Request to give information as to identity of driver question

[BiK3RChiK]

I am the registered owner of a number of vehicles which a number of different drivers use. Today I received in the mail from the NZ Police a 'Request to give information as to the identity of driver of one of my vehicles for 3 weeks ago! What's the story with these? Does anyone know? I cannot be 100% certain as to who is driving what vehicle 3 weeks ago, so what do I disclose or not? And what happens if I do nothing? Do I ignore the threats on the paper, or not?

TIA

[Mully]

IIRC, the Police can ping you pretty hard if you don't comply. If you honestly don't remember, you could probably do an affidavit saying so.

I'm sure the local bush lawyers will be here in a minute anyway.

[BiK3RChiK]

Well, because it was so long ago (for me!) haha and I don't have any idea who drove my car even last week, since I am the registered owner of at least 4 different vehicles on my property and my husband is the owner of a couple and my son owns his own machine also, all resident at my address, and all driven by various personages at different and varying times, and I'm not even home half the time anyways, it looks like I'll have to answer the 'I don't know' option. Not that they give you options..... just want the name. How the hell am I supposed to know that? That was a lifetime ago in my world!

[RT527]

Well, because it was so long ago (for me!) haha and I don't have any idea who drove my car even last week, since I am the registered owner of at least 4 different vehicles on my property and my husband is the owner of a couple and my son owns his own machine also, all resident at my address, and all driven by various personages at different and varying times, and I'm not even home half the time anyways, it looks like I'll have to answer the 'I don't know' option. Not that they give you options..... just want the name. How the hell am I supposed to know that? That was a lifetime ago in my world!

Im not 100% sure but if you can not provide the name of the driver that was driving the vehicle at the time then the registered owner gets the ticket.

[Mom]

Im not 100% sure but if you can not provide the name of the driver that was driving the vehicle at the time then the registered owner gets the ticket.

I dont think the registered owner gets the ticket, I think they get fined for not disclosing the details, no doubt someone will have the details. In fact I think I read a thread not so long ago about this. A search should bring up the outcome.

[Katman]

Tell DB to man the fuck up.

[BiK3RChiK]

I'd vigourously defend a ticket in relation to me driving the stated vehicle and I'd give proof that I wasn't the driver. I think the cops would be barking up the wrong tree there and wasting court time. I don't think judges look too kindly on having their time wasted in such a manner. Just because I'm the registered owner of a vehicle doesn't mean I know who is driving the vehicle registered in my name every minute of the day. I'm a very busy person and my vehicles are available to a number of people throughout the day, and I have no record or way of finding out who was driving the vehicle at the time stated. So we'll see.....

[Taz]

Ignorance is not a defence. I'm sure they have some thing they'll do you for. :msn-wink:

[Dave Lobster]

I think the cops would be barking up the wrong tree there and wasting court time. ..

Doesn't matter to them. They get paid the same whether they're sitting in court or catching rapists/muggers/thieves (not murderers though)


I don't think judges look too kindly on having their time wasted in such a manner..

Barry Hart is still employed, and does this for a living. Was doing it today..

[BiK3RChiK]

Well, you're all a helpful lot aren't ya!:bleh:

[Taz]

Just ignore it, thay can't make you disclose who was driving, they'll just give up and it'll all go away......
That what you want to hear??:bleh:



















Yeah right!

[Mikkel]

Sell everything you own, get a false passport and get on the first plane for Buernos Aires!

It'll work fine until you get old and sick - then you can always come back home and spend the rest of your life being sick in jail...

[Winston001]

Sell everything you own, get a false passport and get on the first plane for Buenos Aires!

It'll work fine until you get old and sick - then you can always come back home and spend the rest of your life being sick in jail...

What he said!! :headbang:

[Winston001]

I'd vigourously defend a ticket in relation to me driving the stated vehicle and I'd give proof that I wasn't the driver. I think the cops would be barking up the wrong tree there and wasting court time. I don't think judges look too kindly on having their time wasted in such a manner. Just because I'm the registered owner of a vehicle doesn't mean I know who is driving the vehicle registered in my name every minute of the day. I'm a very busy person and my vehicles are available to a number of people throughout the day, and I have no record or way of finding out who was driving the vehicle at the time stated. So we'll see.....

You are barking up the wrong tree entirely.

I haven't looked at this for ages but essentially the law says the registered owner must supply the name and particulars of the driver of the vehicle when asked.

If you do not, cannot, or refuse, you are then liable for a different charge of failing to supply particulars. The fine is steep. You will not be charged with the driving offence because as you say, the police cannot prove you to be the driver.

Parliament foresaw people refusing to give info years ago and created this special offence.

You can of course defend the charge but the only way I've ever heard a successful defence is where the vehicle has been stolen. Otherwise its your vehicle, your responsibility, you track down the driver.

[Mully]

Well, you're all a helpful lot aren't ya!:bleh:

PM some of the police on here. I think it's come up before.

[Gremlin]

Yes, its come up before.

Essentially, what has normally happened is that the vehicle has been witnessed doing something (usually illegal) and it is your responsibility as the registered owner to know who is driving the vehicle (at all times, I believe).

They issue you with that notice to identify who the driver was. You must reply within 14 days (if I remember correctly) or you can be pursued for up to $10,000 or jail time (3 months was it?). Replying saying I don't know is not a response they will take kindly to, and usually follow this with a phone call.

If you cannot (or will not) name who was the driver at the time, then you, as the registered owner will be held liable. Depending on how the previous phone call went (if you have one), they may take kindly to you and reduce the charges.... or not.... Either way, it doesn't just disappear.

Of course, there may not be a ticket for anything, but they don't usually randomly ask who was driving x vehicle at x time for absolutely no reason.

[Squiggles]

Of course you could ask for details, to assist you in id'ing the person who was driving...

[Murray]

Doesn't matter to them. They get paid the same whether they're sitting in court or catching rapists/muggers/thieves (not murderers though)



Do they still catch rapists/muggers/thieves??????

[SixPackBack]

Do they still catch rapists/muggers/thieves??????

Sometimes.

Usually after a random stop or speeding ticket.

[The Baron]

Hi. You could just tell them the truth. Write a nice letter telling them that there are three/four possible drivers and ask they provide you with more information that would help you in providing this information to them.

[p.dath]

I'd vigourously defend a ticket in relation to me driving the stated vehicle and I'd give proof that I wasn't the driver. I think the cops would be barking up the wrong tree there and wasting court time. I don't think judges look too kindly on having their time wasted in such a manner. Just because I'm the registered owner of a vehicle doesn't mean I know who is driving the vehicle registered in my name every minute of the day. I'm a very busy person and my vehicles are available to a number of people throughout the day, and I have no record or way of finding out who was driving the vehicle at the time stated. So we'll see.....

The law is pretty clear in this area. If the registered owner can't say who it was then they pretty much accept responsibility for it.

[SixPackBack]

Hi. You could just tell them the truth. Write a nice letter telling them that there are three/four possible drivers and ask they provide you with more information that would help you in providing this information to them.

I have been through this process.

Tell the cop what he wants to hear, any other approach is interpreted as 'attitude' [whatever the fuck that is] and a court date will at some stage ensue.

Such is the state of NZ law and order all that is needed for a conviction is some dodgy copper pointing the chicken bone. Employing a lawyer is pointless, the charge may be dropped but it will cost you more.

Perhaps the only way of getting out of an impending charge [when/if the details of the alleged offence are produced] is the possibility that:

The copper was mistaken or telling porkies [both distinct possibilities].
A riding partner/s witnessed your behaviour that day and had a completely different recollection.
A witness will reduce the amount of lawyer cost and perhaps get you off the charge.
If you do have a witness you can point this out at your court hearing, the case should be adjourned and your witness subpoenaed.

In my case this would have not worked as my witness required payment, if he had been subpoenaed I may have had a hostile witness to deal with as well as a lying copper. Additionally paying the witness not only pushed the cost out, but for me personally cast doubt on the veracity of his recollection.

One other point: If the accusation is correct, tell the truth.

[paturoa]

..... all driven by various personages at different and varying times...

I assume that it is a limited number of peeps that it could have been, get the details from the popo and ask them.

[boomer]

In my case this would have not worked as my witness required payment,

I fukin nearly choked when i heard this.. who needs enemies huh.

[Big Dave]

Just tell them it was Boomer.

[boomer]

Just tell them it was Boomer.

I gotta be good for summit huh

[Big Dave]

I gotta be good for summit huh

My Motto.

I can always be used as a bad example.

[scumdog]

Do they still catch rapists/muggers/thieves??????

No, otherwise how would we wind-up SPB?

Speeding tickets are the only way to go:woohoo:

[scumdog]

Yes, its come up before.

Essentially, what has normally happened is that the vehicle has been witnessed doing something (usually illegal) and it is your responsibility as the registered owner to know who is driving the vehicle (at all times, I believe).

They issue you with that notice to identify who the driver was. You must reply within 14 days (if I remember correctly) or you can be pursued for up to $10,000 or jail time (3 months was it?). Replying saying I don't know is not a response they will take kindly to, and usually follow this with a phone call.

If you cannot (or will not) name who was the driver at the time, then you, as the registered owner will be held liable. Depending on how the previous phone call went (if you have one), they may take kindly to you and reduce the charges.... or not.... Either way, it doesn't just disappear.

Of course, there may not be a ticket for anything, but they don't usually randomly ask who was driving x vehicle at x time for absolutely no reason.

Nothing to worry about, last dude to go to Court for it down here only got a $1,500 fine - waay below the $10,000 max.

[jrandom]

This is why you should only do runners when you're sure they haven't seen the number plate.

[scumdog]

This is why you should only do runners when you're sure they haven't seen the number plate.

Yeah, always stop to ask if they've seen you number-plate, ya just can't be too careful people:rolleyes:

[Big Dave]

Yeah, always stop to ask if they've seen you number-plate, ya just can't be too careful people:rolleyes:

You'd think it would be easy to see on that push bike.

[BiK3RChiK]

Well, this is not getting me anywhere. How do companies get on that have multiple vehicles, with multiple drivers? I'm not a company, but I do own a business with business vehicles, and I also own private vehicles. If I'm at work, and someone else is driving my private vehicle which was parked at home when I left for work, I'm still responsible for knowing who is driving it? Although I left maybe hours before? What a crock!

I'll supply information, but it probably won't be want they want to know, since I DON'T KNOW! This alleged offence (whatever it was) was 3 weeks ago! yeah, right.......

[BMWST?]

as the registered owner you are responsible for telling the police who had the vehicle at the time.A speed camera ussually shows the identity of the driver quite clearly,but you have to ask per teh pic.
Any company that i work(ed) for has a "book" to fill out for "mixed" use.Its not a crock.How good would it be if a company vehicle did damage to your property and the company said...we dont know who was driving...tough luck.

[Indoo]

Well, this is not getting me anywhere. How do companies get on that have multiple vehicles, with multiple drivers?

Logbooks, sign out sheets etc, all companies use them.


If I'm at work, and someone else is driving my private vehicle which was parked at home when I left for work, I'm still responsible for knowing who is driving it?.......

If its your private vehicle then of course you should know who was driving it, surely they would have to ask if they could use your car and get the keys off you?

Theres basically no loophole or easy defence you can use, pretty much everyone uses that excuse of 'I dunno' and it doesn't get them far, its one of the responsibilities of being a car owner and registering a car in your name. It's usually a couple of grand depending on the offence in question, if you genuinely don't know might pay to ask those who 'could' have been driving it to fess up and save you from the fine.

[Winston001]

Well, this is not getting me anywhere. How do companies get on that have multiple vehicles, with multiple drivers? I'm not a company, but I do own a business with business vehicles, and I also own private vehicles. If I'm at work, and someone else is driving my private vehicle which was parked at home when I left for work, I'm still responsible for knowing who is driving it? Although I left maybe hours before? What a crock!

I'll supply information, but it probably won't be want they want to know, since I DON'T KNOW! This alleged offence (whatever it was) was 3 weeks ago! yeah, right.......

You still don't get it :bleh:.

Personal responsibility. How would you feel if your vehicle had hit-and-run a child? Disinterested? Bad luck?

If you are going to permit other people to drive a vehicle registered to you, then you need to realise responsibilities flow. That is exactly what businesses do - keep a record for situations like this.

This law has been around for a long time. Even before speed cameras.

[p.dath]

Well, this is not getting me anywhere. How do companies get on that have multiple vehicles, with multiple drivers? I'm not a company, but I do own a business with business vehicles, and I also own private vehicles. If I'm at work, and someone else is driving my private vehicle which was parked at home when I left for work, I'm still responsible for knowing who is driving it? Although I left maybe hours before? What a crock!

I'll supply information, but it probably won't be want they want to know, since I DON'T KNOW! This alleged offence (whatever it was) was 3 weeks ago! yeah, right.......

Because of FBT, you can't just allow staff the free use of a vehicle. For example, if it was possible for a staff member to take a car to get lunch, even if they didn't, then you have to pay FBT on that vehicle. A vehicle just has to be "available for personal use" to attract FBT.

So an easy solution is no one is allowed to use a vehicle unless they have been assigned it to do a job. Because they have been assigned, we know who had it at any point in time.

[BiK3RChiK]

If its your private vehicle then of course you should know who was driving it, surely they would have to ask if they could use your car and get the keys off you?
Of course they don't! It's a family vehicle which just happens to be registered in my name like a lot of the other vehicles we own, simply because I was the one who did the paperwork when they were purchased. The keys hang on the family communal key hooks, so are available to everyone.



Theres basically no loophole or easy defence you can use, pretty much everyone uses that excuse of 'I dunno' and it doesn't get them far, its one of the responsibilities of being a car owner and registering a car in your name. It's usually a couple of grand depending on the offence in question, if you genuinely don't know might pay to ask those who 'could' have been driving it to fess up and save you from the fine.

Well, looks like I'm screwed then. I've asked who was driving the vehicle on the day specified and I pretty much got 'You are joking, right?' along with bemused looks. After explaining the situation, of course no one is going to fess up! Do you think they are going to put their necks on a chopping block? But I suspect by the incredulous looks and 'What the ..... ??' kind of comments, that, either it was extremely minor and someone is on a wild goose chase, or, someone is guilty of crashing my car into someone and miraculously repairing it to the same condition as it's been in for some years, which I highly doubt is even possible; or it's a case of mistaken ID of vehicle.

I'll just have to see how it's going to pan out. What a bizarre situation. :mad:

[Starky307]

Just because I'm the registered owner of a vehicle doesn't mean I know who is driving the vehicle registered in my name every minute of the day. I'm a very busy person and my vehicles are available to a number of people throughout the day, and I have no record or way of finding out who was driving the vehicle at the time stated.

That is a poor attitude to have towards a motor vehicle that is owned by you. You should know who is driving the vehicles registered under your name at all times, it is your responsibility.

[jono035]

Of course they don't! It's a family vehicle which just happens to be registered in my name like a lot of the other vehicles we own, simply because I was the one who did the paperwork when they were purchased. The keys hang on the family communal key hooks, so are available to everyone.



Well, looks like I'm screwed then. I've asked who was driving the vehicle on the day specified and I pretty much got 'You are joking, right?' along with bemused looks. After explaining the situation, of course no one is going to fess up! Do you think they are going to put their necks on a chopping block? But I suspect by the incredulous looks and 'What the ..... ??' kind of comments, that, either it was extremely minor and someone is on a wild goose chase, or, someone is guilty of crashing my car into someone and miraculously repairing it to the same condition as it's been in for some years, which I highly doubt is even possible; or it's a case of mistaken ID of vehicle.

I'll just have to see how it's going to pan out. What a bizarre situation. :mad:

Try find out what they want the name for. If no-one owns up then punish them all in some way, at least restrict their use of the vehicles that are in your name. Keep hold of the keys unless they ask and note who uses it when.

Every time I had an issue with one of my parents cars I told them straight away and never tried to cover it up. That was how I was raised and that is what I was taught was the right and responsible way to behave.

[mowgli]

I'll just have to see how it's going to pan out. What a bizarre situation. :mad:

Woah there! Don't get sucked into this OT debate about personal responsibility. Start with a polite letter or phone call asking for further details that might help you identify the driver. Who knows? You might find the witness (not necessarily a copper) got the plate slightly wrong and you're being hunted for tailgating in Balclutha!! Not so long ago a company down south got similar when their forklift was [edit: allegedly] clocked speeding on the open road. If it was your vehicle then the location or description of the occupants may make it easy to id the driver.

If you do ultimately get landed with it - that would suck majorly.

[jono035]

Woah there! Don't get sucked into this OT debate about personal responsibility. Start with a polite letter or phone call asking for further details that might help you identify the driver. Who knows? You might find the witness (not necessarily a copper) got the plate slightly wrong and you're being hunted for tailgating in Balclutha!! Not so long ago a company down south got similar when their forklift was clocked speeding on the open road. If it was your vehicle then the location or description of the occupants may make it easy to id the driver.

If you do ultimately get landed with it - that would suck majorly.

Gotta watch out for those speeding forklifts man, they're a hazard! Haven't you ever seen Bro'Town.

[Mom]

I think you should use this as a test case :yes:

Be honest and tell them you have no idea who was driving at the time :cool:

See what happens :niceone:

The advice you have been given on here is probably wrong anyway :niceone:

Keep us posted eh :done:

[Hoon]

If you can't identify the driver then you'll have to accept the responsibility yourself and learn from your mistake. Divide the fine amongst all those family members that use the vehicle, if anyone doesn't pay up then no more keys for them. If you can get details of where/when the incident took place you should be able to narrow it down to who it was (or wasn't).

[Winston001]

Start with a polite letter or phone call asking for further details that might help you identify the driver. Who knows? You might find the witness (not necessarily a copper) got the plate slightly wrong and you're being hunted for tailgating in Balclutha!!

Good advice. The first step is to find out why the enquiry is being made. I'm surprised the letter doesn't state that. It may not be your vehicle at all.

However I'm bound to say my main concern is that an adult, with a family, is completely unaware of the law. :Pokey: And thinks its alright for the family to use a vehicle but not take responsibility??

[Gremlin]

I think you should use this as a test case :yes:

Be honest and tell them you have no idea who was driving at the time :cool:

See what happens :niceone:
The consequences of doing this have already been mentioned. The cops will not be impressed, and will assume you are playing hard ball. To have any chance of staying reasonably close to the good side of the cop, you will need to mention you have asked all those who could have been driving, and no-one has admitted to it, and could you get some details of the driver (or pic if it exists) to assist in identifying the person. Simply saying I don't know will only piss the cop off.


The advice you have been given on here is probably wrong anyway :niceone:
Ur... no... it isn't. :rolleyes:

[Big Dave]

Laws of the land V Laws of nature.

Mums cannot rat on their kids.

[CookMySock]

er, doesnt the request for information have to come WITH an infringement notice of some sort? Doesn't either of those have to be issued with 14 days ?

Steve

[scumdog]

er, doesnt the request for information have to come WITH an infringement notice of some sort? Doesn't either of those have to be issued with 14 days ?

Steve

No it doesn't Einstein, who the hell would they write out the infringement notice to???, Mr 'X'?:rolleyes::wacko:







ps: Nice troll Steve.:clap:

[BiK3RChiK]

However I'm bound to say my main concern is that an adult, with a family, is completely unaware of the law. :Pokey: And thinks its alright for the family to use a vehicle but not take responsibility?? Your assumptions are wrong. Reality is far, far different from the letter of the law. As an example, last week I spent 4 days in Te Kaha with my work vehicle. Left at home was no less than 3 other private vehicles registered in my name that are available to licenced drivers/riders in my family to use because they are family vehicles. There is absolutely no way I would know who was driving any of the vehicles registered in my name from up there and they couldn't ring and ask either, because there is little to no cellphone coverage! And there is no way I am going to take all the keys to the vehicles registered in my name, because that leaves the family stranded with little to no transport. They are family vehicles thatjust happen to be registered in my name because I'm the person who does the paperwork! :brick:


Try find out what they want the name for. If no-one owns up then punish them all in some way, at least restrict their use of the vehicles that are in your name. Keep hold of the keys unless they ask and note who uses it when.

See above...



If you do ultimately get landed with it - that would suck majorly.
You're not wrong! I can assure you I'll have plenty to say about that to ALL the drivers round here! :argue:


If you can get details of where/when the incident took place you should be able to narrow it down to who it was (or wasn't). All very good in principle, but reality is quite different. 3 different people are often at the place described in that vehicle at that time on varying days.... And as an aside, I've never seen a camera anywhere near this street or any other street in town, so I doubt there's a photo.

It's not going to be a matter of me dis-interestedly saying 'I don't know' in a blase manner. Be assured, I have talked to all the drivers about this already. I will be finding out as much as I can to ascertain the alleged situation. I do not take matters like this lightly at all! However, if it transpires that I have taken all steps available to me (aside from wringing all their necks! :spanking: ), and am still unable to work out who was driving the vehicle at the time and place stated, then the answer will indeed be 'I don't know'. It's quite possible, even probable?!, (dare I hope?) that I will indeed discover what/who is involved..................

[CookMySock]

No it doesn't Einstein, who the hell would they write out the infringement notice to???, Mr 'X'?:rolleyes::wacko:

ps: Nice troll Steve.:clap:Not amused, scumdog. Perhaps you take great glee in making people feel small, but if you knew our situation, and how victimised we feel right now, and how we cannot talk to the police because we don't trust them, then you would be speaking completely differently. Don't assume!

Very angry!
Steve

[Ixion]

Could you not simply list out the names of the possible drivers for them and suggest they take it from there?

This surely cannot be an unusual situation? I know of many families where the same arrangments prevail, not to mention flatmates etc. No one (well, no one with a life) is going to keep log books or registers of who uses the family or 'flat' vehicles. One simply grabs the key of whatever's there and goes for it.

[AD345]

Not amused, scumdog. Perhaps you take great glee in making people feel small, but if you knew our situation, and how victimised we feel right now, and how we cannot talk to the police because we don't trust them, then you would be speaking completely differently. Don't assume!

Very angry!
Steve

Angry has 1 !

Very angry has 2

!!

[Squiggles]

So have you requested details (in order to narrow down the offender)?

[AD345]

Your assumptions are wrong. Reality is far, far different from the letter of the law. As an example, last week I spent 4 days in Te Kaha with my work vehicle. Left at home was no less than 3 other private vehicles registered in my name that are available to licenced drivers/riders in my family to use because they are family vehicles. There is absolutely no way I would know who was driving any of the vehicles registered in my name from up there and they couldn't ring and ask either, because there is little to no cellphone coverage! And there is no way I am going to take all the keys to the vehicles registered in my name, because that leaves the family stranded with little to no transport. They are family vehicles thatjust happen to be registered in my name because I'm the person who does the paperwork! :brick:

See above...


You're not wrong! I can assure you I'll have plenty to say about that to ALL the drivers round here! :argue:

All very good in principle, but reality is quite different. 3 different people are often at the place described in that vehicle at that time on varying days.... And as an aside, I've never seen a camera anywhere near this street or any other street in town, so I doubt there's a photo.

It's not going to be a matter of me dis-interestedly saying 'I don't know' in a blase manner. Be assured, I have talked to all the drivers about this already. I will be finding out as much as I can to ascertain the alleged situation. I do not take matters like this lightly at all! However, if it transpires that I have taken all steps available to me (aside from wringing all their necks! :spanking: ), and am still unable to work out who was driving the vehicle at the time and place stated, then the answer will indeed be 'I don't know'. It's quite possible, even probable?!, (dare I hope?) that I will indeed discover what/who is involved..................

Looks like you're pretty much fooked then.

Do I sense a slight change in routine coming up in the Bikerchik household?

[BiK3RChiK]

Could you not simply list out the names of the possible drivers for them and suggest they take it from there?

This surely cannot be an unusual situation? I know of many families where the same arrangments prevail, not to mention flatmates etc. No one (well, no one with a life) is going to keep log books or registers of who uses the family or 'flat' vehicles. One simply grabs the key of whatever's there and goes for it.
Ahhh, a voice of reason amongst the clutter!

I have considered doing this and if it comes to that, I may take that option if nothing else comes to light.

I'm sure that there would be many other households in a similar situation (well, maybe without the request for information part!) with regards to their vehicles. Very soon, I'll have another driver in our household too just to make it even more complictated! At least she'll have an L-Plate in the window for a bit........

[Winston001]

There is absolutely no way I would know who was driving any of the vehicles registered in my name from up there and they couldn't ring and ask either, because there is little to no cellphone coverage! And there is no way I am going to take all the keys to the vehicles registered in my name, because that leaves the family stranded with little to no transport....


It's not going to be a matter of me dis-interestedly saying 'I don't know' in a blase manner. Be assured, I have talked to all the drivers about this already. I will be finding out as much as I can to ascertain the alleged situation. I do not take matters like this lightly at all!

Good to hear you aren't taking matters lightly. Just to repeat - you need to find out from the police why the question is being asked. Is there nothing in the letter at all?

If you consider your first few posts, what you were upset about was the right of the police to ask who the driver was - you gave the very strong impression you thought this was completely wrong.

Since then you haven't answered the question of how you'd react if your vehicle had been involved in a hit-and-run on a child?

Over and above all of that, some of us just don't understand your household. If any of my kids had free access to a vehicle, they'd also know the responsibilities which go with that. They would own up to being the driver - even if that meant 3 of them all had been in the same area.

Its a matter of trust and personal responsibility in your household.

If you cannot have that trust then yes, you'll have to remove the keys. Its not possible to have responsibility without consequences.

Or live with it which you are entirely free to do.

[jono035]

Ahhh, a voice of reason amongst the clutter!

I have considered doing this and if it comes to that, I may take that option if nothing else comes to light.

I'm sure that there would be many other households in a similar situation (well, maybe without the request for information part!) with regards to their vehicles. Very soon, I'll have another driver in our household too just to make it even more complictated! At least she'll have an L-Plate in the window for a bit........

When I said keep hold of the keys unless they ask, I was suggesting that as a punishment, not as the status quo. Usage of one of the family cars was always a privilege. If someone abuses this privilege by doing something wrong then punish them. If no-one will own up to it then the only option is to punish them all... Be reasonable, explain this clearly and they will understand (and you will probably find out who it was pretty damn quick).

If they 'need' the vehicle for some particular reason then that is their own fault and maybe they should have thought about that before doing whatever it was they did wrong, then thought again before not owning up to it. Walking/catching the bus for a while or having to buy their own car and pay for their own gas/insurance can be an incredibly powerful motivator...

Naturally all this assumes that it is the type of issue where they are even aware they have done something wrong, as opposed to having a complaint made because someone killjoy of the grumpy and old variety was outraged by the way they rolled through a stop sign at 2km/hr.

[BiK3RChiK]

you need to find out from the police why the question is being asked. Is there nothing in the letter at all?

If you consider your first few posts, what you were upset about was the right of the police to ask who the driver was - you gave the very strong impression you thought this was completely wrong.

Since then you haven't answered the question of how you'd react if your vehicle had been involved in a hit-and-run on a child?

Over and above all of that, some of us just don't understand your household. If any of my kids had free access to a vehicle, they'd also know the responsibilities which go with that.



All it says on the form is reason to believe careless use. Rather a broad statement which in my opinion could be anything from extremely minor to a major incident. Considering the puzzled expressions I've received from the drivers here, I suspect it's on the extremely minor side of things. I will indeed be requesting more information...

I didn't respond to your question about a child being run over because I think that is a ridiculous/outrageous proposition to suggest in this situation. I think there would be a different form of finding the information if that had happened and I think 'reason to believe careless use' would hardly come into it! I would think a visit to the station in a police car would probably more than likely be the start of enquiries in that direction, and my reaction would be akin to the situation! I also believe, knowing my family as I do, that they would front up the very day such a thing were to happen! Indeed, I think I would know by the impact such a thing would have on the drivers in our household, that something terrible had happened the minute I clapped eyes on them, and would discover the details fairly promptly! No such thing has happened, and I find your question repugnant.

Your conclusions you drew from my first posts come from your own assumptions. At no time did I state I was upset that the police were even asking for this information. What I was saying was, that due to the circumstances in our household, I didn't know who was driving the vehicle at the stated time and place 3 weeks earlier. My work/extended family often take me away from home, if not all day, then sometimes days at a time. I often get home from work at 9 or 10 O'Clock at night. It is infeasible I know who is driving what vehicle all the time. When we first offered the vehicles to our children, we sternly instructed them as to the manner they were to be driven and the responsibilities that came along with it. I think that this little episode has re-inforced those responsibilities to ALL the drivers who have access to the vehicles.

[Crisis management]

You live in a small down don't you? Get in the car, drive to the police station and talk about it to the highest ranking officer you can, take notes, thank him for his help and then sort it out.

Best 30 minutes you will spend today.



That's what I would do..YMMV

[Rayray401]

You live in a small down don't you? Get in the car, drive to the police station and talk about it to the highest ranking officer you can, take notes, thank him for his help and then sort it out.

Best 30 minutes you will spend today.



That's what I would do..YMMV

Bring your whole family with you too?

[SixPackBack]

You live in a small down don't you? Get in the car, drive to the police station and talk about it to the highest ranking officer you can, take notes, thank him for his help and then sort it out.

Best 30 minutes you will spend today.



That's what I would do..YMMV

Prepare to get butt shagged..........

[Ixion]

.. Over and above all of that, some of us just don't understand your household. If any of my kids had free access to a vehicle, they'd also know the responsibilities which go with that. They would own up to being the driver - even if that meant 3 of them all had been in the same area.

..

It does not seem hard to understand to me. Very common I would have thought.

There are several cars. The keys hang on a hook or such like. Someone who wants to use a car grabs a key.

As to the 'responsibility' bit, if the alleged offence (whatever it is ) involved a crash or something serious, then yes, one would expect the culprit to know that he or she was the guilty party and own up to it. And I am sure Ms Chik would have the same expectation.

But often these allegations are the result of a complaint from some doddering old fossil who has taken objection to a manoeuvre that said fossil thinks is wrong. Even though it is perfectly legal and safe. Fossil then sends in heavily embroidered complaint "I was overtaken by a drunken driver going 200kph who forced me off the road while driving on the wrong side of the road". The reality being that fossil was fossilling along at 60 in a 100 and was overtaken perfectly legally and safely. But fossil considers it a cardinal sin for anyone to overtake him ever.

The "incident" is a non-incident - so trivial a part of the driving routine that none of us would specifically recall it, or imagine that anyone would take objection to it. I cannot remember every car I have overtaken in the last three weeks. And any one of them could have been driven by fossil. I do not consider any of my overtaking was objectionable. Fossil, being fossil, might think otherwise.

In such a case, all members of the family might well be in the position of saying "well, it *could* have been me driving, but after such a delay I cannot say for sure. And I do not recall any incident that would occasion a complaint".

[Clockwork]

Pontifications on personal responsibility aside, what if bikerchik had been the driver, whatever happened to the right to not incriminate oneself, or does that only apply after you've been arrested?

And if Bikerchik supplied a list of "candidates" would that meet the requirements of this act and would the Police then have the right to demand a confession off any or all of them?

[Tank]

Not amused, scumdog. Perhaps you take great glee in making people feel small, but if you knew our situation, and how victimised we feel right now, and how we cannot talk to the police because we don't trust them, then you would be speaking completely differently. Don't assume!

Very angry!
Steve

You shouldn't feel victimized - someone was doing naughties in your car - You should be just as keen as them to know who it was.

But - the law is the law - I'm guessing if you dont know who it was then it comes down to Bikerchick as the owner to take final responsibility.

As for not trusting the police - Most people never have to say that - in my exp. its only people with something to hide who dont trust them.

Anyway - its easy to get out of this scott free. Heck - there is even a social group especially for it.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/group.php?groupid=55

[Katman]

I assume that the police have been quite specific about the date and time that they want the information for.

Even if the driver at the time is not aware that they did anything wrong, someone knows that it was them in the drivers seat at that time.

[davereid]

Im glad this is happening to you, not me !

I wouldn't have a clue who might be driving one of my clunkers at any particular time. They are used around the property, for odd jobs, getting chook food, milk, whatever.

Everyone knows where the keys are, and they are just third party insured hacks.

Hell, I have been away in the South Is. for a week, I wouldnt know (or care) who had been driving them.

(Although they are all out of gas...)

Just name someone you don't like, let them deal with it.

[BiK3RChiK]

Update of sorts......

I went in and spoke to the Officer whose name was on the form. All he required from me was a list of the names of those who drive the vehicle. He would chase them all up from there...

On another note, the alleged incident involves one of the drivers 'nudging the bumper' of another car as they pulled out of a parallel park. No one was in the other vehicle at the time.....

[Max Preload]

So now we have to do the Police's work for them too? Next they'll be telling us to catch the burglars that robbed our homes... oh wait!

[scumdog]

So now we have to do the Police's work for them too? Next they'll be telling us to catch the burglars that robbed our homes... oh wait!

Well they expect ya to report the burglary so it's only a natural progession...lazy buggers.

[Max Preload]

Well they expect ya to report the burglary so it's only a natural progession...lazy buggers.

I believe people tried that. Now it's only reported so you can get the insurance chit...

[scracha]

On another note, the alleged incident involves one of the drivers 'nudging the bumper' of another car as they pulled out of a parallel park. No one was in the other vehicle at the time.....

Tell em it was your pommy friend Dover who was here on holiday.

[nana_mac]

Update of sorts......

I went in and spoke to the Officer whose name was on the form. All he required from me was a list of the names of those who drive the vehicle. He would chase them all up from there...

On another note, the alleged incident involves one of the drivers 'nudging the bumper' of another car as they pulled out of a parallel park. No one was in the other vehicle at the time.....

Glad you have done that and it will get sorted, it's not a biggie and as was said before someone saw it and god knows what they told them. If it was a complaint (written) then it may only be a $75 fine. . Some of the comments annoy as don't they have teenagers. Good on you for letting your children drive your cars etc,they get experience that way. Good Luck

Bev