Gear changes, what am I doing wrong...

[GOONR]

Hey, I'm after some advice.

When I change down gears I seem to lurch and just can't seem to get it smooth. Going up through the gears is no problem.

Is it just that I'm not smooth enough on the clutch, my revs aren't right or what?

I know that with practice it will come right, but I just don't seem to be able to get it right at the mo. I've ridden bikes in the past but that was a long time ago and something is definitely missing right now so I need to start at the beginning again.

Cheers!

[Ixion]

Are you blippin ? An inline 250 four, you'll need to change down well up in the rev band. Maybe (if you were used to Briddish iron) you are leaving the change too late ? Imagine y'r Ago coming down the Mountain into Creg Ny Baa.

[GOONR]

Are you blippin ? An inline 250 four, you'll need to change down well up in the rev band. Maybe (if you were used to Briddish iron) you are leaving the change too late ? Imagine y'r Ago coming down the Mountain into Creg Ny Baa.Not blippin, will try that.. You could be right and I may well be leaving it too late, letting the revs drop.

I guess it's a combination of things and it will all just "click" one day, but if I can't work out what I'm doing wrong I can't put it right.

I'll let ya know how I get on after my next ride.

Ta.

[p.dath]

What sort of bike have you got, and what are the revs at when you change down (say from 4th to 3rd)?

Does it feel like the bike is suddenly braking, or lurching forward with power?

If it feels like it is braking, then slow the bike down more before changing down.
If it is lurching forward perhaps try less throttle.

[OutForADuck]

so if you're not blipping then maybe a piece of information is missing.

To get smooth and safe down changes you need to synch the engine speed with the road speed in the new lower gear. You could do this by revving the engine more as you let out the clutch and try to get it "just right", but you probably never will and never will at speed.

Instead you should try getting the engine mechanical drag (engine breaking) to work for you on smooth shifts. You do this by, with the clutch pulled in, revving the engine higher than it will need to be and then letting the clutch out as it slow down. The revs will easily and quickly come down to match the road speed (as slowing down is what it is doing quickly right then anyway).

So put it all together with:


Pull in clutch and close throttle
change down and blip throttle (open and close again to get the revs up - you will no doubt of heard other riders doing just this)
let out the clutch and open the throttle again (or not if you are still slowing down as opposed to just getting into a better gear for the corner).


When teaching people I have often told them to practice this often by driving along as a given speed where either gear would work and then change up and down and up and down, all the time maintaining the same speed. This is a really important riding skill, put some time into learning it and it will serve you well.

[Sparky Bills]

I think your thinking too much about it.
Just ride smoothly mate. Everything will fall into place eventually.
Just ride the bike :headbang:

[NZsarge]

I think your thinking too much about it.
Just ride smoothly mate. Everything will fall into place eventually.
Just ride the bike :headbang:

+1, if you go down the road of blipping the throttle you need to get your timing right or it just makes a hash of it but once you get the hang of it it's pretty easy, I usually blip on the downshift unless I just can't be arsed..

[psycho22]

I found that I had this problem when I first started too and I figured out that I was blipping when the clutch was almost completely out, hence some lurching.

I was also blipping fairly aggressively and the revs rose above where they needed to be which also will make you lurch somewhat.

Took me a couple of days to blipp a bit earlier but now it's second nature.

Maybe just have a quick check of where your clutch is in relation to when you should blipp and try blipping if your not, it makes things much smoother.

[The Pastor]

yeah you have to match the revs of the lower gear.

You notice when change down, at any given speed, your revs are higher?

ex 100kph in 6th gear = 10 000rpm, and 100kph in 5th gear = 10 500 rpm?

To be smooth you have to be at 10 500 rpm when you let the clutch out. This is done by applying a small ammount of throttle as you down change.

Short sharp twist is all it takes. takes a bit of practice to learn, but its easy as - and it sounds way cool

[GOONR]

I think your thinking too much about it.

Haha, my missus often says to me "Well, you didn't under think it did you"

[Sparky Bills]

yeah you have to match the revs of the lower gear.

You notice when change down, at any given speed, your revs are higher?

ex 100kph in 6th gear = 10 000rpm, and 100kph in 5th gear = 10 500 rpm?

To be smooth you have to be at 10 500 rpm when you let the clutch out. This is done by applying a small ammount of throttle as you down change.

Short sharp twist is all it takes. takes a bit of practice to learn, but its easy as - and it sounds way cool


Dude, why would you be looking down at what revs your doing when changing down??? :blank:
Dont do any of that as you will end up concentrating on that rather than what is happening around you.
Feel what the bike is doing. Listen to what the bike is doing. DONT look down and keep your eyes up! :niceone:
As said... Just ride the thing mate.

[Squiggles]

Second to first can sometimes be a bit more ruthless than the rest of them

[The Pastor]

Dude, why would you be looking down at what revs your doing when changing down??? :blank:
Dont do any of that as you will end up concentrating on that rather than what is happening around you.
Feel what the bike is doing. Listen to what the bike is doing. DONT look down and keep your eyes up! :niceone:
As said... Just ride the thing mate.
well no of cource you never need to look at your instraments, i was giving numbers to explain.

and when your learning this you dont need to be at the limit of your riding ability so you have plenty of time to notice everything.

[YellowDog]

Haha, my missus often says to me "Well, you didn't under think it did you"
It sounds like you already have this sorted in your mind.

Just change down a little sooner than you are doing so that it is not hurried and you cn then blip the engine speed up closer to the bike's speed.

Changing gear is great fun in the wet when the rear end momentarily slides whilst catching up with the bike :)

[imne1]

also check your chain tension. If it's too loose then engine braking and changing down are going to be messy and feel sloppy, it's quite an unnerving experience.

[Brownstoo]

Yeah as said before, with il4s you need to keep the throttle on, and change down before the revs get too low.
Also a loose chain makes everything jerky so check that too.

[CookMySock]

You can either :

Do big blips and change down keeping the revs way up.

Let the revs drop right back to around 3,000rpm ish or even lower, and just clutch and change down and release the clutch.

Throttle off from power back to just above coasting, so you have a microscopic amount of power on, and very quickly clutch, change down, and release the clutch, concentrating on not moving the throttle. If the engine revs too high, either change through and release the clutch quicker or use slightly less throttle. This takes a bit of getting right, but when you do it sounds super-fluid.

Low revs and little blips are hardest. Medium to higher revs and no blips (idling engine) are going to be rough, and might lock a tyre on a large vtwin in the wet.

Steve

[Drew]

Coming up to a sharp turn, bang it back from top to second gear. Drop the clutch violently as you "stab" the back brake for a second. That'll set you up a bit sideways, to control this, use the FRONT brake, if it aint stepped out enough, get on the front brake a bit more. Too much stepout, let the brake go and hope ya haven't cocked it up.

Hope this helps.

And now for something, completely different...
Smooth comes when you are riding without conscious thought methinks, ironically though, it's an oxy moron to say, "stop thinking about it so much", since that is just one more thing you think about.

[Aaron_newrider]

I have the same problem as you mate - usually from 3rd to 2nd and 2nd to 1st. Thanks for asking i'll try what the guys have said also :)

[GOONR]

I have the same problem as you mate - usually from 3rd to 2nd and 2nd to 1st. Thanks for asking i'll try what the guys have said also :)

Nice to know I'm not the only one.:confused:

[zxr400#150]

your not just dumping the clutch on the down shift are you?

[CookMySock]

I have the same problem as you mate - usually from 3rd to 2nd and 2nd to 1st. You shouldn't really do this on any bike. It's pretty hard on it, and un-necessary. Blap it down from from 6 to 5 to 4, and maybe to 3rd if you must, but blapping it down all the way to first will eventually stuff something.

If you are going all the way to first gear and stopping (or near stopping) then just pull the clutch in and click-click-click it down while doing walking speed, or better still skip first and tap it into neutral from 2nd.

Steve

[Aaron_newrider]

Nice to know I'm not the only one.:confused:

Sweet as man - you're close to me (10-min ride ish) when I get my bike we should meet up for some learner fangs around the shore!

[sinfull]

Ride down to my place tommorrow and when ya get here i'll send ya home again ! Pretty sure the problem will be solved by the time ya get there !

[Drew]

You shouldn't really do this on any bike. It's pretty hard on it, and un-necessary. Blap it down from from 6 to 5 to 4, and maybe to 3rd if you must, but blapping it down all the way to first will eventually stuff something.

If you are going all the way to first gear and stopping (or near stopping) then just pull the clutch in and click-click-click it down while doing walking speed, or better still skip first and tap it into neutral from 2nd.

Steve

What? That's something you just thought up yeah?

Total dribble in my opinion, and I've opened more than my fair share of bike engines.

I've thrashed every bike I've ever owned, most of them not built for it, and never damaged a gear box by using all the cogs to slow down.

[GOONR]

your not just dumping the clutch on the down shift are you?

Letting it out progressively, not just letting go altogether.

[GOONR]

Ride down to my place tommorrow and when ya get here i'll send ya home again ! Pretty sure the problem will be solved by the time ya get there !

Yup I think your right, problem solved after a journey like that!

[mossy1200]

Yup I think your right, problem solved after a journey like that!
I blip and change then let the clutch out as the blipped revs begin to fall.This seems to catch when the revs match the travel speed so that the they come together smooth and engine braking assists the slowing down.

[Pedrostt500]

Ah come back in 5000 k,s and tell us how youre getting on, the only thing that will help you is exsperience, the only way to get it is to clock up the K's, so just get out there and ride the farking thing. And remember ride your own ride.

[GOONR]

And the winner is..... blippin fantastic, much much smoother.

Cheers ears!

[CookMySock]

And the winner is..... blippin fantastic, much much smoother.Good!


Letting it out progressively, not just letting go altogether.I don't recommend doing this. The gear changes are smoothed out with timing the blip and the clutch release correctly, not by slipping the clutch. Keep practicing your clutchblipchange-dumpclutch until its dead accurate. Just dump the clutch - if the change comes out rough, alter your timing. The clutch is let out gently only for take offs.

Steve

[davebullet]

I'll also add... make sure you have adjusted your clutch properly. Too much slack in the cable (most bikes recommend about 10-20mm freeplay in the clutch lever) and the clutch may not disengage completely. I've found the SV gearbox a bit clunkier with a maladjusted clutch. Take out the slack so it disengages sooner when pulled in and it:
a) makes for less clutch travel when down changing
b) removes the change into first gear clunk and other clunkiness when changing gears

Also make sure your clutch feels smooth. When was the cable last lubed? Might want to take it out and see that the inner cable moves smoothly inside the outer cable.

[GOONR]

Good!

I don't recommend doing this. The gear changes are smoothed out with timing the blip and the clutch release correctly, not by slipping the clutch. Keep practicing your clutchblipchange-dumpclutch until its dead accurate. Just dump the clutch - if the change comes out rough, alter your timing. The clutch is let out gently only for take offs.

Steve

Yeah quite a few of my changes are a still a bit rough but overall MILES better. I feel a lot more in control of what is happening now, that has put a smile on my face instead of a grimace. Guess I just need to iron it all out now. practice practice practice..

[FROSTY]

Couple of thoughts for ya.
1) The clutch might need adjusting,chain might need adjusting/replacing, Bike might need an oil change.--ALL or any of those thingsa makes for shitty downchanges.
You are welcolm to turn up here and I'll look ya bike over for ya and take it for a lil buzz up n down a sidestreet.
2) Its YOU - Upshifts are MUCH easier to achieve more smoothly than downshifts.
TRY THIS--sloooow down. Pull the clutch in -back off throttle---PAUSE
click down on gear shifter--PAUSE -ease clutch out -emphasis on EASE
If making the clear step by step effort suddenly improves the changes then hey practice and it will sort itself.
Im sorry dude as much as blipping might feel good its covering up not sorting the issue.

[GOONR]

Couple of thoughts for ya.
1) The clutch might need adjusting,chain might need adjusting/replacing, Bike might need an oil change.--ALL or any of those thingsa makes for shitty downchanges.
You are welcolm to turn up here and I'll look ya bike over for ya and take it for a lil buzz up n down a sidestreet.
2) Its YOU - Upshifts are MUCH easier to achieve more smoothly than downshifts.
TRY THIS--sloooow down. Pull the clutch in -back off throttle---PAUSE
click down on gear shifter--PAUSE -ease clutch out -emphasis on EASE
If making the clear step by step effort suddenly improves the changes then hey practice and it will sort itself.
Im sorry dude as much as blipping might feel good its covering up not sorting the issue.

Nice offer Frosty,

I suspect it's option 2. ME. I was intending on joining in on NASS this week but I don't think I'm gonna make it, will try though. Shame, if I'm correct, your offering tea and biscuits.. Oh and a garage. I'm going to keep on practicing in the quiet back streets of Birkdale for a little while, if I can't get it right I will take up your kind offer and pay you a visit.

Cheers.

[FROSTY]

ohh and dude one think for ya -some bikes no matter what ya do the change from neutral into first always clunks.

[GOONR]

Couple of thoughts for ya.
1) The clutch might need adjusting,chain might need adjusting/replacing, Bike might need an oil change.--ALL or any of those thingsa makes for shitty downchanges.
You are welcolm to turn up here and I'll look ya bike over for ya and take it for a lil buzz up n down a sidestreet.
2) Its YOU - Upshifts are MUCH easier to achieve more smoothly than downshifts.
TRY THIS--sloooow down. Pull the clutch in -back off throttle---PAUSE
click down on gear shifter--PAUSE -ease clutch out -emphasis on EASE
If making the clear step by step effort suddenly improves the changes then hey practice and it will sort itself.
Im sorry dude as much as blipping might feel good its covering up not sorting the issue.

Hey Frosty,

I slowed everything down, paused slightly between actions and eased the clutch out nice and even like, hey presto good down changes, no blippin required.:woohoo:

I guess that is how I used to change gears all those years ago, just didn't really think about it then, it just worked. With time I reckon I'll be back at that stage again and it will all just click.:wari:

[CookMySock]

as much as blipping might feel good its covering up not sorting the issue.Nah that just covers an inaccurate change with a clutch slip.

a.) The clutch is not there to smooth out your gearchanges - people who do this eat clutches.

b.) Letting the clutch out smoothly takes concentration, so you better make sure nothing else turns to crap during the release, because your brain won't register it.

Steve

[Drew]

Nah that just covers an inaccurate change with a clutch slip.

a.) The clutch is not there to smooth out your gearchanges - people who do this eat clutches.I have never noticed more clutch wear on a bike, and I ease the clutch out on down shift, and slip it to do wheelies now. As opposed to dumping it on down shift, and not wheelying at all in earlier years of biking.


b.) Letting the clutch out smoothly takes concentration, so you better make sure nothing else turns to crap during the release, because your brain won't register it.

SteveBy that logic, nobody should ever learn to ride, because the learning the mechanics take concentration away from the road.

[FROSTY]

Hey Frosty,

I slowed everything down, paused slightly between actions and eased the clutch out nice and even like, hey presto good down changes, no blippin required.:woohoo:

I guess that is how I used to change gears all those years ago, just didn't really think about it then, it just worked. With time I reckon I'll be back at that stage again and it will all just click.:wari:
YEP-What you will find is that as time goes on your shifts will get faster and stay smooth -PS thatll cost ya a chokkie fish :innocent:

[Drew]

-PS thatll cost ya a chokkie fish :innocent:

There's some fine print aye. Cant trust those bloody Australians at all.

[FROSTY]

There's some fine print aye. Cant trust those bloody Australians at all.
NEVER HAVE I BEEN SO INSULTED IN MY ENTIRE LIFE--AUSTRALIAN--F#$#$##$ AUSTRALIAN --ILL GIVE YOU AUSTRALIAN BOYO #%#@#@@@%@#%#%$#
i MEAN FFS IF YA GONNA GIVE ME SHIT AT LEAST GET IT RIGHT--POMMY CAR SALESMEN --

[GOONR]

YEP-What you will find is that as time goes on your shifts will get faster and stay smooth -PS thatll cost ya a chokkie fish :innocent:

Haha, you don't get anything for free in this world, I'll drop in one day soon to say hi and pass on a fish, maybe even two. Then you will owe me:msn-wink:

Cheers again.