Welfare to work for the young people

[Slicksta]

Thoughts do you think this will work are you happy with your tax payers money being spent on this?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/2713008/Dole-out-training-in-for-unemployed-youth

[Mully]

Well, we have to do something to change the NZ mindset of welfare being an acceptable "career" for people. This could help.

If there's no real reason for people not to work or train, I don't see why they should get to claim welfare money to sit on their arses.

I like the idea of this:


$5.3m to encourage developers of cycleway projects to hire 500 young people;

I think that's trying to acknowledge that formal schooling/training isn't for everyone, and should give these kids a chance to pick up a trade (or at least get an idea of a trade they may like to do)

And out of a multi-Billion dollar welfare budget, chucking 150-odd million to try to prevent people bludging for a lifetime has to be worth a try.

[DMNTD]

...to try to prevent people bludging for a lifetime has to be worth a try.

100% agreed

[peasea]

Thoughts do you think this will work are you happy with your tax payers money being spent on this?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/2713008/Dole-out-training-in-for-unemployed-youth

Short answer? Yes.

It's a drop in the bucket really and it looks like a step in a positive direction. If it was shown to work (and I don't see why it won't) then it's money well spent, the bludging mindset could be reversed and I would have no objection to more being spent on such initiatives.

We need to get people off their arses.

[davereid]

There is a lot of wailing in the house about "how are we going to pay the old age pension... put the age up to 75".

Mr. English appears to have noticed that the N.Z. super costs about the same as the dole.

And that letting a 65 year old retire is a great idea if it helps a 17 year old into the workforce.

The 65 year old won't go out and steal cars, write his name on fences and bridges, and do donuts in his car outside the poilce station.

At least most of them wont.

[p.dath]

I'm keen for the government to give it a try and then review it at the end of the year. The amount of money is relatively small, and the possible benefits are huge (although unfortunately many years away from realisation).

[wbks]

Only people physically unable to work should get any handouts

[crazyhorse]

Not sure if this is going to work - It might disadvantage other people trying to get work.

In hind sight it is a great idea. The younger generation are struggling to get work so if it helps, all the better

[Finn]

Only people physically unable to work should get any handouts

But this has to be certified by an authorised (and accountable) doctor approved by the state. In other words, no doctors with bones through their noses.

[James Deuce]

There is a lot of wailing in the house about "how are we going to pay the old age pension... put the age up to 75".

Mr. English appears to have noticed that the N.Z. super costs about the same as the dole.

And that letting a 65 year old retire is a great idea if it helps a 17 year old into the workforce.

The 65 year old won't go out and steal cars, write his name on fences and bridges, and do donuts in his car outside the poilce station.

At least most of them wont.

Sod off.

That's my retirement plan Dave.

I also intend to use my spare time post retirement to finally nail 12 O'Clock wheelies.

[Str8 Jacket]

Only people physically unable to work should get any handouts

When I was 15 yrs of age I had no choice but to go on the then called 'independant youth benefit'. I was flatting and studying for my school cert. After I paid my rent and bus fares to school I had $20 a week left over so I got a part time job just so that I could afford food. I had to leave school when they started sending the debt collectors round at the beggining of 7th form and I could not afford to pay my school fees. When I left school my benefit ended and the $40 odd a week I earned was supposed to support me. Little wonder I could have ended up in a bad way and did 'live rough' for a few months but I was lucky that back then they had a thing called apprenticeships and somehow one just found me... I thank that apprenticeship for the work ethic and attitude I have now.

I do agree with what JK is trying to achieve here, I just hope that no one is overlooked. Life is pretty hard when you are trying to make something of yourself and there's no one there to help!

[wickle]

Not sure if this is going to work - It might disadvantage other people trying to get work.

In hind sight it is a great idea. The younger generation are struggling to get work so if it helps, all the better
Thou not all of them, we generally have found a high % of the generation have no work effecate and are so unreliable( oh there's a party tonite I'll ring in sick) we very rarely take them on, personally apon leaving school one year national service would do them better than sponsered jobs and most probably cost much the same.

[JMemonic]

They tried similar in the 80's it was a great idea but badly implemented.

You could get hired for 90 days and dismissed with no recourse on the employer, who received a subsidy for your wages had you been unemployed for longer than 6 moths, in some cases this was equal to your wages sometimes more depending on how long unemployed.

There were known employers who would request that you had been unemployed for the minimum 6 month before they would hire a person, then dismiss you after 90 days, return to the labour dept as it was then and hire another person, again on a subsidy, meanwhile having been employed for 90 days your ability to offer a genuine employer the subsidy was gone for at least another 6 months.

I hope they implement this a little better, otherwise its a good idea.

[ManDownUnder]

I think it's great.

The state pays for training anyway - might as well encourage people to take it up.

And by state paid training I refer to examples such as:
Our schooling system - mostly paid for by the state
University fees - mostly paid for by the state
Armed forces training
Police training

I see this an as extension of that which is akin to the old apprenticeship system, which I personally support as well.

Sitting on your arse to get money should not be an option. Having babies to get money should not be an option.

[Subike]

OMG yet another employment sceme for the young unemployed.
We seam to have one of these appear with every new government.
The "sure to end the problem" is here again to rip off the system.
PEP scemes in the 80's made millions for groups such as the Mongrel Mob, High Way 61, BlackPower, who all started up training business for the unemployed, and employed their own men.
Then we had the training workshops of the 90's, again groups got hold of this funding and set up workshops to train kids, The workshops still exist in many places, but no kids being trained in them.Nice to have a free gov funded workshop to make your money from from.
So yet again we are going to have Govt funded work groups to train the unemployed youth. I am sure there again will be some cons in amoungst the good stuff.
I am for it you, but there will be ripoffs in the system, kiwis just cant help themselves from accessing free handouts anyway they can.

[rainman]

Only people physically unable to work should get any handouts

Serious question: what do you think would happen to those unable to find work?

I'm strongly in favour of getting people off benefits and into work: it's more fulfilling for the people affected and generally better for the national mental health. However, the issue is a bit more complex, I think, than people here often recognise.

Sure, some people are playing the system for all it's worth (no, not talking about Bill English and Sir Rog). Others are clearly incapable of working: either through physical or mental disability. Given the statement above, I'm guessing you think they're OK to receive benefits: there's probably only a very a small number of people here who think that we should just shoot the weak and infirm. But there's a whole bunch of shades of grey between "clearly OK" and "clearly taking the piss".

One example: What do you do for the good solid hardworking family man (or woman) in some little rural town who's worked all their life for the local manufacturing company - until they go bust/relocate to China...? There is likely no other job to go to, they have deep connections to the area, limited financial reserves (consequence of a low wage economy), maybe kids and other family members to look after. We either pay them a benefit, or deal with whatever desperation drives them to: drugs, crime, suicide, other bad social outcomes.

The welfare state is a consequence of capitalism as it's currently constructed.


And out of a multi-Billion dollar welfare budget, chucking 150-odd million to try to prevent people bludging for a lifetime has to be worth a try.

Thought we were talking about youth, not MPs? (Sorry, too easy...)

[p.dath]

I think in that case you need to shift to where there is work.

Otherwise people will shift to nice places where there is no work so they never have to.

[Subike]

I think in that case you need to shift to where there is work.

Otherwise people will shift to nice places where there is no work so they never have to.

That problem has been delt with inside the Work & Income rules.
There are many places around NZ where you cannot move to if on a benifit as they are known non employment enviroments. So I you want to do what you are suggesting p.path, expect the Income Suport people to say NO to you being on a benifit.
This has been in effect for a number of years already

[p.dath]

That problem has been delt with inside the Work & Income rules.
There are many places around NZ where you cannot move to if on a benifit as they are known non employment enviroments. So I you want to do what you are suggesting p.path, expect the Income Suport people to say NO to you being on a benifit.
This has been in effect for a number of years already

In that case, a big thumbs up to WINZ!

[Ocean1]

Mr. English appears to have noticed that the N.Z. super costs about the same as the dole.

He's not the only one, if they won't fund me dotage when it's due I'll be having a major employment issue...


I also intend to use my spare time post retirement to finally nail 12 O'Clock wheelies.

Fuck that, it already hurts.


Serious question: what do you think would happen to those unable to find work?

They can eat dirt sandwiches same as I had to.



Can’t find work, forsooth…

[Ixion]

Serious question: what do you think would happen to those unable to find work?

I'm strongly in favour of getting people off benefits and into work: it's more fulfilling for the people affected and generally better for the national mental health. However, the issue is a bit more complex, I think, than people here often recognise.

Sure, some people are playing the system for all it's worth (no, not talking about Bill English and Sir Rog). Others are clearly incapable of working: either through physical or mental disability. Given the statement above, I'm guessing you think they're OK to receive benefits: there's probably only a very a small number of people here who think that we should just shoot the weak and infirm. But there's a whole bunch of shades of grey between "clearly OK" and "clearly taking the piss".

One example: What do you do for the good solid hardworking family man (or woman) in some little rural town who's worked all their life for the local manufacturing company - until they go bust/relocate to China...? There is likely no other job to go to, they have deep connections to the area, limited financial reserves (consequence of a low wage economy), maybe kids and other family members to look after. We either pay them a benefit, or deal with whatever desperation drives them to: drugs, crime, suicide, other bad social outcomes.

The welfare state is a consequence of capitalism as it's currently constructed.



Very true. And a moment's reflection will siuggest the obvious solution.

Eliminate capitalism. Then everyone has a job available, suited to their abilities. No benefits. Those that won't put in an honest days work (again, according to the abilities - which in some cases may be very slight : the word is won't not can't) , get sent to a reeducation camp. Where they *will* work. Very very hard.

Sorted.

[p.dath]

Ahh, so we should become a new province of China then?

[Ixion]

China is hardly a Communist state nowadays. If it ever was.

[Pedrostt500]

I'm all for giving a kid a fair break, yep there are going to be some arsehole employers abuse this, and on the other side of the coin some kids will just make themselves unemployable.
We had one young guy working for us up untill a little while ago, nice enough kid, but just would not follow instructions, regardless how simple we broke the tasks down for him, exsplain how you wanted some thing done and you could see what you told him going in one ear and straight out the other, this wasn't a case of a kid being a slow learner, this was a non learner, & once all the trades men in the company start refusing to work with a kid, then its all down hill for that kid.
Training schems are worth while, but you need to sort the weat from the charf.

[James Deuce]

China is hardly a Communist state nowadays. If it ever was.
Mao and his short term legacy are merely an interregnum between dynasties.