Meaning of the Blue flag

[oldguy]

came across this argument between AMA, Al Ludington and racer Johnny Rock Page.

who's right?

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=37409

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[xgnr]

came across this argument between AMA, Al Ludington and racer Johnny Rock Page.

who's right?


Check out the body language of the poor buggers that do not want to get involved... classic

[Maido]

I am interested to see what Dom's take on this is, seeing as how he is in the current series. Usually you see in a WSBK or Motogp race, when the blue flag comes out the riders pull off the race line.
How ever, going by their rule book
"Section 7: Race Rules And Procedures 7.14 Flags / Lights vii. Blue Flag: Indicates to a rider that they are about to be overtaken. Riders are advised to keep their line and allow the faster rider to pass. Riders disregarding this flag may be blackflagged at the discretion of AMA Pro Racing." and what I know from various articles and this vid is that he "held his line" so therefore is in the right. However, going by what is happenning in their series at the moment it sounds like the DMG/AMA are ruling with an iron fist.

[oldguy]

Would have to see the incident for your self, to make a judgement, see those other peps creeping out, didn't wont anything to do with that argument.

[lostinflyz]

blue flag means your gonna be taken. thats about it.

a car racing a car may see three waved blue flags before they actually are in trouble. bike racing no sure.

usually it means dont try and take the corner as hard as you can but dont slow down. its a tough situation though often cause you can baulk a competitor by holding a line or cause an accident by moving off line. holding some one up is better than hitting them.

by all accounts though the johnny rock page guy seriously got in the way of hayes and yates (i think ) in the latter stages. poor spacial awareness probably but as they say, "thats racing!".

[Trudes]

I find the blue flag a dodgy one. The racer right at the start said he was still part of it, he was still racing. True.
I'm normally last in a race so if I get shown a blue flag I know I'm about to be lapped and the only people that will be passing me will be those that are lapping me, so I tend to try and get off the race line and get out of the way... Not always easy, but I try. However, if I am not last I tend to hold my line but make a point of trying to get out of the lapping riders way. The reason for this is I am still racing, I'm trying to hold someone off from passing me and I don't want to make it easy for them to tag onto the tail of the lapping riders and get an easy pass because I've moved off my line. I think that may have been what this guy was trying to explain, aside from the fact that that is what he'd just read the rules to have said, to hold your line but don't block. I don't know, but always love a good :girlfight:

[Biggles08]

When I was lapped at the Puke round of the nationals I was shown a blue flag...I purposely maintained my pace at about 90% and kept loose race lines to remain predictable to the riders coming up behind me...I figure, if they are fast enough to lap me, they are clever enough to pass me. I view the blue flag as an indicator that the person you hear behind you is a lapping rider, not a rider fighting for your place therefor indicating to me there is no need to defend your position by racing defensive lines....thats all....simple. People read too much into blue flags...they are there for indicative purposes only.

[steveyb]

Johnny is dead right from a racing and safety point of view.
The blue flag is used only, and that is only, to let a slower rider know that faster riders are approaching and therefore be prepared for them.
Do not do anything unpredicatable.
His argument in this case, if you accept that he did indeed hold his line, is sound.
The fact that the faster rider, Yates, did not go around him is entirely a normal racing situation.
All the riders accepted into the race are entitled to be there, they may be racing in their own battles for their own points etc and every rider needs to understand that. Overtaking lapped riders is simply another part of the race.

In top level racing (MotoGP, WSBK) NO ONE gets out of the way when they are in a racing situation. If they are in a clear zone (e.g. a straightaway or large long corner) and are fully aware of who is coming and have plenty of time to do it, then they do move over, REALLY EARLY.
NEVER in a racing situation.
Getting out of the way can be one of the most dangerous things you can do as you might not know how many riders are coming through, or when, or where.


From what happened during the SBK race at Laguna Seca during the MotoGP event it seems very much that the DMG crowd know very little about motorcycle racing and are actually endangering people. If you take this scene in its own context, the official actually had no arguement to counter Rock with, except to keep saying that he spoiled the show. So the important thing is the show, not the safety of riders.
Awesome.
Enjoy.

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=37236
http://www.usgpru.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7767
http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=301040

[YellowDog]

I hate assertive wanters like that. They want to win their arguaments by pointing and intimidating the other party.

In the days when I used to do gokart racing, a blue flag meant that you had to hold your line and not impede the line of the passing vehicle.
If you didn't obey the blue flag and pissed off more than one marshall, you got a red flag and the end of your race.

[CHOPPA]

Yeah have to agree steve, been trying to find it on you tube. Come accross another of aaron yates moves on a lapper, i cant understand why guys turn left before they turn right at the last minute obviously niether does he haha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBoKWno0-DU

another one i found of Dom Jones what a position to be in!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_YSnCpc0a4&feature=related

[k14]

That Leguna incident is some damn scary stuff. Pace car stopped dead just over the crest of T1 is just mindblowing. Then for the officials to try and blame the riders just makes it worse. Although watching the above video doesn't make it surprising at all if the officials are all that ignorant!

[MSTRS]

When I was lapped at the Puke round of the nationals I was shown a blue flag...I purposely maintained my pace at about 90% and kept loose race lines to remain predictable to the riders coming up behind me...I figure, if they are fast enough to lap me, they are clever enough to pass me. I view the blue flag as an indicator that the person you hear behind you is a lapping rider, not a rider fighting for your place therefor indicating to me there is no need to defend your position by racing defensive lines....thats all....simple. People read too much into blue flags...they are there for indicative purposes only.

Exactly right. As a marshall operating under MNZ rules, I only wave the blue flag at a rider who is about to be lapped/overtaken because that rider is significantly slower than the following bike. It means "Hold your line" and also serves as a warning so that there should be no surprise/fright when the pass occurs. A blue-flagged rider who changes line could be construed as trying to block, and will be reported/black flagged.

[Shaun S]

Yup - hold your line, faster rider approaching. i.e. you going to be lapped. That was the case in SA and the UK when I raced anyway.

Its a safety feature at most top level racing events.

[Mystic13]

I thought the riders said a lot.

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=37235

[Maido]

Al Laudington Suspended following his outburst:

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Jul/e/n090722a.htm

[Skunk]

I hold my line and speed but leave room on the inside and outside so the lapping rider/s can pass without me upsetting their race.
Afterall the leaders are the most important in the race - there's 3 points between 1st and 2nd but only one between 5th and 6th...

[scrivy]

Someone should ask Kickaha what it means....

Afterall, he sees it every race when he's lapped!!!!:killingme:rofl:





You still my friend kick.......???? :bye:

[CHOPPA]

Al Laudington Suspended following his outburst:

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Jul/e/n090722a.htm

Thats brilliant! Prob not good for ama racing as it seems like he does a good job but i hate wankers like that!

[mossy1200]

Surely the idea is to warn only that another bike is coming at knots.
if your getting laped then the bike has to be going quite alot quicker.
Frights get people moving off line and likely to disrupt the 2nd lapping bike thats battling with the first.
Changing line sounds very dangerous considering most marshels are near corner entrance.

[Teambwr47]

Yeah have to agree steve, been trying to find it on you tube. Come accross another of aaron yates moves on a lapper, i cant understand why guys turn left before they turn right at the last minute obviously niether does he haha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBoKWno0-DU

another one i found of Dom Jones what a position to be in!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_YSnCpc0a4&feature=related

While I understand Yates would have been annoyed by what happened, I hope he got seriously punished for the behavior he showed after the crash....what a twat!

[Marknz]

Never ever change your racing line or decrease speed unnecessarily. The onus is on the faster rider to ensure he/she can go round you on either the inside or outside safely. There will be times when you'll get done by one on the outside and one on the inside into or out of the same corner... but just hold your line and all will be good. And don't flinch!

[Gremlin]

Exactly right. As a marshall operating under MNZ rules, I only wave the blue flag at a rider who is about to be lapped/overtaken because that rider is significantly slower than the following bike. It means "Hold your line" and also serves as a warning so that there should be no surprise/fright when the pass occurs. A blue-flagged rider who changes line could be construed as trying to block, and will be reported/black flagged.
wot e said ^ Although, I have blueflagged people in the past, and they have run off track and crashed :blink:

Its to warn slower riders of fast riders approaching, hold your line, and prepare to be passed.

At the Nats especially, there is a massive difference between front and back speeds in the premiere classes.

[Maido]

Just for general information for people who aren't racers that browse this section of the forum.

6-19 The following flags will be recognised as the standard colours to be used as signals to
riders during a race:
Green: Start
Red: All riders stop racing.
30
Yellow: Held Stationary – SLOW DOWN – Proceed with caution. No overtaking until
danger area is passed. Sidecar riders-this could also mean your passenger is in difficulties.
Yellow: Waved – SLOW DOWN NOW – Proceed with extreme caution. No overtaking
until the danger area is passed, be prepared to stop.
For MX & SX: Whether the yellow flag be stationary or waved: this means no jumping at
all.
White: Last lap.
Black: Individual rider to stop and retire from course. The rider’s number must be shown
on a board at the same point as the black flag is displayed.
Black and White Check: Finish for all riders.
Red and Yellow Stripes: Oil on course.
Red and White Cross: Ambulance on course, proceed with caution.
Black with Orange Centre: Road Race Only: Machine to be removed from the circuit
immediately. The rider’s number must be shown on a board at the same point as the flag is
displayed. Flags must be a minimum size of 24” x 24” (600mm x 600mm).
Black and White Stripe: Oval Track Only, Competitor under protest. The rider’s
number must be shown on a board at the same point as the flag is displayed.
Blue Waved: SX Only. Warning you are about to be lapped.
Blue Waved Road Racing: Overtaking signal warning rider is about to be overtaken.
Blue Held Stationary Road Racing: Indicates that competitor is soon to be overtaken.
Purple: MX Protest Flag.


6-10 When overtaking, the onus is on the overtaking competitor to overtake without causing
interference to the overtaken competitor. Any competitor guilty of foul or unfair riding
shall be excluded, suspended, disqualified or otherwise punished.

[lostinflyz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITLrfjzC6nc

the offending incident.

make up ye own mind

[MSTRS]

Red and Yellow Stripes: Oil on course.


We also use it to indicate lime spread on oil, and/or other debris that cannot be immediately cleared...

[Kickaha]

We also use it to indicate lime spread on oil, and/or other debris that cannot be immediately cleared...

Yeah it's used more as "slippery shit" flag than just oil

[FROSTY]

Definitely--hold your line -do NOT get out of the way.

[Gremlin]

Yeah it's used more as "slippery shit" flag than just oil
Us marshals like to call it the "slippery surface" flag :bleh:

aka, get your running shoes on :done:

[Cajun]

AMA have released a new rule guide line for 'Blue Flags'


Official Statement from AMA Pro Racing Regarding the Use of the Blue Flag

DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. (July 27, 2009) - Recent events have called into question the use of the blue flag and the expected response of riders to whom the blue flag is displayed. In order to clear up any confusion, AMA Pro Racing makes the following statement:

AMA Pro Road Racing competitors are professionals and are expected to be familiar with the rules and regulations found in the 2009 AMA Pro Road Racing rule book. The first page of the rule book states the following:

"The intent of a specific rule will override a competitor's interpretation of a rule. The intent of a rule will be determined by AMA Pro Racing."

The overtaking of a slower rider by a faster rider where there is no position change is a situation that must be approached from a safety standpoint, and the intent of the rule regarding the use of the blue flag is to make a potentially dangerous situation less so. Section 7.14a.vii dictates the usage of and expected response to blue flags:

vii. Blue Flag: Indicates to a rider that they are about to be overtaken. Riders are advised to keep their line and allow the faster rider to pass. Riders disregarding this flag may be black-flagged at the discretion of AMA Pro Racing.

The safety of riders is of paramount importance, and each part of the rule deals with a specific aspect of protecting both the slower and faster rider. By advising that riders keep their line, they are being asked to stay in a controlled trajectory and not make erratic changes in their course, allowing the faster rider to predict the course of travel and avoid contact with the rider being passed. The second part of the sentence says that they are to allow the faster rider to pass, intended to further diminish the threat of contact between riders.

AMA Pro Racing is the premier professional motorcycle racing organization in North America, operating a full schedule of events and championships for a variety of motorcycle disciplines. From its Daytona Beach headquarters, the organization operates and manages AMA Pro Road Racing, which includes AMA Pro American Superbike, AMA Pro Daytona SportBike, AMA Pro SuperSport and AMA Pro SunTrust Moto-GT. AMA Pro Racing also manages and works closely with the day-to-day operational organizations of the AMA Pro Flat Track Championship and the AMA Pro Supermoto Championship Series in addition to other two-wheel and ATV series. Learn more about AMA Pro Racing at www.amaproracing.com.

[Biggles08]

AMA have released a new rule guide line for 'Blue Flags'

Well that didn't tell us anything more than what we already knew! :blink:

Blue flags are not hard to understand and there really is very little to interpret in this rule...blue flag shown to rider....you are about to be overtaken by a lapping rider....hold your line and be predictable and DON'T use defensive lines to block them passing because it is not affecting your position....done!

[Skunk]

We also use it to indicate lime spread on oil, and/or other debris that cannot be immediately cleared...
Such as Ducks and ducklings...

[MSTRS]

And the event that gave that Indian, sorry...Native American...his name.
TwoDucksFucking