KTM and Tuneboy - Take Care

[Gremlin]

This will mostly affect the road bikes, possibly other brands, but I would guess that any KTM that takes a fuel map could be affected.

What have I found out? Well, in the true fashion of male, I found out the hard way. Getting your KTM tuned with Tuneboy can cause you issues with the original KTM equipment. Tuneboy works in such a way that changes to the ECU via normal KTM equipment will be over-ridden by Tuneboy.

Long story short, several services ago, a map from KTM didn't get my 990SM running just right, but the shop had done what it could with what it had available. Rather than a piggy back I didn't really have space for (ie, a PCIII - which wasn't available at the time), I opted for the Tuneboy method.

Had a first tune, somewhat improved, but not there yet. Fast forward to last week, bike goes in for another service, and the workshop can't figure out why, when they run the bike through diagnostics the map has changed and the bike is ignoring some of the changes they make. New software is available, and a new map too, which can't be used.

The major issue for me? I can travel a lot, and if I ran into issues say, in the South Island, a KTM dealer down there wouldn't have much success with the bike, even getting my data sent down from Auckland.

So just be aware that Tuneboy could restrict how much your shop could work with the bike. :blink: Once the bike is in one piece again, I'll arrange to have the stuff removed, so the shop can work with the new map etc.

[imdying]

Check out the PC5, it's teeny tiny.

[Gremlin]

Check out the PC5, it's teeny tiny.
If it was available for my bike, it would definitely be an option. Its listed as coming soon.

Which is highly unlikely. The bike has not been released in the US (and there are no plans to at the moment), and despite emailing them re the free PC in return for using the bike as testing (with a partner of their choosing here in NZ), no response, now the website states the bike must be taken to their facility (which is in the States) :mellow:

[boomer]

leave it alone, stop tu tuing with it...

[gijoe1313]

Gremlin by name, gremlin by nature - why doesn't this surprise me? :slap: I think hes just a glutton for punishment and likes to beat himself senseless against a brick wall while throwing the contents of his wallet down a nearby drain! :pinch:

Hope it gets sorted so you can actually ride the thing! Its been languishing a while now... :no:

[Gremlin]

leave it alone, stop tu tuing with it...
:blink: I must what? no comprehendo senor :no: All I'm doing (on the engine side) is air filter and exhausts, but struggling to get the fuel mixture right, as european maps and NZ fuel don't work too well together.


Hope it gets sorted so you can actually ride the thing! Its been languishing a while now... :no:
Been a whole week... once its back together from the other stuff being done, I'll get it down to the dyno to get the Tuneboy stuff removed, then they can upload the new maps etc :D

[boomer]

:blink: I must what? no comprehendo senor :no: All I'm doing (on the engine side) is air filter and exhausts, but struggling to get the fuel mixture right, as european maps and NZ fuel don't work too well together.


Been a whole week... once its back together from the other stuff being done, I'll get it down to the dyno to get the Tuneboy stuff removed, then they can upload the new maps etc :D

i took mine to xxx last week or so, for the 15k service. They did a good job of tuning her; making sure the throttle bodies and valves were all in sync.. shes good as gold. i really dont understand why people moan about jerkiness if theyve had it tuned properly. I can wheelie quite easily in first using throttle control.

and i don't know how u spell it but dont the maoris tell u not to tu tu with it... tu tuing..

get ya fat fingers of it and get it tuned...

[Gremlin]

i took mine to xxx last week or so, for the 15k service. They did a good job of tuning her; making sure the throttle bodies and valves were all in sync.. shes good as gold. i really dont understand why people moan about jerkiness if theyve had it tuned properly. I can wheelie quite easily in first using throttle control.

and i don't know how u spell it but dont the maoris tell u not to tu tu with it... tu tuing..
yes yes you gormless english boy, I understand what tutuing is... I don't understand how you CAN'T... I always customise my bikes :blink:

The Superduke is easier because its more widely sold, more widely supported and much more common. For some odd reason the SM doesn't sell that well, when those of us that ride them think they're one of the best bikes for NZ conditions.

[boomer]

yes yes you gormless english boy, I understand what tutuing is... I don't understand how you CAN'T... I always customise my bikes :blink:

The Superduke is easier because its more widely sold, more widely supported and much more common. For some odd reason the SM doesn't sell that well, when those of us that ride them think they're one of the best bikes for NZ conditions.


there's only 7 of teh R's in teh country.. what you talking about Willis.. this highly refined engine is a thoroughbred not some fookin chook chaser that u need step ladders to mount !!

[DMNTD]

shes good as gold. i really dont understand why people moan about jerkiness if theyve had it tuned properly. I can wheelie quite easily in first using throttle control.

I changed the rear sprocket (+2) on "your" bike Duncy Poohs. Re gearing 'solves' a lot of the snatching issues that most V twins have with OEM gearing. The 1098 was terrible for it...initially.

BTW...gizza going Maori boy!

[boomer]

I changed the rear sprocket (+2) on "your" bike Duncy Poohs. Re gearing 'solves' a lot of the snatching issues that most V twins have with OEM gearing. The 1098 was terrible for it...initially.

BTW...gizza going Maori boy!


They tell me at the shop that teh boys down the road sent your bike Norf in an attempt to solve the snatch-i-ness issues...

you can have a ride any time ya fookin honkie...

[DMNTD]

They tell me at the shop that teh boys down the road sent your bike Norf in an attempt to solve the snatch-i-ness issues...

They must be confused as I bought it from MakzGear down here in Tauranga.
The good guys at TripleX did do its 12k service though and there was no snatch...just sausage


BTW...you c0nts can't have my toaster!

[boomer]

They must be confused as I bought it from MakzGear down here in Tauranga.
The good guys at TripleX did do its 12k service though and there was no snatch...just sausage


BTW...you c0nts can't have my toaster!

I dont want ya toaster.. i want ya love

[Owl]

Been a whole week... once its back together from the other stuff being done, I'll get it down to the dyno to get the Tuneboy stuff removed, then they can upload the new maps etc :D

Couple of questions Gremlin.

Why not leave the TuneBoy in place and get someone that knows about it to create a map for the bike?

Also, what else does the TuneBoy allow you to do with the KTM i.e. diagnostics, speedo calibration, rev limiter etc?

[Gremlin]

there's only 7 of teh R's in teh country.. what you talking about Willis.. this highly refined engine is a thoroughbred not some fookin chook chaser that u need step ladders to mount !!
The superduke is sold in the US for one, the SM isn't. Face it, your bike is pretty common. I've seen 1-2 other 990SM.

BTW...you c0nts can't have my toaster!
piss orf ya homo yamaha loving fag. You don't deserve a ktm toaster :bleh:

I dont want ya toaster.. i want ya love
yeah, boomer wants ya man love, gimme ya toaster!

Why not leave the TuneBoy in place and get someone that knows about it to create a map for the bike?

Also, what else does the TuneBoy allow you to do with the KTM i.e. diagnostics, speedo calibration, rev limiter etc?
Alright, back to the topic at hand. Q1: Thats easy. First up, the tuneboy isn't a piggy back unit like say, a powercommander. Therefore it doesn't have a map for it. Tuneboy modifies the ecu, or more correctly, the settings around the ecu. I have had it tuned, made some difference, but still wasn't where it should be (it was a work in progress).

Q2: the KTM software used to be quite restrictive in adjustments. You could load maps, adjust 0 and full, tilt the map, etc, but not individually set up the points. Only one map was available, and it wasn't a good match (Euro maps don't work well with NZ fuel). So the tuneboy allowed more customisation of the settings within the bike, in theory, offering more features and control over the tune of the bike.

Diagnostics are already done via KTM software, and it gets run through at every service.

Paraphrasing the mechanic (coz I'm way out of my mechanical depth here) if the *insert part* opened at 12.6 volts, and was rich, you could make it open later (or earlier, whatever) so that it was improved... with the Tuneboy. This meant however, it over-rode any settings made via the KTM software.

New KTM software is being released shortly, with more features and another map is available for my bike... but Tuneboy is stopping it from taking effect.

If you want lots of mechanical type details, best to ring Triple X Moto, as they've dealt with it (and spoken to Australia about it too). Any more from me and I will get it wrong, you'll be confused, and it will be a mess :laugh::laugh:

[Owl]

Yep fair enough Gremlin!

I was just curious about how well the TuneBoy would work with the KTM, as I know it varies widely between models and makes of bikes.

I've had TuneBoy hooked to my Speed Triple for the last couple of years and found it magic. Shitloads of maps available, but many of them crap, so eventually I had it custom tuned by TripleFourensics.

I couldn't be happier with the result!

[boomer]

standard maps are just that.. standard. Nothing will or can compare to a proper tune done by a trained mechanic with the correct tools.

[idleidolidyll]

Does the 990 have a selectable map dial under the seat like other KTM's?
If so the tuner should have been smart enough to use one of the spare slots or override the useless low power map.
If they weren't onto it enough to think that well; I wouldn't be going back to them.

As an aside: I was talking to Gavin from Yamaha Henderson (whatever the shop is called). Gavin was one of my mecahnics when I worked at AMPS and bloody good at what he does. Gavin's take on Tuneboy vs Power Commander is that the latest PC is so much more adjustable that it makes the TuneBoy something of a joke.
Being able to set partial throttle (15% I think he said as smallest) as well as every few hundred revs makes it far easier to target a specific rev range and get the mapping close to perfect.
I seem to recall Gavin suggesting about $400 on top of the plug in chip to tune it up on his dyno.

If you pinch pennies you get a half arsed job: don't complain

[Owl]

As an aside: I was talking to Gavin from Yamaha Henderson (whatever the shop is called). Gavin was one of my mecahnics when I worked at AMPS and bloody good at what he does. Gavin's take on Tuneboy vs Power Commander is that the latest PC is so much more adjustable that it makes the TuneBoy something of a joke.
Being able to set partial throttle (15% I think he said as smallest) as well as every few hundred revs makes it far easier to target a specific rev range and get the mapping close to perfect.
I seem to recall Gavin suggesting about $400 on top of the plug in chip to tune it up on his dyno.

If you pinch pennies you get a half arsed job: don't complain

I'm afraid I don't get that?

Doesn't sound like there's anything there that TuneBoy can't do and more. I certainly couldn't find anything about the PC5 adjusting ignition map. I also thought TuneEdit maps were adjustable from closed to wide open TP.:confused:

[idleidolidyll]

I'm afraid I don't get that?

Doesn't sound like there's anything there that TuneBoy can't do and more. I certainly couldn't find anything about the PC5 adjusting ignition map. I also thought TuneEdit maps were adjustable from closed to wide open TP.:confused:

From what he said the tuneboy is adjustable at 1000 rev intervals while the pc was every couple of hundred. Don't quote me on that though, he's the expert with years of dyno experience not me. I'm a salesman and a bike rider: I don't try to second guess guys like Gavin with years of hands on experience.
My advice would be to call the shop and ask to talk to Gav: sales literature is often very selective and nowhere near as reliable as an intelligent operator who knows how both systems work in practice rather than theory.

[Gremlin]

I was just curious about how well the TuneBoy would work with the KTM, as I know it varies widely between models and makes of bikes.
Yeup, apparently they work great with Triumph, and I understand KTM and Triumph use similar ECU... I dunno eh? :confused:

Does the 990 have a selectable map dial under the seat like other KTM's?
well, I stand corrected, but since it has never been mentioned (in any of plenty of discussions over the months about various things), I don't believe it does?

I would probably have got a powercommander for the bike (had one for a previous bike) IF it was available, but it isn't... so that option went out the door. <_<


I seem to recall Gavin suggesting about $400 on top of the plug in chip to tune it up on his dyno.

If you pinch pennies you get a half arsed job: don't complain
IF this is aimed at me (I can only really presume it is) then you're barking up the wrong tree. Over $600 spent on Tuneboy license and tuning (which could all be for nothing... we'll see) and all those who ride with me laugh at the dollars that are thrown at the bike in servicing etc. Plenty have commented they could have bought several bikes with the amount I have spent on my baby :laugh:

I'm happy to spend the dollars getting it right. I am not happy spending the dollars, not getting the result and ending up in a position that is probably worse than before. I spend all day recommending stuff to clients and sorting issues, so I know cutting corners never works long term.

[TripleZee Dyno]

Where do we start?
First off in regard to "fuel injection" as it applies to modern bikes.
The first "computers" fitted to bikes ran ignition systems.
Then they added fuel injection.
These were generally standalone units, no diagnostics, just did what they did.
Electronic versions of the earlier mechanical units.
Put them all in one box and with advances in computing power started adding diagnostics etc until today we have engine mangement systems.
The basic difference between Power commander and ecu tuners like tuneboy, race tuner etc is the PC is a fuel adjustment device and the ecu tuners access the engine management functions within the ecu.
Essentially Tuneboy and most other ecu tuning software access all editable tables in the ECU. Fuel, cylinders, ignition, trims etc. The tuning steps are the as per the factory. They generally wont be in nice easy steps like 250/500/1000 rpm because the map axis of throttle and rpm are actually related to a cells hex address within its table. When these address' are converted to decimal (what we see on the screen) the resulting numbers seem to go up in a random manner, rarely do you see exact 1000 rpm increments.
But well within every 250 rpm of a PC.
As regards tuning flexibility and accuracy compared to a PC, with most PC you have a fuel table per cylinder.
Compare to for example the 990 where there are 10 tables available, fuel, ignition, trims, etc etc
When tuning generally we rely on the fact that the base settings the factory have come up with a pretty good. Changes of exhaust, or aircleaner will likely only require a small fueling adjustment and either a PC or a tuneboy will do the job.
If there are major modifications, compression, cams, etc etc then more than just fueling adjustments will probably be required to get the best from the motor.
If there is a fundamental problem with the factory base settings again more than fueling adjustments will probably be required. (KTM seem to have their fair share of this)
These last two examples are where tuneboy and similar are far superior to a power commander.

Regarding the "map switch" on 690's it is an ignition map switch. Low power, hi power, crappy fuel you get on your journey thru Mogadishu.

[TripleZee Dyno]

if all this is true why dont the factory tools do this?
They do.
But they dont want everyone fooling around with everything because it is easy enough to screw everything so the bike wont even run.
The factory tools they give to the dealers are hobbled to limit the potential damage that can be done.
Not so long ago I had to recreate from scratch a complete map set for a bike.
Someone had got hold of a software tool, completely knackered the maps, and then the tool they had wouldnt work because the maps were empty.
10 hrs and it was running reasonably well. But was by no means finished.
Harley Davidson are probably the only manufacturer who do release their ecu tuning tool to the general public. With all the appropriate disclaimers in triplicate.
I havent seen the new KTM software but as I understand it they have enabled some adjustment of target lambda. In Gremlins map I turned off the O2 sensor during tuning so lamda targets wont work, hopefuly reactivating the O2 sensor will sort that out.

the whole world is a work in progress not just tuning

[TripleZee Dyno]

If anyone is actually interested in this stuff you are welcome to drop by the workshop and I will run a program up and give you a quick run thru
cheers
and people used to complain about carbys

[Dooly]

Just had my Speed Triple and Daytona 955s setup with Tuneboy custom tunes by Tripleforensics in Opunake and the result is staggering.
I cannot believe how much better, faster, and crisper the throttle response is on both.
Performance has improved very well, right thru the rev range, especially down in the emissions rev zones.

[idleidolidyll]

[QUOTE=Gremlin;1129330915]IF this is aimed at me (I can only really presume it is) then you're barking up the wrong tree. QUOTE]

expensive is a relative term: to me, $600 is small change and not well spent if it didn't work (pissed against the wall in fact). Once a bike is running well, the cost to extract more and more torque/power costs more and more for less and less return.

If I was looking to develop a bike, i'd be looking to spend the money on the best product AFTER consulting the experts (which i did).

the last tune up mods on my KTM cost $2500 but that includes a full ti exhaust system (used), some clever air box mods with a new curve in the chip. I got perhaps 5-7HP up top but 20% or better mid range which for a 650 single is pretty damn good.
Next for me would be to go tuneboy, PC or some other chip override to allow the level of future adjustability I expect. That's why I chose to ask an expert I trust who does superlative work.
Other than that, the next best option would be to lose fat off the bike or my midrift; i dunno which would be cheaper/easier.

if you haven't already looked into it, the inlet is usually the place to go on a modern bike when searching for HP (most seem to think exhaust or chip tune but generally without an inlet mod, they're often wrong: it can't blow if it doesn't suck first).
ie: air box mods on a big Yammy I had netted almost 30HP on the dyno; the loud muffler added 1HP.

you sound like you're trying not to find the best but to justify a decision you've already made.

my suggestion was to ring Gavin, he's the expert not me and by the sounds of it, more of an expert than you too.

don't ask for advice if you take umbrage when it is given

[idleidolidyll]

there ya go, John is no slouch and qualifies as an expert; something i have catgorically stated i'm not. like i said, call them and discuss it

however, the next issue you have is deciding which of the two opposing opinions is right and without talking to both you'll usually get the opinion that pushes you toward the system or product that person sells or uses.

John and Gavin know each other and no doubt respect each others handiwork but they obviously have differing opinions on which is best.

what does that indicate? To me it signals that the chip tuning industry is full of good ideas that can be reached through a number of different methods. Who is right? Maybe both.

I'll tell you now though; the last performance tune up on the 690 changed the bike completely. If it was quick before; its lightning now and runs better from 0 to hero. That job was done by the KTM dealer using KTM tunes (Triple X).

If you want to look at ideas for KTM's, fire up alta vists babelfish and go to KTM Sommer for tuning ideas out of the box: http://www.ktm-sommer.de/
there's possibly no better authjority on the brand on the planet

[Dazza]

Just had my Speed Triple and Daytona 955s setup with Tuneboy custom tunes by Tripleforensics in Opunake and the result is staggering.
I cannot believe how much better, faster, and crisper the throttle response is on both.
Performance has improved very well, right thru the rev range, especially down in the emissions rev zones.So you and Owl like Kerry's work then. He's certainly dedicated to Triumph !

[Owl]

Just had my Speed Triple and Daytona 955s setup with Tuneboy custom tunes by Tripleforensics in Opunake and the result is staggering.
I cannot believe how much better, faster, and crisper the throttle response is on both.
Performance has improved very well, right thru the rev range, especially down in the emissions rev zones.

Great to hear that Dooly! I thought with your background, you may be harder to please than most.:msn-wink:


So you and Owl like Kerry's work then. He's certainly dedicated to Triumph !

I certainly do! Yes, very dedicated and what other mechanic cleans like this? He actually makes you want to part with money.:laugh:

[Gremlin]

don't ask for advice if you take umbrage when it is given
You missed the actual point of the thread entirely. It was not to piss and moan about it, as I was well aware that it was a work in progress. The only intent behind putting up the thread was to make people aware of a potential issue that no-one seemed to be aware of. ie, installing tuneboy may prevent ktm factory software from fully interfacing with the bike. Triple X had to speak to the KTM men in Australia (ie, with years of European experience) and TripleZee also had to go up the chain.

For the record, I wasn't naming names (I don't have issues with either of the businesses, I think they're both superb :clap:), but John has already posted. Triple X did all the tuning, and did what they could with what they had (software, maps etc) at the time (early this year). Then I dealt with John (TripleZee) for Tuneboy. John agreed the KTM map was good, and struggled to gain tangible benefits from tuning, but we (Triple X, TripleZee, I) could all see the bike was still running rich. Its not an HP quest, its got plenty already, its about getting it tuned right, as 8L/100km is not right (yes, partly, its the way I ride it :lol:)

If we want to wave our e-penis' about as to who has spent the most, I wasn't counting the pipes :bleh: Pipes (and not akra at that - not at $4500), air filter and the tuneboy and tuning alone easily surpass $2500. I'm not even sure how many dollars (or labour hours) have been spent by Triple X on the tuning... but Triple X has had well past $6k all up in less than 9 months, but that includes servicing, tyres, parts (not tuneboy or pipes tho).

The issue I encountered (and was warning people about) was that when I took it back to Triple X for another service, there was a new map available from KTM, but they couldn't load it because of Tuneboy.

Hopefully in the next few days we should be closer to a resolution, everyone will have learned something along the way and the bike will be ready to have more km put on it :cool:

[boomer]

my bike has more hp and akras..

check out My E-Peni :2thumbsup

[Gremlin]

my bike has more hp and akras..

check out My E-Peni :2thumbsup
is peni a little one? that would make sense :bleh: And you have 15,000km on a 2007 bike. Get out of this thread and go ride the bike ffs! :Pokey:

23,000km and mine is 10 months old :baby: Not even my primary bike... hornet does most of the day to day work etc.

[Owl]

23,000km and mine is 10 months old :baby: Not even my primary bike... hornet does most of the day to day work etc.

Good going there Gremlin!

Anyway, best of luck sorting that SD. I hope it all works out!:msn-wink:

[Dooly]

Great to hear that Dooly! I thought with your background, you may be harder to please than most.:msn-wink:

Maybe, but as I can do all mechanical myself I have no way to do the ECU and electronic thingys on bikes being a vehicle/car mech, so am quite happy to get an expert to set it up for me, so maybe in the future I can have a play with it if I get a cable for the ECU.
In all my years in the trade, have never seen a tradesman so dedicated and precise, and actually enjoying what he does. Plus being in the same game he gave me an indepth tech look at what the software does so it was quite interesting.
I said I wanted more grunt thru the rev range and more top end.
He took the Daytona on a test up to 260 and said it was still pulling hard.........now thats keeness on a test ride.:yes:

But also, so many people recommended him, and I did reading thru here from many comments about his work. So KB is actually a good resource to find out many things about people/business's in the bike field.

[lukemillar]

Yep fair enough Gremlin!

I was just curious about how well the TuneBoy would work with the KTM, as I know it varies widely between models and makes of bikes.

I've had TuneBoy hooked to my Speed Triple for the last couple of years and found it magic. Shitloads of maps available, but many of them crap, so eventually I had it custom tuned by TripleFourensics.

I couldn't be happier with the result!

Me too. I have a tuneboy for bothe my daytona and the Gas Gas. The Daytona one is sweet - loads of diagnostic stuff, error code reading and a lot of knowledge and tuneability (I made a new word)! The Gas Gas one however, is quite limited in that it can just load new fuel maps. Given that the bike is stock - I haven't changed a thing with it!

Do people know of any Tuneboy friendly dyno guys in the North Island? I know you can convert a PC3 map but I rather someone who knows the Tuneboy software.

Thanks
Luke

[icarve]

Hey Gremlin I reckon the best solution for you is to fork out the extra $190 or wateva it is and buy your own cable to be able to hook up with your tuneboy key. Your key is for your bike and you can take it any where and I think once you own your own cable you can have it tuned by any good tuner and probably best to get on a dyno jet dyno and set it up as if you had a pc111 If its any help to you I chose a KTM map recommended on the Superduke forum for my bike and had it installed by Paul and Justin at Superior in Christchurch and it runs real strong right through especially on topend and when I had it on the dyno last week the fueling lokked real good except for a wee bit lean down the bottom. If you rang Paul he could get you the info for that map and I would bet it would work well in your sm too.

[Gremlin]

It still doesn't avoid the issue that the KTM factory software cannot access the ECU to the full extent it could without the Tuneboy installed.

Its also not quite like a powercommander, which is a piggy back unit, intercepting the commands sent by the ECU, adjusting them, and forwarding them to the motor.

The tuneboy software looks to be accessing controls that the factory software mostly likely deliberately cannot change (ie, the factory software can see the settings, but cannot change them). I spent a bit of time in the shop discussing it today, its been a learning curve for us all, and more work next week

[Owl]

I said I wanted more grunt thru the rev range and more top end.
He took the Daytona on a test up to 260 and said it was still pulling hard.........now thats keeness on a test ride.:yes:

Ha Ha, I can imagine! Daytona no problem, but Speedy needs a little rev limiter tweaking to achieve 260.:whistle:

[Gremlin]

Getting more technical (and hopefully I won't fuck it up :crazy:)
The stock map allows a reasonable change in settings adjustment, as stock it needs to cater for a massive range of riders. Chuck in a race/open map (as we did with mine) to accomodate pipes etc and the options and level of adjustment in the ecu narrows a lot. The reasoning behind this is that the map is already more finely tuned, and allowing people to mess with it too much could do harm to the bike, so to protect the bike, the factory software limits the adjustments available.

Tuneboy obviously doesn't have such restrictions (or desire to "protect" the bike) and hence change much more. Apparently the injectors for the cylinders should be around 0.95 (don't ask me what), yet one is at 0.93 (fine) and the other is 0.71 (somethings, but waaaaay out). Neither has a large enough adjustment range to bring them back to the same level... etc etc...

Part of the difficulty in bringing the bike back to "normal" is that the ktm software won't allow some stuff to be changed, so it will need to be normalised via the Tuneboy software. Also unknown is if the tuneboy is fudging the values the ktm software is reading, or they are genuine figures. If the Tuneboy is removed, will the values automatically return to what they should be, or won't they, as the ktm software won't allow their changing.

There is the potential for the Tuneboy software to actually be very useful, if the figures are a bit out from factory... but not at the penalty of being unable to use ktm software.

Interestingly, it appears that a full ECU factory reset will not work, as the Tuneboy software will still be present. Removing the Tuneboy software, and then doing a full factory reset should return the bike to normal, and then re-initialise it from there.

My head hurts :pinch:

[Waihou Thumper]

leave it alone, stop tu tuing with it...

You got plenty there, why cause the grief? If the bike doesn't have the beans you want why buy it in the first place?
Tu-tu with it to a degree, but now look....:Oops:

[Gremlin]

Tu-tu with it to a degree, but now look....:Oops:
shush... hindsight is 20/20 :whistle: At least everyone else is now more aware...

It was simply making it a bit better, pipes to free it up a bit, loss of weight, and the stock pipes ran extremely hot (couldn't even quickly touch them without burning yourself). Air filter sorta was a logical extension (I don't own stock bikes, have to make them my own).

The core of the problem (and behind all these issues) is that KTM makes the maps for the bikes. NZ fuel is different to the rest of the world, so using a European map here in NZ will make the bike run rich. This is a fact irrespective of bike. It was this richness I was trying to get rid of. While its real bad for a bike to run lean, its also not good for it to run rich (as in, it would make my eyes water on a cold start up, and the area smelt of gas).

Ironing it out, to make it run great (and long term, more reliable etc) has lead to this most exciting of adventures :pinch:

:crybaby:

Needless to say, this is just the engine mods... for the accessory list (non engine bits), lets just say the load on the alternator, load across auxiliary circuits etc, has all had to be calculated, to make sure they are within limitations...

[idleidolidyll]

From what i've heard and seen on international KTM forums, all dealers in most countries including NZ have a similar diagnostic/control tool and it is definitely limited by factory restrictions. HOWEVER, rumour suggests there is one full race KTM diagnostic tool in the country that allows everything to be changed and that is owned by the importer. The word is that the RC8R is sent to importers WITH that tool instead of the standard one.

psst! Don't tell anyone but it may just be possible to get someone really close to the importer like Triple X in East Tamaki to go borrow it and tune your bike for SFA (I think a tune is about $150). The importer is about half a kilometre from the shop.

Of course Paul MIGHT lend that same tool to other KTM dealers if they request it from the importer to use with "race" bikes.

If enough people tell the dealers they are going to TuneBoy or PC3/5 their bikes instead of getting the dealers to tune them because the KTM tool is crap; the importer might just make the race tool more available.

[lukemillar]

Ok, I may be wrong here, but I think you are over-estimating what the Tuneboy has done. I don't think the tuneboy installs any software onto the bikes ECU. I simply replaces the fuel map. From the Daytona, there are a few options to turn off various sensors if you are installing a full exhaust etc, but these are the same virtual switches that Triumph would use if you asked them to fit a full system for example.

Tuneboy software should come with your standard map anyway, so reverting to that should be easy as downloading the tune.

My advice would be to fire off an email to Wayne at Tuneboy (support@tuneboy.com.au) and I'm sure he'll be able to explain things/advise you on how to put things right. He is a decent guy and knows his stuff.

[Gremlin]

is owned by the importer. The word is that the RC8R is sent to importers WITH that tool instead of the standard one.
Interesting... I would imagine the race tool per se, does exist (makes sense) but heavily controlled access due to potential damage to bikes. Worth pursuing tho, so I will keep it in mind. I can confirm that the RC8R does require software beyond the current version of the factory tool, but has not been released to all dealers yet. It does have more features than the old version (well, the version dealers currently have) and is required to sort some issues on the bike, as the current version doesn't have the features needed. Training is still being organised etc, so that the dealers can understand how to use the software.

My advice would be to fire off an email to Wayne at Tuneboy (support@tuneboy.com.au) and I'm sure he'll be able to explain things/advise you on how to put things right. He is a decent guy and knows his stuff.
Triple Zee has been handling this, and I freely admit I am well out of my technical depth here. The computer side of the stuff is fascinating tho :sunny:

[Gremlin]

Ok, time for an update...

Yesterday I had John from TripleZee and Wayne from Triple X and myself all at Triple X.

Process:

John plugs into bike and removes his custom map, loads Tuneboy's KTM normal map
Wayne plugs into bike and does a full ECU reset
Wayne loads KTM race/open map, approriate for the 990SM, with slip ons
Bike is put through the initialisation process again, ie, it needs to run at idle, with no touching, throttle movement etc for 10-15 min odd
Wayne has a bit of trouble getting live data from the bike, but looks like he can fully work with it
Gremlin is relieved... worse case scenario was possibly having the ECU clock up some air miles to Europe :shit:


One thing... Tuneboy is not "loaded" into the ECU, therefore, Tuneboy cannot be "removed" from the ECU either (this was the advice from Australia). We *suspect* that the custom map John did for me was what prevented the factory diagnostics from working properly. Also, Tuneboy takes the KTM normal map and alters it so it can work within their software. This caused us some doubts as to whether Wayne would be able to plug in... but from the process above, it seemed to go OK.

ie, John's custom map would have had values outside of the parameters considered acceptable by the KTM software, and therefore, it wouldn't do anything with the bike (inc loading a different map). If this is the case (and assuming Tuneboy can't do anything to work around this) it would mean you can't use Tuneboy and still be able to have the bike diagnosed via KTM software.

This is guess work however, so take the guessing and wild assumptions with a pinch of salt :laugh:

Gremlin is reasonably happy tho. The bike sounds much better and smoother revving it through the rev range, and Wayne was able to see some values he didn't think were right. Once thats all sorted, and all my custom work, I should have Katie back by the weekend! :jerry:

I guess if you have questions about your own bike, speak to the experts... I ain't one :no:

[boomer]

You're the reason he hasn't had time to fit my new dash!?

So the moral of this story huh Au... don't fookin Tu Tu with shit ya don't understand !

[Owl]

So the moral of this story huh Au... don't fookin Tu Tu with shit ya don't understand !

Or simply buy a Triumph:D

Glad to hear you're somewhat on your way to being sorted Gremlin!:yes:

[Gremlin]

You're the reason he hasn't had time to fit my new dash!?

So the moral of this story huh Au... don't fookin Tu Tu with shit ya don't understand !
Wait... You're the reason my custom wiring is taking so long? Piss orf, I can pretty much guarantee my bike was in before yours. Besides, why the hell do you need a dash, you polish it to death or something? :blink:

Hey, I told others to Tu Tu with it, now we all understand it better :stupid: