. Am I just paranoid? And how does the drz400 compare? Only marginally better than the 350?

[CrazyFrog]

DRZ400 will be far superior to DR350. Weight is similar, better in every other way. They're reliable, bulletproof, cheap to maintain, search the thread forums for DRZ and there's plenty of info out there.
I got mine (road legal too) for $3500, with only 2500km on it, bought on TradeMe, sight unseen. The key is, BUY IN WINTER! You should be able to find one around for less than $5000 if you're prepared to shop around. I just asked the right questions, and trusted the guys word. Ask a few general maintenance questions and generally you can get an idea if the seller knows what he's doing or talking about, and if he's looked after it.
I've bought 4 bikes now, sight unseen, and they've all been good. One bike was owned by a chick, and that was the only one that was slightly misrepresented, delivered dirty and a crack in one fairing panel. Mechanically it was sweet, the price was right tho and hell, cleaning a bike is easy.
The internet is your friend brother!

[Skinny_Birdman]

For what it's worth, I'd be inclined to try hard to find one locally to test ride before you buy, (even if you intend to buy a different one - and I know I'm going to hell for suggesting that) or find a friendly local KB'er who'll give you a go on theirs. While I won't comment either way on the wisdom of buying sight unseen, it is a total piss-off owning a bike you don't get on with. I wasted $5000 on my BMW to discover this truth.

BTW Slowhand, I love your avatar - classic jelly-mould in the colour scheme described in the Haynes Manual as the "Bennetton colour-box explosion". Now there was a bike I got on with!

[warewolf]

And how does the drz400 compare? Only marginally better than the 350?Better... hmm yes, as the 400 is the all-new next-generation bike.

However, the DR350 would make a better noob adv bike in some ways. The 400 is pretty tall in the saddle and has radiators to break; it's definitely the more capable off-road bike which is not your stated aim, and can be read as the less capable adv bike. Parts-wise the DR350 and DR250 (and DR-Z250 which was only a name change not a new bike) have a lot of similarity dating back to 1990 or so.

[NordieBoy]

And the DR350 can be taken out to 441cc for $500us later on :D


I want a DR350 as my small adv bike and cross country weapon.

[Willdat?]

There seems to be quite a few tidy DR350s around trademe at the moment...

[Waihou Thumper]

I've bought 4 bikes now, sight unseen, and they've all been good. One bike was owned by a chick, and that was the only one that was slightly misrepresented, delivered dirty and a crack in one fairing panel. Mechanically it was sweet, the price was right tho and hell, cleaning a bike is easy.
The internet is your friend brother!

AND, one of them was off me.....I wasn't the chick either...Glad you enjoyed the purchase...
I would not hesitate buying sight unseen either. It seems that this is the way we do things now given the power of the Internet...
As CrazyFrog states, Internet is your friend out there, use it...AS long as you ask the right questions and you get good vibes, go for it!

[SlowHand]

Thanks guys!

Yes definately noticing the influx of dr350s for sale. Wonder where they were before I took myself off the road.

Going to have a look at these 3 in auck, then maybe couple in te awamutu

DRZ400 - http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=228519063
XR600 - http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=226536339
DR650 - http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=227284117

Te Awamutu:
DT230 - http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=228629279
DR350 - http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=227001751

Hopefully I really like one of the Auckland ones and don't need to go too far!

Skinny Birdman - It is awesome. I saw it on trademe for sale a while back. Ice cream explosion.

[merv]

DR350 has a six speed gearbox while the DRZ400 is a five speed and with a better spread of gears certainly helps the road/off-road equation in the one bike.

Too late to buy the DR350SE I had for sale http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=95766 because Pampera bought it.

[warewolf]

DR350 has a six speed gearbox while the DRZ400 is a five speed and with a better spread of gears certainly helps the road/off-road equation in the one bike.Which one has the better spread of gears... the DR350?

I gather it's better than the DR250 box which you thought was a bit narrow?

[bart]

I had a DR350 and it was a good bike. Now I have a DRZ400, which is a GREAT bike (if not doing huge distance).

If the km's on that one on trade me are correct, it would be hard to beat. A one legged man must have owned it though, as there is bugger all wear around the frame/engine cover beside back brake lever.

[NordieBoy]

If the km's on that one on trade me are correct, it would be hard to beat. A one legged man must have owned it though, as there is bugger all wear around the frame/engine cover beside back brake lever.


Not everyone is as hard on bikes when there's a camera around as you.

[SlowHand]

I had a DR350 and it was a good bike. Now I have a DRZ400, which is a GREAT bike (if not doing huge distance).

If the km's on that one on trade me are correct, it would be hard to beat. A one legged man must have owned it though, as there is bugger all wear around the frame/engine cover beside back brake lever.

Yeah I did note lack of wear on both sides, but I read the brake lever is the first thing to puncture the engine cover so maybe it's been down and replaced? Nothing a few Q's and viewing wouldnt clarify

[XF650]

I would be reluctant to buy used bikes sight unseen, without getting someone independant to check them out. There's much that can't be seen in a pic, plus there are often different expectations of what meets a certain standard. Newer / low km bikes might be an exception but remember that most adv bikes have been off road and through water, plus many have been dropped.
Enjoy the excuse to test ride as many different bikes as you can.

[bart]

I would never buy anything of value unseen (unless new). But I'm a tight bugger. It takes far too long to earn the stuff, to go throwing it away. ;)

A mate of mine bought a bike off TM a couple of years ago. We both went and checked it over one night. Met the guy at a pub half way. Had a real good look over it. Took it for a quick thrash (well, it was a CR500). Handed over the $$$$. Loaded up and took it home. :woohoo::scooter:

Next morning, on closer inspection, we found it was a real shitter. Metal putty everywhere. Lesson = TAKE A TORCH. :Oops:

On the up side, for the amount he paid, he still got a bargain.

[merv]

Which one has the better spread of gears... the DR350?


Yep the DR350. I use as a measure of spread the ratio between first and top gear because if you are looking to do all things with the one bike you want nice low gears for the hard out bits and a tall top gear for highway cruising.

On my scale a DR350 has a ratio of 3.026 on that measure whereas the DRZ400 is only 2.647. As a comparo the DR/DRZ 250 is 2.925 whereas the Honda XR250s are 3.402. This is why I grizzled about the close ratios on the Suzuki 250 when I had that because I was used to the Honda type ratios and have gone back to them now and can't complain any more.

[bart]

Yep the DR350. I use as a measure of spread the ratio between first and top gear because if you are looking to do all things with the one bike you want nice low gears for the hard out bits and a tall top gear for highway cruising.

On my scale a DR350 has a ratio of 3.026 on that measure whereas the DRZ400 is only 2.647. As a comparo the DR/DRZ 250 is 2.925 whereas the Honda XR250s are 3.402. This is why I grizzled about the close ratios on the Suzuki 250 when I had that because I was used to the Honda type ratios and have gone back to them now and can't complain any more.

You're missing one point though. Torque. With more torque you can use more of the rev range in each gear, so can get away with narrower ratios.

[bart]

Not everyone is as hard on bikes when there's a camera around as you.

Yeah I know. Best to stay behind the camera, not in front of it. :bash:

[warewolf]

With more torque you can use more of the rev range in each gear, so can get away with narrower ratios.Yebbut that just means in a narrow gearbox you get heaps of overlap between the gears, for the same low/high speed overall.

Much smarter to spread the gears out and utilitise the torque to create a greater difference between achievable low and high speeds.

[warewolf]

On my scale a DR350 has a ratio of 3.026 on that measure whereas the DRZ400 is only 2.647. As a comparo the DR/DRZ 250 is 2.925 whereas the Honda XR250s are 3.402.The DR650 is 2.93 and the 640A 3.06.

3.4 would be nicerer.

Be interesting to see the numbers on the BMW 1150GS with/without the overdrive 6th. Tall enough that it isn't effective for overtaking near the speed limit... as it should be.

[CRM]

If you're looking at mostly road I'd say the DR350 would be better than the DRZ400 - lower seat height and just better manners. I would check out the Pampera 400 though as they would have the performance of the DRZ but be better on the road (lower seat height).

I had a DRZ400 and found it unpleasant on the road. I had a 250 Pampera (2-stroke) which was totally different to the 400 Pampera being a 4 stroke. I've had a sit on a 400 Pampera and liked it a lot. Then I rode an XR600 and fell in love with the power and decent road manners. pretty good off road too as long as you think ahead (ie if possible stay out of places where the weight and lack of e-start will be a problem). I've learned not to be put off so much by the age of bikes either - the old DR's and XR's were killer machines and simpler than the modern ones.

I've also bought a couple of bikes sight-unseen and had no problems. I think you can suss out a person by talking on the phone and by what they say in emails and if you have suspicions move on.

[merv]

Yebbut that just means in a narrow gearbox you get heaps of overlap between the gears, for the same low/high speed overall.

Much smarter to spread the gears out and utilitise the torque to create a greater difference between achievable low and high speeds.

Eggsackery, the more torque an engine has the wider the ratios can be without a problem. That's why I haven't understood the change to closer ratios on a lot of these dirt bikes with fairly large engines.

To make my Suzuki 250 even vaguely capable in the dirt I had to put a 12t front sprocket on it in place of the 14t and then I had to go up and down the gears too much and it seems pointless that a 400 has a closer ratio box than that had.

[bart]

Yebbut that just means in a narrow gearbox you get heaps of overlap between the gears, for the same low/high speed overall.

Much smarter to spread the gears out and utilitise the torque to create a greater difference between achievable low and high speeds.

I'm the first to admit the DRZ400 has a too closer ratio box, (I was actualy meaning more along the lines of the DR650), but............with more torque, you can gear it high for the road, but still have enough grunt to lug along in a high first. Technical tracks through trees and hill climbs are a different story, but all adventure riding is a compromise, and that is really dirt bike terrain.

[SlowHand]

Right, now I'm even more confused. Haha. Comes with learning more so thanks guys.

Seems they're all good in there own way. I'll sort something out with those bikes then report back. Spose the cheapest non-lemon bike will be most ideal until I decide what riding I really enjoy.

[warewolf]

but............with more torque, you can gear it high for the road, but still have enough grunt to lug along in a high first. Technical tracks through trees and hill climbs are a different story, but all adventure riding is a compromise, and that is really dirt bike terrain.It'd be much less of a compromise if the gearbox had a better spread to suit the broad torque range (and dare I say it, dual uses) of most dual-purpose bikes. There's way too many adventure riders want more gear spread, even if they aren't doing single track through the trees. Part of the problem is simply not wanting to rev hard at highway cruise - even if you have the torque spread, you just don't want to be spinning the engine that hard.

The best compromise for longer trips is to swap out front sprockets, but that's not so good when you are in & out of rugged stuff en route.

[warewolf]

Right, now I'm even more confused.
...
Seems they're all good in there own way. I'll sort something out with those bikes then report back. Spose the cheapest non-lemon bike will be most ideal until I decide what riding I really enjoy.There's a huge range in the adventure spectrum, and you really need to decide how you want to use the bike before you can decide which one. Getting something/anything that will not lose too much money on changeover, while you work out what you want, is a good idea. Doesn't necessarily have to be cheap, just saleable for close to what you paid.

You can get quite analytical; make a list of the must haves, the must nots, and see where the bikes fall.

Or you can follow your heart not your head, and buy the one you lay awake at night dreaming about. Riding is about enjoyment. It's no good buying the one the soulless accountant recommends if you aren't enjoying it and wish you were on something else.

[SlowHand]

So drz400 up and down a drive, not exactly thorough I know.

Felt slow for road, and maybe slightly heavy for real tight stuff. So I can see what it was designed to do. Lot more pep than what I expected after riding my mates drz250.

Can't help but wonder what another 200cc would be like

[CRM]

So drz400 up and down a drive, not exactly thorough I know.

Felt slow for road, and maybe slightly heavy for real tight stuff. So I can see what it was designed to do. Lot more pep than what I expected after riding my mates drz250.

Can't help but wonder what another 200cc would be like

Yeah that was how I felt when I test rode mine - gearing was too low/ close for comfortable open road cruising - even around town I would get into 5th and be looking for another gear sometimes. Also the height and weight combined if you have shorter legs was a challenge in the tight stuff. It was ideal for forestry roads, open farmland, tight gravel - that sort of thing (Mine was a DRZ400E - off road one that had been made road legal) but not fun doing any distance on seal.

[NordieBoy]

I felt the DRZ400 I rode on the DB1000 went fine. Nice and light and a nice responsive motor. Good suspension too. Tootled throuh the twistys fine and revved out to 140kph on gravel ok.




The seat however...

[mattsdakar]

I currently have my 1999 DR350 on TM for $3,400 ono
I quanrantee it is as described and in excellent mechanical order.
My phone contact details are in the TM add, give me a call
Rgds Matt