How to kill yourself with brake cleaner

[Pedrostt500]

For all of us that either weld for a job or for a hobbie, hopefully this link works,
http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm

I work in the Engineering industry, and wouldnt of thought about this untill reading this artical.

[Qkchk]

Pretty scary shit.

[BiK3RChiK]

Flamin heck! Bling diddly bling! Thanks for the heads up Pedro.. That's some serious shet...

[CookMySock]

Oops. Thanks for the heads-up.

Steve

[Pedrostt500]

Yea i've done it in the past but must have got away with it by good luck than good management.

[zxr400#150]

Holly crap!!!

[Gareth51]

So many stupid warnings these days we tend not to read or understand the important ones

[Kiwi Graham]

Got to be honest, skim read at best any warning labels. Thanks for the heads up.

[p.dath]

Here's a good one. Mix brake fluid and chlorine in powder form (as you would in a swimming pool). Wait around 30s. And then observe the explosion.

Only do about 30ml of each to begin with until you've blown a few things up, or watched the resulting fireball.

[cs363]

Wow! :gob: That's very handy to know, you'd think they'd make the warning label a tad bolder, makes cigarettes look a bit tame....

[dino3310]

fark thats some freaky shit when you consider how many of us use brake cleaner in the garage or workshop

[Squiggles]

Bleach... Toilets

[Brian d marge]

bored

hes American , the roads are big , the cars are big the symptoms are big ,,,

as uncle choppa would say HTFU

next they will be saying something stupid like Asbestos causes headaches


Stephen :sick:

[gatch]

Should have read the label before he started.. The warnings are there for a reason..

[Pedrostt500]

Should have read the label before he started.. The warnings are there for a reason..

Yes they are there for a reason but how offten are they over looked, and offten the chemical compistions for some products you need to have a dotorate of chemistery to understand, as Argon is the comon inert gas or part make up of gasses used, when TIG or MIG welding, knowing that adding heat and Argon to common break cleaner, would make a leathal cocktail of gasses, is not some thing the average person would know.

[Pedrostt500]

bored

hes American , the roads are big , the cars are big the symptoms are big ,,,

as uncle choppa would say HTFU

next they will be saying something stupid like Asbestos causes headaches


Stephen :sick:

I don't mind an American being a Geunie Pig, but would like to keep a few Kiwi's alive so they don't make the same mistake. But if you would like to prove yourself as a hard man be my geust and take a good snort of Phosgene gas.

[fliplid]

Not nice stuff!

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/phosgene/basics/facts.asp

[Naki Rat]

So many stupid warnings these days we tend not to read or understand the important ones


Wow! :gob: That's very handy to know, you'd think they'd make the warning label a tad bolder, makes cigarettes look a bit tame....

Spot on Gareth51, as cs363's post would confirm. It only takes a look at any product or machine imported from the USA to see the ridiculous level of warnings that are now commonplace due largely to their thriving liability litigation industry.

Example here is the increasing practice of company and other vehicles driving with headlights permanently on. It loses its effect when everybody does it, so do we then install roof beacons on all vehicles?

How about we start reimposing common sense and self responsibility?

[Brian d marge]

I don't mind an American being a Geunie Pig, but would like to keep a few Kiwi's alive so they don't make the same mistake. But if you would like to prove yourself as a hard man be my geust and take a good snort of Phosgene gas.
I am not coming out of the office.... that's what Americans are for , I ll take the lost earning out of their pay !

you wonder why a few more haven't been poisoned
if it was that easy to do?

Stephen

[Pixie]

Yes they are there for a reason but how offten are they over looked, and offten the chemical compistions for some products you need to have a dotorate of chemistery to understand, as Argon is the comon inert gas or part make up of gasses used, when TIG or MIG welding, knowing that adding heat and Argon to common break cleaner, would make a leathal cocktail of gasses, is not some thing the average person would know.

Sometimes you even need to be literate and to spell well.

I note that the idiot who poisoned himself implied that clear non-pungent urine was a bad thing,and not just a result of being well hydrated.
But,then,I suppose he'd never been in that state before.

[tri boy]

Good post/thread pedrostt500.
Making such dangers aware to home mechanics, and professionals is wise.
I once suffered quite a bad reaction from gas cutting galanised piping, (large culverts that needed trimming) when I was younger. Not pleasant.

[The Stranger]

Yes they are there for a reason but how offten are they over looked, and offten the chemical compistions for some products you need to have a dotorate of chemistery to understand, as Argon is the comon inert gas or part make up of gasses used, when TIG or MIG welding, knowing that adding heat and Argon to common break cleaner, would make a leathal cocktail of gasses, is not some thing the average person would know.


Fark, pretty freaky. Yesterday I had to mig weld in an engine bay covered in oil. Cleaned it up with brake cleaner first. Being it was an engine bay I ensured it was thoroughly free of brake cleaner before proceeding, fark you never know what could have been eh?

[Motu]

Most brake cleaners these days don't contain that stuff...but it pays to read the label.We stopped using that stuff when they gave warnings about birth defects.For the past 10 years or more I have been using bulk brake cleaner,and spraying with a Sureshot - it's just Stodard Solvent...Britolite,Shellite or some other brand.Still,I don't often clean oil off what I'm welding,the heat will do that.

I've breathed in heaps of zinc fumes from welding galv,and I remember the sweet taste of lead doing valve grinds.Not often I get the sweet taste these days,but it's a wake up call if I do - you can't see the lead,but you can taste it.Kids can too - that's why they used to eat lead based paint.

About 20 years ago we got warnings about brake cyl cups - if you burn then it turns into some sort of acid that never stops....goes right through to the bone and keeps going....

[marty]

how, as a welder, would you not know this?

heat vs chemicals, it's all bad for you.

[lb99]

while soldering something (a new pipe maybe :innocent:) using the electric stove as a heat source, I spilled some Duzzel on the element, and copped a lung full of smoke from it.
I thought it was all over that day, instantly puked my guts and collapsed on the floor, whole body seemed dead, I felt soo sick for a few minutes, almost called an ambo....

[AllanB]

Good post.

Super glue is another bad one if used to temporarily hold metal together while welding. Lots of smoke from a small drop and it contains arsenic in it.

[klingon]

while soldering something (a new pipe maybe :innocent:) using the electric stove as a heat source, I spilled some Duzzel on the element, and copped a lung full of smoke from it.
I thought it was all over that day, instantly puked my guts and collapsed on the floor, whole body seemed dead, I felt soo sick for a few minutes, almost called an ambo....

This is the bit that gets me... you almost called an ambo? And the guy in the linked story had all kinds of neurological and other symptoms for days and days before he got checked out?!

Crikey, if I was suffering even one of those symptoms I would be off to the doctor quick as I could. I think that might be the real lesson here!

[Ixion]

Chemistry's a bit dicky. Argon is an inert gas. Doesn't react with anything at room temperatures and pressures. Not implicated at all.

Any organochloride (chloroform, dry cleaning fluid, brake cleaner) will react in the presence of heat and oxygen to produce some amount of phosgene , COCl2. The reaction will be accelrated by ultra violet radiation (profusely produced by an arc welder, it's what gives you arc eye).

Phosgene's nasty stuff. As in , dead. Best not to go there .

The Duzall is a different thing. Hydrochloic acid and zinc chloride. When heated the HCl breaks down to release chlorine gas Cl2. Nasty , but not as nasty as phosgene. Just rots your lungs in large doses. But if you're on your feet enough to call an ambo you don't need one. HTFU.

I chlorinated myself liberally today with hypochlorite, same reaction. Fortunately chlorine doesn't have much effect on me (Sulphur dioxide is another matter - if I'm ever around that stuff call the ambo *now* - I worked with all these things for years).

Zinc fumes are not good for you, but not real bad. What *is* bad is that the galvanizing metal usually contains small amounts of cadmium and antomony. Those are **real** bad . Dead, bad. Which is why welding galvanized metal is a bit dodgy. Though I done it many times, and I only died a few times.

You sometimes encounter cadmium plated articles (nuts and bolts especially). Looks like zinc plating , but duller and a more even "battleship" grey. Don't try to weld or heat anything with cadmium on it. Just DON'T, OK?

[Ixion]

About 20 years ago we got warnings about brake cyl cups - if you burn then it turns into some sort of acid that never stops....goes right through to the bone and keeps going....

Early forms of teflon. Teflon is a fluoro polymer. Contains fluorine. Like chlorine but a zillion times worse (yep, same fluorine they put in our water. Nice ) . In the presence of heat the organfluorines break down to form hydrofluoric acid. Which, as you note, just keeps on dissolving. Dissolving you that is. No way to stop it other than immediate amputation. Only thing worse is plutonium.

[Brett]

Shit that is a bit scary. I must admit I am often guilty of not reading the warnings on cans etc. 4ppm is nothing, yet could be a fatal dose...wonder wat shit could go down with other chemicals....

[The Stranger]

This is the bit that gets me... you almost called an ambo? And the guy in the linked story had all kinds of neurological and other symptoms for days and days before he got checked out?!

Crikey, if I was suffering even one of those symptoms I would be off to the doctor quick as I could. I think that might be the real lesson here!

It's a male thing. If you're still conscious it can't be too bad - unless you have man flu that is.

It's like the bends. The decompression chamber gets busiest on a Monday. All the numb nuts (yours truly) who get bent on a Saturday refuse to accept it until they have a splitting head ache, can't walk and are puking on Monday - even though you know you fucked up when you have to sleep in the foetal position on Saturday night. It'll go away - given time, harden up.

Or you have a wall fall on you at work breaking a bone in your back. I would have killed anyone that call an ambo - well if I could have moved I would have. It's ok, I can still feel my toes - it's not that bad - is it? No fuss.

[p.dath]

Fark, pretty freaky. Yesterday I had to mig weld in an engine bay covered in oil. Cleaned it up with brake cleaner first. Being it was an engine bay I ensured it was thoroughly free of brake cleaner before proceeding, fark you never know what could have been eh?

You were probably lucky. They said the concentration only needs to be 4 parts per million to be dangerous.
Sounds like mixing break cleaner and heat is just too dangerous to risk.

[YellowDog]

This thread has prompted me to alert someone who is just about to weld his cracked sump.

Most safety warnings are common sense bollox.

This one may well be a real lifesaver.

[vifferman]

Good post.

Super glue is another bad one if used to temporarily hold metal together while welding. Lots of smoke from a small drop and it contains arsenic in it.
Close, but not quite.
Superglue is cyano-acrylate, so it contains a cyanide compound.

It's a wonder I'm still alive. In the early '80s I was doing some lab work separating sediments into heavy and light minerals using tetrabromoethane, which we then washed with acetone and dried on filter paper in cabinet dryers vented into the lab. Lovely sweet smell - very pleasant. Then they found out that seven geologists somewhere else had died from doing the same thing, so they shifted the dryers to another lab, and vented them into fume cupboards. A bit late then, after we'd been doing the work for weeks. :blink:
The tetrabromoethane is a very heavy liquid, so when ingested or inhaled, it accumulates in the tissues of the body, especially your organs and brain. If the toxic fumes don't kill you, you could end up with nervous system failure or die of liver failure or cancer.
Yay.

Not as lethal as phosgene, I guess, but still not the best.

[Danae]

inhale a bit of random smoke, have a seizure and instead of going to hospital he browses google and leaves it at that, even after the "delayed effects" warning...

[Pedrostt500]

The advice to any one gas cutting or welding anything Galvanised, is to drink lots of milk, and keep ya head out of the smoke as much as possible, wear a fume mask if you have one.

[klingon]

... Then they found out that seven geologists somewhere else had died from doing the same thing...

Meh. Who would miss seven geologists anyway? Dime-a-dozen...

[The Pastor]

Yes they are there for a reason but how offten are they over looked, and offten the chemical compistions for some products you need to have a dotorate of chemistery to understand, as Argon is the comon inert gas or part make up of gasses used, when TIG or MIG welding, knowing that adding heat and Argon to common break cleaner, would make a leathal cocktail of gasses, is not some thing the average person would know.
but it is something a welder should know.

[The Pastor]

but yeah nine days he toughed it out after having a seziure etc, what a man.

[cs363]

but it is something a welder should know.

Something a welder should know for sure, but welding equipment is so cheap now that many a home handy man has a welder in his shed, so it's good to get this info out there.

[RantyDave]

How about we start reimposing common sense and self responsibility?
Common sense? Is it really common to know that brake cleaner decomposes into phosgene in the presence of loads and loads of ultra violet? That (according to Mr Ixion and I believe him) pretty much any organowhatsithingy can go completely fucking Wilfred Owen on you without so much as a moment's notice because I had no idea.

Next you'll be telling me my stockpile of smoke detectors is a nuclear hazard. Sheesh!

Dave

[imdying]

you wonder why a few more haven't been poisonedI suspect the brake cleaners we have here don't contain those chemicals.


About 20 years ago we got warnings about brake cyl cups - if you burn then it turns into some sort of acid that never stops....goes right through to the bone and keeps going....Yeah, calcium gluconate injections are the only way to stop it, it's nasty shite.


while soldering something (a new pipe maybe :innocent:) using the electric stove as a heat source, I spilled some Duzzel on the element, and copped a lung full of smoke from it.
I thought it was all over that day, instantly puked my guts and collapsed on the floor, whole body seemed dead, I felt soo sick for a few minutes, almost called an ambo....Wusss! Duzzal smells lovely :D


Any organochloride (chloroform, dry cleaning fluid, brake cleaner) will react in the presence of heat and oxygen to produce some amount of phosgene , COCl2. The reaction will be accelrated by ultra violet radiation (profusely produced by an arc welder, it's what gives you arc eye).

Phosgene's nasty stuff. As in , dead. Best not to go there .Chlorine gas isn't it?

[Madmax]

I worked as a specialist welder for a while
had an air supply hose fail while welding 6inch plate
on a automatic multy mig system using co2
co2 when welding gives of carbon monoxide and ozone
did no know until my head felt like it was splitting apart
ozone is worse than monoxide
decompression chamber for me!
methanol is not to shit hot for you ether
:blink:

[Ixion]

Chlorine gas isn't it?

Chemically, chlorine PLUS carbon monoxide! Both very very nasty, but the combination is nastier than either.

The Duzall example is 'just' chlorine, why it's not so serious.

[imdying]

Chemically, chlorine PLUS carbon monoxide! Both very very nasty, but the combination is nastier than either.Phosgene is mustard gas then?

[Ixion]

Off the top of my head, I think so.

EDIT. Looked it up. No, mustard gas is, strictly, 1,5-dichloro-3-thiapentane. Thio means it contains sulphur. (ClCH₂CH₂)₂S.

But the term was used rather loosely during the Great War for any nasty chemical gas weapon. Understandably during a gas attack, those involved had other priorities than chemical analysis of what was killing them

Phosgene was certainly used as a gas weapon during the Great War (and maybe since by assorted BadMans)

[ready4whatever]

all that from a tiny drop of it and a small puff of smoke. that is some dangerous shit

[lb99]

Wusss! Duzzal smells lovely :D



It does smell great, but fuck it made me sick. have you seen what that shit does to tinfoil?