MG Cali front suspension travel?

[MotoKuzzi]

The theoretical front suspension travel is 135mm on my Cali. The static rider sag is set at 40mm and the preload is wound out to 1 turn off minimum preload (4.5 turns max ). The max travel ( measured with a cable tie ) on my trip to Tauranga today ( 340km return ), over some fairly large bumps and the odd braking episode is 80mm. Would you expect under these circumstances the bike should be using closer to it's full 135mm? Any advice appreciated.
:confused:

[SS90]

Do you still have the original "bitubo" internal dampers?

In theory they are a good system, but the do have a tendency to have internal seal problems.

By that I mean, there is oil inside each of the forks (I think 80ml), but that oil is only there to lubricate the fork stauncheons and bushes.


The dampening is controlled by internal (sealed) dampers.

While sometimes, the seals on the internal dampers leak oil the oil out of the damper, I remember seeing a few examples where the oil from the stauncheons was "sucked" into the sealed damper units.

the result of this is the oil level in the damper increases, and causes the damper to "hydraulic lock" at the last few cm of travel.

On one, I was able to simply unscrew the damper unit (a simple task, some of them are just screwed together, others are crimped, and as such a throw away item) and simply remove the excess oil.

It worked, and never gave a problem again!

I would suggest seeing how much oil is in your stauncheons (I think it's 80ml, but I 'm not 100% certain on that)

[Robert Taylor]

Do you still have the original "bitubo" internal dampers?

In theory they are a good system, but the do have a tendency to have internal seal problems.

By that I mean, there is oil inside each of the forks (I think 80ml), but that oil is only there to lubricate the fork stauncheons and bushes.


The dampening is controlled by internal (sealed) dampers.

While sometimes, the seals on the internal dampers leak oil the oil out of the damper, I remember seeing a few examples where the oil from the stauncheons was "sucked" into the sealed damper units.

the result of this is the oil level in the damper increases, and causes the damper to "hydraulic lock" at the last few cm of travel.

On one, I was able to simply unscrew the damper unit (a simple task, some of them are just screwed together, others are crimped, and as such a throw away item) and simply remove the excess oil.

It worked, and never gave a problem again!

I would suggest seeing how much oil is in your stauncheons (I think it's 80ml, but I 'm not 100% certain on that)

Yes, I can 100% concur that this is very likely what is happening, the sealing system in those cartridges is indeed prone to failure ( especially also given distance travelled / age ) and will indeed suck the outer chamber oil and create hydraulic lock. There must be an internal air cavity inside them to allow for shaft displacement. This is actually quite dangerous so it needs rectifying asap. We have come up with a repair for these in the past as replacement of the units is very expensive.

[MotoKuzzi]

Thanks for the help SS90 and RT. I had a similar issue a yr ago and had work done on one cartridge, new seal and seal head from memory, perhaps the other side has gone now. I will start by draining the oil from each side into a measuring cylinder and see if there is a difference and go from there. How much oil if any should go into the damper unit itself? The manual specifies 70mls per leg of ATF but I'm sure the technician ( Gaudenz Gisler ) who did the seal repair told me he put more in than that.

[Paul in NZ]

Or - you can just bin the bloody useless things and put in some FAC's. While you are in there how about some progressive springs.

I can do mine (admittedly diff model n forks) in an afternoon.

FAC's are no better in intial ride but seem to last longer...

BTW - remember that in guzzi forks with cartidges, the oil is for lube only and a prick to put in, half it gets spilt anyway so expect some small differences.

[Robert Taylor]

Or - you can just bin the bloody useless things and put in some FAC's. While you are in there how about some progressive springs.

I can do mine (admittedly diff model n forks) in an afternoon.

FAC's are no better in intial ride but seem to last longer...

BTW - remember that in guzzi forks with cartidges, the oil is for lube only and a prick to put in, half it gets spilt anyway so expect some small differences.

The oil is also there to set the oil level or rather trapped air volume. That sets the compression ratio of the secondary air spring. That sets the progression and is far more tunable than those god awful progressive springs.

[MotoKuzzi]

The oil is also there to set the oil level or rather trapped air volume. That sets the compression ratio of the secondary air spring. That sets the progression and is far more tunable than those god awful progressive springs.

So could a larger volume of oil cause the problem I descibed?

[Robert Taylor]

So could a larger volume of oil cause the problem I descibed?

Absolutely

[MotoKuzzi]

Absolutely
It's over a yr ago but I'm fairly sure Gaudenz put way more than 70mls in. I had the forks off the bike and he measured in what he thought it should be.

[Paul in NZ]

The oil is also there to set the oil level or rather trapped air volume. That sets the compression ratio of the secondary air spring. That sets the progression and is far more tunable than those god awful progressive springs.

Funny you should say that....

I was just going to go back n edit my post. I fitted 'on sale' special price from USA - NOT local supply progressive springs and i reckon they are crap.

The original LeMans springs are shockers - much (much) lighter than the SP version designed to carry the vast barn door fairing and the LM springs collapsed so much the sustension would bottom out even with the feeble guzzi disk - NOT good...

I whacked in the SP springs with the original LM2 short ones and they were I think the best combo - I'm just too lazy to change back... I think the 2 piece spring idea Guzzi originally had with the 36mm fork was a good one - better than the prog spring one...

having said that - the prog spings in the TR6C are a definate step forwards over the sidecar one it was originally fitted with Gawd! There was more movement from the flex than anything else...

[MotoKuzzi]

I'll drain it tomorrow and check.

[Robert Taylor]

Funny you should say that....

I was just going to go back n edit my post. I fitted 'on sale' special price from USA - NOT local supply progressive springs and i reckon they are crap.

The original LeMans springs are shockers - much (much) lighter than the SP version designed to carry the vast barn door fairing and the LM springs collapsed so much the sustension would bottom out even with the feeble guzzi disk - NOT good...

I whacked in the SP springs with the original LM2 short ones and they were I think the best combo - I'm just too lazy to change back... I think the 2 piece spring idea Guzzi originally had with the 36mm fork was a good one - better than the prog spring one...

having said that - the prog spings in the TR6C are a definate step forwards over the sidecar one it was originally fitted with Gawd! There was more movement from the flex than anything else...

Yes, I worked on heaps of these in the UK and well recall the dire front ends!

[Dodgyiti]

FAC's are great improvements to the bitubo's. I love the adjustability with damping psi.
As for springs, the standard ones are pretty cheap to buy new. Tried progressive springs and concur they are not much chop, actually, plenty of chop.
My Calli did not use up all of it's long travel either. I never measured the stroke like you have, just noticed the squashed bug line was not as high up as I expected.
What kms are you at on it, if the back shock was leaking a few months ago and now the front is not performing perhaps it is time to refurbish?

[MotoKuzzi]

So far what I've established is that one damper was indeed hydraulicing? i.e not compressing as far as the other and also noticeably a fair bit of crap drained with the oil from that side. Both fork legs had about 270mm of oil in them. ( I made a note in the hand book when I refitted them last yr ). Is it possible that amount of oil is needed to overcome poor spring performance? I have a mate who is an engineer with some experience working with race car set ups, looking at the dampers for me with a view to machining the suspect damper to accept a better quality seal to match the one done last yr. Replacement all round with better quality gear would be my ideal but unfortunately my motor cycling hobby is only affordable if I can either do the work myself or keep the existing set up going with sensible affordable quality repairs. Will give an update in a few days when my mate has had a look at the dampers for me.

[doc]

why not try some SAE30W oil from a can. dribbled down the outside of the forkleg. Would look more authentic. :chase:

[MotoKuzzi]

why not try some SAE30W oil from a can. dribbled down the outside of the forkleg. Would look more authentic. :chase:

Appreciate the input:doh:

[Robert Taylor]

So far what I've established is that one damper was indeed hydraulicing? i.e not compressing as far as the other and also noticeably a fair bit of crap drained with the oil from that side. Both fork legs had about 270mm of oil in them. ( I made a note in the hand book when I refitted them last yr ). Is it possible that amount of oil is needed to overcome poor spring performance? I have a mate who is an engineer with some experience working with race car set ups, looking at the dampers for me with a view to machining the suspect damper to accept a better quality seal to match the one done last yr. Replacement all round with better quality gear would be my ideal but unfortunately my motor cycling hobby is only affordable if I can either do the work myself or keep the existing set up going with sensible affordable quality repairs. Will give an update in a few days when my mate has had a look at the dampers for me.

Yes with a bit of nous and machining you could make and instal better seal holders. My preference would be that you use viton grade ''x'' ring seals. Several years back we worked out such a fix for a Guzzi similarly afflicted and I believe it has worked out successful in the long term.

Remind me what the diameter is of the damper shafts? If its common to sizes that we use with our OPhlins stuff we may be able to supply the appropriate ''x'' rings ( which are very affordable ) and give you the precise i.d of the bore that they need to be installed into. This is critical to create just the right amount of seal tension without creating undue drag.

[Shaun]

Yes with a bit of nous and machining you could make and instal better seal holders. My preference would be that you use viton grade ''x'' ring seals. Several years back we worked out such a fix for a Guzzi similarly afflicted and I believe it has worked out successful in the long term.

Remind me what the diameter is of the damper shafts? If its common to sizes that we use with our OPhlins stuff we may be able to supply the appropriate ''x'' rings ( which are very affordable ) and give you the precise i.d of the bore that they need to be installed into. This is critical to create just the right amount of seal tension without creating undue drag.


I think his shaft size, is bigger than the one you wake up with every morning in your hand mate:shit:

[Robert Taylor]

I think his shaft size, is bigger than the one you wake up with every morning in your hand mate:shit:

Im too tired to think of a devastating comeback to that one....

[Shaun]

Im too tired to think of a devastating comeback to that one....



stop playing with ya self then, and get to bed

[MotoKuzzi]

Yes with a bit of nous and machining you could make and instal better seal holders. My preference would be that you use viton grade ''x'' ring seals. Several years back we worked out such a fix for a Guzzi similarly afflicted and I believe it has worked out successful in the long term.

Remind me what the diameter is of the damper shafts? If its common to sizes that we use with our OPhlins stuff we may be able to supply the appropriate ''x'' rings ( which are very affordable ) and give you the precise i.d of the bore that they need to be installed into. This is critical to create just the right amount of seal tension without creating undue drag.

Thanks Robert, will talk to my mate tomorrow and discuss your info with him.

[Dodgyiti]

When I said the standard springs are cheap, they are around $60 a set.
Robert's advice about using a better seal is great, because they use ATF in them, it tends to penetrate seals better (or is it worse) than normal fork oil.

[MotoKuzzi]

When I said the standard springs are cheap, they are around $60 a set.
Robert's advice about using a better seal is great, because they use ATF in them, it tends to penetrate seals better (or is it worse) than normal fork oil.

Spring price is pretty good at $60, I'll see how they go after the dampers are fixed. Any idea how much ATF per damper?

[SS90]

why not try some SAE30W oil from a can. dribbled down the outside of the forkleg. Would look more authentic. :chase:

This thread is about a 1997 Moto Guzzi California......not a Suzuki.....

[SS90]

Any idea how much ATF per damper?

Maybe Robert Tayler will be able to explain it better, but just remember that it is only a hydraulic damper.......just set the damper adjustment to full soft, fill the unit, keep plunging it until all the air is out (repeat till full, when fully compressed), and bob's your uncle..........

[Robert Taylor]

Maybe Robert Tayler will be able to explain it better, but just remember that it is only a hydraulic damper.......just set the damper adjustment to full soft, fill the unit, keep plunging it until all the air is out (repeat till full, when fully compressed), and bob's your uncle..........

No, it needs to have an internal air cavity as ( originally! 0 it is a one piece sealed unit and must have air to allow for the displacement of the shaft volume at full closed distance.
As it is a one piece non servicable unit in an ideal world it would just get replaced, to that end there is almost certainly no fill quantity as such. So you have to work out the volume of shaft inside the unit at full closed position, relative to full open and allow a further volume of air over and above that. This is trial and error unfortunately. If they were on my bench I could do it by perception of feel quite readily.

[MotoKuzzi]

No, it needs to have an internal air cavity as ( originally! 0 it is a one piece sealed unit and must have air to allow for the displacement of the shaft volume at full closed distance.
As it is a one piece non servicable unit in an ideal world it would just get replaced, to that end there is almost certainly no fill quantity as such. So you have to work out the volume of shaft inside the unit at full closed position, relative to full open and allow a further volume of air over and above that. This is trial and error unfortunately. If they were on my bench I could do it by perception of feel quite readily.

Fortunately or unfortunately events have overtaken me a bit. I never got a chance to talk to my mate about your recommendations Robert, he had already done them over the weekend. He stripped and cleaned both, the problem damper was the same one that had work done last year, Mike seemed to think something had gone amiss during re-assembly and the seal was munted. He has put in new viton? seals both sides and used the oil volume retained on the good side as a guide to how much to add. The damper bores are apparently both in good cond. He was able to test them in a spring rate machine and both now fully compress and measure to within a pound of pressure difference at full compression. Fitted them to the bike tonight and after a couple of pumps they started to rebound positively and smoothly. Rider sag was easily adjustable and I have it set at 45mm at present. Travel under braking ( hand push ) in the garage has increased to 110mm which is 81% of full. Haven't road tested it yet but will tomorrow. I have put the owner manual recommended 70mls of ATF in the fork legs but wonder If I should increase this as the last person to work on them put 270mls in. Will I gain anything from doing this? Given the difficulties of removing the bars to get at the caps to add oil, I would probably be better to add the full 270 and control drain away any excess through the lower bung if needed. Thanks for your help so far it's been an interesting learning curve.
Cheers,
Mark.

[Robert Taylor]

Fortunately or unfortunately events have overtaken me a bit. I never got a chance to talk to my mate about your recommendations Robert, he had already done them over the weekend. He stripped and cleaned both, the problem damper was the same one that had work done last year, Mike seemed to think something had gone amiss during re-assembly and the seal was munted. He has put in new viton? seals both sides and used the oil volume retained on the good side as a guide to how much to add. The damper bores are apparently both in good cond. He was able to test them in a spring rate machine and both now fully compress and measure to within a pound of pressure difference at full compression. Fitted them to the bike tonight and after a couple of pumps they started to rebound positively and smoothly. Rider sag was easily adjustable and I have it set at 45mm at present. Travel under braking ( hand push ) in the garage has increased to 110mm which is 81% of full. Haven't road tested it yet but will tomorrow. I have put the owner manual recommended 70mls of ATF in the fork legs but wonder If I should increase this as the last person to work on them put 270mls in. Will I gain anything from doing this? Given the difficulties of removing the bars to get at the caps to add oil, I would probably be better to add the full 270 and control drain away any excess through the lower bung if needed. Thanks for your help so far it's been an interesting learning curve.
Cheers,
Mark.

Theres a HUGE difference in resultant trapped air volume between 70mls and 270mls! And therefore secondary air spring compression ratio. If the manual states 70mls do that. If it bottoms add 5mls at a time through the top with syringes until it just precludes bottom out. That may be a pain but does more accurately ensure that the oil levels are the same side to side!

[MotoKuzzi]

Theres a HUGE difference in resultant trapped air volume between 70mls and 270mls! And therefore secondary air spring compression ratio. If the manual states 70mls do that. If it bottoms add 5mls at a time through the top with syringes until it just precludes bottom out. That may be a pain but does more accurately ensure that the oil levels are the same side to side!

Under full braking at low speed ( 30kph or less) it feels as though it momentarily bottoms, but travel only measures 110mm vs 135mm full. Could this be to do with the transition from the softer spring to the stronger one? Although its a reasonably solid feel to it when it happens.

[Robert Taylor]

Under full braking at low speed ( 30kph or less) it feels as though it momentarily bottoms, but travel only measures 110mm vs 135mm full. Could this be to do with the transition from the softer spring to the stronger one? Although its a reasonably solid feel to it when it happens.

Possibly yes but Id really need to see the stripped assembly to reply more accurately.

[MotoKuzzi]

Possibly yes but Id really need to see the stripped assembly to reply more accurately.

On each damper rod there are 2 springs separated by a collar, the lower one is shorter and closer wound than the upper.

[Robert Taylor]

On each damper rod there are 2 springs separated by a collar, the lower one is shorter and closer wound than the upper.

If there is a big disparity between the two spring rates you will indeed likely feel when the first spring reaches max closed distance and it ''kicks'' onto the heavier springs. But like I intimated a little difficult to comment accurately sight unseen.

[coreys]

The best person to talk to about this is Kerry Duckie of Dukic Performance.
If fred merkal reccomends this guy he cant be all bad

[MotoKuzzi]

Thanks thats all sorted. Moved onto new issues now like munted drive shaft and pinion splines... oh well giving me something to do on a sunday afternoon. Now back to that bikini thread although I'm sure i've seen some of them twice or more now.

[Robert Taylor]

The best person to talk to about this is Kerry Duckie of Dukic Performance.
If fred merkal reccomends this guy he cant be all bad

You know, prudence suggests I should bite my tongue but one thing I really detest is total and brazen BS. I have been told by the said expert that he can do 67 second lap times around Manfield but it is totally unsubstantiated. If he can prove that under controlled circumstances and timed observation then myself and many others may begin to believe the tall yarns that are monotonously spun.
It is a reasonable expectation that considered experts in their field are straight up no nonsense guys devoid of BS.

[MotoKuzzi]

You know, prudence suggests I should bite my tongue but one thing I really detest is total and brazen BS. I have been told by the said expert that he can do 67 second lap times around Manfield but it is totally unsubstantiated. If he can prove that under controlled circumstances and timed observation then myself and many others may begin to believe the tall yarns that are monotonously spun.
It is a reasonable expectation that considered experts in their field are straight up no nonsense guys devoid of BS.

Thanks Robert, I have a reasonable built in BS detector, it's a must in my line of work, good to know it's still working.

[Pussy]

You know, prudence suggests I should bite my tongue but one thing I really detest is total and brazen BS. I have been told by the said expert that he can do 67 second lap times around Manfield but it is totally unsubstantiated. If he can prove that under controlled circumstances and timed observation then myself and many others may begin to believe the tall yarns that are monotonously spun.
It is a reasonable expectation that considered experts in their field are straight up no nonsense guys devoid of BS.

I'd like to see his Pilot logbook with the F-4, P-51, F4-U etc etc, NOT forgetting agricultural ops in a DC3.. entries in it.
67 second laps? Next NZ superbike champ!

[SlideMoto]

The best person to talk to about this is Kerry Duckie of Dukic Performance.
If fred merkal reccomends this guy he cant be all bad
"Maaaate, did I tell ya about me XT550 mate? 160 kay on it, into the path of a VW Beetle mate, hoisted the front wheel and cleared the car off the bonet. Shit I'm goooood"

[SlideMoto]

"Maaaate, did I tell ya about me XT550 mate? 160 kay on it, into the path of a VW Beetle mate, hoisted the front wheel and cleared the car off the bonet. Shit I'm goooood"
Oh shit, I forgot another good one.

"On me Buell X1 Lightning mate, just rebuilt after smashing the cases with a rod, heading up the 'Taka's, boy di the guy on the Fireblad get a shock when I wheelied around the outside of him with my knee down"

Ummmm, heard of a little thing called physics arsehole? Yeah, you can work on my bike anyday.......

[Pussy]

Oh shit, I forgot another good one.

"On me Buell X1 Lightning mate, just rebuilt after smashing the cases with a rod, heading up the 'Taka's, boy di the guy on the Fireblad get a shock when I wheelied around the outside of him with my knee down"



Pfffft! That's all light weight shit compared to his daring and skillful aviation exploits....
He even flew covert missions in Afghanistan, apparently.... :rolleyes:

[gatch]

Pfffft! That's all light weight shit compared to his daring and skillful aviation exploits....
He even flew covert missions in Afghanistan, apparently.... :rolleyes:

He loves his acid it would seem..

[coreys]

what do you ride Robert?

[Robert Taylor]

what do you ride Robert?

Many road bikes that we modify. Many years ago I had a succession of road bikes. I never fooled myself as being anything other than a very competent and safe rider. My interest now is purely technical and you dont have to be an everyday rider to achieve excellent results. Just ask Stroudy, Bugden, Shirriifs, Harris, Skatchill and a whole host of everyday road riders.
Straight up, no BS and fantastic stories.

[coreys]

Thanks for the reply Robert. i was not trying to be fasicious. i was interested in what bikes you currently owned. nothing wrong with being an ex rider.

I am wondering why you wrote
"You know, prudence suggests I should bite my tongue but one thing I really detest is total and brazen BS" when i metioned Dukic performance?

The original thread was from a guzzi rider ( i ride a guzzi) and Kerry did some excellent work on setting up my bike, and took time out to improve my riding

From what i hear you are the "Dr" on suspension, yet your comments seem to be very bitter?

Have i missed something?

[Robert Taylor]

Thanks for the reply Robert. i was not trying to be fasicious. i was interested in what bikes you currently owned. nothing wrong with being an ex rider.

I am wondering why you wrote
"You know, prudence suggests I should bite my tongue but one thing I really detest is total and brazen BS" when i metioned Dukic performance?

The original thread was from a guzzi rider ( i ride a guzzi) and Kerry did some excellent work on setting up my bike, and took time out to improve my riding

From what i hear you are the "Dr" on suspension, yet your comments seem to be very bitter?

Have i missed something?

Lets just say that when you impart a lot of knowledge to people you expect that they will work with you and not against you, that they will also purchase the relevant goods from you. Enough said.

[coreys]

not if your gouging them i wouldnt.

[Robert Taylor]

not if your gouging them i wouldnt.

Dont get me started on the dodgy work that I have come across.

[coreys]

When i first posted this...

Originally Posted by coreys
The best person to talk to about this is Kerry Duckie of Dukic Performance.
If fred merkal reccomends this guy he cant be all bad

your reply was this...
Originally Posted by Robert Taylor
You know, prudence suggests I should bite my tongue but one thing I really detest is total and brazen BS

On page 84 of the latest Bike Rider mag that WolfPack racing use Dukic Performance for all their suspension work. AND GUESS WHO THE TEAM MANAGER IS?

2 times world superbike champ Fred Merkel.

based on your intail responce you are either saying that Fred Merkel doesnt know anything about suspension (because he chose Dukic Performance) or your orginal comments were driven by a self serving attitude to your competition. Which is it?

PS in the same magazine you are known as Dr. what did you get your Doctorate in?

[Pussy]

The best person to talk to about this is Kerry Duckie of Dukic Performance.


You had much to do with this guy?
I have.... he's told me many absolute BULLSHIT stories.

I think that's where the "BS" reference comes from

[coreys]

thats between you and him. The BS refered to my comments about Kerry being reccomended' by Fred Merkel. Which "dr" Rob said was BS.
This is clearly not true, in fact the BS seems to be one way, all coming from a so called Dr.
lets see if he is man enough to respond to my orginal questions.

[White trash]

"Maaaate, did I tell ya about me XT550 mate? 160 kay on it, into the path of a VW Beetle mate, hoisted the front wheel and cleared the car off the bonet. Shit I'm goooood"


Oh shit, I forgot another good one.

"On me Buell X1 Lightning mate, just rebuilt after smashing the cases with a rod, heading up the 'Taka's, boy di the guy on the Fireblad get a shock when I wheelied around the outside of him with my knee down"

Ummmm, heard of a little thing called physics arsehole? Yeah, you can work on my bike anyday.......


Pfffft! That's all light weight shit compared to his daring and skillful aviation exploits....
He even flew covert missions in Afghanistan, apparently.... :rolleyes:


The original thread was from a guzzi rider ( i ride a guzzi) and Kerry did some excellent work on setting up my bike, and took time out to improve my riding

Hmmmm, with skills like that I'm suprised he hasn't taken time out to improve Valentinos riding too.

[coreys]

yeah i heard about some dodgy work done on $70,000 Ducati....I wonder who did that?

[Pussy]

yeah i heard about some dodgy work done on $70,000 Ducati....I wonder who did that?

Do tell!
Just be VERY careful around pathological liars.

[coreys]

discussion overheard at a local bike shop. If you want more details i suggest you ask your cult leader

[Pussy]

discussion overheard at a local bike shop. If you want more details i suggest you ask your cult leader

I don't have a cult leader (Terry McCashin rocks, though :))
I'd be keen to know the details

[White trash]

What about the discussions overheard in any physics book. I find them to be pretty interesting and the cult leader doesn't need to confirm them either way.

[coreys]

i find it amusing that when a genuine question is asked, the 'dr' is nowhere to be seen

[Robert Taylor]

i find it amusing that when a genuine question is asked, the 'dr' is nowhere to be seen

Are we talking about the same F Merkel who uses the same guy? Are we also talking about a load of guys who have been burning up a certain brand of tyre for months on end and it has got back to the tyre distributor? And that the said distributor had worked out a common denominator before even calling me.
Funny how being rather busy is taken as being nowhere to be seen.
No blame is apportioned to anyone over a said motorcycle aside from the internet company who sold these parts, misrepresenting that they were exactly the same as the previous model. And it not being immediately obvious, that being the danger of purchasing from such companies. I checked.
If you are going to throw stones I sincerely hopeyou dont live in a glass house. Not that I know where it is given your convenient anonymity.

[White trash]

Not that I know where it is given your convenient anonymity.

Fuck you're dumb. It's Dukies boyfriend, thought you could have worked that out by now.

[coreys]

you still havent answered the Questions Rob.
When i originaly posted the Fred M used Dukic performance, you said it was blatant BS.

This is quite obviously not the case

So i will repeat

based on your intail responce you are either saying that Fred Merkel doesnt know anything about suspension (because he chose Dukic Performance) or your orginal comments were driven by a self serving attitude to your competition. Which is it?

In the same magazine you refer to yourself as Dr. what did you get your Doctorate in?

I wonder, if no blame was apportioned do you still do work on that particular motorbike?

PS no anonimty here, i will be more then happy to email you my contact details if you so like

[coreys]

Fuck you're dumb. It's Dukies boyfriend, thought you could have worked that out by now.
thats actually quite funny, nice to have smile on a tuesday

[Robert Taylor]

you still havent answered the Questions Rob.
When i originaly posted the Fred M used Dukic performance, you said it was blatant BS.

This is quite obviously not the case

So i will repeat

based on your intail responce you are either saying that Fred Merkel doesnt know anything about suspension (because he chose Dukic Performance) or your orginal comments were driven by a self serving attitude to your competition. Which is it?

In the same magazine you refer to yourself as Dr. what did you get your Doctorate in?

I wonder, if no blame was apportioned do you still do work on that particular motorbike?

PS no anonimty here, i will be more then happy to email you my contact details if you so like

You clearly misunderstand and twisting the conversation by misrepresenting context to suit your own ends is very clear.
Dr is a nickname that has stuck, not of my choice. Trivial point.
We have an excellent reputation with very little comeback, FACT. If we are indeed actually informed of an issue we put it right, simple. And point of fact we spend a LOT of time putting other peoples work to rights.
If you are man enough you could post your full name and contact details on this site. I.e no selective anonymoty.

[Robert Taylor]

Hey Jimmy, earplugs optional but well advised. Not enough time to listen to Ive done this, Ive done that, Ive made these and Ive sold 1000 already etc etc ad infinitum. FIGJAM.

[coreys]

You clearly misunderstand and twisting the conversation by misrepresenting context to suit your own ends is very clear.
Dr is a nickname that has stuck, not of my choice. Trivial point.
We have an excellent reputation with very little comeback, FACT. If we are indeed actually informed of an issue we put it right, simple. And point of fact we spend a LOT of time putting other peoples work to rights.
If you are man enough you could post your full name and contact details on this site. I.e no selective anonymoty.


this has been done

[Robert Taylor]

this has been done

Seen it, thanks.

[pritch]

Just read this thread. A tad depressing in the latter stages but two thoughts come mind:

Rossi has the nickname "The Doctor", I don't know whether he gave it to himself or if it was conferred by others. It doesn't matter anyway because now he is one.

And

Two degrees in bebop
A PhD in swing
He's a Master of Rhythm
He's a rock n roll king

The Rock n Roll Doctor - Little Feat