Any advice re digital cameras?

[LB]

.
.
Just before our South Island Soujourn, the "idiot-proof" point-and-shoot conventional film camera died. Bought a couple of disposables to have some memories.

Am now about to seriously look for a digital. We did have a look while we were away in a few shops, and figure there's a couple of things on the priority list:

- at least 10x zoom (wouldn't use it much but good to have for the times you want it)

- probably around 5 megapixels (just because)

- easy to use (those who know me will understand why)

Brand doesn't really matter, though had a not-too-good experience with an Olympus so would probably steer clear.

Price is kind of irrelevant - I don't want to buy a cheap simple one then in three month's time want more features and wish I'd spent the extra $$$.

Main photos would be of scenery with the bike in, also some action photos at race meetings.

At this stage the Panasonic DMC FZ20 is looking pretty good. RRP is $1299, but LV Martin currently have it on special at $999 with a free 256 card.

The Canon Powershot S1 IS was a frontrunner at one stage, but has only 3.2mp. Also one shop told us Canons are very costly to fix if they break down (they said that you can either pay $99 for the camera to be looked at and then pay whatever it costs to fix, or pay $700 to get it fixed, regardless of what the problem is....the second option doesn't sound good value to me!)

Any thoughts/comments would be good.

I have looked on www.dpreview.com and there's some good stuff on there.

(Obviously if there were Ducati cameras available I would already have purchased one and would not be posting this thread, but despite numerous sessions with the Ducati Accessories Catalogue, and calls to Bologna, I have come to the conclusion that I cannot have a Ducati camera. Of course whatever camera I end up getting will get a Ducati sticker slapped on it.)
.
.

[What?]

Hi Lynda,
The camera you saw me with at Puke is a Kodak DX6490. It has 4MP and 10X lens. Is very easy to use. The next model up is 5MP, but really you won't notice much difference in picture quality between them. Dick Smith is probably the best place to go to look at these.
Kodak use SD memory cards, which are nice and small. Buy your memory upgrade from: www.flashcards.co.nz These guys are really helpful and their prices are brilliant. Make sure you get a high speed card. I got a 512Mb 60x SD card for $98 - about half DSE's price.

[jazbug5]

Try these (I'm sure you've looked on the net already, but the first, especially, is a pretty good review site).

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/
http://www.digitalcamera-hq.com/

Have fun!

[wari]

MY Advice is dont drop kickitt upda road ... trust me ondis one ... :yeah:

SEE ... (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=5975)

[louisb]

In my experence in digital cameras, (part of my job is buying them) Canon have always been the best. Canon have fantastic lenses, build quality is usually very good. They've been making cameras longer than most other manufactures. If you can stretch to a powershot G6 You'll have a very good camera for a long time.

Stay away from Sony, image quality is only good on their prosumer models. You might get a big mega pixel camera cheap, but you pay for what you get.

[wkid_one]

Konica Minolta Z2-5 are a good option. I find the Canon digital range too plastic.

Pixel size is really only a factor in the maximum size of the printed picture.....rather than absolute quality. The Pixel Size is the same as your screen - ie 1024 x 768 = 1mpix. Quality only becomes an issue if you wish to blow the picture up from a lower pixel camera above its maximum size.

Also - go for the highest OPTICAL zoom you can get.....avoid looking at digital zoom - as this just enhances the picture rather than a mechanical zoom through the lens' settings.

Try and get a digital camera than looks like a SLR with a typical SLR lens as these produce better pictures than the 'credit card' and 'handbag' type cameras - and usually have higher quality lens'.

Don't forget to factor in the cost of a SD/MMC/Memory Stick as the camera will only come with internal memory which is next to useless. You will want at least 128mb, I would suggest with 4mpix cameras and over 256mb would be minimum. You will also need to factor in a camera case.

[Krayy]

One thing I would add to Wkid's advice regarding SLR-like vs handbag is to think about how you will use it. I have an SLR type digital (Fuji S602z) which takes fantastic shots, albeit not in low light, but portability is an issue, as it is quite bulky. I have to tote in around in a proper camera bag, rather than just slipping it into my pocket, and even hanging round the neck is a bit of a chore if you're on the move lots, like tramping. And if I take the DV camera as well, I could easily end up strangling myself. I might even be tempted to look at one of the cameras that have the over/under lenses for stills/DV in the future.

That been said, I'd rather have it's 6x optical zoom than the 2.5x you normally get with a pocket camera, and the feature set is pretty good too.

[merv]

Backing up what Wkid says, optical zoom is the way and you've mentioned the target of 10x anyway so you are on the right track.

The megapixels I haven't worried about too much either because I do only take my pics at 1024x768 as I mainly only look at them on screen and at that resoultion they print fine on 6x4 paper (except the shape is a bit wrong - computer screen 1024x768 is 1.33 to 1 ratio whereas 6x4 print photos are 1.5 to 1 dimension - my camera will shoot at 1.5 to 1 but only at higher resolutions). Mine is a 4mp Olympus 10x zoom - not your favourite brand, but at the time I bought it, it was about the most compact 10x I could buy. At 1024x768 you fit over 600 photos on a 128mb card - I carry a spare 128mb card but have never had to use it as I've normally downloaded the photos before I hit 600 anyway.

Quality at that pixel rate is as per this http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5713 which you remember I took while standing quite a distance from you.

[Drunken Monkey]

There are some good in-depth reviews at http://www.dpreview.com

Don't get too caught up in 'optical zoom', cameras with long zoom lenses tend to not go wide enough, although these days you can take a string of pics and stitch them together easily with Panorama Maker.

As louisb syas, Canon is usually the dux nutz, but I wouldn't say the 'image quality' of Sony consumer level cameras was bad as such, but they do skew the colours (RANT:just like a mini lab does, f**K I hate those monkeys that screw up your photos as mini-labs, but that's just the photo-wanker in me from having easy access to a pro-lab) to make them appear brighter than 'true colour' (it tends towards red or green, someone with more knowledge than me can probably tell ya). I think a lot of consumer level cameras are doing this now. (I'm not recommending a Sony here though!)
This doesn't mean you should dismiss other well known brands like Konica/Minolta or Nikkon. I've used Minoltas pretty much all my life.

Also be aware that 10x optical (usually around '350mm equivalent') is quite a zoom indeed - pretty hard to take good shots, especially without a high shutter speed to match, at max zoom without some form of stabilisation.

Eeek, I'm talking too much now. I'll shut up.

PS - I use a Minolta DiMage A1, I like it 'cos it goes wider than most (it's a 28-200 equiv.)

[curious george]

http://www.stevesforums.com/forums had great forums for whatever camera you buy, and http://www.steves-digicams.com/best_cameras.html will have the best camera in whatever catagory you choose.
Apart from the lens, the ccd is the next most important thing to getting a good image.
Not all are created equal, in size or in quality.
As an example, I would rather have a 4Mp camera than a 5Mp if the ccd was the same size.

I brought the Panasonic FZ20 and I am very happy with it.
12x optical zoom, 2.8 f stop throughout the zoom range!! Leica lens, larg ccd, very quick shutter time.

No real downsides, I would buy it again if his one was lost/damaged.
The only possible complaint is to use any filters, you need the supplied adapter, (which is huge) or get one of these http://www.pemaraal.com/fz10ac.html I ordered one from ther states, got it in about 5 days!

It has a fully manual mode if you want, and full auto for 'point and shoot'.
Incredably easy to use with great results.
Battery life is excellent too.
I paid $1000 on the nose and that was with a 1Gb SD card.

Awesome value for money, unless you go for a flash SLR and several lenses, you wont beat the FZ20 package.

If you want more info, I've done heaps of homework for this, only too happy to share.

Ohh, one more thing... it's got this 'anit-shake' thing which works really well.
The mechanism is similar to the one Canon use.
Even fully zoomed, it's possible to get shots with no camera shake, thy doing that with any other non slr camea!

[MSTRS]

I use a Sony P93 5mp camera in my work. It has 3x optical which for me is any amount. As others have said, on max zoom the old hand shake is impossible to control without some form of stabilisation. I find the Sony great, it has a strong metal body, it is light & compact & takes a brilliant photo. I use it on highest resolution, which gives a photo size of 2592x1944 @ 2mb approx. Fast CPU too. I used it for these shots. 1 taken at night from about 2 metres. 2 taken at Paeroa of F1 out of hairpin. I hope they are crisp enough because I had to reduce them for upload

[TwoSeven]

Depends on if you want a cheap digi cam to take holiday snaps or if you want ot produce good quality photos.

For the latter you want an SLR that is capable of using normal lenses (so you can interchange). Cannon has a good one for about $2k (you can get the kit form for half the price if you have your own lenses).

Try to avoid digicams that take movies or show real time images on the display at the back. They tend use a different lower quality (Video camera) CCD.

[Skunk]

One thing no-one has mentioned is the rapid shot. Good for bike pics. Check out on dpreview.com in the in depth reports.
The Kodak DX6490 I had was too slow. (I say had because it died at 15 months of age - will cost nearly the same to replace as repair).

Looking at Nikon D70 or Canon 300D or 20D to replace it with but they are full SLR's - therefore big. (Also looking at Olympus.)

Two cameras is the way to go. Small and slim and a big and powerfull.

[James Deuce]

Make sure that you get one that lets you watermark every shot with "Ducati" in the correct font, or better still, one with "Ducati" etched on to the lower left of the lens.

[dveus]

Looking at Nikon D70 or Canon 300D or 20D to replace it with but they are full SLR's - therefore big. (Also looking at Olympus.)



The only thing I have noticed with the 300D is the lense that comes in there "kit" is rather poor. Seems to be just whatever they had lying around that would at least allow the camera to be used straight off the shelf. Once the lense has been changed it is a great camera, but will take alot of fiddling to get the shots just how you want them. The RAW format shots are amazing, for a now $1400 camera I think you'd be hard pressed to beat it.

[Skunk]

The only thing I have noticed with the 300D is the lense that comes in there "kit" is rather poor. Seems to be just whatever they had lying around that would at least allow the camera to be used straight off the shelf. Once the lense has been changed it is a great camera, but will take alot of fiddling to get the shots just how you want them. The RAW format shots are amazing, for a now $1400 camera I think you'd be hard pressed to beat it.Very true. The D70 kit isn't much better (friend got the kit but swapped out the lens). But for the price they are good deals.

[NordieBoy]

Another Fuji S602z user here.
But I still have my 1999 vintage Sony FD-95 for when I just have to have 14x optical zoom and am doing action shots :cool:

[Krusti]

Or...I have a Canon G1..has been a good digi but for our Sth Is trip I used my SLR and got pics on CD when developed. Digital is good but I missed the quality of normal 35mm pics.

[vifferman]

Wow! Lots of good advice here.

I don't have much to add, except write down your priorities, and then see what's available that matches them, and see what you're prepared to sacrifice for cost or convenience. Like if you want photo-quality images, you'll need 6 megapixels at least, but need more storage. Plus bigger images are hard to send over the interweb. If you want a really good quality camera, then you may have to sacrifice compactness to some degree.

Take a look too at usability - some cameras have stupid features that you don't think about before you use them for a while. F'rinstance - fiddly knobs/switches, need rechargeable batteries, memory cards are proprietary and expensive, etc.
My sister-in-law recently bought a Sony better'n mine, and at first I thought, "Wow! This is a great camera." But there are some dumb features: the flash is a popup one, and is right where you would normally put your fingers when holding it... Not something you'd think of in the shop.

I have a Canon EOS1000FN SLR (non-digital), so if I bought another camera, I'd get a Canon of some sort so I could use the lenses with it. There are some 'older' model Canons for sale at $1200-$1500 now, so I'd love to get one - they used to be anything up to $6K when they first came out.

FWIW, I bought a 100-300 zoom at Cash Converters for stuff all, so cameras with interchangable lenses don't have to be expensive. There's HEAPS of stuff for sale secondhand, both digital and conventional.

My digital is a Sony - my wife listened to what I said I wanted in a digital camera, and bought it for me duty free after I told her not to buy me anything overseas. :love:
It's waaaay outdated now, but still meets my criteria: it's compact, so I can stick it in my jacket pocket when we go for a ride; it has 3X optical zoom; it is very easy to use; the resolution isn't super-duper high, so the images don't require heaps of memory; if you turn the screen off to save battery life, the viewer shows exactly what the photo will look like even when zoomed; the lithium battery lasts for ages, and to recharge it is very simple and quick. Downsides: the memory sticks are expensive, resolution is low c.f. what's available now for less money, the viewscreen is a bit small.

[Skunk]

Like if you want photo-quality images, you'll need 6 megapixels at least,6MP! That should be good for A3 prints IMHO.
I think 4MP is good enough for *most* uses, but there is no harm in getting more MP.
Of course you will need more storage... :shake:

[vifferman]

6MP! That should be good for A3 prints IMHO.
I think 4MP is good enough for *most* uses, but there is no harm in getting more MP.
Of course you will need more storage... :shake:
It was just a guess...
I was talking really good photo quality. Plus my son (who knows everything, and has a brain the size of the Moon) says that from a software point of view, you just can't physically render colours properly with an image size of 4 megapixels, as some shortcuts are taken with storing the information.

[Lou Girardin]

I've got a Fuji S5000, now superseded by the S5500. 4 meg, 10x zoom, very good battery life. It's just a little large, definitely not a pocket camera. Quite cheap now too. I got mine from Parallel Imported.

[Skunk]

...says that from a software point of view, you just can't physically render colours properly with an image size of 4 megapixels, as some shortcuts are taken with storing the information.Aaah, that has more to do with the jpg compression. The MP has nothing to do with it. The cheaper cameras can tend towards heavier compression.

The RAW format has zero compression and 16 bit colour depth. 8 bit colour depth is normal for most printing processes.

Unless the compression is high the colours will not be affected too much.
The images are stored in RGB which has a wide gamut too.

Just thinking... maybe he means that a 'cheap' CCD is more likely to be used?

[FEINT]

Very true. The D70 kit isn't much better (friend got the kit but swapped out the lens). But for the price they are good deals.

The D70 is a very well priced package! I am using the D70 with a Nikkor 18-70mm lens and also a 70-300mm lens.

SLR's will never be CONVENIENT where you can fit them in your purse / bag etc... THere are quite a few cameras out there, but with 10X zoom, you are really cutting down your choices.

Another thing to look at is response / speed of the camera. Most cameras will LAG. Which is annoying if you are buying the camera for taking photos of motorbikes hooning :)

hope that helps.!

[LB]

.
.

Thanks for all the feedback guys'n gals. Much appreciated.

www.dpreview.com is a great site - recommend it to anyone who's looking at getting a digital, particularly if like me you don't know much (anything!!) about them.

We've bitten the bullet and bought the Panasonic FZ20. Have charged the battery and we're now playing with it (even as I speak, at this early hour of the morning, Hamish is sitting in the lounge with me, with regular "beeps" coming from the camera as he fiddles with it!!)

We decided that smallness wasn't an issue.

Got a really good deal from Wellington Photographic Supplies in Vivian Street - $999 which included a 256 card and a swish camera bag that fits all the accessories in as well as the camera. Big ups for WPS - they were really helpful. (RRP is $1299)

It's got a 12x optical zoom, and 5mp. HEAPS of features that we'll have to figure out how to use, but it also does "point and shoot".

Curious George: I may well contact you at some stage to discuss finer details - thanks for the offer.

Jim2: I got the special lens version with the laser etching.

.
.

[curious george]

w00t! Good choice of camera!
I'm away at Taupo this weekend, but http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam/ and http://www.users.bigpond.com/vkelim/DMCFZ10/index.html and http://www.dcresource.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=26 are some further links if you have any questions.
For the FZ10, read FZ20. There is not a lot of difference between the two.
I can gt spare batteries for about $30, UV filters for about $20 and http://www.photo.co.nz is another local shop to consider filters from.
The Marumi seem pretty good value imho.
Look forward to some pics!

[merv]

So now Lynda it will be you posting pics of us on KB instead of just us embarrassing you.

[wkid_one]

Ijust bought Dimage Z3 this weekend - much the same camera