CKT Racetech fork overhaul/upgrade

[vifferman]

It all made sense on the way home tonight. This morning...? Pfffftt... I dunno.
Literally - I really didn't know what to expect, but I expected it to be HUGE. Fantastic.
My first ride on my rejuvenated forks, and I was expecting... perfection, I guess.
Where was the Magic Carpet Ride? Why could I feel the bumps like that? Is this what you get for A Whole Lotta Money? What was that strange feeling in the first turn I made?

I thought about it during the day, and felt disappointed, perhaps a little cheated. Then I started to rationalise, which made me feel a little better. The seals were brand new, it was cold this morning so the oil was more viscous, I'd only tested it on a short ride, most of that was motorway, blah blah blahdy blah.

Then I rode home, and suddenly realised something. An epiphany, if you like. The VFR was very composed - it was gliding along with no fuss, no bother, no fidgetyness.
You know those really stupid cars you see, with the chopped springs, no suspension travel, crappy damping, and they're all hoppy over every little undulation in the road? Well, the VFR didn't used to be quite that bad, but that's what it reminded me of, with it's stiffer springs but crap damping and worn out fork internals. Tiring.
Annoyingly jiggly ride.

But not any more.
Then I noticed other things....
That strange corner thingie: it was turning the bars into low speed corners.
And there was nothing much happening apart from cornering.
No lateral movement in the fork tubes meant no interference to the steering from mid-corner ripples. Compliant damping meant less pressure required on the inside bar, almost none in fact.

On with the brakes... less dive. Much less dive.
How can that be? It's the same springs, albeit with the preload now set to where it should be, not backed off to give a softer, less jiggly ride.
Ahhh... it's now all working as it should be. It doesn't feel amazing, because all it's doing is what it's supposed to.
No drama, no fuss, no fireworks, nothing much to notice except what's not there.
It's all so relaxing and pleasant. Almost... boring. :confused:
Good suspension is boooorrrrriiiinnnnnng!!! :blink:
Well... the "CKT Racetech" decals are kinda OK, but the rest? Pfffttt!! :sleep:

Here was I, excited about my flashed-up new forks, disappointed because there's no excitement. Well duh...


Tech Stuff
I fitted some uprated springs many moons ago, as that was all I could afford. They're 0.95kg/mm linear rate, as compared to the stock 0.74 progressive rate springs.
CKT refurbished the forks with new seals (I thought I might as well, while it was in the workshop); new bushes (old ones had lost teflon and some of the bushing material); chucked out the old compression piston thingies (yeah, that's a technical term) as the ports were too small, so they didn't cope well with flowing oil when I rode over sharp bumps, and fitted some Racetech Gold Valves. This was mated to a rejigged shim stack so the damping was more betterer; then the whole lot was basted with some shiny new fork oil, presumably made from Swedish baby virgin fur seal whale penguins, and more slippery than Winston Peters. After casting some special arcane and esoteric incantations over the whole lot, they rewrapped it in the crappy bubble wrap I cadged from the furniture folks downstairs, and sent it all back to me quick smart, via the Botany Honda people, who I got to meet for the first time last week.

Thanks to Josh (parts dude at Botany Honda) and Robert Taylor at Crown Kiwi Technical. :niceone:

[Kiwi Graham]

Welcome to ma world mate, best upgrade of a motorcycle in my opinion. Sort the bits that go up and down before you play with the bits that make you go forward or stop. The improvement for the $ is amazing.
Get yourself down to Frosty's on the weekend and Shaun will cast a knowing eye over it for ya and set it up purrrfect :niceone:

[Owl]

Great write-up vifferman!:niceone:

It's something I still need to address on mine. I have over half the money set aside.:yes:

[Stampy]

Pretty pleased with mine also.

[Owl]

Pretty pleased with mine also.

Oh, well that answers my question to you on the other site Stampy (Ferris).:laugh:

[CookMySock]

Good suspension is boooorrrrriiiinnnnnng!!! :blink:Nice write up, vifferman.

I clicked onto this just a little while ago. What would happen if I had great suspension? How would I feel?

It occurred to me, that it would make my bike faster through corners, less bashy on the spine on trips, but also less, um, something to ride.

I don't know if I would call it less interesting to ride. And I don't know if I wanted to go faster. It would be nice if it wasn't so rigid on the square-edged bumps.


Steve

[TerminalAddict]

I'm about 70% happy with my forks/shock

One day I need to find some money, and time to get them tuned.

I bought mine second hand, tuned for somebody else

[Swoop]

and more slippery than Winston Peters.
Now, that is slippery!

[Shaun]

Welcome to ma world mate, best upgrade of a motorcycle in my opinion. Sort the bits that go up and down before you play with the bits that make you go forward or stop. The improvement for the $ is amazing.
Get yourself down to Frosty's on the weekend and Shaun will cast a knowing eye over it for ya and set it up purrrfect :niceone:



Sure will do:Punk:

[Stampy]

Oh, well that answers my question to you on the other site Stampy (Ferris).:laugh:

Haha! Sweet Ferris Better pop over and have a look:laugh::laugh:

[Shaun]

I'm about 70% happy with my forks/shock

One day I need to find some money, and time to get them tuned.

I bought mine second hand, tuned for somebody else

What bike and what suspension parts are in it mate

[TerminalAddict]

What bike and what suspension parts are in it mate

cb900f5

racetecky fork internals
ohlins 46dr in the back (the one without the remote reservoir)

[HenryDorsetCase]

What bike and what suspension parts are in it mate

the forks were set up for me on my 900 Hornet: I cant recall the spring rate but I am (was) <75kg ready to ride so they will be well baggy for anyone heavier.

I'm a fan of this sort of work also. New shocks and fork rebuild were the first big ticket things I had done on the new bike.

[Shaun]

If I can help you at all, bring bike along to the following address this SUNDAY the 2nd
MILLARS CAR CENTRE
25 CORBAN AVENUE
HENDERSON
Sunday 2nd august 2009
From 10 am till Shaun goes home

[vifferman]

Well, duh!
This morning I finally noticed another benefit of the fork overhaul. The VFR had this weird weaving thing going on, where at ~100km/h, it didn't like going in a straight line, but sort of meandered randomly . I had wondered whether it was the suspension, but it seemed to be better when I used a tank bag rather than the Ventura pack, so I'd put it down to being some kind of combination of aerodynamics, weight distribution, and the tread pattern of the Avon Storm on the front.
So, I'm riding towards Albania on the Northern this morning, and I noticed how rock-like the bike felt (yeah, I know it's heavyish, but I was talking about stability). And that's with more rear ride height and spring preload than I had before, PLUS a steeper rake angle/less trail courtesy of the fork tubes being higher in the triples.

This is all Good Stuff.

[Shaun]

Well, duh!
This morning I finally noticed another benefit of the fork overhaul. The VFR had this weird weaving thing going on, where at ~100km/h, it didn't like going in a straight line, but sort of meandered randomly . I had wondered whether it was the suspension, but it seemed to be better when I used a tank bag rather than the Ventura pack, so I'd put it down to being some kind of combination of aerodynamics, weight distribution, and the tread pattern of the Avon Storm on the front.
So, I'm riding towards Albania on the Northern this morning, and I noticed how rock-like the bike felt (yeah, I know it's heavyish, but I was talking about stability). And that's with more rear ride height and spring preload than I had before, PLUS a steeper rake angle/less trail courtesy of the fork tubes being higher in the triples.

This is all Good Stuff.


The fact that you can now directly feal the changes after modification work has been done, really is worth it eh

[vifferman]

The fact that you can now directly feal the changes after modification work has been done, really is worth it eh
To start with, I thought, "Oh... is that it?!?", :mellow: as I was expecting some "Oh wow!!" for all the money I spent. But it's made the bike handle how it should have in the first place. Probably not as well as a well-sorted GSXRxxxx, but probably as well as a VFR could, short of replacing the forks completely, putting it on a diet, and spending lotsa moolah on some trick HRC components.
There's not really anything else I could spend a couple of grand on that would have made as much difference to improving the bike as the suspension mods have.

[Pixie]

To start with, I thought, "Oh... is that it?!?", :mellow: as I was expecting some "Oh wow!!" for all the money I spent. But it's made the bike handle how it should have in the first place. Probably not as well as a well-sorted GSXRxxxx, but probably as well as a VFR could, short of replacing the forks completely, putting it on a diet, and spending lotsa moolah on some trick HRC components.
There's not really anything else I could spend a couple of grand on that would have made as much difference to improving the bike as the suspension mods have.

Have you started looking for corrugated mid-corner seal to ride over yet?

[johan]

Have you started looking for corrugated mid-corner seal to ride over yet?

The golden valves will react quickly enough absorb mid-corner bumps and cracks at full lean. I do it once a lap on my race bike.

They will also support the full weight of the bike under hard breaking while still following high frequency bumps and dips of the track with out any dramas.

The harder you ride the more you appreciate the CKT Race Tech stuff!

[vifferman]

Have you started looking for corrugated mid-corner seal to ride over yet?
:laugh:
I did that when I fitted the Elka rear shock, and yes, I also did it when the forks were upgraded! I'm not sure if I've got the rear set up quite right yet, but it's WAY better than with the stock suspension, which was too softly sprung, and underdamped as well.
The biggest thing is being able to pick lines or change them more easily, as the bike goes where I want it to, and isn't upset by mid-corner bumps or camber changes. The route I used to commute to work on had a weird slow, right-angle corner, with a sort of a bump where the two roads met. Before the Elka was fitted, I used to avoid it, but found I could pretty much ignore it. Going the other way on that route, there's a corner with corrugations and ripples, which I can feel, but the bike doesn't step out or do anything alarming.

[Shaun]

:laugh:
I did that when I fitted the Elka rear shock, and yes, I also did it when the forks were upgraded! I'm not sure if I've got the rear set up quite right yet, but it's WAY better than with the stock suspension, which was too softly sprung, and underdamped as well.
The biggest thing is being able to pick lines or change them more easily, as the bike goes where I want it to, and isn't upset by mid-corner bumps or camber changes. The route I used to commute to work on had a weird slow, right-angle corner, with a sort of a bump where the two roads met. Before the Elka was fitted, I used to avoid it, but found I could pretty much ignore it. Going the other way on that route, there's a corner with corrugations and ripples, which I can feel, but the bike doesn't step out or do anything alarming.


what is the model year of your bike mate

[vifferman]

what is the model year of your bike mate
It's a 2001 VFR800 (RC46). The last year before the Vtec was introduced.

[Pixie]

The golden valves will react quickly enough absorb mid-corner bumps and cracks at full lean. I do it once a lap on my race bike.

They will also support the full weight of the bike under hard breaking while still following high frequency bumps and dips of the track with out any dramas.

The harder you ride the more you appreciate the CKT Race Tech stuff!
I have gold valves and Ohlins on my bandit.I found I started looking for bad surfaces to amaze myself how well the upgrade works.

[vifferman]

I haven't done any highway miles (apart from the short section of motorway I communt on each day), so it'll be interesting how they go on our crappily surfaced main roads.

[Robert Taylor]

I have gold valves and Ohlins on my bandit.I found I started looking for bad surfaces to amaze myself how well the upgrade works.

Indeed, thats exactly what you find yourself doing!

[pritch]

I have gold valves and Ohlins on my bandit.I found I started looking for bad surfaces to amaze myself how well the upgrade works.

Been there, done that :-)

[vifferman]

Amazingly, today was my first ride on the open road. It was kind of an 'uneven' road surface (i.e., your typical backroad NZ highway), and I didn't enjoy it at all. Controlled, but not at all supple.

[Robert Taylor]

Amazingly, today was my first ride on the open road. It was kind of an 'uneven' road surface (i.e., your typical backroad NZ highway), and I didn't enjoy it at all. Controlled, but not at all supple.

If its not as supple as you hoped for we will revalve it foc, everyone has a different expectation and that is what we always strive to accomodate.

[Shaun]

If its not as supple as you hoped for we will revalve it foc, everyone has a different expectation and that is what we always strive to accomodate.


I will be up in Auckland later in the week, and can try some externall mods if required to get it in the range a bit better if reqd by both parties here?

[vifferman]

I'll try it with less preload first, see if that helps. Before the commute this morning, I wound it off one turn and it felt a little more supple, unless I was imagining things. If it's not too wet at lunchtime, I'll do a quick loop in the country and see how it goes.
It doesn't help that I've got a random misfire I'm trying to track down, so I'm having to work out what is suspension and what is engine, but yesterday the lurchy ride was definitely suspension.
Heh... gave some tard a nice wakeup call yesterday. I was on the motorway at Spaghetti Junction, and he stuck his indicator on to change lanes, but didn't do a head check. So... there I was, right next to his door, leaning on the horn button. The Fiamms gave him a hell of a fright.

[Robert Taylor]

I'll try it with less preload first, see if that helps. Before the commute this morning, I wound it off one turn and it felt a little more supple, unless I was imagining things. If it's not too wet at lunchtime, I'll do a quick loop in the country and see how it goes.
It doesn't help that I've got a random misfire I'm trying to track down, so I'm having to work out what is suspension and what is engine, but yesterday the lurchy ride was definitely suspension.
Heh... gave some tard a nice wakeup call yesterday. I was on the motorway at Spaghetti Junction, and he stuck his indicator on to change lanes, but didn't do a head check. So... there I was, right next to his door, leaning on the horn button. The Fiamms gave him a hell of a fright.

I have just twigged what is going on here. When you sent the forks to us it already had Race Tech springs in it ( .95s ) that you had obviously selected off the Race Tech search but very often their recommendations are too aggressive. But everyone is different, a rider of the same height and weight as you may hop on the bike and love the feel of it.
But given what you say it is almost certain that you need to go down in spring rate to 9s to get the extra compliance you are looking for. Send me an e-mail, we may be able to do a friendly exchange as whats in it currently will be useful to me.
There is a message here that I am happy to brazenly state, local puchase, local backup....

[vifferman]

I have just twigged what is going on here. When you sent the forks to us it already had Race Tech springs in it ( .95s ) that you had obviously selected off the Race Tech search but very often their recommendations are too aggressive.
Actually, they're Sonic Springs, but their spring rate calculator seems based on the Racetech one, and I thought at the time maybe 0.95s were one grade too firm. I'd hoped the overhaul and revalving would somehow miraculously fix things. :blink:
Before the overhaul, I'd been running with less preload to compensate for the shitty front end.


There is a message here that I am happy to brazenly state, local puchase, local backup....
It's one I'd endorse too, now that I have the wisdom that comes from experience, after taking the seemingly more expedient/cheaper route of giving in to the lure of the goodies on offer over Teh Interdweeb. :Oops:

I must make it perfectly clear (which it probably isn't from the last couple of posts) that I have no beef with Robert Taylor or CKT. They've done a sterling job with my forks. I opted for a budget approach, and bought a rear shock as part of an American VFR forum group buy, which 'saved' me $250 on what it would have cost if I'd purchased a custom-fettled Ohlins from CKT. The 'savings' were then spent on springs and fork oil.
If I'd been able to justify taking my bike to CKT and getting Robert to sort the whole thing (which I may have to do anyway), I'm positive it would be perfectly set up for me and the riding I do.
Now I'm having to backtrack a bit and get Robert to sort stuff I could've got him to do straight off. :o

[vifferman]

Got my forks back yesterday morning, after them languishing for nearly a week at CKT from when I rushed them down by courier to get them fixed before Robert went to Sweden. :Oops:
Threw a few more ShekelDollars at them, and they now have 0.90 kg/mm Ohlins springs, rejiggety shim stack and valving (I'm just guessing here - I have no idea), and new SuperDuperSpecialSlippery Ohlins fork oil to replace the fortnight old stuff. The new oil is presumably made from the finest Afghani Lesbian Baby FurSealPenguinWhales (cold pressed, of course). It'd have to be, wooden tit, at more'n $50/litre :eek5: ?

Alas (alack!) I'm so freakin' tired this morning that I couldn't trust my increasingly crappy mechanicking skills to a wet-weather communt in Friday traffic, so I've no idea how the New! Improved! Now with fresh oil and added Ohlins! forks comport themselves, but I will report back when I get a chance. (I know you're all waiting anxiously for the next exciting instalment....)

[Owl]

Yeah, so hurry up!:msn-wink:

[vifferman]

Awrighty... so I hurried (albeit in a languid sort of way, giving the impression there was no haste whatsoever).
Today I couldn't stand being stuck inside, and the Mutant Toglodyte Spawn + SemiRetard Friend all talking loudly at the same time, so I gridded my lions and hastened forth (fifth, even!) into the world.
"Crikey!" thought Myself (or non-word thoughts to that effect) "This is a rather soft-feeling feeling these here New! Improved!! Now with Extra Plushness and 3 vitamins!! forks have. :blink:
Comfy but. (And comfy butt).
Feels a bit more vagurerer than they did - less "sharp edeged weapon" like, and more "blunt trauma weapon in a sock".
Well... not treeely. But definitely different.
After a few killer meters, I got used to it, and headed for somewhere I was sure there'd be Shitty Roadsurfaces, and sure enough, there were.

Good, goood...
Yup, muchly improved, and More Betterer. :niceone:
But (however!) the rear shock needed some dialing in, so I picked a length of road, and rode it 5 or so times, each time adjusting this thing or t'other, until I thinked it was better, but mostly got more confused.

Ach wheel...

So I retraced my path from the other week, albeit in reverse fashion, and discovered that things were indeed Much Improved. Not at all tiresome or annoyingly jiggly.

Many thanks to the techs at CKT. :niceone:

Now... I've just gotta work out how to calibrate my arse so I can use it to dial in my rear shock, properly.
Or, alternatively, borrow someone else's calibrated arse.

[Robert Taylor]

Awrighty... so I hurried (albeit in a languid sort of way, giving the impression there was no haste whatsoever).
Today I couldn't stand being stuck inside, and the Mutant Toglodyte Spawn + SemiRetard Friend all talking loudly at the same time, so I gridded my lions and hatened forth (fifth, even!) into the world.
"Crikey!" thought Myself (or non-word thoughts to that effect) "This is a rather soft-feeling feeling these here New! Improved!! Now with Extra Plushness and 3 vitamins!! forks have.:blink:
Comfy but. (And comfy butt).
Feels a bit more vagurerer than they did - less "sharp edeged weapon" like, and more "blunt trauma weapon in a sock".
Well... not treeely. But definitely different.
After a few killer meters, I got used to it, and headed for somewhere I was sure there'd be Shitty Roadsurfaces, and sure enough, there were.

Good, goood...
Yup, muchly improved, and More Betterer. :niceone:
But (however!) the rear shock needed some dialing in, so I picked a length of raod, and rode it 5 or so times, each time adjusting this thing or t'other, until I thinked it was better, but mostly got more confused.

Ach wheel...

So I retraced my path from the other week, albeit in reverse fashion, and discovered that things were indeed Much Improved. Not at all tiresome or annoyingly jiggly.

Many thanks to the techs at CKT. :niceone:

Now... I've just gotta work out how to calibrate my arse so I can use it to dial in my rear shock, properly.
Or, alternatively, borrow someone else's calibrated arse.

Thanks for that! As illuminated via e-mail I think its likely that the Elka shock is overdamped or oversprung or both. When they first entered the market they built ATV shocks only and they suffered from over aggressive settings as delivered. The ''bones'' of these are not too bad, but like any shock absorber ( including my beloved Scandinavian brand ) they are only as good as the settings are for the road conditions they are used in.Thats where a full understanding of the local market and local backup comes into play. Although given that a lot of the technology in these shocks is a close copy of Ohlins recalibrating the settings should not be too difficult ( I have the inside story and have spoken to the guy that started all this )
An interesting reason why these are built in Canada is that they get financial assistance from the Canadian Government, the Elka project first hatched in the USA.

[vifferman]

After doing more riding, the Elka doesn't seem too bad (although I've a suspicion you may be right about oversprung/overdamped - if so, it's not humungously so). I'm also starting to get used to the front end being more plush and less precise as far as steering input is concerned, than it was in its previous incarnation.
Might have to go for a blat this afternoon and see how it fares.