4stroke oil

[Rupe]

What oil are you guys using in your bikes? Looking for a good cheap one, change it regulaly so doesn't need to be top of the range.

Don't want this to turn in to a 2t vs 4t thread it's boring

[telliman]

im on the spectro gold blend,is slightly cheaper thamn motul but am unsure of anything else.

[flyingcr250]

What oil are you guys using in your bikes? Looking for a good cheap one, change it regulaly so doesn't need to be top of the range.

Don't want this to turn in to a 2t vs 4t thread it's boring

if your changing it quite often, my mate used to get his from repco cant remember the brand but it came in a 4L and i think it was about $70

[mowgli]

Using manufacturer's recommended. A tad expensive but it's all the bike has ever known.

[Murray]

Super Cheap Auto's have a Castrol 4 stroke oil which seems fine and super cheap as well

[wickle]

using Fuchs Silkolene from local Suzuki dealer $50/60 for 4litre

[Taz]

Caltex Delo 400 diesel oil. Have used this in all my bikes for years from a YZF250 to a KTM525.

[Taz]

if your changing it quite often, my mate used to get his from repco cant remember the brand but it came in a 4L and i think it was about $70

That's real helpful. So just go in and ask for a 4L that costs $70?? :crazy:

[wickle]

Super Cheap Auto's have a Castrol 4 stroke oil which seems fine and super cheap as well
Supercheap ar't always the cheapest

[LittleJohn]

I use Motul for all my bikes, road and off-road. It's what my local mechanic shop uses so have just stuck with it.

[courts]

I use yamalube 4R 10w-50.good shit about $80 for 4litres, otherwise there is a castrol one from repco similar price -$20 a litre seems pretty standard cant remember 4T racing or something.

[tnarg]

I use Putoline offroad 4stroke oil. Tried thumper oil once and keeped getting false nuetrals so dont try that oil.

[raglanash]

Caltex Delo 400 diesel oil. Have used this in all my bikes for years from a YZF250 to a KTM525. The yanks on thumpertalk swear by this stuff called Shell Rotella 10w40 diesel oil. How much is the Delo for 4 ltrs?

[Taz]

Comes in a 5 litre pack have paid between 30-40 bucks for it depending on who has the special at the time.

[Hemex]

What oil are you guys using in your bikes? Looking for a good cheap one, change it regulaly so doesn't need to be top of the range.

Don't want this to turn in to a 2t vs 4t thread it's boring

Bought some elf 4T oil off Barty that he said you were using too... Is that working out too expensive? How often are you changing your oil Rupe?

[Rupe]

Bought some elf 4T oil off Barty that he said you were using too... Is that working out too expensive? How often are you changing your oil Rupe?

nah not really, just seeing what everyone else was using. Sometimes there is a cheaper alternative eg trans oil - atf.

Changing mine every 5hrs and filter 10hrs, so guess you be good for a year or two

[noobi]

i think most bike shops have a barrel of whatever oil they mostly stock in the workshop, normally a few dollars cheaper to bring in your own container and get it from the workshop instead of buying in 4L bottles.
we use Motul 8100 for the KTM and the gasgas

[Buddy L]

I use Putoline offroad 4stroke oil. Tried thumper oil once and keeped getting false nuetrals so dont try that oil.


Same with me, had elf oil to start with when i brought the bike, changed to thumper oil and started getting false nuetrals jumping gears etc, the oil just seemed to be thicker then the elf oil.
Pulled out all my chutch plates and cleaned them all with CRC breakalean, have now changed Maxima oil, and will try that out.
Nothing worse then hitting false nuetrals and valve bouncing, when powering out of a corner in front of people.

[B0000M]

this is a good topic. i notice in the honda manuals it reccommends using an SG? (from memory) or higher grade. im told by a local automotive parts department by a long serving manager that the further thru the alphabet the better, eg an SL is far superior to a SG oil.

i then looked around, and based on this cannot find an oil anywhere close to being as poor a grade as reccommended.

so on this topic, why shouldnt one use castrol magnatec for example in the correct viscosity range, as the stuff is about half the price of "motorcycle engine oil"

[cheese]

Hmm true, I thought that Magnatec is meant to be one of the best oils for the price around. $30 for 4 litres?

[Rupe]

this is a good topic. i notice in the honda manuals it reccommends using an SG? (from memory) or higher grade. im told by a local automotive parts department by a long serving manager that the further thru the alphabet the better, eg an SL is far superior to a SG oil.

i then looked around, and based on this cannot find an oil anywhere close to being as poor a grade as reccommended.

so on this topic, why shouldnt one use castrol magnatec for example in the correct viscosity range, as the stuff is about half the price of "motorcycle engine oil"

thanks booom, this is the sort of response I was looking for. Why can't we use non motorcycle oil?

[Taz]

so on this topic, why shouldnt one use castrol magnatec for example in the correct viscosity range, as the stuff is about half the price of "motorcycle engine oil"

Because for bikes with wet clutches ther is the possibility that oils with friction modifiers can cause slippage.

[Espresso]

Oil isn't just oil. Found that out years ago, cost me an entire new set of clutch plates on one occassion, after a really disppointing day of burning my clutch out during a race.
Lower grade oil is lower grade from the start, it's not like a cheap oil does as good a job as a higher grade oil initially so changing it more frequently gets around a low grade oil. Yamalube for the Yamaha(s), Elf for the rest and after many years of use, I'm sticking with the good stuff, it's cheaper overall than cheap oil.

[B0000M]

niether of these previous 2 responses are relevant to my question, firstly should clarify that hondas and probably some ther bikes run seperate engine oil to trans oil. so clutch issues are un related. a clutch is neither a 2 or 4 stroke object.

[Espresso]

My response was to the thread topic/starter Rupecopp i.e. use the best oil you can, whatever type/part of the engine it's in, cheapest insurance if you are keeping your bike a while, if not, use cheap stuff and sell it to a stranger before it costs a lot more than few litres of oil. There's usually a good reason why and oil is cheap.

[MotoKuzzi]

I've been using Morris Lubricants Ring Free ( no it's not a wind up ) 15W40. Essentially a good quality mixed fleet CF / SL. C= compression (diesel) S = spark. I first used it my diesel Nissan and it gives me a good 9000km before it starts to use oil and i do a change at 10000, which is 2* the recommended change interval. Been using it in the Guzzi for a couple of years but still do 5000km changes and it looks immaculate in the bore when you have the sump off for a filter change. Guzzi also has separate gearbox. Buy it by the 25l can for about $180. I think freight is free if you purchase 25l or more.

[raglanash]

Heres a link to some info on this rotella stuff, the yanks on thumpertalk swear by it, I wonder what the equivalent oil is here? Delo?
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/rotellaoil14_50.php

[Rupe]

Heres a link to some info on this rotella stuff, the yanks on thumpertalk swear by it, I wonder what the equivalent oil is here? Delo?
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/rotellaoil14_50.php

yeah noticed them banging on about it. would be good to know the equvilant aye???

[Robert Taylor]

What oil are you guys using in your bikes? Looking for a good cheap one, change it regulaly so doesn't need to be top of the range.

Don't want this to turn in to a 2t vs 4t thread it's boring

If your bike is indeed a KX250F it holds about 1 to1.5 litres of oil and that oil is highly stressed. I would absolutely not be preoccupied about price, Id be much more concerned about the best quality oil and changing it often. Especially given that its specific horespower ( sae rear wheel ) is around 140-150 bhp per litre and cooling is marginal.
So often subsequent owners ( and dealers ) foot premature repair bills because the previous owners have taken short cuts on maintenance.

[Robert Taylor]

Supercheap ar't always the cheapest

And like many discount chains many of their staff only know about barcoding, not the product.

[barty5]

Heres a link to some info on this rotella stuff, the yanks on thumpertalk swear by it, I wonder what the equivalent oil is here? Delo?
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/rotellaoil14_50.php

you gota remember yanks are lazy so any oil that says it can be used for multiple uses no matter what it is will sound good to them. they would brush their teeth with it if you put it on the label and it tastes good.

[Robert Taylor]

niether of these previous 2 responses are relevant to my question, firstly should clarify that hondas and probably some ther bikes run seperate engine oil to trans oil. so clutch issues are un related. a clutch is neither a 2 or 4 stroke object.

Clutches are one of the very biggest destroyers of oil especially if the rider is inclined to fan the clutch all the time. If that is happening and duty is shared with the engine then wear accelerates rapidly.

[Rupe]

you gota remember yanks are lazy so any oil that says it can be used for multiple uses no matter what it is will sound good to them. they would brush their teeth with it if you put it on the label and it tastes good.

If you hadn't guessed I've nearly run out of filters and oil so will need some soon. I call you later.

[Robert Taylor]

My response was to the thread topic/starter Rupecopp i.e. use the best oil you can, whatever type/part of the engine it's in, cheapest insurance if you are keeping your bike a while, if not, use cheap stuff and sell it to a stranger before it costs a lot more than few litres of oil. There's usually a good reason why and oil is cheap.

Yes, many dealers have come unstuck because of less than honest owners at trade in time. THAT SUCKS BIG TIME.

[barty5]

If you hadn't guessed I've nearly run out of filters and oil so will need some soon. I call you later.

sweet ive got one filter can get more

[Flip]

Oils cheap, just use a big well known brand I always like Castrol myself because they don't have service stations, and they used to make Castrol R.

[takitimu]

If your bike is indeed a KX250F it holds about 1 to1.5 litres of oil and that oil is highly stressed. I would absolutely not be preoccupied about price, Id be much more concerned about the best quality oil and changing it often. Especially given that its specific horespower ( sae rear wheel ) is around 140-150 bhp per litre and cooling is marginal.
So often subsequent owners ( and dealers ) foot premature repair bills because the previous owners have taken short cuts on maintenance.

What is your preference with regards Synthetic vs non-synthetic, the reason I ask is the latest Castrol Power GPS is rated API SJ & JASO MA2, but is semi synth, it's what I've been using ( 5 hour oil / 10 hour oil + filter ).
But I see there is a guy on tardme doing 20 litres of Elf MOTO 4 HP ECO Semi-Synth for $176.50+freight, mind you it's API SH & JASO MA2.

Put it this way I'll go through around 32l in the next 12 months, at $90 a 4l ( fully synth ) that it is $720 vs $320 ( semi synth Elf ), maybe I'm poor, but $400 is a chunk of change if I can save it, assuming I'm not risking my clutch & bike in the process.

P.S. at 1.5 litres of oil a kx250f would be more like 30bhp per litre, they tap out under 40bhp, to be safe say 50bhp per litre, but still that is way short of 150.

[barty5]

What is your preference with regards Synthetic vs non-synthetic, the reason I ask is the latest Castrol Power GPS is rated API SJ & JASO MA2, but is semi synth, it's what I've been using ( 5 hour oil / 10 hour oil + filter ).
But I see there is a guy on tardme doing 20 litres of Elf MOTO 4 HP ECO Semi-Synth for $176.50+freight, mind you it's API SH & JASO MA2.

Put it this way I'll go through around 32l in the next 12 months, at $90 a 4l ( fully synth ) that it is $720 vs $320 ( semi synth Elf ), maybe I'm poor, but $400 is a chunk of change if I can save it, assuming I'm not risking my clutch & bike in the process.

P.S. at 1.5 litres of oil a kx250f would be more like 30bhp per litre, they tap out under 40bhp, to be safe say 50bhp per litre, but still that is way short of 150.


i use the elf moto4 ill check what $$ it is normally for you in the morning might even be able to do a better deal i run the stuff the same around 5 hours but do filter at the same time as i get them so dam cheap.

[tommorth]

[QUOTE=takitimu;1129315030

P.S. at 1.5 litres of oil a kx250f would be more like 30bhp per litre, they tap out under 40bhp, to be safe say 50bhp per litre, but still that is way short of 150.[/QUOTE]

i suspect he ment per litre of capacity say 35hp x4 =140hp

shit its a lot of oil changes glad I've got a 2t :Pokey:

[Rupe]

i suspect he ment per litre of capacity say 35hp x4 =140hp

shit its a lot of oil changes glad I've got a 2t :Pokey:

2strokes need the trans oil done just as often:Pokey:

[Rupe]

i use the elf moto4 ill check what $$ it is normally for you in the morning might even be able to do a better deal i run the stuff the same around 5 hours but do filter at the same time as i get them so dam cheap.

Thats the stuff you've been givin me isn't it??? The stuff is fully synth and going good.

[Rupe]

If your bike is indeed a KX250F it holds about 1 to1.5 litres of oil and that oil is highly stressed. I would absolutely not be preoccupied about price, Id be much more concerned about the best quality oil and changing it often. Especially given that its specific horespower ( sae rear wheel ) is around 140-150 bhp per litre and cooling is marginal.
So often subsequent owners ( and dealers ) foot premature repair bills because the previous owners have taken short cuts on maintenance.

Been running an Elf synth oil, changing every 5hrs and filter every 10hrs. No problem with it just doing a bit of digging really, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread I keep seeing the yanks banging on about this rotella stuff. Though I might of been in the dark so asked on here, but from the rsponses I'll stick to what I've been using. althou don't know how much differance semi synth and synth make.
Cheers

[barty5]

Been running an Elf synth oil, changing every 5hrs and filter every 10hrs. No problem with it just doing a bit of digging really, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread I keep seeing the yanks banging on about this rotella stuff. Though I might of been in the dark so asked on here, but from the rsponses I'll stick to what I've been using. althou don't know how much differance semi synth and synth make.
Cheers

yes it is the synthtics with stand heat better plus whole heap a other shit

[Starky307]

Elf moto 4t, buy it in bulk from Mr Motorcycles, not sure about cost but what ever it is it's cheap insurance against the price of a rebuild.

[B0000M]

Clutches are one of the very biggest destroyers of oil especially if the rider is inclined to fan the clutch all the time. If that is happening and duty is shared with the engine then wear accelerates rapidly.

yeah i realise clutch fucks oil real fast, but that post was in reference to the previous post saying about friction modificators etc vs clutch plates. this is not an issue for honda "4 stroke oil" which i interpret as 4 stroke engine oil.


and thinking about this topic, it does work out cheaper to run a 2 stroke. i use 750ml's of oil to 30 litres of fuel. for "engine oil" - we will leave a trans out of the equation as it makes no difference if its 2 stroke or 4
for a 4 stoke to use 30 litres of fuel i'd suggest will be running about 7 hours. which sounds like longer than how often you should be changing the 4 stroke engine oil. therefore using about 750mls of oil to every 30 litres of fuel

and then theres the filters on top. plus the actual effort of warming, draining, extra wear of alloy threads, replacing filter, discarding old filter - (see emmissions and all that shit) re-filling / spilling

lol theres a good arguement for the 2 stroke lol

[barty5]

yeah i realise clutch fucks oil real fast, but that post was in reference to the previous post saying about friction modificators etc vs clutch plates. this is not an issue for honda "4 stroke oil" which i interpret as 4 stroke engine oil.


and thinking about this topic, it does work out cheaper to run a 2 stroke. i use 750ml's of oil to 30 litres of fuel. for "engine oil" - we will leave a trans out of the equation as it makes no difference if its 2 stroke or 4
for a 4 stoke to use 30 litres of fuel i'd suggest will be running about 7 hours. which sounds like longer than how often you should be changing the 4 stroke engine oil. therefore using about 750mls of oil to every 30 litres of fuel

and then theres the filters on top. plus the actual effort of warming, draining, extra wear of alloy threads, replacing filter, discarding old filter - (see emmissions and all that shit) re-filling / spilling
lol theres a good arguement for the 2 stroke lol

fuck you waste a lot a time thinkin up reasons not to own a 4stroke anyone would think you where jealous.

[B0000M]

fuck you waste a lot a time thinkin up reasons not to own a 4stroke anyone would think you where jealous.

lol. na, thats why i just sold the only one i had.

it was cheese that got me started on that idea actually, i just did the maths to see for myself.

[green machine]

fuck you waste a lot a time thinkin up reasons not to own a 4stroke anyone would think you where jealous.
Bordering on obsessed.............lol

[Rupe]

yeah i realise clutch fucks oil real fast, but that post was in reference to the previous post saying about friction modificators etc vs clutch plates. this is not an issue for honda "4 stroke oil" which i interpret as 4 stroke engine oil.


and thinking about this topic, it does work out cheaper to run a 2 stroke. i use 750ml's of oil to 30 litres of fuel. for "engine oil" - we will leave a trans out of the equation as it makes no difference if its 2 stroke or 4
for a 4 stoke to use 30 litres of fuel i'd suggest will be running about 7 hours. which sounds like longer than how often you should be changing the 4 stroke engine oil. therefore using about 750mls of oil to every 30 litres of fuel

and then theres the filters on top. plus the actual effort of warming, draining, extra wear of alloy threads, replacing filter, discarding old filter - (see emmissions and all that shit) re-filling / spilling

lol theres a good arguement for the 2 stroke lol

Doesn't really work for my bike as it uses the oil for the clutch aswell. And I would get far more than 7hrs for 30l.

Some people like 4strokes some like 2strokes this thread was not ment to be about comparing them, It's boring. Please keep it on topic and we might get something usefull out of it for a change.

[B0000M]

yea, you're right, im still waiting for a scientific based answer as to why motorcycle oil is "special" when according to the honda manual and the info my semi reliable source has given me- pretty much any engine oil not made in the 1940s is fine - (sg or above), all the oils i could find on the shelf were sl or better from memory.

so far all ive seen is "this brand is better because the packet says its super duper" or "the yanks say this is good so it must be"

would be good to get some facts and figures in here

[telliman]

:2guns::2guns::2guns:

[barty5]

yea, you're right, im still waiting for a scientific based answer as to why motorcycle oil is "special" when according to the honda manual and the info my semi reliable source has given me- pretty much any engine oil not made in the 1940s is fine - (sg or above), all the oils i could find on the shelf were sl or better from memory.

so far all ive seen is "this brand is better because the packet says its super duper" or "the yanks say this is good so it must be"

would be good to get some facts and figures in here


hopefully this may answer your question cut and pated direct form oils web site.



Can I use car engine oil in my motorcycle ?
No, because motorcycle four-stroke engines do not operate under the same conditions as those of cars (higher engine rpm and temperature). The engine lubricant can also be used to lubricate the gearbox and the clutch, which requires a formula with EXTREME-PRESSURE ADDITIVES. On the other hand, passenger vehicle lubricants contain DETERGENT ADDITIVES with a high ash content. In motorcycle engines, these cause deposits to form on the valve train and the piston crowns, which can result in valve burning or piston perforation.

[barty5]

Why choose a synthetic oil ?
Semi-synthetic and synthetic oils are made from non-conventional bases using sophisticated chemical processes which confer special properties to the finished product. First, the high level of viscosity of the base oils used gives the finished lubricant remarkably stable viscosity whatever the temperature. This property is one of its major advantages over mineral oils, made from conventional bases which require a greater number of additives in order to improve viscosity. The stability of lubrication in all temperatures guarantees optimum efficacy in the cold starting phase which is particularly demanding on the engine ? as well as under conditions of extreme heat. Synthetic-based lubricants show greater resistance to oxidation, which gives them longer effective life thus guaranteeing longer engine life. The use of non-conventional bases, finally, permits the elaboration of more fluid lubricants, without being more volatile; resulting in a reduction of oil consumption.
Therefore, choosing a synthetic based oil is the technologically advance choice, for greater efficacy, longevity and controlled oil consumption.

[Rupe]

Why choose a synthetic oil ?
Semi-synthetic and synthetic oils are made from non-conventional bases using sophisticated chemical processes which confer special properties to the finished product. First, the high level of viscosity of the base oils used gives the finished lubricant remarkably stable viscosity whatever the temperature. This property is one of its major advantages over mineral oils, made from conventional bases which require a greater number of additives in order to improve viscosity. The stability of lubrication in all temperatures guarantees optimum efficacy in the cold starting phase which is particularly demanding on the engine ? as well as under conditions of extreme heat. Synthetic-based lubricants show greater resistance to oxidation, which gives them longer effective life thus guaranteeing longer engine life. The use of non-conventional bases, finally, permits the elaboration of more fluid lubricants, without being more volatile; resulting in a reduction of oil consumption.
Therefore, choosing a synthetic based oil is the technologically advance choice, for greater efficacy, longevity and controlled oil consumption.

ok, think you've cleared all that up. Thank you!

[Robert Taylor]

What is your preference with regards Synthetic vs non-synthetic, the reason I ask is the latest Castrol Power GPS is rated API SJ & JASO MA2, but is semi synth, it's what I've been using ( 5 hour oil / 10 hour oil + filter ).
But I see there is a guy on tardme doing 20 litres of Elf MOTO 4 HP ECO Semi-Synth for $176.50+freight, mind you it's API SH & JASO MA2.

Put it this way I'll go through around 32l in the next 12 months, at $90 a 4l ( fully synth ) that it is $720 vs $320 ( semi synth Elf ), maybe I'm poor, but $400 is a chunk of change if I can save it, assuming I'm not risking my clutch & bike in the process.

P.S. at 1.5 litres of oil a kx250f would be more like 30bhp per litre, they tap out under 40bhp, to be safe say 50bhp per litre, but still that is way short of 150.

Ive always evidenced great engine life with the topline Motul products. Elf is similiar.

[Robert Taylor]

i suspect he ment per litre of capacity say 35hp x4 =140hp

shit its a lot of oil changes glad I've got a 2t :Pokey:

Yes specific horsepower is most usually expressed per litre engine capacity.

[B0000M]

hopefully this may answer your question cut and pated direct form oils web site.



Can I use car engine oil in my motorcycle ?
No, because motorcycle four-stroke engines do not operate under the same conditions as those of cars (higher engine rpm and temperature). The engine lubricant can also be used to lubricate the gearbox and the clutch, which requires a formula with EXTREME-PRESSURE ADDITIVES. On the other hand, passenger vehicle lubricants contain DETERGENT ADDITIVES with a high ash content. In motorcycle engines, these cause deposits to form on the valve train and the piston crowns, which can result in valve burning or piston perforation.

thats some good fact to the debate

thanks for pating that :Pokey:

[camchain]

I've spent a heap of time trying to learn more about oil, it's a huge & interesting subject. But it seemed the deeper I dug (especially into tech articles) the more complex it all looked. Definitive answers are hard get. Even the 'standards' (jaso etc) were a bit of a minefield. Manufacturers appear to wriggle around within them and 'interpret' things differently. eg a big court case not long ago about even what qualifies as a synthetic oil.

It certainly does seem (some) motorcycle labelled oils are significantly different, and this can be measured by bods independantly testing/analysing the oil. But there can be a lot of variation of quantities in additive recipe between comparable product types between the brands - plus some significant quality variations even within some brands. Eg the 'good' quality brand X can test better than the 'good' quality brand Y, but conversely, 'best' quality brand Y can test better than 'best' quality brand X. Overall I reckon there's a lot of marketing hype in this game.

As I understand it, the extreme pressure additives (eg *zinc, phosphorus) are being greatly reduced in car oils as they bugger up modern catalytic converters. These additives come into play where oil film is getting pummelled and you're getting metal to metal contact. These sorts of conditions must occur a lot more frequently than we'd like to think, especially in a stressed out single cylinder dirt bike because these engines do wear out fast.

Apparently it's a common misconception that synthetic oils are somehow more 'slippery' than conventional oil. My current thinking is a good quality dino oil should (theoretically at least) do the job just as well as synthetic if changed regularly and in engine not being too stressed. I'd much rather have clean dinosaur plankton juice than dirty synthetic in an engine. Synthetic seems to be more stable under a wider/harder range of conditions but it's main advantage looks to be is it's ability to retain it's viscosity for a longer time. I'm less inclined to pay top dollar for oil in my (2t oops sorry rupe) gearbox that gets changed very frequently, but on the other hand I wouldn't even consider using non-synthetic for my premix. 2t lube method is just too crude.

Bottom line though, even the most expensive oil is a lot cheaper than parts!

*Edit: Tin was incorrect, it's zinc. Sorry my bad.

[WRFracer]

Bottom line though, even the most expensive oil is a lot cheaper than parts!
posted by camchain.

Thats the answer right there.
Especially with these 4-bangers costing so much to rebuild.
You good oil its not worth the risk, they are high performance engines they need good oil.
Though I would agree with the fact that some oils are overpriced & seem to be playing on there good name.
& people tend to religously swear by this oil when some of the top range cheaper brands are just as good, I'm referring to Motul here.

My opinion is use a good oil but dont be sucked in to using some super duper overpriced stuff.

[charles23]

what do you use Adam? (WRFracer)

[CookMySock]

As I understand it, the extreme pressure additives (eg tin, phosphorus) are being greatly reduced in car oils as they bugger up modern catalytic converters. These additives come into play where oil film is getting pummelled and you're getting metal to metal contact. These sorts of conditions must occur a lot more frequently than we'd like to think, especially in a stressed out single cylinder dirt bike because these engines do wear out fast.My understanding is, you can't use extreme pressure additives in wet-clutch applications, because it promotes clutch-slip, wear, and early clutch failure. This is the main difference between car and bike oils.


Apparently it's a common misconception that synthetic oils are somehow more 'slippery' than conventional oil.LOL. I do not think so. It is easy to con people into buying an oil product on the basis of some machine-trickery.

http://www.astm.org/Standards/D4683.htm This is the ASTM High Temperature Viscosity Protection definitive standard.
http://www.astm.org/Standards/D4172.htm This is the ASTM Wear Comparison definitive standard.
http://www.amsoil.com/a/synthetic-motorcycle-oil?zo=504006 And this shit is top of the food chain.


My current thinking is a good quality dino oil should (theoretically at least) do the job just as well as synthetic if changed regularly and in engine not being too stressed. I'd much rather have clean dinosaur plankton juice than dirty synthetic in an engine.You can't really diagnose an engine oil with your eye.


Synthetic seems to be more stable under a wider/harder range of conditions but it's main advantage looks to be is it's ability to retain it's viscosity for a longer time.Yes, and yes. Synthetics don't readily chop down or oxidise at high temperatures.


I'm less inclined to pay top dollar for oil in my (2t oops sorry rupe) gearbox that gets changed very frequently, but on the other hand I wouldn't even consider using non-synthetic for my premix. 2t lube method is just too crude.Well, if you can get away with using a top quality trans lube for longer, then you might as well, since it is not being contaminated with combustion byproducts.

Yes, non-synthetic 2T oils are for consumers who break brush-cutter starter cords and can't start their outboard. Try the latest technology Amsoil 2T, if you can find it, if you can afford it.


Steve

[barty5]

what do you use Adam? (WRFracer)

Funny you should ask that if you look at his web site you would say yamalube.
not saying he dose or dosnt.
but years a i remember the aussie V8s use to be labeled up mobil1 etc etc but the in fact ran on valvoline guess they had there reasons for it.

[tommorth]

wasn't aiming to satart any 2t vs 4t debate it been done to death and is a little pointless

everones response seems to be is what you probably already knew buy the best oil you can and change it regularly there is doesn't seem to be any secret and very cheap alternative .

It would be interesting if someone got some elcheapo oil and some decent synthetic and ran to bikes side by side on dynos doing oil changes and regular tear downs to measure wear etc .But its not likely that we will ever hear truthful and unbiased results of such an experiment.

[B0000M]

wasn't aiming to satart any 2t vs 4t debate it been done to death and is a little pointless

everones response seems to be is what you probably already knew buy the best oil you can and change it regularly there is doesn't seem to be any secret and very cheap alternative .

It would be interesting if someone got some elcheapo oil and some decent synthetic and ran to bikes side by side on dynos doing oil changes and regular tear downs to measure wear etc .But its not likely that we will ever hear truthful and unbiased results of such an experiment.

would be awesome, but never accurate - it would be impossible for 1 person to ride 2 bikes evenly, or for 2 people to ride 2 bikes evenly.. unfortunately.

would really make a good experiment though.

perhaps ask el cheapo oil company for sponsorship..?

[tommorth]

if you ran the bikes on a dyno the loading should be identical

maybe I could get sponsered by warehouse oil lol

[mzer]

What oil are you guys using in your bikes? Looking for a good cheap one, change it regulaly so doesn't need to be top of the range.

Don't want this to turn in to a 2t vs 4t thread it's boring

Firstly: The most important thing is viscosity. Most big four strokes seem to use 10W-40 these days. For those who don't know; W means "Winter" and is a measure of the cold cranking pumping performance of the oil, ie the lower the W number the lower the temperature at which it will flow and the faster it wil get around your engine. It appears that most manufacturers say to use 10W or higher (ie not 5W or 0W) as the the lower W number oils can shear down resulting in a loss of viscosity. Oil shearing is mainly caused by the gearbox cutting up the VI improvers. The "non-W" number, eg 40, is simply a measure of the oil viscosity at 100 degC. This is pretty close to the temperature that engine oil will see in the crankcase. Did you know that an SAE 50 oil has the same viscosity as SAE 90 oil at 100 degC?

Secondly: look for the correct specification: ie API SG, JASO MA etc. Many manufacturers specify API SG as some oils with SH and higher API specs use friction modifiers, which improve car fuel consumption. Its the friction modifiers that can cause grief for wet clutchs. JASO MA has a wet clutch test so look out for this spec.

Thirdly: buy from an oil manufacturer you trust.

Forthly: Synthetics offer some real advantages, but there are synthetics and then there are synthetics, ie buy from a manufacturer you trust.

[B0000M]

i dont know anyone rich enough to buy 2 bikes and enough dyno time just to long term dyno them.............

[WRFracer]

what do you use Adam? (WRFracer)


Funny you should ask that if you look at his web site you would say yamalube.
not saying he dose or dosnt.
but years a i remember the aussie V8s use to be labeled up mobil1 etc etc but the in fact ran on valvoline guess they had there reasons for it.

I do use Yamalube its good shit, but then yes I am biased.
I've never had a Yamaha blow up while using it, but of course it is a Yamaha, once again I'm being biased.

But seriously before that I used to get hooked up with Motul (great oil but costly).
Before that I was buying and using Silkolene, just because thats what my dealer at the time stocked, again a good oil.
But I've always used the top of the line oil that a brand makes.
Such as when I was running a 2-banger if I had run out of Yamalube I would call into the local Servo & pick up some Castrol TTS worked fine, but I would never run standard Castrol 2stroke oil designed for my chainsaw or lawnmower.
Same as I wouldnt put Yamalube's designed for outboard dingy motors engine oil in my YZ450f.

[mzer]

hopefully this may answer your question cut and pated direct form oils web site.
Can I use car engine oil in my motorcycle ?
No, because motorcycle four-stroke engines do not operate under the same conditions as those of cars (higher engine rpm and temperature). The engine lubricant can also be used to lubricate the gearbox and the clutch, which requires a formula with EXTREME-PRESSURE ADDITIVES. On the other hand, passenger vehicle lubricants contain DETERGENT ADDITIVES with a high ash content. In motorcycle engines, these cause deposits to form on the valve train and the piston crowns, which can result in valve burning or piston perforation.

A bit of a correction here:
1. Engine oils do not contain Extreme Pressure (EP) additives - most gearbox oils and all diff oils do contain EP additives
2. Engine oils do contain Anti-Wear additives. These also protect metal surfaces under high loads but have an entirely different chemistry.
3. All engine oils contain detergents, to keep the inside of the engine clean.
4. All engine oils contain dispersants, to heep soot particles that enter the oil dispersed and stop the oil from thickening.
5. Engine oils can have many other additives including: anti-rust, anti-foam, anti-oxidants and Viscosity Index Improvers.
6. The quality of additives, like base oil vary. Buy from a manufacturer you trust.
7. Adding after-market additives can interfer with engine oil additives. Spend the extra money on the engine oil you buy, not after market additives.

[Quasievil]

but years a i remember the aussie V8s use to be labeled up mobil1 etc etc but the in fact ran on valvoline guess they had there reasons for it.

Who told you that horse shit ?

[barty5]

A bit of a correction here:
1. Engine oils do not contain Extreme Pressure (EP) additives - most gearbox oils and all diff oils do contain EP additives
2. Engine oils do contain Anti-Wear additives. These also protect metal surfaces under high loads but have an entirely different chemistry.
3. All engine oils contain detergents, to keep the inside of the engine clean.
4. All engine oils contain dispersants, to heep soot particles that enter the oil dispersed and stop the oil from thickening.
5. Engine oils can have many other additives including: anti-rust, anti-foam, anti-oxidants and Viscosity Index Improvers.
6. The quality of additives, like base oil vary. Buy from a manufacturer you trust.
7. Adding after-market additives can interfer with engine oil additives. Spend the extra money on the engine oil you buy, not after market additives.

Best you contact Elfoils then and let them know this

http://www.elf.co.nz/index.php/contacts/

After all it was cut direct from their web site you would think they know what their doing???

[barty5]

Who told you that horse shit ?

cant remember of hand was years ago back when brocky was racin but he had worked on one of the teams.

[CookMySock]

After all it was cut direct from their web site you would think they know what their doing???Cough, c'mon, the web is littered with all sorts of hearsay, probably mine included.

You would be far better served to take your citations from an educational, research, or standards site, than an oil wholesaler.

edit: car engine oils do contain some friction modifiers - thats why they can't be used in bikes with wet clutch systems.
Quality engine oils don't have an extensive VI improver package, because the base stock is naturally viscosity-stable.

Steve

[Quasievil]

cant remember of hand was years ago back when brocky was racin but he had worked on one of the teams.

i can tell you its not true I can also tell you the HRT team uses Mobil 1 as does alot of teams, to the point where I have put the oil into a HRT engine personally

[barty5]

Cough, c'mon, the web is littered with all sorts of hearsay, probably mine included.

You would be far better served to take your citations from an educational, research, or standards site, than an oil wholesaler.

edit: car engine oils do contain some friction modifiers - thats why they can't be used in bikes with wet clutch systems.
Quality engine oils don't have an extensive VI improver package, because the base stock is naturally viscosity-stable.

Steve

properly ture

latest rmmour thats around in oils is that some companies that are stating their oils are SM rated which in fact are not. There where 4 places that made the additives for this rating and one was wrecked with the storms in the states a few years back which leaves 3. Now according to what took place in a large meeting it was leaked from these 3 companies that none of these 3 plants sell their product to a certain number of companies (oil manufactures) that state their product is SM rated which it cant be with out it.
Comes back again to do always believe what you read on the packet and be very careful of cheaper oils what ever you use them for. Sorry no i wasn't given the brand names but they are sold here in NZ.

[barty5]

i can tell you its not true I can also tell you the HRT team uses Mobil 1 as does alot of teams, to the point where I have put the oil into a HRT engine personally

Ive been told by a number of dealer (holden ) not to put it in they said it becomes to thin and dose in the cranks ??? (road cars not race)
ah who knows im stickin with the elf in mine

[CookMySock]

latest rmmour thats around in oils is that some companies that are stating their oils are SM rated which in fact are not.I would not be surprised. Remind yourself how big these companies are.

There was also some company who made a 15W50 oil and stated it was the latest API spec, when that API spec would never have permitted a 15W50. That was about eight years ago and don't remember anything more about it.


Ive been told by a number of dealer (holden ) not to put it in they said it becomes to thin and dose in the cranks ??? (road cars not race)
ah who knows im stickin with the elf in mineI have been told the same, and I have personally witnessed this crap chop down until my precious motor sounded a stone in a fucking tin can.

Steve

[Quasievil]

Ive been told by a number of dealer (holden ) not to put it in they said it becomes to thin and dose in the cranks ??? (road cars not race)
ah who knows im stickin with the elf in mine

Well as I actually work for Mobil I can assure you thats bollocks and smells of agendas as opposed to facts.

[Quasievil]

There was also some company who made a 15W50 oil and stated it was the latest API spec, when that API spec would never have permitted a 15W50. That was about eight years ago and don't remember anything more about it.



Whats wrong with a 15W-50 oil made to a API spec?
API American Petroleum Institute endorse a 15W-50, what you on about ?

[camchain]

Hey there Dangerous B. I'm fairly sure the extreme pressure additives are not what causes MC clutches to slip, you do want these in a bike oil. It's the friction modifiers in car oils that can cause wet clutch problems, theres a difference.

Eg Apparently you can now get car oils with 'eco' label. Personally I wouldn't touch this stuff with a barge pole for my bike or car. Engine likely to run freer and more fuel economy but I'd guess shorter engine life (and maybe MC wet clutch probs). I'm equally wary of the high end oils labelled race/for high performance. Maybe a bit more power but at what cost to engine life? Can't see how friction modifier designed to reduce the friction within the oil (ie less syrupy and freer flowing) doesn't also alter its protecting viscosity. OK for sponsored racers getting frequent engine rebuilds but I'll steer clear at least for now. I reckon this is the sort of general stuff that should be discussed on here. Ball wear tests are interesting but more for fine tuning ideas about what specific oil we're going to buy.

I certainly have read in a couple of places about a misconception Re extra 'slipperyness' of Synthetic. Was trying to avoid bloating my 1st post but a good example would be the idea that some will say it's not a good idea to run in an engine on it, that it won't bed in properly. I used to think this but, kind of changing my mind these days. Some very high end/high performance car makers run synthetic from brand new. Performance is their bread and butter.

Not sure where you're coming from with the idea I was diagnosing oil by eye, but no worries. I don't taste it either, but I have been known to sniff very stinky fork oil (lol) & wonder why it did that.

I don't really agree that using a top qual/syn trans lube for longer is a good idea. True, you're not getting combustion contamination (in 2t, sorry but 90% relevant) but you are getting contamination from clutch. Oil in trans gets a tough time due to heavily loaded gears meshing, this is hard work for any oil.

[CookMySock]

Whats wrong with a 15W-50 oil made to a API spec?
API American Petroleum Institute endorse a 15W-50, what you on about ?As I say, it was nearly ten years ago. I won't defend it on a logical basis because I dont remember the facts, not do I care, but basically it was something like that particular API spec would never certify a SAE 50 rated oil. edit: my point being, big oil companies, just like any other big companies, will often make up all sorts of stories.


Hey there Dangerous B. I'm fairly sure the extreme pressure additives are not what causes MC clutches to slip, you do want these in a bike oil. It's the friction modifiers in car oils that can cause wet clutch problems, theres a difference. Yes yes, you are quite correct. I edited my post almost immeditately.

edit:


Oil in trans gets a tough time due to heavily loaded gears meshing, this is hard work for any oil.Agreed. The gear action "chops up" the long strands of VI improvers, which is really harmful to the SAE rating of the oil, and it loses viscosity fast. This is particularly bad for lubricants that heavily rely on the their VI improver package, and completely irrelevant for those that do not. Some high end oils DON'T HAVE a VI improver package, you can chop that fucker until the sky turns black and it won't thin out unless you contaminate it with something.

Yeah clutches will leave wear particles in it.

My apologies for all the edits. Brain is not working so well today.

Steve

[stig]

below link is the better summary on oil for thumpers I came across when I was trying to nail down the subect.
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

Summary leans towards fully synthetic diesel oils for reasons contained in the page.


Synthetic oils have a higher viscosity index than mineral base oils.
Synthetics have better resistance to thinning at high temperatures and thickening at low temperatures.
Since synthetics have little or no VIIs, synthetics last longer in service without radical changes in viscosity. (VII's breakdown dee to shearing in bike gearboxes)

Synthetics have a much higher film strength than petroleum oils, so it takes a lot longer for the oil to drain completely off your bearings and into your sump
This can be important to some of us offroaders as the bike can be sitting a while between uses.

Shell doesn't import thier Rotella T to NZ but Mobile has thier Delvac 1 here. I could only find it in 20L's though.

[Quasievil]

below link is the better summary on oil for thumpers I came across when I was trying to nail down the subect.
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

Summary leans towards fully synthetic diesel oils for reasons contained in the page.



This can be important to some of us offroaders as the bike can be sitting a while between uses.

Shell doesn't import thier Rotella T to NZ but Mobile has thier Delvac 1 here. I could only find it in 20L's though.


Dude dont put Delvac 1 in a bike ffs, its not recommended at all.

I use Mobil 1 racing 4t in my KTM and had done so for a year and its worry free, the engine looks and runs mint.

Delvac 1 sheeeesh !

[takitimu]

Dude dont put Delvac 1 in a bike ffs, its not recommended at all.

I use Mobil 1 racing 4t in my KTM and had done so for a year and its worry free, the engine looks and runs mint.

Delvac 1 sheeeesh !

Mmm, I am not so sure on that Mobil 1 4t, surely doesn't do alot for 250EXCF life span ( 60-70 hours piston ).

Before you go off the deap end on delvac 1, might pay to do some more reading, this item was very interesting http://www.shell.com/home/PlainPageServlet?FC=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/ask_our_expert/app_askourexpert_faq.html

[CookMySock]

Mmm, I am not so sure on that Mobil 1 4t, surely doesn't do alot for 250EXCF life span ( 60-70 hours piston ).I won't use mobil 1. It chops down real fast - I can hear this stuff going bad, fast. I sure would like to hear about its' VII Package, but I bet no one is talking.


Before you go off the deap end on delvac 1, might pay to do some more reading, this item was very interesting http://www.shell.com/home/PlainPageServlet?FC=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/ask_our_expert/app_askourexpert_faq.htmlC'mon thats just one persons say-so. While Delvac was widely respected as a general purpose engine oil in its time, I submit that modern oils are light-years ahead of it now.

Steve

[Quasievil]

my point being, big oil companies, just like any other big companies, will often make up all sorts of stories.




No I dont agree, Oil companies have to held accountable for anything they say amongst the market and its customers, therefore they are very very careful as to what they say, its more so the consumer that fills the market with B.S


I won't use mobil 1. It chops down real fast - I can hear this stuff going bad, fast. I sure would like to hear about its' VII Package, but I bet no one is talking.

Steve

What do you mean by chops down?

VII you mean the Viscosity Index VI ?? or the Viscosity index Improver?

[CookMySock]

What do you mean by chops down?

VII you mean the Viscosity Index VI ?? or the Viscosity index Improver?VI is Viscosity Index. VII package is VI Improver package.

Chops down, is breaks up the long-strand VI molecules so the oil cannot maintain viscosity.

Engine oil with VII's is like grated raw potato. If the long strands are subject to large shear forces they will break up, leaving lots of little chopped up bits and a soupy thin mess. If a base stock is used that doesn't require a VI improver package to achieve its' SAE rating, then this cannot happen. This is the difference between a quality synthetic made to do a job, and a cheap one designed to make its' master money.

Mobil 1 pretty clearly has a vulnerable VII package - I can hear it. After only a few thousand km's the oil looses it's "thickness" and the engine rattly as fuck.


Disclaimer: I don't sell any engine oil, and I don't care who uses what oil. It's my opinion only, and I might be wrong. So there.

Steve

[Quasievil]

VI is Viscosity Index. VII package is VI Improver package.

Chops down, is breaks up the long-strand VI molecules so the oil cannot maintain viscosity.

Engine oil with VII's is like grated raw potato. If the long strands are subject to large shear forces they will break up, leaving lots of little chopped up bits and a soupy thin mess. If a base stock is used that doesn't require a VI improver package to achieve its' SAE rating, then this cannot happen. This is the difference between a quality synthetic made to do a job, and a cheap one designed to make its' master money.

Mobil 1 pretty clearly has a vulnerable VII package - I can hear it. After only a few thousand km's the oil looses it's "thickness" and the engine rattly as fuck.


Disclaimer: I don't sell any engine oil, and I don't care who uses what oil. It's my opinion only, and I might be wrong. So there.

Steve

yeah I know what it is dude, I work for Mobil lol

I know that its always the oils fault to ..............not .........lol

[CookMySock]

yeah I know what it is dude, I work for Mobil lol

I know that its always the oils fault to ..............not .........lollol lol lol, so why fucken ask?

lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol fail

lol
Steve

[Quasievil]

lol lol lol, so why fucken ask?

lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol fail

lol
Steve

Simple to see if you know what you are talking about .
:Pokey:

[Quasievil]

Mobil 1 pretty clearly has a vulnerable VII package

Without getting into technical crap

Mobil 1 didnt become the worlds number one Synthetic oil by having a "vulnerable VII package"

Porsche, Mercedes,Aston Marton, to name a few, didnt choose Mobil 1 for its ""vulnerable VII package"

But I hear what youre saying I often hear stories as to how the engines have issues because of oil, only yesterday a guy running Valvoline in his race car was dissing the oil "Bloody Valvoline has cost me $70k in engine rebuilds this year"

I nod and go oh yeah really .....oh no..........thats bad.............,what a freckin tool, had nothing to do with anything else, just the oil.

[camchain]

Quote stigs link - http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

I liked that page & saved it. Read it all and thought a pretty good time saving summary of info out there - keeping in mind the need to keep an open mind. (Had to edit my post re tin being an extreme presure additive - it's zinc, not tin. Sorry-Doh). Recognised a lot of cut and paste of articles I've come across before. That guys test of viscosity stability shows Mobil 1 up top of what was sampled so surely can't be toooo bad!

Intend to dig further into synthetic/semi synthetic area. Seems a pity Castrol won that court case & synthetic distinction a bit blurry now.

A lot of guys do use oil for diesels in their bikes. Always seemed dodgy to me as high detergent/buffer content (for dirty diesel engines) not needed for bike, but maybe some value in these high quality oils if you pick the right one. I see one of the Rotella flavours only fail JASO motorcycle spec because of very slightly higher ash content, which can apparently cause piston, plug deposits. Maybe no big deal.

[takitimu]

A lot of guys do use oil for diesels in their bikes. Always seemed dodgy to me as high detergent/buffer content (for dirty diesel engines) not needed for bike, but maybe some value in these high quality oils if you pick the right one. I see one of the Rotella flavours only fail JASO motorcycle spec because of very slightly higher ash content, which can apparently cause piston, plug deposits. Maybe no big deal.

Interesting comment on ash, elf does ok in that regard, what is the spec that is most relevent for shear does anyone know ?.

<table border="1"><tr><td></td><td>Sulfated ash content (ASTM D 874)</td><td>Viscosity index (ASTM D 2270)</td><td>Kinematic viscosity at 100°C (ASTM D 445) </td></tr><tr><td>Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40</td><td>1.0</td><td> 164</td><td>13.8</td></tr><tr><td>Mobil 1 Racing 4T 15W-50</td><td>1.3</td> <td>166</td><td>19.4</td></tr><tr> <td>Mobil 1 Racing 4T 20W-50</td><td>1.0</td><td>150</td><td>17.8</td></tr><tr> <td> Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 </td><td>1.35</td><td>151</td><td>14.8</td></tr><tr> <td>Elf MOTO 4 XT TECH </td><td>0.83</td><td>163</td><td>16.89</td></tr><tr> <td>Elf MOTO 4 HP ECO 10W40 </td><td>0.82</td><td>153</td><td>13.7</td></tr></table>

[camchain]

Foo, getting techo now - I wish I knew what ash is doing in oil, lol. Looking at that chart, is it a viscosity stability improver?

[takitimu]

Foo, getting techo now - I wish I knew what ash is doing in oil, lol. Looking at that chart, is it a viscosity stability improver?

Looks like it's the left over from added metals like magnesium/zinc.

The odd thing is I read it was good for determining detergent additive content, dunno how that works out.

Ok read a bit more, turns out magnesium is a detergent, for some reason I'd not have guessed that.

[stig]

Dude dont put Delvac 1 in a bike ffs, its not recommended at all.
I ended up putting in the Motul synthetic listed in the manual.
main reason for this was, every thread i read about the subject turned into "my god of oil is better than..." and "i've ran XXoil for XXXXX hours and my engine still goes 'hard' "
I have a suspicion that Motul's high $/l is partly because its good stuff but also because of the confusopoly that the main brands enjoy where no customers really know whats going on and pick the one that good marketing, and fear of the unkown, leads them to.


I use Mobil 1 racing 4t in my KTM and had done so for a year and its worry free, the engine looks and runs mint.
I've been using castrol 4T on my RFS engine for a year and it still runs mint as well, but... im not sure thats the best test.
From what i've gathered lately some of castrols oils haven't rated well when tested after they have been run in engines and im now looking for something else.

I can handel the cost of motul every 5000km on my lc4 but the cost of replacing it in my trail bike after every few rides is enough to investigate justification.

Quasi - When it comes to high quality diesel oil, why is it not recommended at all?

[barty5]

Looks like it's the left over from added metals like magnesium/zinc.

The odd thing is I read it was good for determining detergent additive content, dunno how that works out.

Ok read a bit more, turns out magnesium is a detergent, for some reason I'd not have guessed that.


Cant be arsed going back to find right quote but that 20l drum you $$ on tm for $176 is a good deal thats bout as best a trade price as i can get normal rrp is 225 could be from one of the bike shops that have close down of late tryin to get some $$ back as i know they wont take it back

[Quasievil]

Quasi - When it comes to high quality diesel oil, why is it not recommended at all?

Thats a good question and the answer I guess is simply (from a Mobil perspective) Delvac 1, XHP,MX etc is designed for Diesel engines exclusively.
They hold endorsements from Engine builders like Detroit,Mack,Cat etc etc but you wont find an MA or FD endorsement from JASO etc, so would this be a warranty issue if you blew your new bike up, yeah I would think so.

Quality Diesel Oils these days are all built with emissions in mind and there are a bunch of different systems used for compliance purposes by the makers, EGR, ACERT,SCR,DPF/DOC blah blah they all use different process and need the involvment of the oil to aid meeting the standards set out by the various governments of the world.
Another factor ie Euro Trucks need different ASH levels than USA Engines this is also reflected in the oil,So what is the ash level requirement if any on a bike?

and the factors do go on and on...................................so which Diesel oil are you willing to bet your bike engine on???

For me (yes Im indoctrinated in the MOBIL way) I wont fuck with it, if MOBIL say MOBIL 1 Racing 4t for my bike then thats what it is, why would ya consider putting aside the recommendations for the opinion of a web forum

Remember these Oils arent just made up in the bucket out the back, most reputable oil makers throw millions at Oil research so I will go with their recommendations every time.

[takitimu]

Cant be arsed going back to find right quote but that 20l drum you $$ on tm for $176 is a good deal thats bout as best a trade price as i can get normal rrp is 225 could be from one of the bike shops that have close down of late tryin to get some $$ back as i know they wont take it back

At the moment I'm thinking of going fully synthetic, but it's a compelling price that semi-synth.

I think it's a agricultural dealer in Chch, but could be wrong.

One other thing, how relevent is noise, elf xt fully synth makes my head rattle like crazy ( was the same on the KLX450 ), but go Castrol GPS semi synth & it's back to being more quiet again.

[sinfull]

Well as I actually work for Mobil I can assure you thats bollocks and smells of agendas as opposed to facts.

Have to say i did a crank on mobil 1 ! But then it could have something to do with third gear exiting the cases on my sportster at 8000 k !
Bastards wouldn't give me a new bike and a year later it did the crank, but it must have been the mobil 1 aye

I been running castrol GPS in the bikes and do notice the gearbox becomes clunky after a say 6 hours of track ! Got recomended to try the castrol power 1 racing at twice the price, but i will still change it after a race weekend ! haha it just keeps getting more expensive !

Need to convert my wood burner into an oil fire, hehe now that would be a go seeing i have a doz 4l containers of 4/6hr old 10w40 in the shed !

[barty5]

At the moment I'm thinking of going fully synthetic, but it's a compelling price that semi-synth.

I think it's a agricultural dealer in Chch, but could be wrong.

One other thing, how relevent is noise, elf xt fully synth makes my head rattle like crazy ( was the same on the KLX450 ), but go Castrol GPS semi synth & it's back to being more quiet again.

yeh i get a bit top end noise but then yamis seam get a small bit anyway (nothing like ive heard on some of the rmz though) the oil has never made any diff.

[B0000M]

heres another topic then-

if bike oil is so awesome, why not then used (4-6 hour old) bike oil in your car / van / truck whatever ?

[barty5]

heres another topic then-

if bike oil is so awesome, why not then used (4-6 hour old) bike oil in your car / van / truck whatever ?

what you tryin to say put 6-8 hr old used bike oil in car???

[B0000M]

yea pretty much.

4-6 hours in a car is about 400km

or is bike oil actually fucked in 4-6 hours?

[barty5]

yea pretty much.

4-6 hours in a car is about 400km

or is bike oil actually fucked in 4-6 hours?

Ok but sorry that has to be the dumbest question on here have you filtered the shit out that come of the clutch etc etc for your bike oil would you put that in to your car i sure as hell wouldnt. Cost of a car engine rebuild for save a few bucks ie: bike holds what a litre. No way id do it.

[B0000M]

Ok but sorry that has to be the dumbest question on here have you filtered the shit out that come of the clutch etc etc for your bike oil would you put that in to your car i sure as hell wouldnt. Cost of a car engine rebuild for save a few bucks ie: bike holds what a litre. No way id do it.

geez, i keep forgetting about bikes which share engine oild with cluth (stupid idea)

na i was meaning the likes of hondas where they have individual engine oil, which comes out looking as good as it did when it went in.

20 hours of riding the bike = a free oil change in the car- or free topups if you have a shit old van that uses a bit

obviously if its swarf-ie as old trans oil thats just silly

[barty5]

geez, i keep forgetting about bikes which share engine oild with cluth (stupid idea)

na i was meaning the likes of hondas where they have individual engine oil, which comes out looking as good as it did when it went in.

20 hours of riding the bike = a free oil change in the car- or free topups if you have a shit old van that uses a bit

obviously if its swarf-ie as old trans oil thats just silly


well on that basis i guess you could but fuck what a hassle dont they hold less.

[sinfull]

Been there done that ! But it was a mates old shitter that was out of oil lol
Would have flown straight through being a thin grade oil !

[B0000M]

well on that basis i guess you could but fuck what a hassle dont they hold less.

bout 800ml

just the right amount for a van topup lol

[camchain]

The real shame about not recycling oil is that oil doesn't wear out, it just gets dirty and the additive package breaks down.

Among my dirty oil collection I have an oil change from a few months ago sitting in a clear plastic bottle. When the oil came out of bike it was dark and couldn't see through it. Crap has slowly settled to the bottom of container & now oil looks clear & clean again. Been thinking about changing oil more frequently but recycling oil that's been sitting for a while, back into bike. The oil in bike will always be cleaner plus the possibility of maybe getting another couple of hours use out of it.

[barty5]

The real shame about not recycling oil is that oil doesn't wear out, it just gets dirty and the additive package breaks down.

Among my dirty oil collection I have an oil change from a few months ago sitting in a clear plastic bottle. When the oil came out of bike it was dark and couldn't see through it. Crap has slowly settled to the bottom of container & now oil looks clear & clean again. Been thinking about changing oil more frequently but recycling oil that's been sitting for a while, back into bike. The oil in bike will always be cleaner plus the possibility of maybe getting another couple of hours use out of it.

interesting thoughts looked at the same thing with our trans flush machine gose throught 10-20L per trans. Idea was drain trans emptey machine then keep the oill that get used to flush trans as it gose straight through and ends up as waste till the trans runs clean can end up with 10l at a time. I stood 20 in a drum for couple a months as you said clean as. But would it be wrong to use reuse this on the next flush????? Its tipical that a go 60-70 plus L per 200 drum gose to waste.

[camchain]

Some of that flush must surely be clean enough to use again but would involve a bit of guess work, you'd think it'd be OK if left to sit for a good while and then take the top off it (leave any gunk in bottom of drum) before re-introducing to the system. Maybe set up a couple more drums and rotate through them?

I did my apprenticeship for NZ Electricity. 'Oil change' for turbine bearings was a piece of cake, just hook up large but portable filter press and let it run. No change of oil needed, just clean it. Always wanted to try some engine oil through it but never did. Would be heaps better than filter on bike or car.

Recently saw some nifty engine drain plug replacement items on the net that were a very compact little valve. Just slip on a drain hose and open the tap. would make the recycle/clean trick a lot quicker & easier.

[chadsta]

http://www.thumperfaq.com/oil.htm

I forked out big bucks on my 2 KTMs so not going cheap on the oil, penny wise and pound foolish IMO.

Top tip is to take a look at your oil when you drain it.
You will know if you are changing it often enough and if its performing well in your engine.
The condition of your oil will also tell you if something is on its way out with bits of debri in the oil.
If your clutch is slipping, clearly you have the wrong oil and youre wearing out your clutch plates prematurely.