ACC won't cover motorbike accidents in future

[monkeymcbean]

Scenario: The now elected Government cans ACC as it is to expensive and forces people to take out private health insurance. (there has been mutterings in government for this to happen!)

Private Health Insurancers make a stance that Motorbike accidents will not be covered by them as to the high accident rate.

If this ever did happen, would you still ride your bike knowing you would have to foot the bills if you came off and had to pay for medical costs out of your own pocket?

[FJRider]

Scenario: The now elected Government cans ACC as it is to expensive and forces people to take out private health insurance. (there has been mutterings in government for this to happen!)

Private Health Insurancers make a stance that Motorbike accidents will not be covered by them as to the high accident rate.

If this ever did happen, would you still ride your bike knowing you would have to foot the bills if you came off and had to pay for medical costs out of your own pocket?

If they were to do that, or promise to do that ... REelection may not be possible afterwards. ACC bludgers vote too ...

[Owl]

I would keep riding and sort my own insurance.

My reduction in ACC levies from motorcycle registration would help pay for it.:rofl:

[slofox]

If this ever did happen, would you still ride your bike knowing you would have to foot the bills if you came off and had to pay for medical costs out of your own pocket?

Ride? Yes! Pay my own bills? Fuck no! I'd just lie in the gutter and die slowly while all the fat cats drove past in their cages muttering "blardy hoons...leaving their dead bodies on the sidewalk..."

[YellowDog]

Motorcyclists pay their ACC levies, which have been adjusted almost every year so they pay their way. What's the problem?

[NighthawkNZ]

Scenario: The now elected Government cans ACC as it is to expensive and forces people to take out private health insurance. (there has been mutterings in government for this to happen!)

Private Health Insurancers make a stance that Motorbike accidents will not be covered by them as to the high accident rate.

If this ever did happen, would you still ride your bike knowing you would have to foot the bills if you came off and had to pay for medical costs out of your own pocket?

yes my insurance already covers this... so why do I have to pay ACC again... oh to cover all the other fuckwits on two wheels

[monkeymcbean]

Ride? Yes! Pay my own bills? Fuck no! I'd just lie in the gutter and die slowly while all the fat cats drove past in their cages muttering "blardy hoons...leaving their dead bodies on the sidewalk..."

I asked a non-motorcycle friend in the States what happens in his country if someone is injured riding there bike and have no insurance, the hospital is obliged to do something, whether is is knock you on your head and put you out of your misery im not sure!

But private insurance seems rife with dishonesty and worming there way out of covering the insured...a little like ive found with my own private health insurance until i dragged them to the insurance ombudsman where they squealed like little canerys and paid up.

[Mom]

Scenario: The now elected Government cans ACC as it is to expensive and forces people to take out private health insurance. (there has been mutterings in government for this to happen!)

Private Health Insurancers make a stance that Motorbike accidents will not be covered by them as to the high accident rate.

If this ever did happen, would you still ride your bike knowing you would have to foot the bills if you came off and had to pay for medical costs out of your own pocket?

American Combined Insurance (or what ever it is called these days) rocks!

[Grahameeboy]

Scenario: The now elected Government cans ACC as it is to expensive and forces people to take out private health insurance. (there has been mutterings in government for this to happen!)

Private Health Insurancers make a stance that Motorbike accidents will not be covered by them as to the high accident rate.

If this ever did happen, would you still ride your bike knowing you would have to foot the bills if you came off and had to pay for medical costs out of your own pocket?

I don't think that riding a motorbike is a question asked on Health Proposals so why would they change that...at worse they would rate accordingly like they do for people who fly for a hobby which is fair enough because riding a motorbike is more risky.

[monkeymcbean]

yes my insurance already covers this... so why do I have to pay ACC again... oh to cover all the other fuckwits on two wheels

From what ive heard and not sure what insurance policy you have, private insurance in general will let acc pay for this sort of accident as it is a accident, so your off to a public hospital.

But once say the government opts out of ACC and your Private Insurance your only choice, has you by the short and curlies, say as they do with pre existing conditions, and just deems motorcycling like a pre existing condition and not cover you.

[monkeymcbean]

I don't think that riding a motorbike is a question asked on Health Proposals so why would they change that...at worse they would rate accordingly like they do for people who fly for a hobby which is fair enough because riding a motorbike is more risky.

Yep i buy that, just like a smoker would have to pay more for health insurance.

[Ixion]

yes my insurance already covers this... so why do I have to pay ACC again... oh to cover all the other fuckwits on two wheels

No it doesn't

check your policy you will quite certainly find a clause that says something like "In the event of any treatment being needed for an injury for which ACC cover is possible you must get ACC to pay as much as possible and we will only pay any shortfall"

If it were not for the ACC component medical insurance would be *much* more expensive (hard to believe, I know)

[monkeymcbean]

Motorcyclists pay their ACC levies, which have been adjusted almost every year so they pay their way. What's the problem?

The Govt made some mumblings that ACC costs were huge, and some public option were worried that they the Govt were trying to steer the public into taking up private health insurance.

Some might not be able to afford private health or if you could afford it, like a pre existing condition, the private health insurance decides to not cover motorcyclists as the deem it high risk, huge costs to them....phew!

[p.dath]

I would keep riding and sort my own insurance.

My reduction in ACC levies from motorcycle registration would help pay for it.:rofl:

monkeymcbean just said that no insurance company would cover you because of the risk. You can not sort your own private insurance as a result.

So if you have a near fatal accident, you either get your visa card out if the ambulance arrives, or lie there to die.

[NighthawkNZ]

No it doesn't

I am sorry but it does... I have checked... ask and double checked... triple asked...

...it is full accident cover...


if I have an accident tomorrow
at the end of the day I don't care who pays my insurance or acc... I pay for both so they can fight it out... but it will most likely be my insurance not acc

[Ixion]

Yes. it is full accident cover. BUT - the price the insurer must pay (and thus you must pay) is much reduced because ACC will pay the first whack. Your insurer will pick up the tab if ACC won't pay for some reason (very very unlikely). I would be enormously surprised (though I'll leave it to someone in the industry to comment) if there were any personal accident policy in NZ that did not invoke ACC cover as a first call. Go read the policy . i bet you find such a clause.

[NighthawkNZ]

Yes. it is full accident cover. BUT - the price the insurer must pay (and thus you must pay) is much reduced because ACC will pay the first whack. Your insurer will pick up the tab if ACC won't pay for some reason (very very unlikely). I would be enormously surprised (though I'll leave it to someone in the industry to comment) if there were any personal accident policy in NZ that did not invoke ACC cover as a first call. Go read the policy . i bet you find such a clause.

if thats what you want to think what ever...

but no...

[klingon]

Scenario: The now elected Government cans ACC as it is to expensive and forces people to take out private health insurance. (there has been mutterings in government for this to happen!)

Private Health Insurancers make a stance that Motorbike accidents will not be covered by them as to the high accident rate.

If this ever did happen, would you still ride your bike knowing you would have to foot the bills if you came off and had to pay for medical costs out of your own pocket?

So just to recap...

ACC won't pay
Private insurance won't pay.


I would keep riding.

If ACC was cancelled and replaced with private insurance, then we would regain the right to sue (which we lost when we accepted ACC). Therefore I would continue riding, and if I was injured I would sue the person or organisation who was at fault for my injury.

In my riding career of three years, I have been knocked off my bike twice. Once I was hit when I stopped for a stop sign (broken ribs, concussion, bruising). In the case of no ACC I would have sued the driver who hit me.

More recently I was the pillion, and the bike was knocked over by someone flinging his door open into traffic (minor bruising didn't need any medical treatment, therefore no ACC involved). If I had required treatment, and there was no ACC, I would have sued him.

Easy decision for me.

[Ixion]

if thats what you want to think what ever...

but no...

If indeed you have discovered an insurer that insures you without an ACC component (and it would have to be an overseas insurer), then they would be in fairly serious breach of NZ law

The Injury Prevention, Rehabilitation and Compensation Act 2001 states


S123 Entitlements inalienable
(1) All entitlements are absolutely inalienable, whether by way of, or in accordance with, a sale, assignment, charge, execution, bankruptcy, or otherwise.

Cover under the Act is absolutely inalienable. Whether you like it or not, you ARE covered by ACC. And your insurers (not being idiots) WILL be taking advantage of that fact , and assessing premiums accordingly

What you are suggesting is simply legally impossible.

[Molly]

I can't believe how few questions you're asked when buying car / motorbike insurance in NZ. Any move away from ACC and towards compulsory insurance would be good in my book. I'm an old fart, clean-ish licence, and have one of those safe, boring jobs. I'd expect to be paying less than I am now (assuming they did away with the ACC bit).

Also, if I could sue contractors for leaving gravel all over the road then maybe they'd f'kin' clean up after themselves.

[Ixion]

I can't believe how few questions you're asked when buying car / motorbike insurance in NZ. Any move away from ACC and towards compulsory insurance would be good in my book. I'm an old fart, clean-ish licence, and have one of those safe, boring jobs. I'd expect to be paying less than I am now (assuming they did away with the ACC bit).



I bet you wouldn't be paying less. Can you provide ONE example of a Western country with lower rates for personal injury insurance that covers motorcycling than ACC charge

I expect you are a Pom. So, how much did insurance cost you back in Pomgolia - adjusted for inflation etc ?

ACC has its faults , many and manifold. But it is remarkably good value.

[slofox]

The thing to remember about private insurance of any sort, is that the company is there to make a profit. So when it comes to health insurance, the company wants to take in more money than it pays out.
If you have above average health, your premium will put more into the company than you will take out, so in that respect, private health insurance is a bad investment for you.
If you have below average health the opposite case applies - health insurance is worth it for you.
Course the trouble is, it's not always easy to know what is going to happen to your "above average" health as you age...I was always super fit and healthy when younger. Now that the years are accumulating, all the degenerative things are starting to happen; bits fall off, don't work so well, need a bump start etc etc etc. So I could use health insurance now but it's too friggin late because now everything is an "existing condition" and will therefore not be covered. They'll get you every time. To profit from being insured, you need bloody bad luck.
Just in case you're wondering, yes, I do have the bike insured, along with the cage, house, contents, business etc etc etc. But no life or health insurance.

[Owl]

monkeymcbean just said that no insurance company would cover you because of the risk. You can not sort your own private insurance as a result.

So if you have a near fatal accident, you either get your visa card out if the ambulance arrives, or lie there to die.

So he did!:yes:

One option closes, another will open I'm sure. Either way I wouldn't stop riding!

[Molly]

I bet you wouldn't be paying less. Can you provide ONE example of a Western country with lower rates for personal injury insurance that covers motorcycling than ACC charge

I expect you are a Pom. So, how much did insurance cost you back in Pomgolia - adjusted for inflation etc ?

ACC has its faults , many and manifold. But it is remarkably good value.

You may be right but comparisons with overseas are fraught with problems (fluctuating exchange rates, differing salaries and the cost of living). I just feel a 'blanket' payment to ACC lacks sophistication and I don't have any control over it - can't shop around.

I'm certainly not bitching about riding in NZ by the way. It just doesn't get any better.

[NinjaNanna]

Any move away from ACC and towards compulsory insurance would be good in my book. I'm an old fart, clean-ish licence, and have one of those safe, boring jobs. I'd expect to be paying less than I am now (assuming they did away with the ACC bit).

Not if Australia is anything to go by. Registration is bloody cheap here in comparision.

[Molly]

In Oz to you pay the same country-wide or does it vary from state to state? Also, what does it cost?

[Brownstoo]

Fuck yeah I'd keep riding. I have got health/life insurance but I'm not sure what it covers because it's still under my parents...

[Pedrostt500]

I Will keep riding if ACC and private insurance won't cover me, then they have given me back the right to heavily sue if I am not the Cause of the accident.
ACC was set up so that we would not be using the court system to recover the costs of accidents, that is my take on it.

[NinjaNanna]

In Oz to you pay the same country-wide or does it vary from state to state? Also, what does it cost?

Varies state by state: but generally between $400-500 per year

[junkmanjoe]

i have life insurance, and we been with souther cross for a long time.
i better have a read up...
but i will keep rideing.
maybe more carefully..

[chrispy121]

guys you are looking at this all wrong acc was bought in to cover accidents and the right to sue the prick that said sorry mate did not see you disappered

If they cancel acc they will have to let people sue again which will cause all sorts of problems and probably cost them more as the court system is over run at the moment.

Just think motorist pulls out on you causing a small accident you then develop neck injuries then he pays you salary for the rest of his natural life I bet the cagers might look out for bike then!

just ramblings but food for thought:headbang:

[MDR2]

Hmmm Quite alot of speculation and knee jerk reactions going on in this thread.

I work for ACC, as a surgery assesor, my word generally ends up being final, i love helping people but not everyone can be helped, what fucks me off is the mass amounts of money we as new zealanders fork out for Physios and the like without any kind of CAP on it. it also pisses me off the amount of people that get referred to us even though they have private health insurance. they are almost always the rudest people to deal with and surgeons treat their surgeries as URGENT because it's garaunteed money, never a thought about the other poor saps that get bumped back or who aren't a priority because they havn't got the private health insurance to fall back on.

Rest assured if you have an accident and sprain something, ACC will pay for you to get back on your feet again...(as it were) If because of your accident though, your pain won't go away and a surgeon deceides you need cutting open, then we look a little further into the cause of the pain. alot of the time it's found the accident has aggrivated a gradual process condition (degeneration) The amount of people that are not willing to believe they are getting old and that the osteo arthritis was never there before the accident astounds me. And the surgeons must be able to see this before they refer... it never ceases to amaze me... still, keeps me in the job :)

Also if the gubbermint did choose to bin the system. ACC is currently funded in a way that IF it did go all tits up then all the people currently living off it would be sorted for the rest of their (un)natural lives.

One thing working for ACC has brought to the forefront of my mind though is, there is alot of shit that can happen to you that isn't accident related, so private health insurance isn't such a silly idea. Seems strange so many people will insure their vehicles and not give a second thought to their health.

[ducatilover]

ACC didn't do f**k all when I screwed myself over on a bike. I pay my rego. I crashed a bike with rego...where has my money gone? Wouldn't make any difference what they did. If they don't help me now neither will health insurance :nono:

[monkeymcbean]

I bet you wouldn't be paying less. Can you provide ONE example of a Western country with lower rates for personal injury insurance that covers motorcycling than ACC charge

I expect you are a Pom. So, how much did insurance cost you back in Pomgolia - adjusted for inflation etc ?

ACC has its faults , many and manifold. But it is remarkably good value.

I agree, we are very lucky to have ACC which covers everyone, no one misses out, this is why I get very nervouse when i get a whiff of our Government in term making rumbles about the high cost of ACC and mentioning people may need to fork out for there own personal insurance and do away with ACC. Which in my experience are random as to who and what they will insure you for, depending on your history and good take into account your lifestyle sporting choices.

[monkeymcbean]

The thing to remember about private insurance of any sort, is that the company is there to make a profit. So when it comes to health insurance, the company wants to take in more money than it pays out.
If you have above average health, your premium will put more into the company than you will take out, so in that respect, private health insurance is a bad investment for you.
If you have below average health the opposite case applies - health insurance is worth it for you.
Course the trouble is, it's not always easy to know what is going to happen to your "above average" health as you age...I was always super fit and healthy when younger. Now that the years are accumulating, all the degenerative things are starting to happen; bits fall off, don't work so well, need a bump start etc etc etc. So I could use health insurance now but it's too friggin late because now everything is an "existing condition" and will therefore not be covered. They'll get you every time. To profit from being insured, you need bloody bad luck.
Just in case you're wondering, yes, I do have the bike insured, along with the cage, house, contents, business etc etc etc. But no life or health insurance.

I reckon you need to look at it as though if you put that money aside that you would of paid into health insurance by the time you need a body part like ...hip joint you would have saved enough. If you paid into a health insurance they may pay for you but they will have a real good look into your history to make sure you are not hiding a pre existing condition and this will mean ACC claims which could of caused your now condition. In which case you might find they could decline your claim.
So giving them all that money would be a waste really.
Its a gamble. I personally don't like private health insurance because of what you mention, they will try and get out of paying out. I think ACC is fantastic for everyone.

[monkeymcbean]

I Will keep riding if ACC and private insurance won't cover me, then they have given me back the right to heavily sue if I am not the Cause of the accident.
ACC was set up so that we would not be using the court system to recover the costs of accidents, that is my take on it.

You can only sue if the person has money, or insured, that is if they don't do a runner.

[monkeymcbean]

guys you are looking at this all wrong acc was bought in to cover accidents and the right to sue the prick that said sorry mate did not see you disappered

Just think motorist pulls out on you causing a small accident you then develop neck injuries then he pays you salary for the rest of his natural life I bet the cagers might look out for bike then!

just ramblings but food for thought:headbang:

Yep! nothing like a wounding in the pocket, to keep one alert and attentive.

[scracha]

I expect you are a Pom. So, how much did insurance cost you back in Pomgolia - adjusted for inflation etc ?

When i was a 25 year old lad in upper Pomgolia, for 3 motorycles my 3rd party fire and theft was 185 pomgolian pounds. I think the rego on one was about 30 quid and the other two about 60 quid (bigger bikes). Inflation in the 7 years since has been next to fark all and if you adjusted it for wages as well as inflation it worked out a lot cheaper.

The cops were less anal, the speed-limits higher and the roads better too. Shame the place is so over-populated, house prices are mental and the cost of gogo juice is ridiculous.

[monkeymcbean]

Hmmm Quite alot of speculation and knee jerk reactions going on in this thread.

I work for ACC, as a surgery assesor, my word generally ends up being final, i love helping people but not everyone can be helped, what fucks me off is the mass amounts of money we as new zealanders fork out for Physios and the like without any kind of CAP on it. it also pisses me off the amount of people that get referred to us even though they have private health insurance. they are almost always the rudest people to deal with and surgeons treat their surgeries as URGENT because it's garaunteed money, never a thought about the other poor saps that get bumped back or who aren't a priority because they havn't got the private health insurance to fall back on.

Rest assured if you have an accident and sprain something, ACC will pay for you to get back on your feet again...(as it were) If because of your accident though, your pain won't go away and a surgeon deceides you need cutting open, then we look a little further into the cause of the pain. alot of the time it's found the accident has aggrivated a gradual process condition (degeneration) The amount of people that are not willing to believe they are getting old and that the osteo arthritis was never there before the accident astounds me. And the surgeons must be able to see this before they refer... it never ceases to amaze me... still, keeps me in the job :)

Also if the gubbermint did choose to bin the system. ACC is currently funded in a way that IF it did go all tits up then all the people currently living off it would be sorted for the rest of their (un)natural lives.

One thing working for ACC has brought to the forefront of my mind though is, there is alot of shit that can happen to you that isn't accident related, so private health insurance isn't such a silly idea. Seems strange so many people will insure their vehicles and not give a second thought to their health.

Interesting, I have health insurance and it was a battle to have them pay for a operation which i fairly thought they should even though i had not made a claim at all after being with them for 15 years. They don't have to, but i feel pre exisiting condition is such a 'have' as most people will have a pre existing condition when signing up to health insurance whether they know it or not. If to be fair to all, a total health check, bone check, heart check, family history check should be done on all before they sign up, if they are going to get picky.
So i think ACC is very fair in comparision, and good value. Though it is interesting your view on the cue jumping for surgery.

[Xaria]

We just signed up for health insurance through work and all pre existing conditions were covered.

Four different levels of cover and if we wanted to upgrade or add kids, we could pay the difference ourselves.

[Brett]

Would the removal of ACC cover not also open the floodgates of people sueing others for injury related damages? At the moment the whole point of ACC is that one can't sue (or so is my understanding).
If ACC where to cease and motorcycling was to not be covered by my private health insurance, I would stop I think. Unless by that time I have managed to build my own private hospital in which case I would not really care.
I am a staunch National supporter but if they did this and did not have another scheme to cover citizens then they will have lost my vote big time. Then it will have to be Rodney.

[Brett]

guys you are looking at this all wrong acc was bought in to cover accidents and the right to sue the prick that said sorry mate did not see you disappered

If they cancel acc they will have to let people sue again which will cause all sorts of problems and probably cost them more as the court system is over run at the moment.

Just think motorist pulls out on you causing a small accident you then develop neck injuries then he pays you salary for the rest of his natural life I bet the cagers might look out for bike then!

just ramblings but food for thought:headbang:

And suddenly everyone will need public liability insurance.

[NinjaNanna]

Yep! nothing like a wounding in the pocket, to keep one alert and attentive.

bullshit, it won't make a difference. An accident is always that an accident? do you really think people ride/drive around thinking, "fuck it - acc will cover them"

and beside no competent government could scrap ACC without introducing privatised compulsary third party insurance at the same time. And if at the same time they re-introduced the right to sue then your rego costs are only going one direction and no prizes for guessing which direction.

the prinicple of ACC is solid and sound, maybe some fine tuning could be done - but at the end of the day its just another reason that I prefer to live here rather than Australia.

Most NZ'rs really have no clue how good we've got it.

[duckonin]

Scenario: The now elected Government cans ACC as it is to expensive and forces people to take out private health insurance. (there has been mutterings in government for this to happen!)

Private Health Insurancers make a stance that Motorbike accidents will not be covered by them as to the high accident rate.

If this ever did happen, would you still ride your bike knowing you would have to foot the bills if you came off and had to pay for medical costs out of your own pocket?

If that was the case then it would give motocyclists the right to Sue if the accident was caused by another, the very thing ACC was set up against..

Yes I would still ride my bike,as life is to short not to enjoy, to get blood out of a stone is very hard indeed..:niceone:

[jono035]

I think ACC is given a bad rap for all the good they do. It isn't perfect, but throwing it away and suggesting that private companies can do it better, well that is a road to madness.

At least, it hasn't worked for most of the other privatised industries, anyway...

[mossy1200]

Remeber 3 out of four broken bikers did so on a motorcross bike.There is more unregistered x bikes than road bikes and they pay no acc levy.
this means road bike cover their falls because when you fill out acc forms and nature of accident is motorcycle it goes on road bikes registration costs.
This is a variation to user pays called road rider pays.

[Usarka]

If it's been said already lick my arse :bleh:

Currently health insurance does NOT cover accidents.

And the (cheaper?) plans DONT pay 80% of your wages while you recover.

It'll cost a bomb, bro.

[monkeymcbean]

Remeber 3 out of four broken bikers did so on a motorcross bike.There is more unregistered x bikes than road bikes and they pay no acc levy.
this means road bike cover their falls because when you fill out acc forms and nature of accident is motorcycle it goes on road bikes registration costs.
This is a variation to user pays called road rider pays.

Well this is interesting, ive always wondered this, as i thought motor cross bikes paid some levies in any event they entered which covered ACC. But yes, not for general day riding, how annoying, and so statistics for road bike accidents must be so mis construde is this is the case.

[jono035]

I wonder if that skews the motorcycle injury/fatality statistics as well...

[monkeymcbean]

If it's been said already lick my arse :bleh:

Currently health insurance does NOT cover accidents.

And the (cheaper?) plans DONT pay 80% of your wages while you recover.

It'll cost a bomb, bro.

Yep, so the general consensis is we all think ACC is great, and we will personally kick any elected governments arse out the door if they so mention the fact they will 'can' ACC, or that everyone will have to buy into private health insurance.

[monkeymcbean]

I wonder if that skews the motorcycle injury/fatality statistics as well...

Injury im sure

[hayd3n]

Remeber 3 out of four broken bikers did so on a motorcross bike.There is more unregistered x bikes than road bikes and they pay no acc levy.
this means road bike cover their falls because when you fill out acc forms and nature of accident is motorcycle it goes on road bikes registration costs.
This is a variation to user pays called road rider pays.

so we need to get the dirtys to pay there way in regos

[NinjaNanna]

so we need to get the dirtys to pay there way in regos

In a round about way they do - they don't ride their bike there - so its either trailered, on the back of a ute or in a van. All registered vehicles paying acc.

[jono035]

In a round about way they do - they don't ride their bike there - so its either trailered, on the back of a ute or in a van. All registered vehicles paying acc.

Any vehicle they have, chances are they use for other things which makes that point irrelevant. The rego on a trailer isn't enough to cover trail-biking. Neither of these in any way pay for their biking.

They don't, however, have to pay any more, just the way that you don't have to pay extra for cover while playing rugby or skydiving.

I have no problem with any of this, I just wish they would separate out the injuries so that they aren't increasing the cost for road-bikers alone.

[Starky307]

To al the ACC bashers out there.

Be very careful what you wish for, it may not be perfect but it is a very good system for the country as a whole. The hidden costs of not having a system like ACC are huge, all sorts of floodgates open.
What ever you think you will save in private insurance it will cost you in personal liability insurance etc etc.

I was snow boarding in Canada and at the end of the day found a guy sitting in a wheel chair with a broken leg strapped up in a cardboard splint (It wasn't a bad break). I asked why he was there, his reply was that he couldn't afford the ambulance ride to hospital so was waiting for his friends to realize he was no long on the mountain so they would come looking for him and drive him down the mountain.

I spoke to a girl my friend new later on that week as she had a broken arm (from slipping on ice on the sidewalk) and asked her how she got on.
It cost her close to $3500 to have her arm x-rayed, set and then plastered. This money had to paid up front before anything would be done (as it was not a life threatening injury) and then she had to claim from her insurance company down the track.

Lets not be to hasty to want for a system like this.

[jono035]

To al the ACC bashers out there.

Be very careful what you wish for, it may not be perfect but it is a very good system for the country as a whole. The hidden costs of not having a system like ACC are huge, all sorts of floodgates open.
What ever you think you will save in private insurance it will cost you in personal liability insurance etc etc.

I was snow boarding in Canada and at the end of the day found a guy sitting in a wheel chair with a broken leg strapped up in a cardboard splint (It wasn't a bad break). I asked why he was there, his reply was that he couldn't afford the ambulance ride to hospital so was waiting for his friends to realize he was no long on the mountain so they would come looking for him and drive him down the mountain.

I spoke to a girl my friend new later on that week as she had a broken arm (from slipping on ice on the sidewalk) and asked her how she got on.
It cost her close to $3500 to have her arm x-rayed, set and then plastered. This money had to paid up front before anything would be done (as it was not a life threatening injury) and then she had to claim from her insurance company down the track.

Lets not be to hasty to want for a system like this.

So very true.

[Starky307]

One more thing to add. To the people who think they will never have an accident and it will always be some else's fault who will cause it. Pull you head out of your arse and wake up to the real world.

[Pedrostt500]

Me thinks that we need a bike rally to parliament, but lets not just get hot headed and go off half arsed, lets do a bit of research of our own, ie how many bike accidents each year are fatals, No of serious injury, No of minor injury, on road accidents, off road accidents, No of biker at fault, No of other party at fault, etc
We also need to win the hearts and minds of the public, show them bikers come from all walks of life, and arn't all hell bent speed Demons, out to run over old ladies and eat small children, well ok sacrifice one small cute fury animal to the Gods of Speed, Horse Power and Noise.

[Horney1]

All insurance does is give phenomenal amounts of money to lawyers, insurance investigators & doctors and remove good doctors from actually treating patient because they have the option of quietly sitting at a computer to write a report for an insurance cmpany which will pay them much more per hour than any patient consultion would! (All premiums pay for these things)
.

Insurance now prevents us from doing so much in this world because "it's too risky". i.e. because they've been forced to pay up in the past they don't want to loose money in the same way in future. The loosers are you and I, we are the ones prevented from having a life and various social and competitve meetings or having events severely "tamed down/ modified" because a society for example has problems getting insurance for an event. I think theoreticaly insurance was once a reasonable idea but its just got way out of control (controlling every corner of our life).

Considering how little else I get for my taxes and how much I ALSO have to pay in insurance levies, ACC is the least the government should provide for me.

But sure, if neither existed I'll continue to take my heath as my own responsibility and I'd ride without insurance (& I'd ride fairly hard). Insurance whether it's ACC or private does not stop the pain and limitations imposed by an accident. ONE MUST LOOK OUT FOR ONES' OWN SELF by avoiding accidents. Sure they can still happen and thats why we need public health systems (take the costs out of the obstetrician costs, unemployment costs, child care costs etc etc that I have never had to use or those roading costs that haven't been spent leaving potholes that have wrecked my vehicles). Responsibilities and liabilities can be argued for years but injuries usually need immediate attention, that's what public health is good at.

Insurance -the root of all evil.

[jono035]

All insurance does is give phenomenal amounts of money to lawyers, insurance investigators & doctors and remove good doctors from actually treating patient because they have the option of quietly sitting at a computer to write a report for an insurance cmpany which will pay them much more per hour than any patient consultion would! (All premiums pay for these things)
.

Insurance now prevents us from doing so much in this world because "it's too risky". i.e. because they've been forced to pay up in the past they don't want to loose money in the same way in future. The loosers are you and I, we are the ones prevented from having a life and various social and competitve meetings or having events severely "tamed down/ modified" because a society for example has problems getting insurance for an event. I think theoreticaly insurance was once a reasonable idea but its just got way out of control (controlling every corner of our life).

Considering how little else I get for my taxes and how much I ALSO have to pay in insurance levies, ACC is the least the government should provide for me.

But sure, if neither existed I'll continue to take my heath as my own responsibility and I'd ride without insurance (& I'd ride fairly hard). Insurance whether it's ACC or private does not stop the pain and limitations imposed by an accident. ONE MUST LOOK OUT FOR ONES' OWN SELF by avoiding accidents. Sure they can still happen and thats why we need public health systems (take the costs out of the obstetrician costs, unemployment costs, child care costs etc etc that I have never had to use or those roading costs that haven't been spent leaving potholes that have wrecked my vehicles). Responsibilities and liabilities can be argued for years but injuries usually need immediate attention, that's what public health is good at.

Insurance -the root of all evil.

Easy there big fella. I agree that both insurance money and tax money should have a much higher focus on being spent efficiently, but to say you get little for your taxes and that insurance is the root of all evil is possibly a little bit exaggerated.

Insurance definitely comes at a cost, there is overhead involved in all industries but to call it worthless and worse is a bit strange. All it does is even out the costs involved in day to day life. Sure you could have it on a individual-pays basis, but that means that anyone unlucky enough to get into an accident gets screwed, effectively at the expense of those who gain by not having insurance and being lucky.

If you assume that accidents are just that, things that are accidental and can't be avoided then your ideas work to disparately affect the people on either side of the situation.

In my opinion, having no system is the worst, having privatised health insurance is a second best but having free-for-everyone taxpayer funded healthcare is best for all involved.

Countries that are by and large healthier are happier and more productive.

[Usarka]

Yep, so the general consensis is we all think ACC is great, and we will personally kick any elected governments arse out the door if they so mention the fact they will 'can' ACC, or that everyone will have to buy into private health insurance.

Sarcasm? If so it's extremely well done.

[Ixion]

In a round about way they do - they don't ride their bike there - so its either trailered, on the back of a ute or in a van. All registered vehicles paying acc.

Nope. Trailers don't have an ACC levy component in licence fee. And the ACC levy for other vehicles only covers costs attributable to those vehicles. ie an accident riding a motorcycle does NOT come out of the car fund - it comes out of the motorcycle fund (cos the accident was on a motorcycle , duh). Paid for by levies on road bikes. If you loaded your trail bike on the back of your road bike, you might have an argument. Not many people do that.

ACC claim they separate out the off road accidents and counter debit the general fund. have have never been able to show us any process they have for this. We reckon it's bollocks. This is one of the pon going complaints BRONZ has with ACC.

[mossy1200]

Well this is interesting, ive always wondered this, as i thought motor cross bikes paid some levies in any event they entered which covered ACC. But yes, not for general day riding, how annoying, and so statistics for road bike accidents must be so mis construde is this is the case.
True but the acc content of bike rego is double the amount contained in car rego.Trailer rego has no acc content and those who have cars already and own regoed bikes pay on both.Also those with two bikes pay twice but cant ride both at same time.
Fairer system for rego is to pay for registered drivers licence.One person one amount.People go on about this being unfair as one car may have several drivers.Surely several drivers should pay several registered licences.Bit off topic sorry.
:Oi:

[MDR2]

Remeber 3 out of four broken bikers did so on a motorcross bike.There is more unregistered x bikes than road bikes and they pay no acc levy.
this means road bike cover their falls because when you fill out acc forms and nature of accident is motorcycle it goes on road bikes registration costs.
This is a variation to user pays called road rider pays.

They pay for SOME of the cost at the pumps when they fill the bikes up...

when i say some... i mean about | | this much

[MDR2]

ACC claim they separate out the off road accidents and counter debit the general fund. have have never been able to show us any process they have for this. We reckon it's bollocks. This is one of the pon going complaints BRONZ has with ACC.

Yeah i'd like to call bullshit on that one too. Im pretty sure there is a part of the ACC45 form that asks 'Did this happen on a public road - YES/NO'

But I doubt they go through with a fine tooth comb, i'm pretty sure it Car or Bike.

It makes more sense from a corporations (trying to make money) perspective to lump road and off road into one pool because it adds weight to the stats when it come time to crank up fees.

I'll do some poking around at work sometime if I can and find out for sure.

[monkeymcbean]

Yeah i'd like to call bullshit on that one too. Im pretty sure there is a part of the ACC45 form that asks 'Did this happen on a public road - YES/NO'

But I doubt they go through with a fine tooth comb, i'm pretty sure it Car or Bike.


It makes more sense from a corporations (trying to make money) perspective to lump road and off road into one pool because it adds weight to the stats when it come time to crank up fees.

I'll do some poking around at work sometime if I can and find out for sure.

Hmmmm dectective work, whats needed by a insider....do it do it, it will be interesting to see what you find out if you can.